Dread Guards Nightmare overtuned

[Gyronamics]

At least now BW is rolling content out faster (even tho there are bugs..). NiM TFB = a few weeks ago , nim SnV several weeks from now.

 

You think they changed their attitude and are going to keep pushing new content like this?

 

Because we're approaching the summer holiday period and that's a heck of a reason to push out all the content you're doing for 2013.

Edited June 18, 2013 by Gyronamics

[odawgg]

I played Mike Tyson's Punch Out as a kid. It took a long time to beat it. Once I beat it, I didn't play it as much.

 

For me it was King Hippo, I was very young, but I couldn't for the life of me figure out how to beat him. I ended up dragging my dad to Target right before it closed, bought the hint book and then killed him in like a minute ROFL. Definitely not the same though once someone tells you how.

[Krewel]

Well i was a very casual raider back in WoW and i can tell you my motivation for playing that game for 3 more expansions, even though i was never and know im not going to ever set foot in aq, bwl, BT, sunwell, ulduar...

 

Even if i cant beat them, the idea of having soooo much more to do, say past Grull's lair where my guild was stuck, was enough motivation for me to keep playing. It's like a very delicious carrot at the end of a very long stick. even tho i never saw those raids, the fact that there are people beating these very hard content and that there was so much more left to do, made the game back then feel so large, thriving and alive. lol i havent even seen kaelthas or ilidan or arthas but i enjoyed the game. It gives something to look forward to knowing that the game world is larger than where you're guild is currently stuck with.

 

(As a casual) I'd hate to be stuck in Grull's lair and know that that's the only raid left in the game. Even if we're stuck in Gruull's lair, there's still .. idk what its called Tempest keep i think? and black temple. Thats a lot of content and the idea that these existed were motivation enough for me to stay because... the game is HUGE and is aliiiiiive. Can we say the same for swtor? Will the game still be HUGE and alive if BW decides to stop caring for end-game pve content all together and focus on Cartel Packs?

 

If i was stuck in gruul's lair and that was the ONLY raid left ... as a casual ill get the feeling of "really that's it? what's left to do after we're done with this?"

 

Which is the feeling i've been getting in swtor the past few months. At least now BW is rolling content out faster (even tho there are bugs..). NiM TFB = a few weeks ago , nim SnV several weeks from now.

 

On what planet is BW rolling out content now faster? TFB was released 9 months ago, and last I checked, tweaked difficulty setting does not constitute new content. I thought WoW was terrible for forcing me to raid ICC for one year, but then I saw Bioware's brilliant advanced strategy of making content last longer by pushing NiM 6-9 months later ... twice in a row now they're trying to push an Operation for a year, the first one being EC (bear in mind ICC had 12 bosses, EC only FOUR). I had the patience for the latter, sure, but now with another delay of transfers and realising that it took them even longer to implement TFB NiM than EC NiM ... yeah, I'll just leave this funhouse before my brains get perma-damaged. Oh, and concerning fights like DG NiM - WoW called, they want their outdated dps checks back.

[Alduinsm]

It's faster because NiM S&V is coming out after 3 months since S&V came out.

[Sziroten]

BioWare -

 

If you delay a patch to buff an operation/fix bugs, please ensure that the fights are actually tuned. With a raid comp of 2 Marauders, 1 Merc, 1 Sniper (all pulling 2400-2600 DPS), we are hitting a hard enrage on Kelsara around ~40% HP.

 

Our guild has cleared NiM TFB on PTS, cleared all your HM raids the week upon release, and are fully capable players. The fights damage/healing requirements/etc are fine, but the ENRAGE TIMER is impossible with our current gear (full Underworld). I appreciate making the encounters more difficult, but you need to tune these fights.

 

Healers would have to pull 1.7k DPS in order to beat the current enrage timer, but that's impossible given the healing requirements on this fight.

 

Below please watch a VOD of what I am referring to:

 

http://www.twitch.tv/fridge_sa/c/2415629

 

Originally Posted by paowee

2nd NiM DG Council kill video by SuckaFish

 

Top-End raiding card removed for OP

Edited June 19, 2013 by Sziroten

[AlrikFassbauer]

Yes but a complete and successful MMO satisfies the minions and the elites. The elites are the guys who spread the word via forums etc. and are also the ones that teach, organize, and lead the minions.

 

I don't want to be called a "minion".

Anyone who calls me a "minion" goes instantly into my ignore list.

Like you.

 

This wording is to me Eliticism going out of control.

Next you are probably calling everyone bit the "Elites" "Underlings".

Edited June 19, 2013 by AlrikFassbauer

[Daegil]

To be honest, I've yet to see a kill where they managed to beat the enrage timer...

[Nostramas]

Looks like it's not impossible.

 

They did a full clear, which means more gear, which means this gets a bit easier.

[Khevar]

I don't want to be called a "minion".

Anyone who calls me a "minion" goes instantly into my ignore list.

Like you.

 

....

owdawgg is one of the top Arsenal Mercs in the game, and has many many posts helping others get better at it.

 

If you ever roll a Merc you'd be doing yourself a disservice putting him on ignore.

[paowee]

owdawgg is one of the top Arsenal Mercs in the game, and has many many posts helping others get better at it.

 

If you ever roll a Merc you'd be doing yourself a disservice putting him on ignore.

I was a bit taken aback tho when i read that "minion-elite post." Truth!

 

maybe just the stress of dg council lol

Edited June 19, 2013 by paowee

[Ansalem]

owdawgg is one of the top Arsenal Mercs in the game, and has many many posts helping others get better at it.

 

If you ever roll a Merc you'd be doing yourself a disservice putting him on ignore.

 

This is very true. I can't think of another arsenal merc that can push out as much dps as he can.

On a sidenote doing nightmare DG fight with a migraine is so not fun. BW I need you to code in an immediate patch for this migraine so I can raid.

[odawgg]

I don't want to be called a "minion".

Anyone who calls me a "minion" goes instantly into my ignore list.

Like you.

 

This wording is to me Eliticism going out of control.

Next you are probably calling everyone bit the "Elites" "Underlings".

 

You are absolutely right, I was having a convo with someone and just trying to articulate a point the best I could. I sincerely apologize for using terms that offended you and I will actually go back and edit them to different terms as I definitely did not mean to put down or insult anyone.

 

maybe just the stress of dg council lol

 

THIS! ^^

Edited June 19, 2013 by odawgg

[Luckeyduckey]

I'm excited to try it, if people are crying it's so hard. PvE was always too easy.

[paowee]

To be honest, I've yet to see a kill where they managed to beat the enrage timer...

 

Hmm.. to be honest it's quite satisfying killing a boss through enrage. It definitely adds more fun to the fight. Maybe instead of a set timer we can have bosses that auto-enrage at X% health? (NiM only ofc) I know it exists in a way during tantrum tfb but that fight is stationary where you sit on platforms and hope RNG is in your favor. At least with a Council type of fight, you see Kelsara running around and insta-gibbing people at full speed: tanks kiting, ping pong taunting the boss, Snipers rolling for immunity to give the team 1 second more DPS time, Maras and Juggs face tanking with UR and SR... that's a rush! lol

 

 

You can even have 2 Sin tanks with 4 ranged DPS kiting enraged Kelsara by standing in far edges of the room:

Single taunt kelsara, shroud for 5 seconds, single taunt back to the other side of the room, shroud for 5 seconds, other tank runs close for AoE taunt range and sprints away. Uses Phaswalk to kite some more, other tank does the same (aoe taunt - > sprint -> phase walk) and after that chaos is done, pop deflection and hope the boss dies. lol.

 

 

Is that a good way to build a boss encounter at all? At a glance it looks appealling at least to me.. ensures that even if you've killed the boss 10 times, your latest attempt is ~always as thrilling as your first one (well after BiS probably not so much but there's still a chance at wiping 75 gear if you don't "play" it right.

Edited June 19, 2013 by paowee

[odawgg]

Hmm.. to be honest it's quite satisfying killing a boss through enrage. It definitely adds more fun to the fight. Maybe instead of a set timer we can have bosses that auto-enrage at X% health? (NiM only ofc) I know it exists in tantrum tfb but that fight is stationary where you sit on platforms and hope RNG is in your favor. At least with a Council type of fight, you see Kelsara running around and insta-gibbing people at full speed: tanks kiting, using ping pong taunts, Snipers rolling for immunity to give the team 1 second more DPS uptime, Maras and Juggs face tanking with UR and SR... that's a rush! lol

 

Is that a good way to build a boss encounter at all? At a glance it looks appealling at least to me.. ensures that even if you've killed the boss 10 times, your latest attempt is ~always as thrilling as your first one (well after BiS probably not so much but there's still a chance at wiping 75 gear if you don't "play" it right.

 

This is an interesting idea, but you're almost sure to have at least a couple deaths if it's enraging at a percentage...that would make it hard to get the "lived through" achievement I'd be down for soft enrages though.

[odawgg]

So, now we've seen 4 guilds clear this so far. I've seen merc/op/sorc healers, I've seen Jugg/PT/Assassin Tanks, I've seen sniper/mara/jugg/merc/sorc dps compositions. Only thing missing is PT/Assassin/op dps, all of which btw I believe can be part of the group. I know that top AP PT/Assassins/Operatives can all parse quite high in operations. Edited June 19, 2013 by odawgg

[Avlantia]

I'm always amused by the arguement of 'ideal' classes for the job.

 

My experience, from the 100 odd wipes I had with dilih before the servers decided to regularly boot me was this:

It's not about the class it's about the player.

 

Asa was there on our 6% wipe... as dps. So dont tell me sorc dps doesn't cut it because he doesn't have enough. He had plenty. Not to mention the fact that sorcs can bubble doom. So you dont even have to STOP dpsing when you get it (unlike marauders, juggys, mercs, operatives, sins etc). Snipers are the same deal. You call them fotm, i call them convenient composition.

 

And while everyone is hating on Lace's juggy dps I dont think i should have to point out the sheer skill he has as a player greatly outweighs the fact that his class is percieved as 'not optimal dps'.

 

There is so much positioning, repositioning, running for your life, popping defensive cooldowns and having minor heart attacks every 2s in that fight that your dummy parses mean completely f-a. If you asked Syrra how often he got a full merc rotation off before having to move i bet he could probably count them on his fingers. And i imagine if you asked Maloney and Emi the amount of times they had series of shots or whatever other snipery stuff is required (you can tell my sniper is not 55 huh) interrupted by the necessity to roll or move they'd run out of fingers and toes.

 

If you've made the effort with gearing up your raid group you will clear this. With dedication, time, and understanding of the fight, no matter who you put in there. It took us 2 days to reliably reach p3. And even then half the time it felt like luck of the draw. If you cant accept the fact that sometimes you are going to get unlucky and wipe... or that the fight will take dedication and the ultimate concentration on -every- raid member's behalf the I wouldn't recommend hitting your head on the wall repeatedly. (You're just losing brain cells for no reason).

[Gyronamics]

Pretty sure I've seen a VG dps setting Kelsara on fire with Severity, didn't see a channel so possibly a straight Assault VG not a Hybrid.

 

It's just Assassins, Operatives and the weak PVE specs for every other class which haven't been used in a clear yet.

[odawgg]

Yup ^ and I would argue that when you go into a nightmare op, you should be versatile enough with ur specs to switch to the one that's highest for a given fight. We had a carnage mara say eff it and went annhi to complete it cuz he didn't want to deal with the RNG inconsistencies Edited June 19, 2013 by odawgg

[Ansalem]

the RNG on this fight kills me still. Last night we had a few attempts in a row where I got doomed 3X in a row, then withered a bunch in a row, then targetted with leash a ton. Then it kept happening to 1 of our melee dps. Just once I would like to get that perfect RNG that hits the people that can avoid it and continue dpsing steadily.

[Grimsblood]

Pretty sure I've seen a VG dps setting Kelsara on fire with Severity, didn't see a channel so possibly a straight Assault VG not a Hybrid.

 

It's just Assassins, Operatives and the weak PVE specs for every other class which haven't been used in a clear yet.

 

We have two Vanguards that run with us. One of them has not been able to be available for the last two weeks. However, they both run a Hybrid build and for certain fights a full Assault.

[odawgg]

the RNG on this fight kills me still. Last night we had a few attempts in a row where I got doomed 3X in a row, then withered a bunch in a row, then targetted with leash a ton. Then it kept happening to 1 of our melee dps. Just once I would like to get that perfect RNG that hits the people that can avoid it and continue dpsing steadily.

 

There's some tricks you can use as a merc to avoid "some" of this:

 

Doom: You have A LOT of time to clear your stacks. inch your way around the room picking them up during GCDs of instants, like HSM/Rail/Rapid Shots....also double power surge for TMs. When you only have 1 or 2 left, and ur running out of time, Hydraulic override, pick the last ones up with minimal downtime. I can usually clear all my stacks without losing any GCDs, maybe 1.

 

Edit: But I'll add that it's better you get doom than a MM sniper or melee...first of all, our dps isn't gonna be as high as there's so it's better we get it, second, we are ranged and have more instants than an MM sniper (however they can roll). I'll also add that our mara's were able to clear doom while losing zero or very few GCDs after practice.

 

Wither: This shouldn't actually affect ur dps, healers need to be on it...I might throw a double power surge Raoid Scan if I feel it could save the attempt and healers are behind.

 

Leash/targeted for death: Stay in close range of boss, when the knockback is coming, pop hydraulic overrides to avoid the knockback...doesn't require a GCD. You won't be targeted unless ur at range or nobody else is at range. Best for healers to get this.

 

This fight is the ultimate crash course on each person's class. You will become sooooo much better as a player after wiping to this over and over and over and.....but you can't for one second think you're doing everything right...cuz there's always something u can do more efficiently

Edited June 19, 2013 by odawgg

[Ansalem]

trust me Ive tried:P The attempt where I got 3 dooms in a row followed by I think it was 2 withers and a leash broke my heart. I don't think Ive gotten frustrated like that ever when playing an mmo. I do love this fight though I wish they would shorten that enrage. Even the guilds downing it are hitting enrage with 8-10% left and having to bounce kill kel while ignoring the last set of adds cept for the dot caster. I pray for the sorcs to get Doom everytime:P still able to crank good dps on the fight but I know I can get better. Looks like I wont get to try until sunday though. Damned RL schedules screwing up raid times this week.

[odawgg]

trust me Ive tried:P The attempt where I got 3 dooms in a row followed by I think it was 2 withers and a leash broke my heart. I don't think Ive gotten frustrated like that ever when playing an mmo.

 

Roll with them punches you must....yeees :yoda:

 

Edit: dammit, why didn't that work

Edited June 19, 2013 by odawgg

[paowee]

I got what i think was 4 dooms in a row P2->P3 in one attempt. :| Is that even possible lol Edited June 19, 2013 by paowee