does anyone else get instructed what to do because you dont follow the norm?

[Fastdoze]

im just curious, i have an end game tank of every tank class and quite a fair amount of experience tanking, and today i get instructed by a merc healer that kept giving me instructions on how to do everything in Athiss HM (not on how to tank, but where to stand, what to do, all like im ignorant before we even begin) that they were only used to doing it a particular way, and because i wasn't following their 'norm', as they saw it, they kept giving me instructions on everything.

 

Partly due to a lack of confidence and not wanting to argue on my part, i just go ahead and do as 'instructed' rather than just do what i know for a fact works very well for me in every group im with i just go along with it because its been adopted as the 'norm' thing to do, and though most pugs expect you to do things a particular way, some things i have found more effective ways of doing some things than others realise, and is easier just to follow a tank that at least has some idea of what to do. Didn't help that it happened to be the first time i had ever wiped in that HM.

 

My question is, has anyone else been instructed what to do when tanking? its bloody annoying when you know the content and someone else, either dps, or heals is telling you what to do, "I do it this way when i tank this on my guardian all the time." "Oh, but my guild doesn't do it this way, therefore it must be wrong!"

[Aikura]

I feel for you. Sadly, there is sometimes a real failure of imagination when it comes to strategy and tactics in this game, emanating in particular from the “X or you’re doing it wrong” crowd. Some of those people might really know their stuff, but I’m not sure that makes it any less of a failure. Other times, they may not, but are still stuck in their ways. There can be a tendency to just want to run the FP and get the loot at the end, and it makes people averse to experimentation, or entertaining the idea that there might be alternative approaches.

 

Now, if you are going your own way and the group is really carrying you, and they are trying to politely explain that you are doing something stupid, that’s a different story. I’m like you and I’m willing to usually go along with an assertive player rather than force a tired argument, even if their tactics seem whacky. But I also always try to be conscious of the fact that they may also know something I don’t.

 

So yeah, in PUGs I have sometimes been told what to do in various roles, sometimes even before the start line, and sometimes by players who didn’t really know as much as they thought they knew. It was kind of obvious/annoying/patronising at times, but I recognise also that it’s probably better to be on the same page before you start.

[annabethchase]

You're the tank. You're the only one that can call them on their BS and not worry about having to wait in a Que if they rage-kick you. It's kind of you're duty to calm down the moron's behavior.

[Hyfy]

Really all you can do is tell em you've tanked it before and so you're going to go ahead and do what you do and they can either step up and follow along or step out. I've had the same sort of thing happen before too. Or I'll get the Marauder that thinks he's a tank and jump in first etc, so ill tell em fine then you tank it and ill just sit back watch, after they die a time or two they usually get the idea.

[chuixupu]

There are always gamers that think there is only one right way to do things. We used to run into that problem a lot when we'd get either pugs or new guild members who would get so frustrated when our raid leader had his own strategies that they weren't used to, they couldn't adapt to it, they would just be like "That's not how X did it, that's not right way!" It's good to be open to new strategies, though, there are definitely times when we learned something that made a fight so much easier.

[Andryah]

Really all you can do is tell em you've tanked it before and so you're going to go ahead and do what you do and they can either step up and follow along or step out.

 

Sound advice, IMO.

[OddballEasyEight]

Oh yeah constantly...

 

 

oh wait... you mean in the game?

 

No, not very often, but thats mainly because i dont do HM FPs and Ops...

[Icestar]

im just curious, i have an end game tank of every tank class and quite a fair amount of experience tanking, and today i get instructed by a merc healer that kept giving me instructions on how to do everything in Athiss HM (not on how to tank, but where to stand, what to do, all like im ignorant before we even begin) that they were only used to doing it a particular way, and because i wasn't following their 'norm', as they saw it, they kept giving me instructions on everything.

 

Yes, I have noticed this too.

 

Some instruct wrong and gets upset when I tell them how to do the bosses. It has happened a few times lately the last week. Perhaps there is a wierd youtube instruction video that new players watch to pretend be more "elite"

[darkbadeo]

now im not max level yet but i do see my fair share of idiots in pug party's (fp)

im a healer and im fully specced for healing im not thinking damage i think about how much i try to heal

 

so when i get swamped with mobs i usualy start avoiding them rather then fighting them (again im a healer i try to focus on those that are losing hp)

 

i think it was yesterday that i joined a party with a jedi gaurdian as a tank

she (yes she) kept going after the lowest mobs while almost every player knows that trash mobs are for dps to take out and the tank should focus on those that actualy do alot of damage

wel this tank didnt

she first goes after a weak mob and i start doing my job i heal

i get rushed by 5 strong/elite mobs and nearly die before the dps noticed im in danger

then the dps try to pull agro away wich htey barely succeed in saving my ***

i turn my heals on the dps seeing as they are usualy not specced for tanking yet they started to tank my agro(wich im very gratefull for)

 

then the tank gets mad at me for not healing her and pulling all the agro

wile i was doing my job she was focusing on trash mobs

i told her that she needs to get her act straight

 

and she suddenly says you wanna tank?

at that point i thought bleep it if you die its not my fault

however at the same time that i was thinking that i also rememberd that she is the tank and without a tank we wont survive so in the end i try to do my best while she keeps focusing on trash

in the end i think all the dps that was with us were the tank

and the tank itself handled trash

 

long story short

know what you need to do or ****

and yes that girl is now on my no no list

i will no longer party with some one like that

 

so yes i tried instructing her BUT she clearly did not know how to tank at all

[Warrgames]

Happens to me sometimes. I just ingore them.

[Master-Nala]

For better or worse, as a tank, you don't have to take crap from anyone. Instant queues will do that. So next time feel free to impose your will on them!

[Alec_Fortescue]

I don' t care as long as the tanks gets the job done. Neither people I group up with (so far) do care as we keep punishing the mobs.

[jedip_enguin]

Last time some chump did this to me I just told him to shut the hell up, or i'd just drop, requeue and finish another fp while they waited for a replacement.

 

Seemed to do the trick.

[Darkwords]

I don't instruct because I mainly dps, however, I do know proper placement and handling of mobs for encounters from experience playing.. If a tank does stupid stuff and it wipes the group, I simply leave.

 

I recently did Athiss and on the first boss outside he pulled him all the way across the area from where the small doggie add come out and by the time they got to our area, they were agro'd on me, the other dps and the poor healer. My death from above kills them in one shot in a cluster but isn't effective when they are all over the place. We wiped and I simply left...no argue, no instruction...just cya! I call this "Stupid tank tricks" and my ignore list grows.

Edited June 19, 2013 by Darkwords

[Sziroten]

im just curious, i have an end game tank of every tank class and quite a fair amount of experience tanking, and today i get instructed by a merc healer that kept giving me instructions on how to do everything in Athiss HM (not on how to tank, but where to stand, what to do, all like im ignorant before we even begin) that they were only used to doing it a particular way, and because i wasn't following their 'norm', as they saw it, they kept giving me instructions on everything.

 

Partly due to a lack of confidence and not wanting to argue on my part, i just go ahead and do as 'instructed' rather than just do what i know for a fact works very well for me in every group im with i just go along with it because its been adopted as the 'norm' thing to do, and though most pugs expect you to do things a particular way, some things i have found more effective ways of doing some things than others realise, and is easier just to follow a tank that at least has some idea of what to do. Didn't help that it happened to be the first time i had ever wiped in that HM.

 

My question is, has anyone else been instructed what to do when tanking? its bloody annoying when you know the content and someone else, either dps, or heals is telling you what to do, "I do it this way when i tank this on my guardian all the time." "Oh, but my guild doesn't do it this way, therefore it must be wrong!"

 

This is only an issue if you don't know what you are doing, taking more damage than necessary, pulling adds due to knockback etc. . A simple... I know this flashpoint should be more than enough to shut everyone up. However if you die because you are standing behind a 1mm high wall and the game makes you LoS for the healer which told you to stay differently... it's time to grow up and apologize because not always are hints and tipps just for the sake of an argument but actually good tips for some players.

[Seireeni]

I can only remember one time, and that was in sm and quite amusing. Mandalorian raiders, boarding party, me as a pt tank. I like to pull this so that I open at the knight and aggro that and the consular first (maybe use 3-4 gcds to do that) and then, when I'm sure the knight and the consular won't start hitting the dps during the next few moments, hit trooper and agent with death from above to get aggro from those. And that's what I did, and a few moments later I had aggroed those two, there was a message on the chat from the healer: "would you please aggro all of them".

I guess it was very important to him to be at 100% hp, not 90%.

 

But yeah, I guess I have been lucky. Only other time I can remember was when I was maintanking KP for the first time, but at that time I really needed the advice. I had once before tanked Karagga because the main tank disconnected during the fight, and that time I was dragging the boss in a kind of a circle without going to the corners (which I think is the right tactic?). But during the fight people asked *** I was doing and told me to not to drag the boss "all over the area" and that I should stick next to the wall at all times. I thought okay, and at my first time as the main tank (only tank actually, we had been queueing for a replacement for ages...) I did just that: I stayed next to the wall at all times, dragging the boss to the corners and so on. We actually wiped that one and the group was kind enough to explain to me that the original tactic I was doing was the right one, since it allowed the dps to stand beside Karagga, while dragging him to corners forced them to be behind Karagga, which is a bad place to be.

 

But yeah, tanks get insta-pops. If your tactic works, you really can say that this is how I will tank, if you don't like it, feel free to find another tank. If your tactic causes wipes, though, that's a different thing.

[Mazikeen]

My question is, has anyone else been instructed what to do when tanking? its bloody annoying when you know the content and someone else, either dps, or heals is telling you what to do, "I do it this way when i tank this on my guardian all the time." "Oh, but my guild doesn't do it this way, therefore it must be wrong!"

 

Has happened to me before in pretty much every MMO since WoW. I tell them all the same thing... to &%$# off or find another tank. Since the latter option isn't really an option to most, the former ends up being the result. I've been tanking in various MMOs for 13 years, have my set reasons and if they don't like it, tough &%#$.

 

There's a difference between being confident and being a jerk. Don't forget that, and don't let people push you around. If you know what you're doing, do it. If you don't, take advice if it's given pleasantly.

[Phill]

Please understand, right now there are a flood of new tanks out there...As a healer, generally speaking I will look for signs before I ask someone if they have tanked before.

 

1. If I as a healer have more HP then the tank..(this is not so much as I'm a well geared healer)

2. If the tank has DPS gear (this is my personal pet peeve)

3. Is the tank in the right stance?

4. Did the tank guard anyone?

5. Is the tank turning the mobs away from the group?

6. Is the tank watching the healer or aggro?

7. Is the tank marking, asking for, CC?

8. Is the tank breaking CC? Sometimes Smash is bad..

9. Is the tank positing themselves on certain bosses as to not get knocked all over the place (ie back to the wall)?

10. is the tank standing in circles of stupidity?

11. Is the tank focusing on the strongs+ and leaving the tiny adds to dps to deal with?

12. Actually using their taunts...

 

There needs to be some "norm" to tanking...Tanking 101..A tank can make or break a group...

 

However, In your case, if you felt you knew the FP and you know your class role..then you should have said something...

Edited June 19, 2013 by Phill

[Joesixxpack]

Haha, PUGs get backseat drivers sometimes. If you know and do your job it's a simple bottom line:

 

You lead.

 

He follows, or can piss off and requeue.

[Repman]

I did get yelled at yesterday for not healing on my Sniper lol I suspect in low level flashpoints people queue up as a healer or tank for the quick pop.

[Alavastre]

You're the tank man. You're the defacto leader. If you don't like it, tell the healer to scram. Easier for the healer to change up a bit than the tank anyways. As a healer you're used to running for your life once in a while. No biggy.

[Galbatorrix]

What I can't stand are the little "tricks" people think make a fight easier for whatever reason when they're normally just pointless. For instance, the final boss on Taral V.... uh, taking out the few turrets and then DPSing the few adds that spawn is complete cake. Yet people insist that everyone crams in the little box under the stairs to make it a confusing mess. I've NEVER wiped in that boss doing it the way it was intended, but I've had several wipes because someone didn't hide all the way or the tank didn't pull the boss into the "hidey hole" the right way.

[MillionsKNives]

What I can't stand are the little "tricks" people think make a fight easier for whatever reason when they're normally just pointless. For instance, the final boss on Taral V.... uh, taking out the few turrets and then DPSing the few adds that spawn is complete cake. Yet people insist that everyone crams in the little box under the stairs to make it a confusing mess. I've NEVER wiped in that boss doing it the way it was intended, but I've had several wipes because someone didn't hide all the way or the tank didn't pull the boss into the "hidey hole" the right way.

 

I always felt the same about the adds just before the big droid in Karagga's Palace. Yes, if people run into those zones without thinking it can end up badly, but I've never had problems with that one. It's the other ones that usually cause wipes. But yet everyone insists on backing into that little corner in the next room and waiting for them to run to us. Some of those tricks are just more trouble than they're worth.

 

I usually refrain from giving any advice unless it's clearly needed, or if I just have a tip for them. Usually if it's the latter I let them do their thing and mention it afterwards. "LOS can be quicker if you use phase walk", "I find it easier to stand in the corner over here", "You can grapple X without aggroing the rest of the group".

 

I can't really remember instances where anyone was particularly annoying with "advice", aside from one guild member who felt the need to question every command I gave in an ops because "I've always done it like this". And his way was usually more complex, lead to the same result, and occasionally lead to wipes because it was just a bad idea. We were less familiar with these encounters than he was, so we did listen to an extent, but after figuring out how he had no idea what he was talking about most of the time I stopped. For example, on the way to Karagga there are a couple sets of adds with turrets. He had us CC the two guys on the side and all of us hang back and out range the turret to kill the warrior. That's all fine and dandy until you try to kill the turret. Spending all that time with the warrior, the turret now uses unload as its first thing, and is likely targeting a healer now. So we go to kill it and a healer instantly dies. If you kill the turret outright there is a period of time you have to damage/kill it before it starts the unload which does insane amounts of damage. Never had a problem since going back to killing it the normal way.

Edited June 19, 2013 by MillionsKNives

[branmakmuffin]

Some people (like the BH mentioned in the OP) know to do raids in one way and one way only, because that's how they were taught. They cannot conceive that there might be other ways to accomplish the same goals and they are too busy putting on the bravado to cover their self-doubt to admit they might be the teensiest bit wrong.

[btsager]

I've never had anyone try to make me conform to their way of doing something. However I do find that there is an increasing amount of people who have no clue about even the basics of gameplay. If the other members of my groups seems like they know what they are doing I usually say nothing. But I frequently find myself explaining every fight and tactics that should be obvious.

 

Simple things like move away from targets under you. And don't stand in front of the boss because he may have a frontal cleave or cone ae.

 

When I am healing, my biggest pet peeve is when the dps in a group attack strong or elite mobs without the tank first having agro on them. My opinion is that DPS should be killing off any weak targets first and letting the tank work on getting agro from everything. Dps can usually kill off weak targets with 1-3 attacks while not taking any significant damage. And this is what I always do when I am DPSing.

 

When tanking, I know the best way to take on most encounters and as long as the dps are doing what they are supposed to, and the healer is somewhat confident, there is usually no problems.

 

My friend brought up a good point too. It seems like nobody knows how to interrupt mobs anymore. Every class in the game has at least one interrupt but nobody ever uses them. That and it seems like at least one person in every group doesn't understand their characters enough to know they are using an ability that is breaking the CC's. Or they are just dumb and are breaking the CC's on purpose.

 

Hey look, that mob has a shield icon above his head and he looks incapacitated, I should attack it.......