ETA on Advanced Class change?

[Grayseven]

What about the people who wish to avoid group issues by asking that BW not increase the numbers of people who have no idea how to play their class which is what would happen if class changes were allowed? Are their desires any less valid than your desire to avoid group issues by forcing a mandatory AC pick at level 10?

 

How do you figure? None of these classes are rocket science and what would happen if someone changed their AC would be that they'd have a short learning period (one easily mitigated by the Dulfy guides) and then they'd be playing their new AC just as well as their old one.

 

There wouldn't be any group issue above and beyond those we have now. People who don't know how to play their current AC wouldn't know how to play a new one, people who know how to play one would easily know how to play the other...

[TUXs]

As for an online game where your class defines your role, that is the case in almost every MMO. Why should the WOW player who chose to roll a priest and later realizes they prefer druid healing not be able to change to his class to druid? After all, he made that mistake of choosing priest early, even before level 1. Why should that mistake haunt him forever if the needs of the community are always in flux? Is it possibly because allowing class changes holds the potential for more negative impacts than positive? Is it possibly because allowing class changes is an unwritten "no-no" in MMO's?

 

What the hell does W0W have to do with anything? Roles are already interchangeable with respecs. What "negative" Rat??? WHAT NEGATIVE are you talking about? Give me one...I've asked you at least 4 times now and you have NO VALID ARGUMENT against it. NONE!

What about the people who wish to avoid group issues by asking that BW not increase the numbers of people who have no idea how to play their class which is what would happen if class changes were allowed? Are their desires any less valid than your desire to avoid group issues by forcing a mandatory AC pick at level 10?

 

Ah! You're scared. I can understand that, but there are already plenty of players at 55 who have no flipping clue how to play their class. If you're afraid you'll get grouped with one of them, solo stuff or run with folks you know. Problem solved. This is no different than returning players not having any clue how their class worked...they'll learn.

 

And yes. The mandatory AC pick at 10 was because picking an AC (ANY AC) improves your characters group functionality. Which AC you pick isn't important, but picking one DOES improve group play. But like I said, screw it. Let it be as it is. It's easy to see if someone hasn't picked one so let the community police itself on that one...it's a non-issue.

[Soluss]

Get rid of AC altogether. Pick your class at level 1. Problem solved.

[TridusSWTOR]

News flash.

 

"People want it" isn't exactly a strong reason.

 

News Flash:

 

You are given a choice not to do an AC change but other players can if they wish to do so, since well...you don't pay their sub now do you?

 

Pro-AC change offers choice.

 

You offer no choice, only put self-rules in place to restrict other players game experience.

[Grayseven]

Get rid of AC altogether. Pick your class at level 1. Problem solved.

 

Well, to be honest BW brought this on them selves by splitting classes into two similar subclasses instead of just making 8 unique classes. We wouldn't even have this discussion if so much of the "base" class wasn't shared by both sub-classes.

 

Unfortunately, there ARE enough similarities to justify allowing AC changing, if for no other reason than for players to take a favored character that they put a lot of effort into or consider their "main" and switch to the other spec that may be more suited to their play style.

 

It is pretty hard to get a good feel for how well you mesh with a play style until you actually hit 50/55 and get it's full potential. Some people might prefer the Trooper over the Counselor but be unsure if they should go Commando or Trooper and if they pick wrong they might not find out how wrong until after they've put a ton of time into it.

 

I do not advocate allowing AC change as willy-nilly as spec change, but I do think people should get a chance to change their mind without having to start all over from the beginning.

[TridusSWTOR]

Get rid of AC altogether. Pick your class at level 1. Problem solved.

 

Let's remove all chances of making Alts as well.

 

Since people like rakajaka are concerned with noobs entering his playing area. We have to limit people to learn one class and one spec only.

 

Yes that means removing respec options, once you pick your points, it's done.

[branmakmuffin]

You aren't the first to ask this question, read the thread for your answer. Also, I'm not smug, I'm sure you take it that way. Regardless, wanting things without putting in effort that others have for said thing is the epitome of lazy. No more approprite adjective comes to mind for this situation.

There is no effort required to play the game. Your "effort" argument is specious. If AC change is allowed, no one will force you to do it. No one is dictating to you how to play. You want to disallow people to change ACs. You are trying to dictate to others how to play. That sums it up.

[TridusSWTOR]

Far too much ambiguity and redundancy has plagued this thread.

 

The majority of the Pro's and Con's collected for us by L.A., in reality, are the same issues. They are simply rephrased in order to maintain an aura of neutrality.

 

It's very sad to see people sacrifice legitimacy in order to support ideals that intrinsically hold little water.

 

Blatently denying that you just want AC change for QoL purposes (ie im lazy and dont wanna level another character) is lame. Own up.

 

Atleast im honest, i dont want AC change because ive already leveled characters of the same class because i wanted to play the other AC. I did what was nessesary to enjoy the game in the way I pleased. It is a slight to all players who have done this to institute this change.

 

Just to add frosting to the cake, from the way EA/Bioware has treated its loyal customers so far, its likely they will institute this change. Even if it means minimal profit gain, and pisses off half the player base. If they think they can get away with it, you better beleive EA is gonna get that $$$$$$$$$$$

 

I leveled every AC to 55 and on both factions.

 

I support AC change. Therefore you're argument is nullified.

 

You started off well enough but then you just dismissed an entire side due to personal beliefs, but first said yourself that doing that was wrong. So bad wording on your part. Nevertheless, if you can't see both sides, then it's clear you in the "I got mine, forget everyone else!" camp.

[LordArtemis]

Pro-AC change offers somewhat the illusion of choice IMO. It does, in fact, offer more options and in this case it is entirely speculative as to whether or not that is a bad thing.

 

But one could argue allowing a person to roll a fresh 55 from creation is choice, you don't have to do it, but it might have a negative impact on the game.

 

Same with giving players 1 million credits to start or a full set of end game armor. Some choices could have detrimental effects.

 

Grant it this likely qualifies as a strawman...still, one can see that in some cases "choice" might be viewed as a bad thing.

 

The illusion of choice might come in when it comes to underrepresented ACs, being that some of them have poor design but I would speculate some players stick with them because to time and unlock/training investment. That may change if they are allowed to change AC...they may in fact be expected to change to certain more useful ACs depending on the situation.

 

Not the strongest point, but still possible IMO.

 

If this is offered (I don't care for it, but can't deny it to the masses if they desire it) I think that safeguards have to be in place to prevent abuse.

 

I still think the best option is to leave it as is, or even better to remove the base class all together, call it a path, have us choose our AC at level 1, which then becomes your base class. That is how it should have been from the very beginning IMO.

[Spatology]

I leveled every AC to 55 and on both factions.

 

I support AC change. Therefore you're argument is nullified.

 

You started off well enough but then you just dismissed an entire side due to personal beliefs, but first said yourself that doing that was wrong. So bad wording on your part. Nevertheless, if you can't see both sides, then it's clear you in the "I got mine, forget everyone else!" camp.

 

A. I don't believe you.

B. I see both sides for what they are, you have rose tinted glasses from some bias you've developed.

C. I dismissed nones opinion.

[Spatology]

There is no effort required to play the game. Your "effort" argument is specious. If AC change is allowed, no one will force you to do it. No one is dictating to you how to play. You want to disallow people to change ACs. You are trying to dictate to others how to play. That sums it up.

 

Stop misappropriating my intentions please.

 

I'm not telling anyone what to do or not do when they log into the game. I have no power to disallow or dictate to you anything.

 

Though, you have all the power to enjoy each AC however you choose.

 

.If I exerted no effort, you won't mind doing the same, right?

Edited August 2, 2013 by Spatology

[LordArtemis]

Stop misappropriating my intentions please.

 

I'm not telling anyone what to do or not do when they log into the game. I have no power to disallow or dictate to you anything.

 

Though, you have all the power to enjoy each AC however you choose.

 

.If I exerted no effort, you won't mind doing the same, right?

 

You still didn't answer my question as to whether or not you feel I am somehow being disingenuous with my pros and cons list I provided. Your not required to answer naturally, but I would like to know if you feel that I am presenting myself or the post in some disingenuous way.

[TridusSWTOR]

A. I don't believe you.

B. I see both sides for what they are, you have rose tinted glasses from some bias you've developed.

C. I dismissed nones opinion.

 

A. Glad you missed the entire point.

B. Re-read and respond correctly.

C. You displayed nothing but bias.

[TridusSWTOR]

Stop misappropriating my intentions please.

 

I'm not telling anyone what to do or not do when they log into the game. I have no power to disallow or dictate to you anything.

 

Though, you have all the power to enjoy each AC however you choose.

 

.If I exerted no effort, you won't mind doing the same, right?

 

AC change option- You have the choice to do it or not.

 

No AC change option- You have no choice.

[Soluss]

I leveled every AC to 55 and on both factions.

 

I support AC change. Therefore you're argument is nullified.

 

You started off well enough but then you just dismissed an entire side due to personal beliefs, but first said yourself that doing that was wrong. So bad wording on your part. Nevertheless, if you can't see both sides, then it's clear you in the "I got mine, forget everyone else!" camp.

 

You have 16 level 55's? Forgive me if I don't believe you. You are far too heavy in this thread for pro ac. That pretty much points you out as one who wants to change AC. If you have all 16 ac's, at level 55, you wouldn't need to.

Edited August 3, 2013 by Soluss

[Soluss]

AC change option- You have the choice to do it or not.

 

No AC change option- You have no choice.

 

AC change option - not needed since you can choose whatever ac you want before you roll your toon.

 

No AC change option - what we already have.

[physmarcus]

An underlying fear I have is what will the social pressure be on developers to fix broken specs if AC change is possible." Why, you are a Powertech dps that is struggling? Switch to Mercenary then". We all know guilds and player bases will expect this, which may in turn leave noone, or very few at least, of said broken class to bring it to the attention of the developers.

 

Of course, perhaps everyone abandoning ship on an advance class WOULD force the developers to take action, but I do not believe so.

[MajikMyst]

They are not going to allow AC swapping.. The games says 'No..' in at least 4 different occasions before an AC is chosen..

 

Also most people by a large margin do not want it..

 

If anyone disputes that they can just go back and read thread or any of the ones before it..

 

This issue is a dead horse.. I really wish people would treat as such and let it die..

[MajikMyst]

Let's remove all chances of making Alts as well..

 

Alts has nothing to do with choosing your class.. Can you for once stay on topic??

[MajikMyst]

I leveled every AC to 55 and on both factions.

 

I support AC change. Therefore you're argument is nullified.

 

Do you want a brownie button or a chest to pin it on..

 

His argument isn't nullified.. You just can come up with anything meaningful to dispute it.. Which is typical for you..

[PeterTLJr]

They are not going to allow AC swapping.. The games says 'No..' in at least 4 different occasions before an AC is chosen..

 

Also most people by a large margin do not want it..

 

If anyone disputes that they can just go back and read thread or any of the ones before it..

 

This issue is a dead horse.. I really wish people would treat as such and let it die..

 

Do you have proof that they aren't going to allow ac swapping? Do you have proof that most of the player do not want it? No you don't. I still follow this thread and in almost every one of your posts you put yourself on a pedestal and act superior like you know BW/EAs plans.

[Ratajack]

What the hell does W0W have to do with anything? Roles are already interchangeable with respecs. What "negative" Rat??? WHAT NEGATIVE are you talking about? Give me one...I've asked you at least 4 times now and you have NO VALID ARGUMENT against it. NONE!

 

 

 

Again, the negatives have been listed and posted ad nauseum. You simply refuse to acknowledge them, choosing instead to dismiss and ignore them. Your dismissal of the negatives and reasons not to allow class changes makes them no less valid.

[Ratajack]

News Flash:

 

You are given a choice not to do an AC change but other players can if they wish to do so, since well...you don't pay their sub now do you?

 

Pro-AC change offers choice.

 

You offer no choice, only put self-rules in place to restrict other players game experience.

 

You ask for the existing game mechanics to be changed to suit you. I am asking that the already existing game mechanics NOT be changed, but rather left as the devs designed and implemented them. I am not putting any self rules in place to restrict other players, nor am I asking for restrictions to be added to other players.

[MajikMyst]

Do you have proof that they aren't going to allow ac swapping? Do you have proof that most of the player do not want it? No you don't. I still follow this thread and in almost every one of your posts you put yourself on a pedestal and act superior like you know BW/EAs plans.

 

Have you played the game lately?? Does it say permanent or something else??

 

There is your proof.. Next time try looking at the obvious..

 

I am not acting superior.. I am simply acknowledging the obvious.. If that makes me superior then so be it..

[Spatology]

You still didn't answer my question as to whether or not you feel I am somehow being disingenuous with my pros and cons list I provided. Your not required to answer naturally, but I would like to know if you feel that I am presenting myself or the post in some disingenuous way.

 

I don't think you are disingenuous. I think you are pandering to each side so as to maintain an aura of neutrality. I commend the effort, but can't bring myself t replicate it.