DharmaPolice Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 DPS with taunts aren't tanks. Anyway, in pugs it's quite rare to see Vanguards/Shadows/Guardians use taunts to anything like their full capability and it's quite common to see 0 protection scores for 1-2 such players in every warzone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mksaccount Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 I found out why there is such an imbalance in PvP. It's the TANKS. Tanks are pretty tough in current PVP... However, in a warzone without a tank, a good healer can make or break the team. In a warzone without a healer, a good tank will get squashed like a slightly beefier bug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeadDogBarking Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 I sincerely don't know what game the "healing is too strong" crowd is playing. I half wonder (no troll or insult intended) whether the dps is just subpar on some of the servers, because on the ones I play on and watch survigal and kills are even. Good healers and tanks will keep their team up, but good dps will bring people down even through that. It is not good but mediocre playing in the ranks that make the difference. So what classes play best at that level makes the biggest difference in a random group. I dont think it is tanks or heals specifically, but a shift with many little changes that is seen most dramatically in the high heals. Getting off topic so will leave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L-RANDLE Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 No one wants to try your spec because it's bad. You're not a tank, you're a DPS in tank stance guarding someone only for protection numbers because it's probably harder to heal you than it is to just heal themselves. You put out 200-300k more damage a match than a geared and specced tank but you and your "Guardee" are like 5 times easier to kill because you don't have the CC tanks have or the extra mitigation from gear. You're failing to grasp the idea of why a tank is called a TANK; I'll give you a clue though, it's not because they have 6k Dispatches. Lol you got issues bro..... Like I said its a spec/gear/stance/playstyle.... You just to set in you derder, I'm a tank to even know.... I played full spec and tank geared, have you tried mine? And yeas 300k more damage in a 2.0 built on OP heals could determine taking a node , especially if a healer is not around... So let's review. I have all the tank CDs, I have all the tank specs worth having, I guard people 100% of the time, and I peel.. so what else do I need to do to qualify to be a tank oh great one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DimeStax Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 (edited) Lol you got issues bro..... Like I said its a spec/gear/stance/playstyle.... You just to set in you derder, I'm a tank to even know.... I played full spec and tank geared, have you tried mine? And yeas 300k more damage in a 2.0 built on OP heals could determine taking a node , especially if a healer is not around... So let's review. I have all the tank CDs, I have all the tank specs worth having, I guard people 100% of the time, and I peel.. so what else do I need to do to qualify to be a tank oh great one? So you have a FREE spammable AoE 10 second snare, two 4 second stuns without channeling, your Force Leap's cooldown reduces when you take damage, an offensive ability that reduces incoming damage by 4%, 30 seconds reduced cooldown on your Warding Call, 2 second longer duration on your Saber Reflect, you bubble your teammates when you AoE taunt, and you have increased movement speed when the person you're guarding takes damage? Because every one of those abilities you don't have reduces your ability to keep you or your Guardee alive, and those are your ONLY two jobs as a tank. People will laugh at your 6k dispatches in RWZs as they destroy you and your teammates with focus fire. Your team will lose every time but at least you put up 200k more damage and your numbers look good right? That's PuG WZ Rambo logic for you at it's finest. In RWZs your team doesn't care how much damage you do. They want you to break up the enemy teams focus fire, keep your teammates alive, keep yourself alive, and break caps. That's it. Upper level PvP. Doesn't. Give. Two. Stuffs. About. Your. 6k. Dispatches. Period. Get it? Edited May 30, 2013 by DimeStax Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L-RANDLE Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 So you have a FREE spammable AoE 10 second snare, two 4 second stuns without channeling, your Force Leap's cooldown reduces when you take damage, an offensive ability that reduces incoming damage by 4%, 30 seconds reduced cooldown on your Warding Call, 2 second longer duration on your Saber Reflect, you bubble your teammates when you AoE taunt, and you have increased movement speed when the person you're guarding takes damage? Because every one of those abilities you don't have reduces your ability to keep you or your Guardee alive, and those are your ONLY two jobs as a tank. People will laugh at your 6k dispatches in RWZs as they destroy you and your teammates with focus fire. Your team will lose every time but at least you put up 200k more damage and your numbers look good right? That's PuG WZ Rambo logic for you at it's finest. In RWZs your team doesn't care how much damage you do. They want you to break up the enemy teams focus fire, keep your teammates alive, keep yourself alive, and break caps. That's it. Upper level PvP. Doesn't. Give. Two. Stuffs. About. Your. 6k. Dispatches. Period. Get it? And I have 75% of the stuff you mentioned. Lol dude , you really need to think outside the box. He is one for you... Decrease CD on Saber Ward..... How many more Saber Wards do you get per WZ versus what I get? I could go on, but trust me getting maybe 25% more effectiveness from full spec and gear is not going to make up for DPS loss in a heal heavy live build... It's a pretty simple concept... It's an entire build. Spec, gear, playstyle. If you want to know it in full detail then ill tell you but you sound like you are too baroque minded to even consider it, let alone try it... My healers for Ranked have no problem with what I run and most are intrigued enough to ask me about it.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DimeStax Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 (edited) You play on Bastion right? What guild are you in? Cause I'm pretty sure they're on RWZ farm status if you're tanking for them in that build. Edited May 30, 2013 by DimeStax Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcgregorya Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 And I have 75% of the stuff you mentioned. Lol dude , you really need to think outside the box. He is one for you... Decrease CD on Saber Ward..... How many more Saber Wards do you get per WZ versus what I get? I could go on, but trust me getting maybe 25% more effectiveness from full spec and gear is not going to make up for DPS loss in a heal heavy live build... It's a pretty simple concept... It's an entire build. Spec, gear, playstyle. If you want to know it in full detail then ill tell you but you sound like you are too baroque minded to even consider it, let alone try it... My healers for Ranked have no problem with what I run and most are intrigued enough to ask me about it.... I give up, what's your build? Made me do a forum search and everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenXCub Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 clever girl .. ROFL! love that form Jurassic park! I've always wondered why the Clever Girl meme caught on from Jurassic Park. Arnold Schwarzenegger says it in Total Recall which came out 3 years prior. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodcharged Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 Not sure if trolling... First off, you cannot guard as smash spec. You have to be in soresu (tank stance) to guard, and that cripples your damage. Was unaware that 7k+ smashes while in tank stance was crippling...oh wait But then again no matter what all the ******* playing the one button spec will reply back trying to defend there spec. Then again anyone who thinks this game will ever have a competitive PVP scene has other issues seeing as clickers and s keyers can get 2.5+k ranking fairly easily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L-RANDLE Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 (edited) I give up, what's your build? Made me do a forum search and everything. 20/9/17 All the details would take awhile, but let me know if you want more.... like I said in the other thread, I'm a battle tank, with a 125mm gun, instead of a heavy tank with a 40mm gun. The adds for full spec and gear don't outweigh the DPS loss in a heal heavy WZ for a multitude of reasons.... As a person PM'd me about this topic said, in relation to the current build on live servers (paraphrase), "If you are not bringing credible DPS to the table, you might as well bring a healer." Not truer words have been spoken..... Edited May 31, 2013 by L-RANDLE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obirayy Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 (edited) This thread has turned into a mess over some dude thinking that jugg tanks were OP. they just got nerfed lol P.s I'm not defending guardians, I just think that this thread started from assumptions and not from experience. The things he stated aren't put in practically to a warzone and he just states what might be possible to do Edited May 31, 2013 by Obirayy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBRGhostRider Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 (edited) Was unaware that 7k+ smashes while in tank stance was crippling...oh wait 7k+ smashes in tank spec and stance? What are you smoking bro? But then again no matter what all the ******* playing the one button spec will reply back trying to defend there spec How do you pvp tank, in tank stance, going up full tank tree, and wearing tank gear, and using only one ability? Here's an idea. Make up your damn mind. Do you want to QQ about tanks, or do you want to QQ about rage dps? Then we can all talk about it. Edited May 31, 2013 by CBRGhostRider Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxmob Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 tank mitigation/guards certainly contribute, but have you noticed how many heals there are in WZs now? regs are absolutely flooded with them. I find that more annoying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tootoofun Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 You are not correct BUT I understand why you think that. Its because HEALING is OP atm and with a bunch of high health and armor tankish players running around the healers heal bigger and have more HP pool to work with. Seems like they never die. I understand your thoughts on this but its the healing not the tanks. Also tanks shields now mitigate more kinds of damage so they seem tankier, that plus the healing = I know where you are coming from. Its a combo, but tanks on their own are still weaksauce. ********...tanks (in PvP not Pve for threat generation) need their damage signifigantly reduced ir a curve added that as their defence go up their dps goes down...or a different resilience strat for tanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DimeStax Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 20/9/17 As a person PM'd me about this topic said, in relation to the current build on live servers (paraphrase), "If you are not bringing credible DPS to the table, you might as well bring a healer." Not truer words have been spoken..... /Facepalm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcgregorya Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 (edited) 20/9/17 All the details would take awhile, but let me know if you want more.... like I said in the other thread, I'm a battle tank, with a 125mm gun, instead of a heavy tank with a 40mm gun. The adds for full spec and gear don't outweigh the DPS loss in a heal heavy WZ for a multitude of reasons.... As a person PM'd me about this topic said, in relation to the current build on live servers (paraphrase), "If you are not bringing credible DPS to the table, you might as well bring a healer." Not truer words have been spoken..... I'm guessing something like this? http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#101GrRbdzMZcrMZfbbkrM.3 with DPS gear not tank gear in Soresu form? TBH I'd probably do something more like 23/6/17. Backhand is so good. Edited May 31, 2013 by dcgregorya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kweassa Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 You are not correct BUT I understand why you think that. Its because HEALING is OP atm and with a bunch of high health and armor tankish players running around the healers heal bigger and have more HP pool to work with. Seems like they never die. I understand your thoughts on this but its the healing not the tanks. Also tanks shields now mitigate more kinds of damage so they seem tankier, that plus the healing = I know where you are coming from. Its a combo, but tanks on their own are still weaksauce. Correction. Healing is not OP. It's the players who see healing as a problem, which, their brains are UP(underpowered). Can't help it if scrubs see the better players as "OP" *shrug* -- if anything, its a compliment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcgregorya Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 (edited) Correction. Healing is not OP. It's the players who see healing as a problem, which, their brains are UP(underpowered). Can't help it if scrubs see the better players as "OP" *shrug* -- if anything, its a compliment. Clearly my skill doubles when I'm playing a scoundrel heal compared to a scoundrel DPS - that's why I can heal 1mil per game when I typically put out 500k per game as scrapper. Herp derp. You guys lost all your credibility when you started posting stuff in the other threads about how balanced PVP involves no one dying, when clearly every map is built around the concept of respawn timers being part of the key divergence factor between teams having success or failing. Edited May 31, 2013 by dcgregorya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kweassa Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 Clearly my skill doubles when I'm playing a scoundrel heal compared to a scoundrel DPS - that's why I can heal 1mil per game when I typically put out 500k per game as scrapper. Naw. You've just never really met people who could make your 1mil healing disappear into thin air. Herp derp. You guys lost all your credibility when you started posting stuff in the other threads about how balanced PVP involves no one dying, when clearly every map is built around the concept of respawn timers being part of the key divergence factor between teams having success or failing. Naw. What we said was that in a team conflict where both teams are well prepared in both defense and offense, it is only natural to expect that the fight runs epic and long -- as opposed to how some dorks just feel this need to see every/any healer they see in front of them melt within their 1st rotation of attacks. Surely, you've met teams that are not up to your standards, with roughly the same composition as your own. Do they manage to fight so long? Unlikely, at least in my experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Altheran Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 ********...tanks (in PvP not Pve for threat generation) need their damage signifigantly reduced ir a curve added that as their defence go up their dps goes down...or a different resilience strat for tanks. They have already have this, it's called "not stacking any offensive stat". Even a healer has a better DPS than them because they have much more main stat and power (not even taking into account the tanks who have a damage malus on their stance). In many games, healers have the same crappy DPS than tanks. Here only tanks have crap DPS. So please, don't start saying they have too much DPS when they're already the ones with the lowest. By the way, tanks' DPS may be a bit respectable in this game, but in comparison, it's probably one of the games with the least survivable tanks. Their defense is not so high, so I think that's normal they do not stike like a wet noodle either (even if it's already low) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vimm Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 Did this thread start out as a smash QQ than full on morph into a tank QQ...clever girl. Nerf Vengeance! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arutar Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 I'm not too savvy with the Jugg/Guardian skill tree, Yes, you are obviously not. Also, you do you seem to have much of a clue about tanking in general. Yet still you claim to "have found out" the shocking truth about tanks. The "truth", that the unbalance in pvp is not caused by e.g. 10k+crits/ too big heals / premades vs. pugs or any other OP flavour of the month. No, it is because of TANKS. At least you are original, I give you that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlrikFassbauer Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 Did this thread start out as a smash QQ than full on morph into a tank QQ...clever girl. The original poster is a girl ? Sure on that ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raansu Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 Tanking plus the current over tuned healing is a bit of a broken combination right now. Taunts needs to be locked to tank spec and guard needs to be lowered to 25%. If guard stays the same then either healing needs to be reduced or trauma needs to be increased. Either way, something needs to change because the current balance of heals/tanks is just stupid and the constant stalemates are getting boring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts