Macros for pvp, respecing, grabbing huttballs. Legal?

[Capt_Beers]

Yeah and when I cheat on my spouse it is because they are not paying me enough attention so it really is not cheating.

 

How many times has a character with cast spells has to battle a toon with spammable instants. I see have these folks run around me or in front of me or in back and forth directions using the same attacks. On many macros players need an individual key press for movement because there is no steady key press. My targetting and abilitys execution goes haywire. I press keys and click on icons and what I do versus what is showing for damage does not match. I see abilities trigger watch cooldown start and then I am dead in spawn and the ability is no longer on cooldown. There was a hack where folks would have the macros hit windows commands during each key press to disrupt how their character rendered and resolved damage during combat . I think this is a similar situation.

 

If this was just individual PUGS I would not be so upset, but when I am queing single and then having to face groups of these folks working as a team with voice it becomes unbearable and makes we wish for old fashioned chain stuns. (note I am not putting down good players who do work on a team and single out specific targets)

 

What is this? I don't even...

[islander]

How to make huttball autoclicker on Razer Naga mouse (insert here any hardware with built-in macro firmware).

 

1. Macro panel > record macro > 1 right click > stop recording > manually delete delay between button down and up > save macro.

2. Go to buttons panel > programm 1 button and choose macro > set mode to "start macro upon button press finish upon button press"

 

How to make quick respec macro. You probably won't do it with mouse/hardware macro firmware because they do not allow macroing mouse cursor position on coordinates. Need 3rd party programm, example: autohotkey.

Just record macro with mouse clicks on needed talents. Add hotkey. Do not change screen resolution. Boo-hoo?

 

See, when you get here, this is where I think you're breaking the game's rules.

 

Bioware never will punish Razer users, or Logitech G15 users, why? They sold their OWN versions of the items.

My own experiences with macros myself is that over time they end up fouling up somehow...I honestly don't use any macros today. In fact, I've never used a macro on my sniper ever. I use all of two on my sorcerer - who I haven't played since 2.0

Edited June 18, 2013 by islander

[cashogy_reborn]

the spam click macro i have no problem with.

 

but the respec macro, ye that should be grounds for some kind of account action. bioware could make that ineffective by allowing us to store two skill sets/toolbar setups. that would allow us to switch between specs quickly and not have to worry about folks with 3rd party scripts doing it at light speed.

[MahneWarrior]

I am fairly certain in competitive play macros are fairly normal. I mean normally players that wish to be the best push for every advantage possible to remain competitive. It does not make them unbeatable nor does it turn a bad player suddenly into a good one.

 

Sure it sucks, but I am sure people could figure out a work around to beat said team. Nut up or shut up. I mean I highly doubt they take any account action towards these players, since I sure these handful of people are not the only one using macros.

 

I mean macros in another MMO, with an extremely competitive pvp scene allows the use of macros if pvpers are coming from said game, fairly certain the idea of leaving those behind is baffling. Once something becomes the norm for you while playing a game for so many years, it is hard to give it up.

 

Not saying that I know any of these people, but only way to solve this is toss in a dual spec pre-saved bars and or prevent switching of specs mid warzone. If either of these were viable options bioware would had implemented them already I would think.

 

So all we can do is deal, and adapt. Either join them or, figure out a way to beat them. Running away does not fix anything, if anything it makes it worse for your causal pvpers on the server since then will have to deal with them using their advantage to pub stomp.

[MiaRB]

See, when you get here, this is where I think you're breaking the game's rules.

 

Bioware never will punish Razer users, or Logitech G15 users, why? They sold their OWN versions of the items.

My own experiences with macros myself is that over time they end up fouling up somehow...I honestly don't use any macros today. In fact, I've never used a macro on my sniper ever. I use all of two on my sorcerer - who I haven't played since 2.0

 

funny how cheaters always try to justify their cheating. owning a razor mouse isn't against TOS. using 3rd party software( razor, Logitech is 3rd party software ) to automate things for advantage is against TOS.

[JustinxDuff]

Lol at people talking about ranking as if it means anything. Its SWTOR PvP lol

[cashogy_reborn]

funny how cheaters always try to justify their cheating. owning a razor mouse isn't against TOS. using 3rd party software( razor, Logitech is 3rd party software ) to automate things for advantage is against TOS.

 

which is why SWTOR sponsored products with dedicated macro keys.....

 

the devs have already stated that these kinds of macros are legal (theyre basically just keybinding actions that you cant keybind through the game). its the looping macros that are against TOS

 

3rd party automation scripts have also been deemed illegal by the devs. you can look up the post if you want, its in that thread that was about the scripting in warzones.

[Astarica]

which is why SWTOR sponsored products with dedicated macro keys.....

 

the devs have already stated that these kinds of macros are legal (theyre basically just keybinding actions that you cant keybind through the game). its the looping macros that are against TOS

 

3rd party automation scripts have also been deemed illegal by the devs. you can look up the post if you want, its in that thread that was about the scripting in warzones.

 

The game company does not have as much power as they claim to have. In SWTOR's case it's particularly hard for them to defend a position of '3rd party tools are bad, except the ones we have a deal with'. The only thing that helps SWTOR's case is that if they ever get in a lawsuit, every major online gaming company will probably pitch in because it'd be a very bad precedent for any online gaming company if there's a precedent of a company losing on this issue. It's rarely as clear cut as the game company wants you to think it is, which is why they try to discourage people from suing them. They probably won't lose but it's not as simple as 'EULA says so, no way we'll lose'.

[Macroeconomics]

Dev post says mouse-over healing is ok and that almost certainly involves a script so I don't think a QoL respec script is disallowed.

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showpost.php?p=3310172&postcount=288

 

No. That dev post was discussing whether game enhancements which would be available to *ALL* players would include macros, mouse over healing, etc. That kind of potential dev built addition to the game can not be used to rationalize 3rd party macros available to only a portion of the player base.

[MiaRB]

which is why SWTOR sponsored products with dedicated macro keys.....

 

the devs have already stated that these kinds of macros are legal (theyre basically just keybinding actions that you cant keybind through the game). its the looping macros that are against TOS

 

3rd party automation scripts have also been deemed illegal by the devs. you can look up the post if you want, its in that thread that was about the scripting in warzones.

 

creating a macro to respec in 3-4 seconds is cheating, plain and simple. that is using 3rd party software to automate the game for advantage. as I said, it doesn't matter one bit if you are using razor software or Logitech software.

[cashogy_reborn]

creating a macro to respec in 3-4 seconds is cheating, plain and simple. that is using 3rd party software to automate the game for advantage. as I said, it doesn't matter one bit if you are using razor software or Logitech software.

 

you cant use razer or logitech software to respec tho..... iirc neither synapse nor logitech gaming software allow you to automate mouse click locations. all you can do is button presses, which are legal.

 

you need a 3rd party automated script, something like autoit, to do a respec macro. which is illegal.

[bsbrad]

you cant use razer or logitech software to respec tho..... iirc neither synapse nor logitech gaming software allow you to automate mouse click locations. all you can do is button presses, which are legal.

 

you need a 3rd party automated script, something like autoit, to do a respec macro. which is illegal.

 

and yet ppl do it with no repercussions. There are plenty of streams of players doing this so the fact that it hasn't got banned suggests BW is turning a blind eye to these exploits.

 

As I stated before my position on using any exploit (bolster, corner capping, speed hacks, macros etc...) is gaming the system and should not be tolerated. But I am just a whisper in a cacophony of noise.

[LaVall]

Hey guys I had a question, and hopefully a developer can chime in as well. There is a guild on my server, who shall go unnamed, that uses macros in warzones both regs and rateds in order to respec in literally 3-4 seconds, speed click the huttball on the pit, and other things. I was under the impression this wasnt in compliance with the TOS, but one of the members linked a message where he interpreted Bioware saying its ok for quality of life to mean he can do these things in pvp. Obviously this gives them huge advantages in warzones. Doesn't matter how many people you have at mid if one of them are there they will always grab the ball, and as I said, and did not exaggerate, they can switch between dps and heals, or tank and dps within a matter of 3-4 seconds while walking through a warzone.

 

So basically, is this against TOS or is it ok to do these things? One of the reasons we are hesitant to do rateds with them is because of the huge advantage this brings, and we don't want to do it as well to simply end up banned, just for the sake of being on equal footing. So please let me know, and if a Bioware employee could shed some light on it I would greatly appreciate it.

 

Ugh, I know how you feel, Neo. You can get the first goal or two against them and then never get the ball again no matter how much you outnumber them at mid. Just 3 or 4 of them can decimate an excellent team that doesn't cheat. They're are all very good players that have no need to cheat, especially in regs. I lost a lot of respect for them over the matter.

[funkiestj]

a macro for respecing in wouldnt be possible, there are mouseclicks involved. it would have to be a script with either pixel/image recognition or screen locations for mouseclicks.

 

i think that would be against the rules

 

I've read and reread the BW post on macros. As far as I can tell they prohibit

• botting type automation
  
• executing a sequence of attacks during combat. E.g. a single key press does that does saber throw, leap, force push, leap, stun (with GCD delays between each) is prohibited.
  

 

grabbing the huttball, implementing an attack priority with a single key press (e.g. pressing "1" causes "1234" to be sent) and respeccing are allowed by my reading.

 

I haven't downloaded AHK and tried to make a respeccing macro (yet) but I think by unconfiguring "movable windows" you can create a respec macro with a fixed series of mouse moves and clicks because the respec window will open in a known location. No pixel reading required. NOTE: I don't recall BW having a prohibition against screen reading -- I just don't think it is necessary. Also, I don't think AHK can do screen sc******.

 

Given BW's vague "macro rules" wording it is hard to be certain about the acceptability of a respec macro. Perhaps this would be a good time for them to step in an comment on both the huttball grabbing and respccing use cases. I will take silence on their part as agreement with my assessment.

 

I generally find I'd rather play than work on something like a macro but maybe I'll find the willpower to work on a respec macro this week.

Edited June 18, 2013 by funkiestj

[funkiestj]

it would be nice if BW would level the in WZ respeccing playing field by

 

• providing respec (skill tree, quickbar mapping and gear change) as part of the in game UI
  
• eliminate external respeccing macro advantage. E.g. by having the respec commit (and in game auto-respec) take a period of time (e.g. 10 seconds or what ever is deemed best for the game).
  

 

I would actually prefer for respec to be disabled once a player has entered the warzone playing field. This would restrict the whole respec macro question to after WZ is known but before the match has begun. In this scenario a 4 second respec macro confers little or no advantage over manual clicking.

 

Of course the question of "does respeccing on the playing field (after WZ has begun) make the game more interesting or less interesting?" is a separate discussion.

[cashogy_reborn]

another solution would be to allow dual-spec, which is something bioware has talked about doing for a long time.

[stringcat]

Ugh, I know how you feel, Neo. You can get the first goal or two against them and then never get the ball again no matter how much you outnumber them at mid. Just 3 or 4 of them can decimate an excellent team that doesn't cheat. They're are all very good players that have no need to cheat, especially in regs. I lost a lot of respect for them over the matter.

 

Can you explain how it could possibly affect the outcome of a huttball match that a player spends 7 seconds respeccing before the match begins rather than 15 seconds?

[Crawelc]

Somebody say scripts? My spidey sense was tingling

[funkiestj]

another solution would be to allow dual-spec, which is something bioware has talked about doing for a long time.

 

Yes, although why stop at 2 specs? I might want a different spec for each WZ. I would hope multi-spec would include remembering the quickbar assignments. If multi-spec doesn't change my gear for me then there is still value (speed) in a gear change macro, albeit much less than a full respec macro.

 

Manually respeccing would be greatly improved if I could subtract points. Sometimes I just want to move a few points around and reclicking all of them is annoying.

[MiaRB]

I've read and reread the BW post on macros. As far as I can tell they prohibit

• botting type automation
  
• executing a sequence of attacks during combat. E.g. a single key press does that does saber throw, leap, force push, leap, stun (with GCD delays between each) is prohibited.
  

 

grabbing the huttball, implementing an attack priority with a single key press (e.g. pressing "1" causes "1234" to be sent) and respeccing are allowed by my reading.

 

I haven't downloaded AHK and tried to make a respeccing macro (yet) but I think by unconfiguring "movable windows" you can create a respec macro with a fixed series of mouse moves and clicks because the respec window will open in a known location. No pixel reading required. NOTE: I don't recall BW having a prohibition against screen reading -- I just don't think it is necessary. Also, I don't think AHK can do screen sc******.

 

Given BW's vague "macro rules" wording it is hard to be certain about the acceptability of a respec macro. Perhaps this would be a good time for them to step in an comment on both the huttball grabbing and respccing use cases. I will take silence on their part as agreement with my assessment.

 

I generally find I'd rather play than work on something like a macro but maybe I'll find the willpower to work on a respec macro this week.

 

the rules are not vague. its simple, using a macro to automate something to give yourself an advantage is not allowed. using a macro to respec before a WZ starts is not the same as recpecing multiple times during a WZ because your cheater macro can do it in a few seconds.

[Keese]

it would be nice if BW would level the in WZ respeccing playing field by

 

• providing respec (skill tree, quickbar mapping and gear change) as part of the in game UI
  
• eliminate external respeccing macro advantage. E.g. by having the respec commit (and in game auto-respec) take a period of time (e.g. 10 seconds or what ever is deemed best for the game).
  

 

I would actually prefer for respec to be disabled once a player has entered the warzone playing field. This would restrict the whole respec macro question to after WZ is known but before the match has begun. In this scenario a 4 second respec macro confers little or no advantage over manual clicking.

 

Of course the question of "does respeccing on the playing field (after WZ has begun) make the game more interesting or less interesting?" is a separate discussion.

 

I actually know of 2 other MMOs that disable Field Respecing ( Dual Spec Swapping ) after the WZ/BG timer begins. So basicly Bioware could potentially set it up so that Respecing is Disable after the WZ Pre-Match Timer reaches zero.

[funkiestj]

the rules are not vague. its simple, using a macro to automate something to give yourself an advantage is not allowed. using a macro to respec before a WZ starts is not the same as recpecing multiple times during a WZ because your cheater macro can do it in a few seconds.

 

original post by BW.

 

It says "no automation" not "no automation that gives advantage". The term "automation" is so vague as to be meaningless. A priority list (e.g. hitting "1" replays "1234") is a sort of automation yet it is explicitly mentioned as being allowed.

 

In the meantime, I plan to join the club of folks who have respec macros. Executing this plan means I devote time to learning AHK so who knows if the plan will be carried to execution.

 

How hard is it for BW to know what their own ToS mean and to comment on whether a respec macro violates it or not?

 

As I said before, eliminating in WZ respec avoids having a difficult to enforce rule (i.e. "no respec macro" yet many people are using them today without being punished).

[Maelael]

original post by BW.

 

How hard is it for BW to know what their own ToS mean and to comment on whether a respec macro violates it or not?

 

Actually, its worded rather well so they can ban anyone for anything. If it's not intended to be vague and open ended, you could easily not allow Beruthien to post to the public ever again. The third point actually invalidates itself, but supports what the macro mouses do - but yet doesn't mention mouses. Kinda cool huh? Welcome to CS in all fields of employment.

 

Technically, yes - doing a macro to respec is against the TOS according to that post. Falls well under "Automation".

 

Also, that post is pre 2.0, as the game changed and so did the TOS, I wouldn't count on that post.

 

However, given all of the attention and action BW gives to people who exploit, macro, hack, etc - even with streamed and recorded evidence - you should go ahead and do it. The only consequence is your own conscience - and if thats clear - enjoy the coms and wins.

[Jarfunkz]

Just get rid of field spec in warzones and all of a sudden this is not an issue. IMO voidstar completely sux because of field respec.

[Altheran]

As I said before, eliminating in WZ respec avoids having a difficult to enforce rule (i.e. "no respec macro" yet many people are using them today without being punished).

 

If these people are not punished, that's mostly because they have to be reported, and what kind of proof or clue do we have to suspect people from using illegal means ? There is hardly some, and we can't start to report all people who respec just in case they macro'ed.

 

That's why you're true saying that they should take measures to avoid doubts and having trouble with the rule enforcing. Disabling respeccing during a WZ is probably the only avaliable way.