TUXs Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 i lol'd. on topic.. i think if you want to play a different class you should reroll an alt. A different Class, of course...not a different Advanced Class. It's the same freaking story...they share everything, including a skill tree...it's silly not to allow it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yungscion Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 There is no PARENT CLASS. Then why do I find the word Classes under the Holonet link populated with Bounty Hunter, Imperial Agent, Sith Warrior, Sith Inquisitor, Trooper, Smuggler, Jedi Knight, and Jedi Counsular? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soluss Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 If ACs were truly their own classes, they wouldn't share the same base class with another, and they would have their own storylines. The developers commented on this very thing. The only reason they went the AC path is because they couldn't afford and didn't have the time to make 8 more storylines. They also said that they treat AC's as their own class. Their game, their definitions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
branmakmuffin Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 Actually that analogy is perfect. ACs are in fact, separate classes. To think differently...is insane. To insist that a highly controversial topic is settled is the insane thing. Or rather the arrogant thing. Because you share a stat, does not mean you are in fact the same class. Pally and SK share the same base class, doesn't mean they're the same class. Every time y'all resort to WoW, you weaken your argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andryah Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 (edited) ...they share everything, including a skill tree...it's silly not to allow it. They share SOME things, not everything. They share story, they share a tree in the skills. They share armor, but not main/off hand sets. They play completely differently, sharing only the non AC skills.....but it's AC skills that define the AC and the optimal skill rotations, not the base skills. So.. no.. again.. please stop using ABSOLUTES. They share some things, not all things. Edited July 30, 2013 by Andryah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evodude Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 i want to play me smuggler as imperial seriously thats all i want lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soluss Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 They share SOME things, not everything. They share story, they share a tree in the skills. They share armor, but not main/off hand sets. They play completely differently, sharing only the non AC skills.....but it's AC skills that define the AC and the optimal skill rotations, not the base skills. So.. no.. again.. please stop using ABSOLUTES. They share some things, not all things. Actually, they don't always share the same armor either. Mara wear's medium and Jugg wear's heavy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soluss Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 i want to play me smuggler as imperial seriously thats all i want lol I would be onboard with faction changes. Not just a CC swap but a cool quest that allowed you to switch from darkside to lightside and vise versa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
branmakmuffin Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 I would be onboard with faction changes. Not just a CC swap but a cool quest that allowed you to switch from darkside to lightside and vise versa. Wait, aren't you opposed to AC change? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andryah Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 Wait, aren't you opposed to AC change? He's just saying he would like to swap faction, not AC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ekwalizer Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 To insist that a highly controversial topic is settled is the insane thing. Or rather the arrogant thing. Every time y'all resort to WoW, you weaken your argument. WoW brought MMOs into the mainstream of gaming. No game ever has nor likely ever will come close to the money that WoW has generated. No game has nor likely ever will come close to the number of active subscriptions that WoW boasts. Nearly every successful MMO since WoW has been a virtual clone of WoW. To include this one. Prior to WoW there was much more diversity in MMO design. Don't get me wrong, WoW openly copied the most successful MMOs available at the time of its release - they didn't do anything innovative, they just capitalized on the good aspects of everyone's product and packaged it in a new format. Whether you are a fan of WoW or not is irrelevant, WoW is in fact the MMO yardstick. To compare and contrast any MMO, specifically one that openly copied WoW is quite logical. Naturally we should all embrace the successful aspects of WoW and avoid the errors that Blizzard made along the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ekwalizer Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 (edited) Daniel Erickson was exaggerating quite a bit in that snippet. We all know better now - hell, classes share a tree even - an Assault Commando has EXACTLY the same skill tree as an Assault Vanguard. There's no valid reason not to allow players to swap ACs...Daniel isn't even with Bioware anymore - his false statement shouldn't prevent them from doing something good for the game. That's not true by a long shot. There are EXACTLY six completely different talents between Assault VG and Assault Mando. Tier 1, VG has Ionized Ignition and Stockstrike, where Commando has Target Lock and Weapon Calibrations. Tier 4, VG has Assault Frame and Hyper Assault Cell where Commando has Suit FOE and Hyper Assault Rounds. Tier 7 VG has Riot Augs and Adrenaline Fueled where Commando has Hyper Barrels and Reflex Battery. How is Daniel Erickson (ya know the LEAD DESIGNER and Creative Director of the game) wrong when he said what the Advanced Classes were meant to be? To say that the man in charge of designing the game is wrong, when he explains one of the core aspects of the game, is ridiculous. Just because most of the original leadership is gone doesn't change the fact that they designed the game and know infinitely better than you do what was meant to be doable and what wasn't. Edited July 31, 2013 by ekwalizer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
makallitank Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 they didn't do anything innovative That's just plain incorrect. They took the EverQuest formula, clearly, and molded it to be far more accessible to the average gamer, while improving pretty much everything about the system. Completely open 3D world in an MMO? Innovative Specializations for every class? Innovative Their version of quests? Innovative. Etc, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ekwalizer Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 That's just plain incorrect. They took the EverQuest formula, clearly, and molded it to be far more accessible to the average gamer, while improving pretty much everything about the system. Completely open 3D world in an MMO? Innovative Specializations for every class? Innovative Their version of quests? Innovative. Etc, etc. You might want to look into all the Sandbox MMOs of the time, specifically SWG. SWG had specializations for every class. In point of fact you could specialize in 2 classes. Sure it was the first non-stop theme park. But linked quests was hardly innovative. Their death mechanic was really the only thing they did that was unique at the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soluss Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 Wait, aren't you opposed to AC change? Faction change is not AC change Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratajack Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 Maybe not to you, but it is to me. MMOs are fluid and I can understand players disliking massive changes to their class (like in 2.0). If switching ACs kept someone playing longer, how can you possibly be against it? It's a boon to the economy as well as players are forced to buy new equipment. And the "compelling" reason you'd like is - it's none of your flipping business! Unless YOU wanna pay their subscription, you have absolutely no say in what someone should be. If they would like to switch to enjoy the game, mind your own business...you aren't impacted and you have absolutely NO valid reasons behind your insane desire to punish people for wanting to try another AC. I don't see anyone trying to punish someone for wanting to TRY another class. I see people asking that the current mechanics not be changed. If someone wants to TRY another class, they can create a character and CHOOSE that class. And a Trooper is a Trooper - all base skills identical. Your point is moot. And please, stick to SWTOR, this has nothing to do with W0W. Players will adjust and you're free to stay true to your beliefs. Play your toons, I'll play mine (mind your own business). A trooper may be a trooper, but a vanguard is NOT a commando. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratajack Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 If ACs were truly their own classes, they wouldn't share the same base class with another, and they would have their own storylines. This has been explained many times before in the thread. By sharing a base class and story line, they were able to keep the costs down by not having to write 8 additional different story lines, hire voice actors for those additional 8 classes, etc. If AC's were simply "different specs" of the same class, the devs would not have stated that AC's are fundamentally DIFFERENT class designs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratajack Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 To be fair they share: Parent Class Companions Starship Base stat 1 Talent tree Certain set of abilities Storyline This is were the confusion and desire stem from. The parent class vs advanced class muddied the waters on exactly what was your class and what was your specialization. Am I an Imperial Agent who specializes in stealth and medical technology to either heal or dps, or am I an Operative that heal or dps, verses being an Imperial Agent who specializes in long distance kills using my blaster or probes, or a Sniper who kill stuff either with a rifle or probes. This muddies the water and leaves it open to interpretation. The original devs interpretation was that you are the later (Sniper or Operative) not just a different flavor of Agent. But he is gone and mostly from what I understand that was due to his inflexibility on issue that a lot of people (players included) did not agree on, and the new devs have mentioned they are interested in revisiting the interpretation of class in this game. Actually, the devs have NEVER said they are "interested in revisiting the interpretation of class in this game". What they said was that AC changes would likely happen at some undetermined point in time. That statement was made back in November and there has been NOT ONE PEEP from them about class changes since, despite numerous threads, including this one, regarding this hot topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red_Eye_Jedi_ Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 I understand wanting to make a change to ones Advance Class, however I don't agree with Race/Gender changes. If you don't like a Human/Chiss etc DON'T PICK ONE! Advanced Classes are different as you're not sure if you will enjoy the class or adapt to it as well as others. At the end of the day though, don't leave it 'till your level 40+ before deciding you want to change Class and then blame BioWare for not allowing you to do so... you should have decided a long time ago; if that was the case, re-rolling your chosen Advanced Class wouldn't be that big of a deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratajack Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 Daniel Erickson was exaggerating quite a bit in that snippet. We all know better now Daniel Erickson was not exaggerating. He was stating the devs intents regarding AC being DIFFERENT CLASSES. You may think otherwise, but contrary to your opinion, we DON'T all " know better". Many still recognize that AC's are DIFFERENT classes. Even some of those wanting to change AC's recognize this and admit that they want to change their class. hell, classes share a tree even - an Assault Commando has EXACTLY the same skill tree as an Assault Vanguard. I believe you would are totally wrong. Those two trees may share MOST of the same abilities, but they do not have the exact same abilities. There's no valid reason not to allow players to swap ACs...Daniel isn't even with Bioware anymore - his false statement shouldn't prevent them from doing something good for the game. Daniel's statements are not negated by his no longer being employed by BW/EA. You may think that allowing class changes would be good for the game, but many, including myself, do not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bomyne Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 You might want to look into all the Sandbox MMOs of the time, specifically SWG. SWG had specializations for every class. In point of fact you could specialize in 2 classes. Sure it was the first non-stop theme park. But linked quests was hardly innovative. Their death mechanic was really the only thing they did that was unique at the time. SWG was a small map (16km squared I think) per planet. To travel a single continent in WoW, it was a lot further than 16km. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 They share SOME things, not everything. They share story, they share a tree in the skills. They share armor, but not main/off hand sets. They play completely differently, sharing only the non AC skills.....but it's AC skills that define the AC and the optimal skill rotations, not the base skills. So.. no.. again.. please stop using ABSOLUTES. They share some things, not all things. I would agree with this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
branmakmuffin Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 Faction change is not AC change Right, it's a much more dramatic change. So you're in favor of the more dramatic change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soluss Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 Right, it's a much more dramatic change. So you're in favor of the more dramatic change. Yes I am. I think I made that clear already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 Daniel's statements are not negated by his no longer being employed by BW/EA. You may think that allowing class changes would be good for the game, but many, including myself, do not. Why? Why would this not be good? Why???? Give me ONE compelling reason jack...cuz so far, NOBODY has. "people won't know how to play" isn't a reason...plenty of people hit 55 and have no clue. So please...why on earth is this NOT good for the game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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