ETA on Advanced Class change?

[LordArtemis]

For me personally AC is a class and was intended that way....but for me it doesn't feel like a class. It feels like a cheap knock off of a class.

 

Now, the fact...FACT....that it doesn't feel like a class to me means next to nothing naturally. But with respect to understanding why this discussion exists, why devs might say "we will likely see that eventually" (may not be verbatim) is due to what I consider poor design, or more accurately poor implementation of their original intent as I see it.

 

Had they provided a few unique quests after level 10, or simply had you choose your AC at character creation (even if you didn't start allocating points until level 10) I think AC would have more meaning....it would then FEEL like a class instead of just a spec gate to me anyway.

[Mad_yojik]

I dont see the point in in not allowing us to reroll AC, especially if that is paid (and thus brings the game its needed revenue). What bad it does? From the storyline perspective - absolutely nothing, as both ACs have 100% same content. It can be done without the breaking in-game logic, like some sort of "re-training certificate".

 

If I want to see other side of the class (or I'm not satisfied with my AC) - I have to do all the same quests again (or roll the "other faction", which sucks IMO... 'cause I want to help my ingame friends, not to fight 'em)... Its boring enough to roll the alt of other basic class for the same faction (with all the same planetary quests). It will even bring the benefits of "moar tanks/heals" at least for the pre-55, and lvl-55 entry-level content (as for 55-HMs I think there is a problem with getting geared all over again). I dont see why a lot of people oppose this idea so badly.

Edited November 24, 2013 by Mad_yojik

[Andryah]

It will be much more convenient if I can just swap ACs whenever the next FOTM comes around.

 

I'm not picking on Anzel here, just using his comment as context for an actual issue.

 

Do we really want people wholesale changing ACs to follow the perceived FOTM in an MMO? Really? It will turn the game into 90% FOTM game play, with no consequences for time and effort invested to level up a class. Great.. so on any given month.. the entire game will be saturated with whatever players "think" is the current FOTM. Yeah.. that will really help with data gathering and adjustments by the devs on class abilities.

Edited November 24, 2013 by Andryah

[Spatology]

I'm not picking on Anzel here, just using his comment as context for an actual issue.

 

Do we really want people wholesale changing ACs to follow the perceived FOTM in an MMO? Really? It will turn the game into 90% FOTM game play, with no consequences for time and effort invested to level up a class. Great.. so on any given month.. the entire game will be saturated with whatever players "think" is the current FOTM. Yeah.. that will really help with data gathering and adjustments by the devs on class abilities.

 

I see the issue in only two possible eventualities:

 

-This will never happen and shouldnt.

 

-If implemented this is a function that should be used on demand like field respec.

 

Understanding people, and the "slippery slope" reality we live in. We will arrive at either of the two.....

 

Unless EA, as im sure they will, is planning on milking people for AC respecs. As if they actually deserve money for an ingame utility that requires no oversight.

[Trollokdamus]

As said before.. The beta forums do not exist.. There have been countless people from the beta that have testified to this topic.. If you aren't going to read this thread and the threads before it then don't come in here and cry about a source.. This topic has been going on for over 2 years.. A lot longer than you have been playing the game..

 

Either say something of value or take it else where.. Nobody here is delusional.. You just don't seem to want to discuss facts and whenever someone disagrees with you, you call them a troll.. Do you have anything to add to the topic or are you just going to sit there and cry for a source when you are perfectly capable to do the reading and research your self..

 

Anything I say is a well known fact.. A fact to anyone that has been here since the beta... If that isn't you, then that is your problem..

 

Nobody can quote a forum that doesn't exist.. But there is enough people that were around during this time that have either quoted them when they did exist or still remember the quotes.. I believe Lord just linked some of those old quotes.. Feel free for to worship the ground he walks on for doing your research..

 

Or you could just live with what the game says.. I mean.. Are you going to call me a troll over what the game says.. Do I need a source for that too?? How exactly do I source the game saying on 4 separate occasions, 2 text and 2 voice, that our choice of AC is permanent???

 

Trust me.. I am not the one trolling here..

 

Whatever you say

 

Just to clarify why i'm convinced that you are trolling:

 

1. To everyone who ever played SWTOR, it's obvious that this game has 8 classes from a story point of view (JK, JC, Trooper, Smuggler, SW, SI, Agent, BH), 8 classes from a mechanical point of view (Sin/Shadow, Sorc/Sage, Mara/Sent, Jugg/Guardian, Sniper/Gunslinger, Operative/Scoundrel, PT/Vanguard, Merc/Commando) and 16 classes from a visual design point of view (each AC has it's own somewhat unique ability animations, ability names and class names).

 

It's obvious to you as well, but you keep pretending otherwise. Why? I can think of just one logical reasoning - you try to goad me.

 

2. Knowing that there are 8x2 + 8x0.5 (given that we count shared trees as 0.5 of a real tree) = 20 unique talent trees total (other 20 are identical to them), you still intentionally count both real ones and their mirrors:

11X3 is 33 specs.. SWTOR has 16 classes with 3 specs, 1 shared.. Not counting the shared.. 16X2 is 32.. Only a loss of 1 spec.. Counting the shared because they are in fact specs.. There are 48 specs in this game.. 15 more than in WOW..

The math is sound.. You can figure it out for yourself.. I consider each tree as a spec.. That is 3 specs per class.. 16 times 3 is 48.. The math doesn't lie..

 

So, here you try to make a point with outright lies. You do realize that this lies are easy to notice for everyone who knows anything about how mirror classes work, so the reasoning here is... same as above, i guess, you just try to goad your opponents.

 

3. You claim...

In WOW the Mage and Warlock are pretty much identical in every way.. (...) Priests are also very close to mage and Warlocks.. (...)

...when it's obvious to anyone who ever played WoW that all the classes mentioned above are absolutely different beasts, this days even more than ever. Warlock alone with his specs now feels like 3 separate classes. SWTOR is miles behind WoW when it comes to class and spec diversity.

 

I believe that you know all that, so the only goal of your ridiculous statement is... to provoke me, just like in the points above.

Edited November 24, 2013 by Trollokdamus

[Savej]

Keep telling yourself that. Then ask yourself, if so few people would leave if they allowed class changes, however limited, why have they not implemented them? Why the total and complete silence from the devs on this hot topic, despite countless threads including this one of almost 400 pages?

 

I've played lots of games that added spec/pseudo-class changes after release. I don't think it ever noticeably changed their numbers. Wow's population only went up after allowing spec changes and dual spec. Other games have added the ability for characters to make significant changes even, effectively, "class" changes and I don't remember any uproar or population drops. Why hasn't BW implemented AC changes? I don't know, maybe they've been busy with other priorities?

Edited November 25, 2013 by Savej

[LordArtemis]

Again, you can use the Wayback Machine website to prune quotes from the devs on the original beta boards. It takes quite a bit of work and research, but I have managed to dredge up quite a few quotes from the original boards.

 

Anyone is welcome to run over there and check it out.

[radicalness]

I don't understand people who are against AC change. You don't like it don't use it. Its an additional option for people who want to use it. People who change their AC, have to deal with changing gear consequences.

 

The end.[/quote also to add to this why wast ur time complaining i mean I'm not about to waist my time arqueing

[jeniyagyu]

I am kind of in the middle for this topic ... On the one hand, I wouldn't mind trading my Jugg for a Mara but I don't mind having to level one up if I want it either. Same with my Operative ... I love my Slinger so I would much prefer a Sniper, but again, I don't mind having to level it.

 

It is just one of those things that have a lot of supporters and a lot of non-supporters. But in the end it is up to Bioware to figure out if they want to put it in or not (I think WoW's is like ... 25$ or something along those lines).

[GyroNexus]

I don't know how people can tolerate leveling through the exact same planets over and over and over again. After playing my Vanguard some more I wish I made my Mercenary a Powertech, but I sure as hell don't want to do Belsavis or Voss again just to play a Powertech. Allowing a switch won't break the game.

[Ratajack]

I am kind of in the middle for this topic ... On the one hand, I wouldn't mind trading my Jugg for a Mara but I don't mind having to level one up if I want it either. Same with my Operative ... I love my Slinger so I would much prefer a Sniper, but again, I don't mind having to level it.

 

It is just one of those things that have a lot of supporters and a lot of non-supporters. But in the end it is up to Bioware to figure out if they want to put it in or not (I think WoW's is like ... 25$ or something along those lines).

 

You cannot change your class in WoW, for any cost. I hope that this game continues to follow that example.

[Ratajack]

I don't know how people can tolerate leveling through the exact same planets over and over and over again. After playing my Vanguard some more I wish I made my Mercenary a Powertech, but I sure as hell don't want to do Belsavis or Voss again just to play a Powertech. Allowing a switch won't break the game.

 

Fortunately, there are alternate ways of leveling than doing all the same planetary quests again, although you would have to do the story quests again.

[Soul_of_Flames]

Sure... give players more reasons to not play the game...

 

There should never be an advanced class change option, ever. If you want to try the other advanced class, roll another character.

[PeterTLJr]

There is no reason NOT to allow advance class changes. What entirely are you losing from switching AC? Your story is the same, your companions are the same, your base skills are the same...all you lose is one set of skills for another. Its the same thing in every other mmo, when you change specs you lose some skills and gain some new skills. When you change specs in this game, you dont lose any abilities or gain any abilities, your rotation is different. Yes you get abilities from your skill tree but that happens in almost every other mmo so you cant use that in this argument.

 

For those saying allowing AC changes will ruin end game/taking gear for other AC...you can avoid this by either running your own operations and managing the loot yourself or finding a guild to run with.

 

For those saying that this game would be like World of Warcraft when it comes to allowing class changes, it should. Do not allow class changes. However AC changing isnt a hard class change. There is no difference from a trooper switching from commando to vanguard then a paladin switching from protection to holy. Its the same process, you gain new abilities, new roles, new rotation, ect.

 

Not giving players freedom with there character is what will destroy this game.

 

Its actually quite sad that so many of you are against such a minor change such as this yet dont care that your allowed to change your race and appearance whenever you want. I guess its okay for my trooper to one day be a human then magically turn into a cat the next, but the second I swap guns and shoot from a different distance all hell breaks lose.

 

#Logic

[JoshyJohnson]

Would be cool but I would be satisfied with being able to use a double LS on my sage and sorc

 

Yup I just want a double bladed saber for my Sage. Stealth would be nice too I would buy an AC change to a Shadow, cause I cannot bare the lvling in this game anymore (mind dumbing missions) and I personally feel it would be a nice change. However, the gear issue would be a problem, but maybe if we had 2 gear sets, and 2 move sets, if you equipped a weapon (e.g. single bladed saber for Sage, and double bladed saber for Shadow. Or 1 saber for Guardian, and 2 sabers for Sentinel) we could maybe change AC on the fly, just by changing your weapon.

[Halinalle]

For those saying that this game would be like World of Warcraft when it comes to allowing class changes, it should. Do not allow class changes. However AC changing isnt a hard class change. There is no difference from a trooper switching from commando to vanguard then a paladin switching from protection to holy. Its the same process, you gain new abilities, new roles, new rotation, ect.

 

Do you also automatically gain knowledge how to play specific AC after you have mastered one?

 

For example, can player who has played commando from 10 to 55 automatically know how to tank as a Vanguard if he/she has never played as a Vanguard?

[Jeweledleah]

Do you also automatically gain knowledge how to play specific AC after you have mastered one?

 

For example, can player who has played commando from 10 to 55 automatically know how to tank as a Vanguard if he/she has never played as a Vanguard?

 

would a player who played from 1 to 90 as say retribution have ANY idea how to tank or heal aka play holy or prot?

 

or here, how about we do this in SWTOR terms instead of bringing other games into it. would someone who leveled from 1 to 55 as say... gunnery commando have any knowledge in how to heal or even play the other commando dps spec? automatically?

 

of all the arguments that are brought up against AC change, this particular one always made the least amount of sense to me.

 

assumption that leveling from 10 to 55 means you mastered an AC always amused me. hell, you are lucky if you mastered a single tree. should we bar people who level as dps from ever trying out healing or tanking then, unless they reroll and level as a tank/healer?

[Halinalle]

would a player who played from 1 to 90 as say retribution have ANY idea how to tank or heal aka play holy or prot?

 

or here, how about we do this in SWTOR terms instead of bringing other games into it. would someone who leveled from 1 to 55 as say... gunnery commando have any knowledge in how to heal or even play the other commando dps spec? automatically?

 

of all the arguments that are brought up against AC change, this particular one always made the least amount of sense to me.

 

assumption that leveling from 10 to 55 means you mastered an AC always amused me. hell, you are lucky if you mastered a single tree. should we bar people who level as dps from ever trying out healing or tanking then, unless they reroll and level as a tank/healer?

 

Do you know what would happen if someone who has never played as Vanguard but has level 55 Commando tried level 55 Vanguard? Yes, he probably would try to stay at long range (as we all know Trooper is ranged class after all).

 

Yes, I have level 42 SS Vanguard so I know it's actually melee class.

Edited December 31, 2013 by Halinalle

[Savej]

Do you know what would happen if someone who has never played as Vanguard but has level 55 Commando tried level 55 Vanguard? Yes, he probably would try to stay at long range (as we all know Trooper is ranged class after all).

 

Yes, I have level 42 SS Vanguard so I know it's actually melee class.

 

Are you saying there's a bigger difference in going from merc dps to pt dps than there is going from merc dps to merc heals? I disagree. But yeah, no matter what, after a spec change there will be an adjustment period. Heck, when i start playing my focus sentinel again after playing my focus guardian for a couple weeks it takes me an hour or so to get back on top of my tools/rotation (but it takes far longer to adjust to a focus=>vigilance or focus=>combat switch). Ultimately, SO WHAT?

Your argument is more against allowing any spec change but I doubt that you have real life examples of the option hurting sub numbers or playability in any of the many games that allow it

Edited December 31, 2013 by Savej

[JaceMatai]

116k views and STILL no gold response? Come on, Bioware!

[Kissakias]

AC change = 5000 cartel coins (I'de love to see that):p:D

 

but no other way

Edited December 31, 2013 by Kissakias

[Jeweledleah]

Do you know what would happen if someone who has never played as Vanguard but has level 55 Commando tried level 55 Vanguard? Yes, he probably would try to stay at long range (as we all know Trooper is ranged class after all).

 

Yes, I have level 42 SS Vanguard so I know it's actually melee class.

 

do you know that I've actually ran into high lvl vanguards who think they are ranged? because for first 10 levels all you get is ranged stuff, and then you still stick with a rifle and get abilities that STILL have range to them, so they don't even realize that some of the abilities they use from far away are not even hitting? I've also met melee sorcerers, operatives who insisted on shooting out of cover, and all other maner of inept players

 

a person who cannot read tooltips has a problem with or without AC change.

 

do you know what else could happen when someone who played as commando to 55, decides to try a vanguard? they read the tooltips? they go online and check out guides? they ask questions in chat/from guildies? you know kinda like people do now, but within the AC.

[Anzel]

I can't believe how stupid this is. This is a silly video game. It's a matter of convenience. I mean really. People need to get over themselves.

[ELRunninW]

I can't believe how stupid this is. This is a silly video game. It's a matter of convenience. I mean really. People need to get over themselves.

 

Why? this is a stupid suggestion why bother arguing?

[Halinalle]

I can't believe how stupid this is. This is a silly video game. It's a matter of convenience. I mean really. People need to get over themselves.

 

Choices and consequences.

 

Could you people just play what you want to play instead of chasing the FOTM?