Do something about the operative healers NOW

[Avicii]

Healers appear OP when they have cross healing and/or guard with a good tank and pilers to LoS. Otherwise a good DPS can hound a healer into just healing themselves which is what you want as he is not acting as a force multiplier for the rest of his team. In pugs it sucks when your team of tards won't focus 1 healer to take them out when there's cross healing or they break a stun on the sage while you are trying to down the other healer but that's life in regs.

 

Go watch some of MVPs streams of ranked or bodies and you can see how good teams operate or in some cases bad teams if the tank is sitting on the healer a couple if good smashes can do wonders. Anyway regstars would be helped a lot if they watched good players play to get a grasp of tactics. However the 90% of the pop that needs the help doesn't frequent these forums and as such it's tough to help them without a lot of patients in game.

[DeadDogBarking]

Ranked Warzones are only as important to this discussion as to the percentage of matches that occur versus non-ranked. I'm not saying ranked is not important, but I'm tired of people acting like it is the standard that the real majority of play should be judged by.

 

The operatives wreak havoc on non-ranked teams that can not control the complete set up of their team and whether they have voice to all members. A healer operative can completely keep a team of 7 from capping a node while the rest of their team takes the other 2. Yes, they are making a major play error, but how does somebody get the rest of the team to see that. You can insult people for not reading the chat or typing in it, but on my server we recently had an influx of players from APAC who may not speak English. Also for PUG one of the better strategys is to stay together when not in voice over trying more complex maneuvers.

 

As a sniper, I have seen healer operatives stay in concealment near a spawn point in VOIDSTAR and stun key players as they spawn, and then also heal their own people across from them. I have been inside of a bunker with my back against a wall stun my attacker and go to cap and see damage appearing on me, only to find that the healer was behind me healing the attackers and then waiting to damage me. I will mark this person and see them in the pit fighting a large battle when I respawn in hutball, but when I get to mid they are there ready to be ball carrier or also double stealth stun DPS on the balcony. They could also choose to heal.

 

I can deal with the heals, I can deal with the stealth, I can deal with the speed. I as an individual player may be able to deal with all of these, but I can not get a group who has not confronted this to understand how we can counter this together. Before you give me the list of how this can be done in a linear manner, remember that with the virtual unlimited access to the above abilities, the healer/operative is flexible enough to change the conditions and will a non-ranked team have the depth of members who know how to implement these together. A healer should only be a healer with limited pocket ability's, very limited energy for other abilities or a jack of all trade that never gets highest marks in any one skill (unless they are the top 2% like Merc/Mandos).

 

This one class played well in a typical non-ranked WZ can drop the kills on the other team with good players that are not used to being together to less than 5 while their team can rack up 25-60. I will even check for guild names or take screen shots and look for a group playing together, and get really depressed that what used to take a double or very good 4 person premade to accomplish can be done with a premade of 1.

 

Say what you will and type L2P all you want or even have the self stroking look down your nose reply of "in RWZ they do this", but I am just going to tranfer my toons to one server and switch factions when I see one side having an abundance of this one class, because I will not to play when me and my teams objective becomes how do we counter this one class/player instead of how do we take an objective.

 

I tried to keep it simple, but also give specific examples. In this case I probably did neither, but I hope that the number of folks with similar examples gets the message across.

Edited June 30, 2013 by DeadDogBarking

[skotish]

Sniper being a major annoyance to an EXCEPTIONAL operative healer? Who are you trying to fool on this forum? If the op healer has trouble with snipers, he is by definition a terrible terrible operative. RDPS is complete crap against op healers, only sorcs got a few force dots that they cannot cleanse. And legshot? bwahaha, are you saying he doesn't use cleanse to get rid of the root?

 

I love your posts ahahah cheers made chuckle

[Tankqull]

Ok, just a little background I play both a sorcerer and an operative for heals in WZ's.

 

Its pretty much impossible to kill any decent healer 1v1 and any good healer it will take 1v2-3 to bring him down. Its completely different if I have a guard though. With a guard, it is pretty much impossible for a healer to die unless its 2v3-8 (assuming both tank and healer are decent). Less if opposite team is really good at using stuns/mezz to screw with the healer long enough to focus the tank, but to me this is to be expected.

 

have to disagree with you, i´m playing aswell healer (ops, sage) and m-DDs (sent, assa) and in a true 1vs1 maro/sent will allways kill a healer or force him to stay vanished till the end of the day if he wants to survive, both stealth types can ravage a healer anytime. range dds beside mando/mercs every 90sec are as best annoying though.

[Ajuntalee]

@deaddogbarking ,

 

you are so full of sh.t.

 

you post ins't worth quoting for breakdown point by point disembermend, every sentence , every assertion you make is more ignorant, ridiculous, and incredible than the one preceeding it.

 

Come back to reality, play an operative healer, or whatever spec, I dare you pull even a single one of the tricks you describe.

Edited June 30, 2013 by Ajuntalee

[CorellianWannabe]

No offense, but you are basically promoting a FOTM concept of the game balancing, which i will hardly consider a good approach to balancing the game.

 

It's not about balancing the game, it's about getting people to keep playing. If the FOTM spec keeps rotating, players will create/play one of that spec, thereby lengthening the time played (and the money paid).

[Zunayson]

It's not about balancing the game, it's about getting people to keep playing. If the FOTM spec keeps rotating, players will create/play one of that spec, thereby lengthening the time played (and the money paid).

 

This.

 

And somthing's gotta be FOTM. If all damage is cut by 99%, something will still do more damage....

[ObiJuanShenobi]

QQ much?

 

Dude the game is pretty balanced. With my operative, yeah, I put up big numbers, stay alive real well, and keep my mates up, but the minute I come across people that actually know how to target the healer AND know how to play their own class, then I'm in trouble just like the next guy.

[helpmewin]

Map gates 6 opers healers lol.

http://www.picshare.ru/view/2381767/

They are not OP "trollface"

[MotorCityMan]

It's not about balancing the game, it's about getting people to keep playing. If the FOTM spec keeps rotating, players will create/play one of that spec, thereby lengthening the time played (and the money paid).

 

Even though this smacks of paranoia and conspiracy theories, I always supposed this also. I firmly believe for example that since rogues were the least played class in wow, in danger of going extinct, they received a huge buff. It wasn't about balance, it was to get people to play that class. And also incidently, having another character to level and gear.

Edited July 1, 2013 by MotorCityMan

[Vral_Haas]

Op/Scoundrel healers are fine. No need to fix what's not broken.

 

If there is anything, just for the sake of argument, they're a bit easy to manage with instant-cast heals, and that much more difficult to counter. Perhaps change one of the instant-cast heals to casting type, or tone it down slightly.

 

Have plenty of experience fighting against teams with 2, 3, even 4 healers, cross healing, guarded, taunts, peels etc.. and for the last two years, and in every case where we couldn't overcome enemy heals, it was always our team that had some major problems, due to which, we would meet difficulty in keeping enemy healers under check.

 

As long as the team is functioning, has classes/roles as needed, and has players with at least average knowledge about PvP, Op/Scoundrels are just another one of enemies that can be taken down. Ofcourse, admittedly, things are not always rosy pink when playing with PuGs -- but then, the same applies to the enemies as well. Sometimes they don't have healers, sometimes their healers are inexperienced or plain stupid, etc..

 

I think that would change things in a way noone gets too badly hurt. Nothing goes well when you try to balance things by pounding things too hard, just "fine tunning".

Edited July 1, 2013 by Vral_Haas

[Vral_Haas]

Silly troll!

 

Almost all the QQ in this thread could probably be absolved if people actually learn to play. Check out the operative class yourself sometime and learn its limitations.

 

I'll give you a hint, a single burst-dpser will rarely be able to take down an operative solo. Well...except for marauder, they can do fine if they're not incompetent.

 

If there's multiple healers learn to split and apply mass dps pressure to them all at once. If you can't do that, tough luck. It's not the "OP" operatives' fault you're bad!

 

People are so single-minded it's adorably hilarious. Perhaps your goal should not be to HURR DUR KILL SMASH, but to distract the operative long enough for everyone else to murder their teammates. Even with MY average skill level, a single dps can rarely focus me down no matter what healer I play. Merc, Sorc, Operative, you name it.

 

Learn to play. Stop blaming the operatives. Learn to identify bad luck w/ the randomized team roster. Leave Exfiltrate the f**k alone. How would you like it if there was mass QQ to nerf Force Speed/Charge/Intercede, all of which tend to be even more reliable than Exfiltrate.

 

Instead of endlessly whining for bioware to "fix classes" learn to improve yourself first. (I'm fighting a hopeless battle here, aren't I?)

 

Yes you are.

 

But just for this: No matter what BW does, we all won't be happy. Let's say we break changes in 4 categories:

 

- All new.

- A lot.

- A bit.

- Nothing at all.

 

Choose any of that and this are posible answers to that change/s:

 

- Someone will whine about it.

 

 

That said, I guess I could live with a slight (and I repeat SLIGHT) change to Operatives/Scoundrels healing skills, like one instant change to short time casting.

But if that doesn't change, I won't be screaming around for BW to use a nerf bat. It never really helps. In MMOs I played, nerf bats don't fix anything, just change the target for OP seekers to whine about.

[PerinnAybara]

I'd be happy if they changed slow release medpack/their dot heal, to a channel. That would completely destroy them as a healer class.

[Atramar]

if they tune down healing we'll all go concealment... and then you will cry

[Nilatis]

This must be some kind of end-game thing because in lower tiers they're barely average. They have low energy cost, considering their heal over time ability, but at the cost of efficiency. They are better than Mercenary healers, but on an average. Sorcerer healers will always be number one, it seems, part from the fact that they are as easily spotted as Mercenaries are. Operatives gets away with the instant heal over time ability; no cast time equals no green heal icon equals not easily spotted equals rarely zerged by opponents. That's about it.

[Kaerwolf]

This is unbearable. If both teams have the same skill level, the team which has more of these freaks will win and that's it. People are leaving the WZs because of this, the team with less operative re.tards has a fluctuation of nearly 100% cause it's absolutely pointless to try anything against these abortions.

 

BW STOP THIS!!!

 

Exactly what is it that they are supposed to do about operative healers specificly? Operatives' heals aren't that great compared to for example a Sage/Sorceror and if it is their shield probe you have problems with it's nothing compared to sage/sorcerors force barrier. If you use your incapacitating abilities you cut them down in 4-5 hits as dps.

 

If however, it is the endless series of rolls that bothers you I fully agree with you. Especially as they can do it while remaining stealthed.

[ObiJuanShenobi]

I'd be happy if they changed slow release medpack/their dot heal, to a channel. That would completely destroy them as a healer class.

 

So judging by your trolling, er...statement, is that you want the Operative to lose total viability as a healer class? If your solution is to make it to where they can't be a healer class anymore because its be "destroyed", what's the point in having healers at all?

Edited July 1, 2013 by ObiJuanShenobi

[Cretinus]

So judging by your trolling, er...statement, is that you want the Operative to lose total viability as a healer class? If your solution is to make it to where they can't be a healer class anymore because its be "destroyed", what's the point in having healers at all?

 

You don't have to destroy them. But instant heals + roll + stealth + instant HP refill below 30% etc. is simply too much in combination. Give them a CD on roll and tune down the instants, or make stealth for DPS only, dunno, there are several ways to bring them back to earth without destroying them.

[Atramar]

You don't have to destroy them. But instant heals + roll + stealth + instant HP refill below 30% etc. is simply too much in combination. Give them a CD on roll and tune down the instants, or make stealth for DPS only, dunno, there are several ways to bring them back to earth without destroying them.

 

make 'instant below 30% refil', godly 2k(3.2k on crit) per gcd heal channeled (minimum 2.5 sec and 30 energy).

that will learn(intended) them

 

and remove free heal. how dare they heal for a whole 900 in 2.1 second and regen energy at same time. that almost twice as avarage pvp dps. I know, right?

Edited July 2, 2013 by Atramar

[anwg]

Learn 2 cc and focus fire. 3 DPS can easily kill one during a 4 second stun.

[PerinnAybara]

So judging by your trolling, er...statement, is that you want the Operative to lose total viability as a healer class? If your solution is to make it to where they can't be a healer class anymore because its be "destroyed", what's the point in having healers at all?

 

It's called merc healers.

 

They're my direct competition for the tech healer.

 

And if operative and sorc healers are going to call their numbers fine in comparison to mercs, i'd be glad to see both of them "destroyed".

 

And honestly they'd still have all their utility, limitless ammo, and emergency medpack. Thus they'd just lose a bit of their maneuverability, and make it harder for them to keep up their dots. As it is they have unlimited tactical advantage. It means that they'll actually have an important skill of theirs on an actual channel. They'll feel less maneuverable, closer to mercs, but still more maneuverable.

 

So yeah, I, a merc healer, would be happy if they made their rolling dots, casted. I would also be happy if they changed their resource management to make it so they can actually run out of tactical advantage. As it is they never have to manage it. They get tactical advantage so much easier than me getting supercharge gas cylinder stacks.

[Atramar]

It's called merc healers.

 

They're my direct competition for the tech healer.

 

And if operative and sorc healers are going to call their numbers fine in comparison to mercs, i'd be glad to see both of them "destroyed".

 

And honestly they'd still have all their utility, limitless ammo, and emergency medpack. Thus they'd just lose a bit of their maneuverability, and make it harder for them to keep up their dots. As it is they have unlimited tactical advantage. It means that they'll actually have an important skill of theirs on an actual channel. They'll feel less maneuverable, closer to mercs, but still more maneuverable.

 

So yeah, I, a merc healer, would be happy if they made their rolling dots, casted. I would also be happy if they changed their resource management to make it so they can actually run out of tactical advantage. As it is they never have to manage it. They get tactical advantage so much easier than me getting supercharge gas cylinder stacks.

 

turend my L54 commando into healer and my merc into healer to level as healer to learn the healing ways.

since first FP I'm rocking with it even with not optimized (ex dps) gear.

not tried pvp yet, but in time.

I love how they roll (not literally), might even change my main healer for that. Hydraulic ovverides are more useful, burst healing is amazing, kolto bombs is sweet.

less qq more pew pew.

[Cretinus]

Learn 2 cc and focus fire. 3 DPS can easily kill one during a 4 second stun.

 

Exactly. And if it still doesn't work, then take 5 DPS. 5 DPS can easily kill one during a 4 sec stun. In the meantime, the other 3 members of your group can cap east, west and mid. So stop being terribad and l2 cc and focus fire.

Edited July 2, 2013 by Cretinus

[Atramar]

Exactly. And if it still doesn't work, then take 5 DPS. 5 DPS can easily kill the scophealer during a 4 sec stun. In the meantime, the other 3 members of your group will face no resistance while capping east, west and mid. So stop being terribad and l2 cc and focus fire.

 

if DDs don't know they have more then 2 skills + interrupt, it might as well take 25 of them to kill a healer.

lack of brains in 79% of DD community is not reason to nerf.

[anwg]

Exactly. And if it still doesn't work, then take 5 DPS. 5 DPS can easily kill one during a 4 sec stun. In the meantime, the other 3 members of your group can cap east, west and mid. So stop being terribad and l2 cc and focus fire.

 

If that doesn't work you should uninstall, or at least stay away from warzones.