Combat Logs are coming! Damage meters & analysis soon to follow!

[Vealage]

I was really never in the camp that cared much about these things. But then again, I have never been a hardcore themepark player either...

 

Admittedly, I do use them when questing just to check when I use a new spec or something of that nature.

 

It'll be nice to have them, but I wasn't missing anything without them being there.

[noaaa]

we definitly need combat logs + dmg meters...

 

There cant be professionality in Raids without it

[OZGOD]

Joy another thread. Well since its new ill just put in my vote once more. Above is basically my view on it and something that has been constantly dismissed by those for it. Probably the very same ******** that get a kick out of destroying the community. Players have been already clearing raids without its use or dependency on any form of meter what so ever ... and the community is better for it. It is PROVEN to not be needed.

 

You know your on to something when the best that can be said for it are ad hom arguments ("youre just a bad, that doesnt want to be seen, herp derp") trying to further dismiss the adverse effects this has on the games community.

 

Hopefully they stick to their guns, on the more recent quote by Georg and only make it a personal log so players can only look at their own DPS to better their own toon if they need to. Public logs are only even remotely useful (not needed) for enrage bosses ... and I certainly do not think its worth knocking the community down another level for a tiny convenience thats only applicable to a tiny percentage of bosses in the entire game.

 

Kind of like playing a football/basketball/insert sport here game only by recording the final score eh. Don't know how many incomplete passes Brady threw, don't know whether to play Welker or Ochocinco.

 

Of course, if you're playing a pickup game after school or work, then it really doesn't matter who scored, or for that matter what the final score even is.

Edited January 16, 2012 by OZGOD

[thedirge]

I'm not opposed to a combat log, but I would really prefer to see TOR stick with the classic RPG design and shy away from UI mods.

[twogirlsoneup]

I like how being willfully ignorant of game mechanics is somehow considered a virtue...

 

In every guild I've been in we had a name for players that put in no effort in improving their performance before a raid: substitutes.

 

Your right to drool at your lighsaber ends when you accept a group invite. If you can't be bothered to subject yourself to metrics, don't bother vying for endgame group content.

[ironix]

Joy another thread. Well since its new ill just put in my vote once more. Above is basically my view on it and something that has been constantly dismissed by those for it. Probably the very same ******** that get a kick out of destroying the community. Players have been already clearing raids without its use or dependency on any form of meter what so ever ... and the community is better for it. It is PROVEN to not be needed.

 

This actually isn't another new thread. I posted this nearly a month ago on December 21st. Someone must have necro'd it, as obviously the front page needed more of these...

[ironix]

Cool, OP you and all the other kiddies that need that sort of thing to win can have it. Me and my guildies will still do it the real way, through superior gameplay and experience.

 

Dont get me wrong, I've used them to gauge damage and such to check for bugs and inconsitincies in abilities, but never would I use them as George Z. or people like you suggest.

 

No parser can track a player's worth and ability. Such tools are shallow and ruin good communities and should only be usable for solo play.

 

You make the mistaken assumption that raid leaders, which I have been in the past, do not take everything into account when analyzing logs. You do realize that any raid leader worth his salt actually helps foster communities and friendships, not break them. At least in my book anyhow.

 

As for the 'must be world/server first' type of raid leader, well... Those environments can be a bit more cutthroat and I generally try to avoid raids that are lead in this style.

[Tonttulakki]

Your right to drool at your lighsaber ends when you accept a group invite. If you can't be bothered to subject yourself to metrics, don't bother vying for endgame group content.

 

wow thats some true elitism right there

so some people shoudnt expect endgame content just because they arent hardcore enough

[ironix]

wow thats some true elitism right there

so some people shoudnt expect endgame content just because they arent hardcore enough

 

Not everyone who wants access to these metrics come off like this fellow. Please don't judge us all based on the actions some ill-tempered individuals.

 

EDIT: With reference to the person you were replying to.

Edited January 16, 2012 by ironix

[WhiskyJax]

Damage meters force cookie cutter builds which force players to conform for be ignored and further turns the game into a glorified Xbox zerg.

[Snowred]

we definitly need combat logs + dmg meters...

 

There cant be professionality in Raids without it

 

Professional..... LOL!! This is a game.... elitist attitudes much... and one of the many reasons why games are better off without dps meters.. personal log parsers are useful yes but anything that allows one player to point the finger at another or makes raiders/pvp'ers too worried about being top of the meter to do their job is bad.

[Voidence]

Because people don't like to be reminded that they're only succeeding on the hard work of others?

 

No because most players use it as a E-peen measuring stick.

Tradewind I know of you from *that other game* on the Winterhoof server, I hope you understand that this WILL turn into a E-peen stroking contest, And that is something alot of us casuals did not wanna see, However if its what BW wants and thinks the majority of the playerbase wants then so be it.

 

 

P.S. If you think there is alot of drama on these forums now, Wait till the E-peen stroking starts

Edited January 16, 2012 by Voidence

[Tekkoclarky]

Combat logs are a must, when myself or someone dies and we're not sure why, I like to check to find out.

 

Damage meters are needed if you hit enrage timers.

 

I know there is a number of people who just look solely at DPS and think they are gods gift if they can pull off good numbers.

 

But there is many of us who look at every stat in the game. WoL for that game wow, is an amazing tool, I hope we have the same kind of tool at some point with SWTOR.

 

Recount is not just a damage meter, it shows many many more stats which a lot of us find interesting, it helps improve your gameplay and lets you help others.

 

Ignore those *****s who take it to the wrong level and don't group with them.

Edited January 16, 2012 by Tekkoclarky

[ironix]

Damage meters force cookie cutter builds which force players to conform for be ignored and further turns the game into a glorified Xbox zerg.

 

Unfortunately cookie cutter builds already exist. The analysis has been done for the most part in that department. If you look at any of the class forums, you will likely find a how-to <insert class> thread with optimal builds.

 

The inclusion or lack of damage meters would have never impacted the inevitability of cookie-cutter builds.

[Mercia]

People need to realise what they are capable of and if that means i have to say to one of my members hey pal raiding is just not for you is it then god dammit i will

 

I would like to have the option to KNOW whos a bad player or not and last time i checked we currently have 0 way of finding this out

 

Damage meters are not the be all and end all but in the right hands help many raid guilds be successful

 

Ask any half decent raid team and they will ALL have meters or some way to find out what Healers/dps/interupts/dispellers are doing

 

Its way to easy to just got err yes i definatly interupted when i should when there is no way to prove/disprove

[Voidence]

You guys hating at dps meters, wake up! Are u against grades in school too? Against education? U think everybody should play with the best guys even thought they bring nothing to the team, or work as whatever they want cause its fun? Everyone isnt meant to do everything cuz its fun.

 

Today its impossible to see whos dealing dmg and whos not. And almost all raid bosses and some HM bosses have enrage timers too. So should we just stick with whoever we find since we cant possible know who sucks and who dont.

 

DPS meter ARE needed, not to kick and flame other people, but to find out if someone is good enough to even do his work in a raid/dungeon.

 

Funny you mention fun.... Yes people should do those things because its FUN. After all this is a GAME.

 

Just saying

[twogirlsoneup]

wow thats some true elitism right there

so some people shoudnt expect endgame content just because they arent hardcore enough

 

It's not about being hardcore, it's about respecting the time commitment of the people around you. How is that so hard to understand?

 

It is elitist to unanimously declare yourself above reproach, and demand that other players conform to your demands vis-a-vis having fun vs. actually helping.

[Voidence]

so youve only heard of fail guilds then. Any guild worth half their spit will have requirements for voicechat, raid alerts, dps meters. These are all basic things in engame raids and no serious raid guild would hinder themselves by not using it.

 

Theres only 2 reasons not to use the best tools available to you:

 

1. being a baddie. If your a baddie and you know it, you want to hide your numbers. I think this is the main reason most of you haters dont want combat logs so you can let others do the work for you.

 

2 lazyness. it pretty much falls into number 1 but i have met a few good players who were just to lazy to install addons, however their game would have been much improved with them.

 

Ok since you wanna throw around insults, Here is one, you are not a elite, you are no where near elite. The real elite players dont really come to the forums, they dont ***** and whine, they dont call casuals baddies, they stick to themselves(for the most part) and down content.

 

You? You are a E-peen stroker, someone who thinks because he might be better then a few people in a game you have won. When really all you won was being *ok* at a video game. Congrats, make sure you tell your kids how super awsome daddy thought he was at a video game.

[Dethtoki]

I agree that it will help in the end, but also hurt in the end. WE are all part of an MMO, yet this tool will eventually be misused by those that will apply it only for exclusion and not for education, which has been stated by those that argue the need for it. To explain, PUGs will just kick someone for not being as useful as they could be without any discussion on what could be done differently. At first glance, I would agree, yet not all people will know how to fix this issue (the ones being "carried").

 

Here are the two exceptions to this :

1. You have joined a raid group and doing so means that you will do all that you can to help that group. You will need learn from your mistakes and will also apply the information to "min/max" your character. You may not use the tool yourself, but you should use the information given to better help the group you voluntarily joined to help.

 

2. Those that will disregard any information as being an intrusion on their style of play regardless of how it affects those they have chosen to play with.

 

 

In the second example, you need to understand that you are part of a group and need to help you and the others complete whatever it is you started. If you ask for this help that the tool gave information on, that is acceptable and commendable. Not all of us are veterans of using this information, and need help from those of us that are.

 

If you refuse this and expect to play any way that you want, that is fine. I agree with your "right" to do so, but don't expect others to cover for your stubbornness and pull you through everything. Without a cross server PUG tool, you will shortly get a reputation for this and will eventually be excluded from things. I don't think that all that I group with to be "pros", but I do think that all should be able to be willing to accept constructive information that may be of use to them. Not all suggestions will be correct, but information is never a bad thing. Either good or bad, it is useful.

 

For those that think that anyone in a PUG should know how to play the way you think they should play, think about what you are saying because not everyone will use this tool, but still may want to know what they are doing may be affecting the successful completion of a mission.

 

Yes, those that don't want to use it and state that they will take no suggestions from those that do may need to be excluded from the group. But those that don't use it and accept information and applies it should be applauded, they may end up realizing that the tool is something they should start using. Not all will turn into pros/endgame raiders....but they will be useful to a PUG.

 

To those that will take the tool and become one themselves, I think that you need to realize you are playing an MMO as well and not everyone should be as pro as you. Be helpful, use it to help those that are willing to accept it. If you don't get through something as quickly as you would have liked (in a PUG) yet you didn't die be happy that you got through it.

 

If you aren't getting through it as fast as you would like, maybe you don't need to ruin it for them, maybe you need to be the better person and leave yourself. There will always be another group, either that day or the next day that you are able to play. In leaving the group you may help the rest of the group realize you had some good advice/information after they have to disband due to not being able to get through the content.

 

In conclusion, use it if you want to, don't if you think it is a crutch. Don't be surprised when it is misused and on the other side of the coin, don't be surprised if you get some advice about something you may need to look into. Without it you may be fine, with it you may get better. Either way, it is a tool.....like a wrench. Without it you can tighten a bolt/nut, with it you can tighten it so that you don't have to go back constantly to adjust it as it loosens. Just don't use it as a hammer.

[Beurn]

Meters are needed, its a basic PvE tool, how is the raiding supposed to be developed in the future without any performane measurement tools?

 

PvE won't work without it, trust me. Sooner or later.

[OZGOD]

I really don't understand why people would be against these meters/measures. After all the player is in full control of what the output of the meter displays. It's simply one of but not the only measures of the player's output.

[Crago_Flynn]

We plan on running raids at 50. We plan on handing out loot after these raids. I do not see a way to fairly divide this loot without a combat log to tell who is doing what.

 

This is not about measuring to see who has the most HPS or DPS. Our guild is not about that. However, we do need to be able to see 1. who showed up to a raid and whether or not they remained for the entire raid. and 2. What they were doing during the raid.

 

For those who say "it's only 8 people", this includes standbys, folks who stand by in case of a power outage or ISP failure, cat knocked over my beer stuff that happens randomly.

 

Not only this, but it's good to be able to SEE something after it's occurred, as opposed to having your eyes glued to the screen trying to catch it. This is a good thing. People who think that it will affect them adversely in the major, it probably won't.

Edited January 19, 2012 by Crago_Flynn

[Innocentone]

Honestly, swtor doesn't need meters that would only add unwanted drama to the game. I bring my A Game anytime that I run an instance. I just don't like seeing how some make others feel like crap when we all pay a monthly fee to enjoy this game. Just like how in the recent video update with James Ohlen . I like the UI stuff. But James if your reading this we don't need dps meters . The game is already awesome without them. Don't let the elitist plant the seed of drama within swtor. It will only fester into drama and un-enjoyment. I am sticking by my guns and will continue to fight this to ensure that dps meters don't make it into the game. Edited January 20, 2012 by Innocentone

[NuanceNW]

I'll take content over dev AND support costs in making statistical tools.

 

I do not want user created mods, addons -- period.

[Frostvein]

wow thats some true elitism right there

so some people shoudnt expect endgame content just because they arent hardcore enough

 

Well, um, kind of.

 

Its kind of like the NBA. If you aren't naturally talented or tall, then you probably shouldn't play with those athletes. It doesn't mean you can't play basketball, it just means you can't play basketball with Shaq when you are 5 foot 6 and can't run, dribble or shoot.

 

If you don't posses the skills necessary to properly contribute to an ops group, then you probably shouldn't play with that ops group. Etc, etc.

 

The only thing is, people are asking for a way to be able to distinguish who they want to play with. If Bioware doesn't provide a way, then those players are most likely going to leave the game. Now, while that may sound like a great idea to you, you need to ask yourself if Bioware is willing to alienate a large part of their playerbase in order to protect the ones who aren't as talented - and guess what? They already said they weren't.