Addons in Swtor

[Morgani]

The problem I have is....I've been in a number of groups where I'm told I don't have enough dps, but without an addon, like recount, I have no idea what my dps is, and I often wonder how the people complaining know. I would like to have something like recount so that I can see what my dps is, and work to improve it. As it is, I have no idea if I'm doing well, or not. maybe a different rotation would net better results, but...how am I to know?

I know I do fine in questing, but it is really annoying to be told I need to do better in instances, and not know how to address it.

As for healing, I really miss the addon I'm used to in WoW, but, I have to admit, I'm able to heal just fine without it. It's just a lot less hectic with it.

 

MOX and Torparse are the two most common combat parsers SWTOR players use to see their damage. But no one can see your current damage unless you are both signed into the same parse. The people in your groups are likely making gross underestimates of you based on your hit points and the level of your mods.

 

If you are really interested in improving, go to your class forums and do some reading and try one of the above combat parsers on a target dummy. Those are found on the Gav Daragon, the floor that doesn't have the raid portals.

 

On topic, I'm very appreciative that SWTOR doesn't have a billion player made mods. There are things I wish Bioware would add (Guild calendars, better GTN interface) and I believe eventually they will get around to it.

[Bomyne]

It would be nice. I'm not sure how much more of that lame inventory system TOR has I can take... I want to convert Arkinventory to TOR.

[drhay]

As a healer, I'm still very saddened by the UI. In that sense, I'd like to see addons simply because someone would do a much, much better job than Bioware has. Almost nothing has changed since launch, and it's very frustrating.

 

Beyond that, I'd personally like auction and crafting addons of various kinds, but I'm doing fine without them.

 

Just wish they'd improve HoT and debuff tracking, and allow mouseover casting. That's the only addon functionality I really miss.

[GuruVII]

Just wish they'd improve HoT and debuff tracking, and allow mouseover casting. That's the only addon functionality I really miss.

So basically you miss the computer healing for you and ensure that you outperform every other healer that is not using such addons, no matter the skill.

That is one of the reasons why we don't want addons.

Edited August 11, 2013 by GuruVII

[Desiirea]

So basically you miss the computer healing for you and ensure that you outperform every other healer that is not using such addons, no matter the skill.

That is one of the reasons why we don't want addons.

 

LOL asking to have the UI show in an easily seeable manner what hots/debuffs are rolling on people in the raid frames is hardly asking for the game to decide which heals to cast when, and do it for you.

 

Personally, I would love to have party member's companions included on the raid frames. Many healers use raid frames when in a party setting as well. There is nothing more annoying then having to try to refocus target other peoples companions when you are playing in groups of 2-3 people every single time they mount or use rocket boots just because I would like to keep my UI the same for both party and raid healing.

 

Edit: For the record I would prefer addon's not be added to the game. I would rather bioware just continue to improve the UI so we don't need them. The only other UI function I really would love to have is ability to move the raid warnings down on the screen and maybe change the color.

Edited August 11, 2013 by Desiirea

[chuixupu]

LOL asking to have the UI show in an easily seeable manner what hots/debuffs are rolling on people in the raid frames is hardly asking for the game to decide which heals to cast when, and do it for you.

 

Personally, I would love to have party member's companions included on the raid frames. Many healers use raid frames when in a party setting as well. There is nothing more annoying then having to try to refocus target other peoples companions when you are playing in groups of 2-3 people every single time they mount or use rocket boots just because I would like to keep my UI the same for both party and raid healing.

 

This and this. And having class colors for health bars.

 

Seriously, guys, having some additional tracking tools that are standard in most other games does not equal the game healing for you, why would you even think that.

[Klarick]

I really hope not. Even though there are certain addons that would be nice, it would eventually lead to those addons that turn a game into a job. Turn the playerbase into a bunch of Wow-minded elitist jerks, and this game just doesnt need them. Nor did the games that pioneered MMOs in the days of lore. No, WoW would not even earn a mention in the discussion of MMOs that built the foundation for all others that would come later.

 

IMO, the risk to allowing Addons is far greater than any benefit that could be gained.

 

The darkside veery powwerful it is ........

[TechbotAlpha]

I know that I'd like them to allow whatever it is that lets people get in-game data easily. i.e. the sort of stuff you'd need to have any hope in hell of making a proper, complete wiki.]

 

Do you have ANY idea how frustrating it is for a new player to come into a game, go "Ok, I'm wondering about X, Y or Z, I don't know and I don't fancy chancing my luck on the forums, so I'll just check the wiki......Oh. Right. Nevermind THAT then..."

 

Whether it's trying to find what drops you get from a Flashpoint or what certain items look like and how to get them, what level you unlock crafting schematics or which dialogue options yield what, trying to find this sort of thing right now is a goddamn chore. I realise I should 'just play the game already'. I am. I have every intention of doing so and enjoying it. But I'd like to know things for non-essential things like crafting, or where I can get a helmet for my BH/Trooper that looks like something I could stand wearing. The total lack of a completed wiki with a decent layout is a bane to that goal. And pardon me for not wanting to trawl through the umpteen different dead wrecks that litter the internet. Other games can manage it, I don't see why TOR can't...IF they'd allow the goddamn data mining. Why is that such a bad thing?

Talk about shafting the playerbase...

[Virus_Bot]

No

 

*filler text to complete minimum post requirements*

[GuruVII]

This and this. And having class colors for health bars.

 

Seriously, guys, having some additional tracking tools that are standard in most other games does not equal the game healing for you, why would you even think that.

Additional tracking tools? Oh you mean like a little coloured dot by the in each character's raidframe when they take aggro?

That little coloured dot was the difference between Guru VII being almost being kicked out of the guild due to low performance (little effective healing, a lot of overhealing (total healing was still good)) and Guru VII being second on the healing charts (beaten by another Paladin, whose gear and skill surpassed my own). That is the effects of addons and that is why people are forced to use them after they are implemented, at least, if they wish to compete with people that have them.

Edited August 11, 2013 by GuruVII

[Desiirea]

Additional tracking tools? Oh you mean like a little coloured dot by the in each character's raidframe when they take aggro?

That little coloured dot was the difference between Guru VII being almost being kicked out of the guild due to low performance (little effective healing, a lot of overhealing (total healing was still good)) and Guru VII being second on the healing charts (beaten by another Paladin, whose gear and skill surpassed my own). That is the effects of addons and that is why people are forced to use them after they are implemented, at least, if they wish to compete with people that have them.

 

All Guru VII had to do was focus target the boss and have Target of focus target enabled and he would have the same information. The little red dot had nothing to do with it... it was just the Guru VII turned on the red dot instead of focus target's target. Either solution would of been just as effective. The same information was always there. He just finally chose to access it and use it. It didn't HEAL for him.

 

But I fail to see what that has to do with the ability to be able to see hots/debuffs more easily on raid frames in the current UI and how that magically means the computer is now healing for you.

[GuruVII]

Which did work adequately, when in a boss fight with a single target.

But the difference is that the little red dot... did the focus target of target for everything, something a player could not on his/her/its own. But then again back then we had 25 man raids, with many more tanks and adds in bossfights more eager to switch target to something high damaging and squishy, like a mage.

 

If I wanted to keep up, back then I had to use addons. For the little red dot, that told me when someone took agrro from a mob or add or boss I didn't have on target of focus target, to decursive (I think that was the name) which I needed, if I wanted to remove debuffs in a time acceptable to the guild.

In the end I was no longer playing the game, I was more or less following instructions on my screen, my only real task, making sure I wasn't standing in fire or something like that (but at that point I switched I was dps, where an addon told me of the optimal skill to use).

 

But I fail to see what that has to do with the ability to be able to see hots/debuffs more easily on raid frames in the current UI and how that magically means the computer is now healing for you.

You forgot to say mouseover healing, which was the only reason I made that statement and why wouldn't I have made it... you quite literally have to do one less click, because the computers does it for you.

 

My post also wasn't pointed at seeing hots/debuffs more easily on the raid frames, but tracking tools in general and how they do things a player could not on their own, once again letting the computer do things that would be impossible for a human.

 

Was Bioware to implement these things. Sure no problem, since it would mean the content will be designed with these things in mind and game updates wouldn't make every player a cripple.

[MindSpore]

Said it before, will say it again. If the Swtor devs have decided they will be handling most of the features for the UI, then they need to do it. When the UI editor was released they said this is just the begining, and future updates with useful features the community wants would follow, since then there has been ZERO additional features added.

 

Examples

 

Better tracking of hots/dots/debuffs/buffs something a long the lines of dotimer.

Additional options for hots.dots/debuffs/buffs, ability to filter it all to fit your needs.

 

-AND PLEASE allow it to be seperated from the Unitframe.

 

Click to cast functionality for the group/raid frame

Ability to save your gear/spec loadouts.

More options for appearance, unitframes/castbar, more options for simple UI looks (get rid of portraits)

 

These things have repeatedly been brought up, and yet no upgrades have been implemented.

 

Never expected it all to be implemented at the same time, but at least expected features to be added patch to patch. Would really love some Dev feedback on this.

Edited August 12, 2013 by MindSpore

[Desiirea]

You forgot to say mouseover healing, which was the only reason I made that statement and why wouldn't I have made it... you quite literally have to do one less click, because the computers does it for you.

 

Funny thing I never used decursive in WoW. I just cleansed manually and never had a problem. I did 25 man raids just fine.. But it doesn't even matter as this isn't WoW.

 

If you look back at my original post on this thread i edited in right after posting that I'm not advocating addons be put in game, in fact I do not want them to be. What I had a problem with is you attacking someone's post asking for actual quality of life improvements to a UI and and saying they "missed the computer healing for you". >.<

 

Having hots/debuffs on raidframes or mouseover casting does not heal for the player. They still have to react to mechanics of the fight while making split second choices on how to triage and cast the correct heals/cleanses on the appropriate players at the right time while managing their resources.

 

Mouseover healing also is not 'the computer healing for you". You still have to take your mouse and hover over that persons name and then pick the correct ability and still click to use the right ability for that moment/situation. All it does is not force you to manually click on that persons name and then click again before using a particular ability.

 

I would like to see DPS/tanks have to retarget their targets every 1.5 to 3 seconds by manually clicking on it every time they want to use a different ability and then click again to execute it. Because they do not have to does that mean the computer is playing the game for them? NO. And boy would there (rightly) be an uproar if they had to!

 

Mouseover casting does not change which abilities would be used, on which targets and in what order/situation and the thought procces that goes into that at all. It simply prevents carpal tunnel.

 

It's something bioware should definately add to the current UI. Addons shouldn't be needed.

Edited August 12, 2013 by Desiirea

[TheSkate]

Essentially, linking up to the raid without requiring a generated key.

 

edit: also, have to run in windowed mode in order to have pop-outs.

 

So you want to be able to brag about your DPS? Or require everyone in the raid to post their DPS so you can ***** about another players DPS? If not then an offline meter is just fine.

 

Add-ons are the devil.

They are not needed and should not be allowed.

[GuruVII]

Funny thing I never used decursive in WoW. I just cleansed manually and never had a problem. I did 25 man raids just fine.. But it doesn't even matter as this isn't WoW.

I didn't use it for a while either, but others were and I just did roughly 3-5 times less decursing then other guild members, then again that isn't very surprising, considering that in vanilla wow, you just had to click on the addon, which targeted the afflicted player, used cleansed and retargeted your old target, opposed to me, who first had to spot it, then click the target, then cleanse and then go back to healing. But then I imagine mouseover healing made made cleansing/decursing easier.

 

And I stand by what I said, mouseover healing... that is computer healing for you... or at least doing part of the healing for you, since you no longer have to target the player. You let the computer do it for you.

 

I would like to see DPS/tanks have to retarget their targets every 1.5 to 3 seconds by manually clicking on it every time they want to use a different ability and then click again to execute it. Because they do not have to does that mean the computer is playing the game for them? NO. And boy would there (rightly) be an uproar if they had to!

I would like to see healers have to retarget their targets every time they want to use a different ability. Because certainly that isn't the case now. Also, the computer isn't playing for the dps, it isn't clicking a button for them, so doing one of their task for me. I guess the closest thing is tabbing through targets, but then again tanks and dps don't have a nifty unit frame containing all attackable mobs and mouse click a target in nature is quite clumsy in TOR.

 

Mouseover casting does not change which abilities would be used, on which targets and in what order/situation and the thought procces that goes into that at all. It simply prevents carpal tunnel.

No, it simply makes the computer do part of the work and far more efficiently then a player ever could (since clicking to target takes time and targeting via mouseover healing doesn't).

 

 

I'm all for computer assistance in game, but not when it comes to combat, because that is not QOL, that is changing game mechanics.

Edited August 12, 2013 by GuruVII

[TheSkate]

It cracks me up how all the bad players are just like "why cant you just let me be bad and get carried in raids so I can afk/suck/mouth breathe." If you dont want addons create a no add on raiding guild, problem solved. GIVE US DAMAGE METERS

 

It cracks me up how some people without talent or skill need a damage meter so they can stand in fire/acid/exploding stuff/etc. to max their DPS, top the list and scream at the healer for not keeping them alive while they stood in the bad stuff. If you want addons go play a game that has them.

[MindSpore]

No, it simply makes the computer do part of the work and far more efficiently then a player ever could (since clicking to target takes time and targeting via mouseover healing doesn't).

 

 

I'm all for computer assistance in game, but not when it comes to combat, because that is not QOL, that is changing game mechanics.

 

I suppose the only real way will know is if the devs actually comment on things, maybe we need a player rep for UI questions....

 

Devs if you read this, please give us some information on your future plans for the UI editor. If 3rd party addons are out of the question (for the most part) than what do you have in store for us?

[Brittaany_Banks]

Anyone remember afk farming in swg by making your character dance around? That was funny seeing ppl dancing then oh! need to dig! Then dance again. Yeah macros are great

 

When it comes to macros I think we need to ask ourselves "how much harm could it do?". I don't think it would do that much harm. To be honest with you I can not see a lot of application for it in this game.

[Desiirea]

No, it simply makes the computer do part of the work and far more efficiently then a player ever could (since clicking to target takes time and targeting via mouseover healing doesn't).

 

I would accept this argument if there weren't global cooldowns in this game. Quite long ones. And decent.. i'm not even going to say good healers.. just decent have no problem making that .1 second target click inside the GCDs. In this game it's not going to allow faster casting of abilities since you still have to sit there waiting for the GCD to wear off. The GCD is the inhibitor to how fast you can use your abilities, not click target vs mouseover healing.

[GuruVII]

Well, the 0.1 sec would make a difference and you might have some respite as a healer, but I think that is negileble as such, I concede that you are in fact right. When thinking on the topic and even doing some basic math (it helps, if you can show how better the player that the computer is playing for him is because of it ) in my head, I did fail to account GCDs, which makes my argument moot, making this a QOL.

Though I still don't like the idea, I really have a bad experience with automation in combat.

[Desiirea]

*bows respectfully* I completely understand your concerns. One of the reasons I totally agree with it being kept in the game UI rather then just allowing free for all with outside folks making addons.

[JuntaKast]

Not sure if someone else already said but it needs to be said again and again, no DUAL SPEC EVER! And absolutely under no circumstances should their ever be macros or addons. Maybe, just maybe I could partially stomach something to swap gear but even then I see that opening the "can of worms" (or you know insert your own brand of Star Wards related analogy here.)

[Knewt]

The only add on we need and one Bioware would probably approve of is a My Roleplay add on. It's easy to use and it doesn't turn good people into number jerkwads.

Good players turn into numbers jerkwads for lots of reasons...the existence of add-ons is not one of those reasons.

[GalacticKegger]

Addons are a huge part of WoW because advanced gameplay pretty much relies on them. Remove them from WoW so it has to be played purely on its merits and end game drops anchor. No HealBot ... no DBM ... no Omen ... no Recount ... no chance.

 

I think mod advancement dictated the design of WoW's boss fight mechanics starting from the original Naxx when it was located in the Eastern Plaguelands. Players who didn't use them eventually found themselves on the outside of raid groups looking in. Which is why an overwhelming number of raiders now use them ... they're excluded if they don't.

 

A big reason imho why BW chose not to unzip their API flies to the modding world was to keep progression emphasis squarely on a player's skill and not their ability to pimp out a 3rd party accessory. The downside for me: no API access means no TORHeroes for personalized min/max study and no fully stocked TORhead for drop planning.

Edited October 16, 2013 by GalacticKegger