Jedi Guardian ~ Tank Spec in PVP ***? (A numbers discussion)

[Coveii]

Hmm...how to frame this.... ***?

 

I knew going into this I wouldn't be the top DPS'er....or numbers man...but seriously ***?

 

Ok, let's back up. First off, I consider myself an average player...Im not into pvp to accomplish anything other than grabbing armor pieces and having a little fun. I also don't have access to pc programs that run numbers to prove what I'm next going to say.

 

Lets talk numbers...after a match I scan the "numbers" and easily see dps and healer on average do about 200k or more(whether it's heals or damage). Some have even gotten over 800k in either field. I look at my "protection" stats and I've basically gotten less than 150k in protection(on a good day) mostly 50-100k.

 

My big claim to fame is taunts and group taunts...which have a pretty sever recast...at least in PVP. In PVE...no problems with aggro. Computers "can't ignore me" while actual players can ignore or factor in the debuffs.

 

My main arguements are DPS and Healer can pretty quickly spam their "skills"...where's my spamminng? MY defense cooldowns(the good one is on a 3min timer), while the small 15% saber throw defense buff is every so often.

 

Without resorting to focus guardian, can't guardian tanks have more spamming "guard" moves? Or have the effect last longer? Reflect was awesome..but 3 seconds is a very short window. I just feel like there's not more I can do for my team other than jump around..maybe stasis, maybe hiltstrike,...and so forth.

 

Maybe, the readers can offer a better solution(without changing to focus spec)?

 

On a side not....*** am I still getting hit with 8k smashes? I have full partisan gear with a few elite pieces thrown in.

[L-RANDLE]

Hmm...how to frame this.... ***?

 

I knew going into this I wouldn't be the top DPS'er....or numbers man...but seriously ***?

 

Ok, let's back up. First off, I consider myself an average player...Im not into pvp to accomplish anything other than grabbing armor pieces and having a little fun. I also don't have access to pc programs that run numbers to prove what I'm next going to say.

 

Lets talk numbers...after a match I scan the "numbers" and easily see dps and healer on average do about 200k or more(whether it's heals or damage). Some have even gotten over 800k in either field. I look at my "protection" stats and I've basically gotten less than 150k in protection(on a good day) mostly 50-100k.

 

My big claim to fame is taunts and group taunts...which have a pretty sever recast...at least in PVP. In PVE...no problems with aggro. Computers "can't ignore me" while actual players can ignore or factor in the debuffs.

 

My main arguements are DPS and Healer can pretty quickly spam their "skills"...where's my spamminng? MY defense cooldowns(the good one is on a 3min timer), while the small 15% saber throw defense buff is every so often.

 

Without resorting to focus guardian, can't guardian tanks have more spamming "guard" moves? Or have the effect last longer? Reflect was awesome..but 3 seconds is a very short window. I just feel like there's not more I can do for my team other than jump around..maybe stasis, maybe hiltstrike,...and so forth.

 

Maybe, the readers can offer a better solution(without changing to focus spec)?

 

On a side not....*** am I still getting hit with 8k smashes? I have full partisan gear with a few elite pieces thrown in.

 

You should average 150k protection and if you have a decent heal with decent opposition, you should be over 200k protection easily. If the opposition is bad or the healing is weak your protection number will he lower. You should be intercede/guardian leap and keep your taunts on CD, and don't over lap them. You also should switch guards to who ever needs it the most. Healers can get by without guard for awhile. Besides these things tanks should not be concerned with any numbers and only peeling and making enemy healers life miserable.. Tanks are the garbage men/women if PVP. It's not pretty, but some one got to do it.

[DimeStax]

As a PvP tank most of the work you do is not reflected in Protection numbers because none of the damage PREVENTED get's totaled into protection. So as a Guardian tank you get 2 four second stuns and an 8 second stun, but when you use them to protect people it doesn't count towards your protection points. You also get an instant-cast, spammable, 9 Second AoE snare which is amazing for making melee classes easily kiteable (also not adding to your protection points).

 

Basically if you're doing your job, your team lives and hopefully by the end your team has less deaths than their team does, but that doesn't necessarily mean you will look like a God on the scoreboard. Tanking is a thankless role and only the people who know their being guarded truly know how good of a tank you are because the scoreboard at the end of the match only tells half the story.

[UncleOst]

 

Basically if you're doing your job, your team lives and hopefully by the end your team has less deaths than their team does, but that doesn't necessarily mean you will look like a God on the scoreboard. Tanking is a thankless role and only the people who know their being guarded truly know how good of a tank you are because the scoreboard at the end of the match only tells half the story.

 

 

Well said.

 

Funny tho, I've seen boatloads of tanks within warzones post 2.0. There will be new prose for thee unsung heros.

[Coveii]

I still feel pretty weak when taking people 1 vs 1. Im getting hit with 5-8k moves. I don't mind that I can't kill them.. but I should be taking the hits at least, no?

 

I thought about the Hidden points also. But, that's still the case for all jobs too. There's a bunch of abilities that aren't "recorded". Speed burst... rolls etc. I'm taking a blaise approach by simply saying all thing being equal... numbers are much more impressive.

 

I feel the need to say again I play a sage, sniper, etc and still feel extremely underwhelming with jedi guardian. I figured armor would be a saving grace... but with 8k hits...I feel like a sage that went AFK.

[Ridickilis]

I'd just like to re-iterate guard swapping is the key as is staying in range. If your healer is constantly pressured, then leave the guard on him but if notice he's good at kiting/LoSing and barely taking any damage or the (bad) team your playing against is ignoring him, slap that guard on that DPS in the middle of the fray. Bind nearest and next ally if you haven't already.

 

Also, don't get too fixed on numbers, if you 'only' did 50k protection, but you won the match and barely any of your teammates died, you still did your job. I like to look at teammates deaths as another indication of a good tank/healer combo.

[Aelaias]

I find that a tank in a wz is a drag on his team without a healer. The protection is almost never enough to compensate for lost dps.

[DimeStax]

I still feel pretty weak when taking people 1 vs 1. Im getting hit with 5-8k moves. I don't mind that I can't kill them.. but I should be taking the hits at least, no?

 

I thought about the Hidden points also. But, that's still the case for all jobs too. There's a bunch of abilities that aren't "recorded". Speed burst... rolls etc. I'm taking a blaise approach by simply saying all thing being equal... numbers are much more impressive.

 

I feel the need to say again I play a sage, sniper, etc and still feel extremely underwhelming with jedi guardian. I figured armor would be a saving grace... but with 8k hits...I feel like a sage that went AFK.

 

You're still going to get hit for 5-6k occasionally. Smash is autocrit for Focus/Rage Gaurdians/Sents so that means it is only mitigated by Expertise and Armor Rating and will never be reduced by Shield/Absorb. However, it certainly won't be the norm. You can increase your long term survivability by learning how to manage your cooldowns. If specced and geared tank, you should have a defensive cooldown available almost every time you need it. If you don't manage your CDs properly, then you will go longer than necessary without defensive abilities and this could be a problem even for a tank.

Edited May 24, 2013 by DimeStax

[Maelael]

Basically if you're doing your job, your team lives and hopefully by the end your team has less deaths than their team does, but that doesn't necessarily mean you will look like a God on the scoreboard. Tanking is a thankless role and only the people who know their being guarded truly know how good of a tank you are because the scoreboard at the end of the match only tells half the story.

 

As a long time PvPer over multiple games, this is a good explanation here (along with the garbage men analogy). DD and healer numbers look great on a scoreboard. But numbers don't win the instance or make things happen.

 

If you are doing your job, the DDs are doing their job, and the healers are doing their job - you will be at the bottom of the rankings. Every time. But your side should be winning.

 

Unfortunately, "Meaningful deaths" "Damage mitigated" "Successful baits" "Controlling the field" are not quantifiable and rankable numbers by a computer. I can sit on top of the medal and damage/heal chart all day and night on my sorc, but I can't do what I do on my Jugg and take/hold objectives solo or duo vs 1-4 people, or scare off DDs on a Healer. It's a matter of real competitiveness, not just what the numbers show.

 

Essentially, accept your role as a support role - you are there to support setting up the DDs and protecting the healers. If you keep that in mind, and your team does, you will succeed. If they're PUG scrubs who can't coordinate or cooperate, thats what field respec is for. Go make some numbers and smash monkey yourself some coms.

 

Funny tho, I've seen boatloads of tanks within warzones post 2.0. There will be new prose for thee unsung heros.

 

People are getting smarter and realizing that damage/heal ranks =/= winning in warzones. They're realizing that Juggs/Maras/Sins are better for accomplishing the goals of the warzones - and that tanks have good survivability while being able to throw out large DD numbers exceeding, similar, or close enough to be worthy to the actual DD roles in the game. (BHs need help...so bad. Especially mercs.)

 

I had a conversation about this during a 10 minute waiting game in a warzone earlier in the week on my sorc (Opponents were really bad, and the convo continued in Whispers afterwords), it seems to be a trend at 55 if you're a PvPer. People gravitate more towards the needed classes that outspec or outdo the other ones. Right now thats Juggs, Maras, Sins, Healer Ops, and Snipers.

[DimeStax]

I find that a tank in a wz is a drag on his team without a healer. The protection is almost never enough to compensate for lost dps.

 

Without a healer his Guard won't be very effective, however he will still be extremely tough to kill which is sometimes more valuable for holding objectives than more DPS.

Edited May 24, 2013 by DimeStax

[dufox]

suppose ill just make a list

 

 

 

1.

"My big claim to fame is taunts and group taunts...which have a pretty sever recast...at least in pvp. In pve...no problems with aggro. Computers "can't ignore me" while actual players can ignore or factor in the debuffs. "

 

i could be mis understanding you but you do realize if you taunt someone in pvp and then they attack you, the taunt is pointless right?

a pvp tank is the exact opposite of a pve tank.

you do not want charge in first, your goal is not "tanking the enemy", pretty much everything special about a tank is gone if you try to "tank the enemy's team"

 

2.

"Lets talk numbers...after a match i scan the "numbers" and easily see dps and healer on average do about 200k or more(whether it's heals or damage). Some have even gotten over 800k in either field. I look at my "protection" stats and i've basically gotten less than 150k in protection(on a good day) mostly 50-100k. "

 

protection depends on who the enemy is attacking and how long they are attacking them for.

you can play a perfect tank and get low numbers because your teams dps was so high that the enemy team died to fast to do real damage.

the enemy team could be more healer/tanks than dps which equals low protection numbers. the enemy could just have noob dps, that also equals low protection numbers.

same thing applies with your team, there are actually several more factors and all of them depend on more than just how well you play.

 

 

3.

"My main arguments are dps and healer can pretty quickly spam their "skills"...where's my spamminng? My defense cooldowns(the good one is on a 3min timer), while the small 15% saber throw defense buff is every so often. "

 

GUARD, the best defensive skill you have is spammable and guarding a healer is better than any other defensive skill you could hope for.

force push - fantastic for saving lives and can be used defensively - can be used after a slow, or before a guardian leap.

guardian leap - defensive skill that buffs the person you leap to and can be used for several different reasons

taunt - saves lives

aoe taunt - saves lives

aoe slow - fantastic for saving lives and can be used defensively - *cough* guardian leap

awe - GODLY

force stasis - fantastic for saving lives, can be used defensively

 

that's alot of defensive skills right? you get more when you go up the tanking skill tree.

do all of the skills help you get a sexy score? nope. do they save peoples lives? yup.

 

edit: if you take only 1 thing from this.... it should be how epic guardian leap can be.

4.

'On a side not....*** am i still getting hit with 8k smashes? I have full partisan gear with a few elite pieces thrown in.'

 

your forgetting a keyword and that is "occasionally", we can also discuss what other classes occasionally do if you want^^

to be honest the full partisan and some conqueror comment scares me a little considering some of the things im explaining.

Edited May 24, 2013 by dufox

[DimeStax]

suppose ill just make a list

 

 

 

1.

 

i could be mis understanding you but you do realize if you taunt someone in pvp and then they attack you, the taunt is pointless right?

a pvp tank is the exact opposite of a pve tank.

you do not want charge in first, your goal is not "tanking the enemy", pretty much everything special about a tank is gone if you try to "tank the enemy's team"

 

2.

 

protection depends on who the enemy is attacking and how long they are attacking them for.

you can play a perfect tank and get low numbers because your teams dps was so high that the enemy team died to fast to do real damage.

the enemy team could be more healer/tanks than dps which equals low protection numbers. the enemy could just have noob dps, that also equals low protection numbers.

same thing applies with your team, there are actually several more factors and all of them depend on more than just how well you play.

 

 

3.

 

GUARD, the best defensive skill you have is spammable.

force push - fantastic for saving lives

guardian leap - defensive skill that buffs the person you leap to and can be used for several different reasons

taunt - saves lives

aoe taunt - saves lives

aoe slow - fantastic for saving lives

awe - GODLY

force stasis - fantastic for saving lives.

 

that's alot of defensive skills right? you get more when you go up the tanking skill tree.

do all of the skills help you get a sexy score? nope. do they save peoples lives? yup.

 

4.

 

your forgetting a keyword and that is "occasionally", we can also discuss what other classes occasionally do if you want^^

to be honest the full partisan and some conqueror comment scares me a little considering some of the things im explaining.

 

Actually, you WANT to tank the other team, but you also want a healer to have your back .

[dufox]

Actually, you WANT to tank the other team, but you also want a healer to have your back .

 

you want them to be attacking the healer, other wize your guard on him is pointless and you cant taunt.

 

force slow is also alot less effective because healers are always running away while the enemy is slowed but the tank would still be trying to tank & dps them

Edited May 24, 2013 by dufox

[Ridickilis]

you want them to be attacking the healer, other wize your guard on him is pointless and you cant taunt.

 

I more or less agree with everything you're saying but you can always slap the guard on someone else. Plus taunting that enemy that's 1 vs 1'ing your teammate on the other side of the node (30m away) helps as well. Generally they are far enough away to have no idea who taunted them, let alone notice that they were even taunted at all.

[YanksfanJP]

Actually, you WANT to tank the other team, but you also want a healer to have your back .

 

Yes and no - What's better than the other team attacking a guarded healer? them not attacking the healer at all.

[CBRGhostRider]

DimeStax made a pretty good post. In addition, you have to remember that your protection scores are dependent to a large extent on how much dps the other team brings. The lower their dps, the lower your protection scores, so don't fret about it too much.

 

If you are up against a strong dps team, and if you have a healer to pair up with, there is no reason you should not hit 250k/500k/100k (as a jugg tank).

 

Tanking is a thankless job, but it can be great fun if you are fulfilling your role.

[kweassa]

My big claim to fame is taunts and group taunts...which have a pretty sever recast...at least in PVP. In PVE...no problems with aggro. Computers "can't ignore me" while actual players can ignore or factor in the debuffs.

 

My main arguements are DPS and Healer can pretty quickly spam their "skills"...where's my spamminng?

 

MY defense cooldowns(the good one is on a 3min timer), while the small 15% saber throw defense buff is every so often.

 

Without resorting to focus guardian, can't guardian tanks have more spamming "guard" moves? Or have the effect last longer? Reflect was awesome..but 3 seconds is a very short window. I just feel like there's not more I can do for my team other than jump around..maybe stasis, maybe hiltstrike,...and so forth.

 

Covell, our "spamming" is guard, higher resistances, and damage reduction. Those aren't even 'spamming' -- they're just constant - which effectively makes it a 'passive' trait, even.

 

Besides, the true value of the REAL tank guardian/jugg is not with any DPS. Well-built and specced Defense/Immortal build guardian/juggs are about the most versatile PvP class in the game -- and the thing is, none of what we can do are measured and collected in the current stats.

 

We don't have to show anyone anything in numbers -- when you play a guardian/jugg well enought, people who are adept in PvP immediately notice how much contribution we are bringing in to the team BESIDES the protection provided. I see those Focus/Rage or Vigilance guardian/juggs, and well, frankly, to us Defense/Immortals they're like buffoons who have nothing much more to contribute than chase down one enemy as if it were a mara or a sent -- at the price of needing as much healing as any DPS. In short, they really aren't that impressive.

 

However, at least in my case I almost immediately realize the impact when a good Defense/Immortal guardian or jugg enters the scene.

 

 

IMO it's just a matter of how familiar and seasoned you become in it. Stay with the Defense build -- it's really worth it.

 

(ps) In my case, when playing my Defense guardian, on average I switch targets about 10 times within the span of 30 seconds. I practiced a lot in how to optimize my target-switching speed, which I use a mix of hotkeys and sometimes manual mouse-clicking, and I've gotten it up to the speed that I can almost immediately switch a target to anything I set my eyes on.

 

Most people don't realize this, but playing the real TANK smack in the middle of that big pile of blaster fire and lightsaber streaks, requires about the fastest target-switching abilities among all the classes in this game (along with a very high situational awareness).

 

I'd be smacking down one person, and as soon as someone else in some corner of my screen starts casting any kind of heal, I can re-target and press the Force Leap button onto him to force an initial interrupt within about 0.8 seconds(...add the activation time and its still enough to cancel out a 2.0~2.5sec casting heal) Cut his next heal with interrupt, cast a slow, find a terrain feature and Force Push him away, and then find an enemy target that's being attacked and not receiving any heals momentarily, Force Leap on to him and help our DPS in focusing for a short time, then see my healer getting attcked and immediately switch targets to him and Guardian Leap .

 

...and I'm not even a good player. There are heaps of better players than me and those guys have even faster reaction times to what's going on around them. There's literally no class/build in the game that can be literally jumping around everywhere and helping out everyone, at the same time guarding someone, dealing out AoE and ST taunts, and then CCing any enemy that needs to be CCd at the exact right moment. Only a Defense/Immortal guardian/jugg can do that with such efficiency.

 

This means, despite what some people may think, playign a tank guardian/jugg well is about one of the most complicated things to do in PvP. Compared to this, with no disrespect (...since I also love playing DPS as well...), playing a DPS is really so much easier and straightforward.

 

It needs a lot of practice, lot of brains, lot of experience (...and lot of failures and frustrations...) but in the end, its really worth it.

 

Don't go Focus/Rage, man. There's nothing there.

Edited May 24, 2013 by kweassa

[DimeStax]

you want them to be attacking the healer, other wize your guard on him is pointless and you cant taunt.

 

force slow is also alot less effective because healers are always running away while the enemy is slowed but the tank would still be trying to tank & dps them

 

Actually what you REALLY want is manageable damage that can be healed. For example, if 3 Smash Marauders and Juggs all time their Smashes to hit a DPS or Healer at the same time, that healer or DPS is going to be killed in 2 seconds which is un-healable. However, if you have guard on that person, the damage is mitigated and that person can essentially be healed through it.

 

Tanks eliminate spike and burst damage in PvP which is very important for dropping people before they use their cooldowns or get healed, but the damage doesn't just disappear it splits between the Guarder and the Guardee.

 

If the entire team is focusing on you (the tank) then their damage is being mitigated by your gear and defensive abilities which makes it healable damage, but at the same time your DPS and healers are allowed to free-cast giving them plenty of time to dish out massive DPS and keep the entire team alive. It's better for you and your team when the opposing side is attacking you and letting your team free-cast than when they're on your DPS and Healers keeping them locked down. Sure the damage is mitigated by guard, but your team is also dishing out less heals and DPS.

Edited May 24, 2013 by DimeStax

[hobrogaming]

What about stats for a guardian tank? Are we still stacking defense rating like pre 2.0?

[DimeStax]

What about stats for a guardian tank? Are we still stacking defense rating like pre 2.0?

 

No, you stack Endurance and take Absorb instead of Defense for PvP.

Edited May 24, 2013 by DimeStax

[dufox]

Actually what you REALLY want is manageable damage that can be healed. For example, if 3 Smash Marauders and Juggs all time their Smashes to hit a DPS or Healer at the same time, that healer or DPS is going to be killed in 2 seconds which is un-healable. However, if you have guard on that person, the damage is mitigated and that person can essentially be healed through it.

 

Tanks eliminate spike and burst damage in PvP which is very important for dropping people before they use their cooldowns or get healed.

 

If the entire team is focusing on you (the tank) then their damage is being mitigated by your gear and defensive abilities which makes it healable damage, but at the same time your DPS and healers are allowed to free-cast giving them plenty of time to dish out massive DPS and keep the entire team alive. It's better for you and your team when the opposing side is attacking you and letting your team free-cast than when they're on your DPS and Healers keeping them locked down. Sure the damage is mitigated by guard, but your team is also dishing out less heals and DPS.

 

your right but your also talking advanced strategies in a "tanking 101 class" if the topic starter tried to do that he would prolly not like the results lol

(i dont mean that as an insult to anyone)

Edited May 24, 2013 by dufox

[DimeStax]

double post. Edited May 24, 2013 by DimeStax

[funkiestj]

 

Tanks eliminate spike and burst damage in PvP which is very important for dropping people before they use their cooldowns or get healed, but the damage doesn't just disappear it splits between the Guarder and the Guardee.

 

assuming the guardee is a squishy (medium or light armor) and not another tank ... total damage done is reduced by guarding because the damage redirected to the tank is mitigated at the tank's higher mitigation level. I haven't done any experiments to confirm but I've read that shield applies to guard redirected damage. EDIT: I also recall hearing that defense applies to guard redirected damage. I have no supporting citations.

 

Speaking math, this is

 

let d be the damage of an attack

let ms be the mitigation of the squishy guardee

let mt be the mitigation of the tank doing the guarding

 

claim: mt > ms

 

therefore

 

d * ms > 0.5 * d * ms + 0.5 * d * mt

 

I.e. total damage done by the attack is reduced.

Edited May 24, 2013 by funkiestj

[DimeStax]

assuming the guardee is a squishy (medium or light armor) and not another tank ... total damage done is reduced by guarding because the damage redirected to the tank is mitigated at the tank's higher mitigation level. I haven't done any experiments to confirm but I've read that shield applies to guard redirected damage. EDIT: I also recall hearing that defense applies to guard redirected damage. I have no supporting citations.

 

Speaking math, this is

 

let d be the damage of an attack

let ms be the mitigation of the squishy guardee

let mt be the mitigation of the tank doing the guarding

 

claim: mt > ms

 

therefore

 

d * ms > 0.5 * d * ms + 0.5 * d * mt

 

I.e. total damage done by the attack is reduced.

 

Hey Fitz .

 

You are correct.

 

1st - Guard damage calculates all incoming damage and immediately wipes 5% off of it (this 5% damage reduction is part of the Guard bonus).

2nd - Guard immediately cuts the remaining value of damage in half and directs 50% of it toward the Guardee and the other 50% toward the Guarder.

3rd - the damage then independently passes through both the Guarder and the Guardee's defensive stats separately, thus with higher defensive stats the Guarder takes significantly less damage from the 50% of damage that is directed toward him than the Guardee. Shield, Defense, Absorb and all defensive cooldowns are all taken into consideration when the tank receives guard damage.

 

My point was that the damage doesn't just disappear. The posters before me made the statement that it was better for your team when the opposite team attacked your teams DPS and Healers instead of attacking the Tank, but I pointed out that it actually works more in the tanks favor if they attack them instead of the DPS and healers because it allows the DPS and Healers to free cast and the damage is still being mitigated the same (remember DPS should be taunting as well too. I'm looking at you DPS Shadows, Vanguards, and Guardians ).

 

As long as you have a healer, you WANT them to try and focus fire you as a tank, but if they don't (like most won't) then you can still fulfill your tanking duties with Guard/Taunts.

Edited May 24, 2013 by DimeStax

[funkiestj]

My point was that the damage doesn't just disappear. The posters before me made the statement that it was better for your team when the opposite team attacked your teams DPS and Healers instead of attacking the Tank, but I pointed out that it actually works more in the tanks favor if they attack them instead of the DPS and healers because it allows the DPS and Healers to free cast and the damage is still being mitigated the same.

 

I'm glad to see many of my old BC mates are still around

 

Yeah, I was quibbling. If we look only at the total damage of an attack, there is more total damage when the attacker attacks the tank rather than the guardee unless

 

2 * mt >= ms

 

We need to look at the above for both white and yellow damage. I think it is always true for yellow but I don't know the typical white damage mitigation numbers.

 

The bigger picture takes into account how the guardee performs under the two scenarios (free casting vs harrassed). The bigger picture may include a DPS taunting an attacker who starts focusing the tank .

 

Of course we do not get to CHOSE what the attacker does -- if we did we would chose for him to not use any abilities

 

===================

math for 2 * mt >= ms

 

 

let 'd' be the damage of the attack

let 'dg' = 0.95 * d // damage after guard 5% reduction applied

let 'dt' = 0.7 * d // taunt reduction for not attacking the taunter

let 'dtg' = 0.7 * 0.95 * d // attacker is taunted and attacking guardee

 

let 'ms' = mitigation of squishee guardee

let 'mt' = mitigation of the tank

 

 

total damage when taunted attacker attacks guardee:

 

0.5 * dtg * ms + 0.5 * dtg * mt

 

or

 

0.3325 * d * ms + 0.3325 * d * mt

 

total damage when taunted attacker attacks guard

 

d * mt // no 5% guard bonus, no taunt reduction

 

 

if we set these two to be equal and solve for mt we get:

 

 

d * mt = 0.3325 * d * ms + 0.3325 * d * mt

 

0.6675 * d * mt = 0.3325 * d * ms

 

2 * mt = ms // actually 2.00751879699 ...

 

so if the tank's mitigation is 2x (or more) than the guardee's

mitigation we get less total damage if the attacker attacks the tank.