Really now a days why can't soloers get end game comms from ...

[Radzkie]

This is an MMO, not a single-player PC/console game.

 

Take away the need to play with others at endgame and it's no longer desirable for those who like....well...MMOs.

 

As much as I like this game, if they started to give away top-teir endgame gear for crappy/simple heroics, I'd leave. I could live with replaying KOTOR for my SW gaming fixes.

Edited May 19, 2013 by Radzkie

[Murasakikitsune]

This is an MMO, not a solo game.

 

End game content belong in end game operations and instances and will require you to team up.

 

Why play MMO if you want to Solo? Go play a solo game and you'll be able to get everything you want.

 

I don't think this is necessarily relevant. It's more a matter of risk and reward; overcoming challenges and earning something for doing so.

 

If this can be done for solo players that is just as engaging (solo ops?), then sure I suppose. But multiplayer operations are where the real fun of end-game PvE is.

[Lostpenguins]

Lame excuse. Gear is the only way to progress your toon at endgame. Soloers don't want to just stop and wait for an expansion. God forbid people had a choice between how they wanted to advance. Raiders are so insecure about their gear they think that if people arent FORCED to raid no one will.

Actually, it's a lame excuse to demand that the game cater to way you play it.

 

In this game, there are many things to do, and many things to obtain. If you want to obtain it all, you have to do everything in this game. It is not design by democracy. You want end game pvp, then do pvp. You want end game pve, then do the end game pve stuff (operations).

 

Simple as that.

[mike_is_valid]

The OP got a valid point IMO. Gear progression is a major aspect of the end game scenario. It has nothing to do with "need" at all. This game is full with items noone needs, but want to have. There is no need to have a speeder, enough taxis and QT points are around. No need for dyes and pets etc.

I support the idea to open a way even for solo players to get top level gear, obviously this should be "hard to get" and not a simply hand out but a method should be available.

What many raiders fail to realize is that they are privileged to be part of a raiding team, this option is not available to everyone. There are plenty of players who would love to go into ops, but can't. A GF for ops never pops (at least on my server), even 55 HM FP don't pop.

Its not always that people are too lame or lazy to do ops, it just doesn't happen.

[DarthTHC]

The OP got a valid point IMO. Gear progression is a major aspect of the end game scenario. It has nothing to do with "need" at all. This game is full with items noone needs, but want to have. There is no need to have a speeder, enough taxis and QT points are around. No need for dyes and pets etc.

I support the idea to open a way even for solo players to get top level gear, obviously this should be "hard to get" and not a simply hand out but a method should be available.

What many raiders fail to realize is that they are privileged to be part of a raiding team, this option is not available to everyone. There are plenty of players who would love to go into ops, but can't. A GF for ops never pops (at least on my server), even 55 HM FP don't pop.

Its not always that people are too lame or lazy to do ops, it just doesn't happen.

 

Do you also support a way for PvE players to get the top tier PvP gear... without doing any PvP?

 

There is no "privilege" to being on a raiding team. Anyone who takes the time to figure out how to play their class and gear up will be accepted into a raiding guild. It's not very difficult, but it does require learning how to play correctly. And probably not being an asocial moron. But you never know with some guilds, maybe that last bit isn't really a requirement.

 

The "privilege" being asked for here is for players to obtain gear without undertaking the effort and making the commitment to actually earning it. And that's pathetic.

Edited May 20, 2013 by DarthTHC

[Mikeaj]

Do you also support a way for PvE players to get the top tier PvP gear... without doing any PvP?

 

There is no "privilege" to being on a raiding team. Anyone who takes the time to figure out how to play their class and gear up will be accepted into a raiding guild. It's not very difficult, but it does require learning how to play correctly. And probably not being an asocial moron. But you never know with some guilds, maybe that last bit isn't really a requirement.

 

The "privilege" being asked for here is for players to obtain gear without undertaking the effort and making the commitment to actually earning it. And that's pathetic.

 

First operations are PVE content just like heroics, flashpoints, class stories, planet quests, and dailys. Your first point is an apples to oranges comparison. Here is the equivalent scenario, it would be like only getting the best PVP gear through open world PVP on a PVE sever that has very low population and no PVP zones like lawless sands. Sure it would be doable and lots of people would but its a needless pain.

 

Second the reason why raids arent an option for everyone is because of the time constraint. Life gets in most peoples ways and they dont have the time to spend 2-3 hours playing constantly. They dont have the ability to make gaming appointments that raiding guilds demand. They would rather play the game then wait on fleet to coordinate a group or wait for AFKs while raiding. I randomly found a group to do scum and villiany story more that took 2 and half hours to make it to the third boss. Half the people were in top of the line gear and knew what to do, we didnt come close to wiping yet it still took that long because there was no sense of urgency and we ended up waiting 20 mins after every pull to wait for one reason or another.

 

And third people are not asking for BIS gear for running daily's or mindless grinding. They are asking for an alternate path that could even be more difficult and challenging to undertake (half the pro raiders are being carried by their teams anyway). Not crafting, not purchasing from the GTN, one that can get from playing the game like all the stages before max level. They are asking for a capstone to PVE content that doesnt share the flaws that exist in end game raiding. Raiding is not an MMO, its an aspect of a MMO (like crafting and PVP) and it being the capstone is a bit tiresome.

[DarthTHC]

First operations are PVE content just like heroics, flashpoints, class stories, planet quests, and dailys. Your first point is an apples to oranges comparison. Here is the equivalent scenario, it would be like only getting the best PVP gear through open world PVP on a PVE sever that has very low population and no PVP zones like lawless sands. Sure it would be doable and lots of people would but its a needless pain.

 

No, it's apples-to-apples. Raiding gear (the stuff that drops in raids) is obtained via Raiding. Likewise, PvP gear is earned by PvP'ing. Space gear is obtained by doing space missions.

 

You can't get Raiding gear by PvP'ing or doing space missions. You can't get space gear by raiding or doing PvP. You can't get PvP gear by raiding or doing space missions.

 

Second the reason why raids arent an option for everyone is because of the time constraint. Life gets in most peoples ways and they dont have the time to spend 2-3 hours playing constantly. They dont have the ability to make gaming appointments that raiding guilds demand. They would rather play the game then wait on fleet to coordinate a group or wait for AFKs while raiding. I randomly found a group to do scum and villiany story more that took 2 and half hours to make it to the third boss. Half the people were in top of the line gear and knew what to do, we didnt come close to wiping yet it still took that long because there was no sense of urgency and we ended up waiting 20 mins after every pull to wait for one reason or another.

 

Yes, there is a time constraint to raiding. You can't log in, raid for 30 minutes, then leave.

 

Those people should be intelligent enough to understand that and not expect raiding gear. Just like people who've never been PvP flagged should never expect PvP gear. Just like people who never run space missions should never expect to get certain ship upgrades.

 

The math isn't all that hard.

 

And third people are not asking for BIS gear for running daily's or mindless grinding. They are asking for an alternate path that could even be more difficult and challenging to undertake (half the pro raiders are being carried by their teams anyway). Not crafting, not purchasing from the GTN, one that can get from playing the game like all the stages before max level. They are asking for a capstone to PVE content that doesnt share the flaws that exist in end game raiding. Raiding is not an MMO, its an aspect of a MMO (like crafting and PVP) and it being the capstone is a bit tiresome.

 

Raiding is an aspect of an MMO. Absolutely. So is PvP. In this game, so is the space rollercoaster. So is soloing.

 

You can get amazing gear by soloing. You can very easily deck yourself out in gear that's all L69 purple. Once you are decked out like that, assuming you can play with a modicum of skill, the only thing in the solo game that may present a challenge to you is on-level Heroic 2. And by challenge, I mean you might actually see your health bar go down.

 

So soloists can obtain gear that makes them pretty freaking powerful soloists just by... soloing.

 

PvP players can obtain gear that makes them pretty freaking powerful PvP'ers just by... PvP'ing.

 

Space junkies can obtain gear that makes them pretty freaking powerful roller-coaster riders by... doing space missions.

 

And Raiders can obtain gear that makes them moderately powerful Raiders by... Raiding.

 

See how all that works? Nice and parallel. You obtain the best gear for the type of game you want to play by playing that type of game.

 

It's a brilliant design, really. It means that players who enjoy playing a certain way are never forced to play a different way to advance in their ability to play the way they want to play. Raiders never have to PvP to get better at raiding. PvP'ers never have to Raid to get better at PvP'ing. People who like space missions can focus on that. Soloists can solo to their heart's content without ever having to socialize.

[Mikeaj]

First its not raiding gear, its PVE gear it doesnt have a bolster that only helps in raiding content. Its gear the gives sizable bonus to all content. If it was actual raiding gear that only granted bonuses in raiding no one would be asking for other ways to get it.

 

Second there are reasons outside of raiding that people want top of the line gear. Like making up for poor teammates in flashpoints, taking out champion level enemies, running daily's faster, or soloing heroics (including Heroic 4s). Hell most people just want to feel powerful, its fun to work towards gear that just lets you smash things that used to be hard.

 

Taking your example, PVP gear doesn't give you an advantage over other players in PVE or space missions, Space combat doesn't give you an advantage in PVP or PVE either. Why does "raiding" gear give you an advantage PVE that isnt raiding. Hell it gives you an advantage in PVP too, try going up against someone in 72s while you are in 66s.

Edited May 20, 2013 by Mikeaj

[Andryah]

Actually, it's a lame excuse to demand that the game cater to way you play it.

 

In this game, there are many things to do, and many things to obtain. If you want to obtain it all, you have to do everything in this game. It is not design by democracy. You want end game pvp, then do pvp. You want end game pve, then do the end game pve stuff (operations).

 

Simple as that.

 

I agree with Lostpenguins.

[Andryah]

Second there are reasons outside of raiding that people want top of the line gear. Like making up for poor teammates in flashpoints, taking out champion level enemies, running daily's faster, or soloing heroics (including Heroic 4s).

 

Raiding gear should come from doing raiding progression content IMO. That is why it exists.... it's part of the progression desgin. It's not to be solo aquired IMO. As stated earlier by others... the modable gear system in this MMO makes it so a soloer can get gear plenty good enough to achieve your claim without trivializing raiding gear down to solo access levels of play. Raid gear is designed for OPs progression.

 

Hell most people just want to feel powerful, its fun to work towards gear that just lets you smash things that used to be hard.

 

If that is the actual need, then just go gank some content 2-4 levels below you. You will smash it and it won't be hard.

Edited May 20, 2013 by Andryah

[Eitetsu]

Solo players don't need 72s. They don't even need 69s. You can get all the stuff you need to do your "solo work" with basic comms (Arkanian relics and 66 mods) just by running dailies and the *occasional* FP as your busy schedule permits.

 

If you want Arkanian and Underworld set bonuses and such, rearrange your schedule, find a guild that suits your needs, and get it going. If you're unwilling to do that, then I guess that set of 69 and 72 gear isn't really all that important to you, is it? You'll just have to settle for 66.

[Andryah]

Solo players don't need 72s. They don't even need 69s. You can get all the stuff you need to do your "solo work" with basic comms (Arkanian relics and 66 mods) just by running dailies and the *occasional* FP as your busy schedule permits.

 

If you want Arkanian and Underworld set bonuses and such, rearrange your schedule, find a guild that suits your needs, and get it going. If you're unwilling to do that, then I guess that set of 69 and 72 gear isn't really all that important to you, is it? You'll just have to settle for 66.

 

^^ exactly.

[Mikeaj]

Raiding gear should come from doing raiding progression content IMO. That is why it exists.... it's part of the progression desgin. It's not to be solo aquired IMO. As stated earlier by others... the modable gear system in this MMO makes it so a soloer can get gear plenty good enough to achieve your claim without trivializing raiding gear down to solo access levels of play. Raid gear is designed for OPs progression.

 

 

 

If that is the actual need, then just go gank some content 2-4 levels below you. You will smash it and it won't be hard.

 

Except its not raiding gear. There is no raiding gear in this game, raiding gear would have a bolster that only helps in raids. Its the highest end PVE gear.

[shadowrouge]

PvP is diffrent cause it's pvp. Endgame gear is classified as PvE gear which is more then just raiding. And I know im biased but I don't give a hell what pvpers get lol this is an RPG not a FPS.

 

Ok you WANT BW to give you a way to get Raid gear with out raiding. Yet you can give a ratsass about someone wanting PVP gear with out PVPing. Not very sympathic and you should have request denied. You cant scream give me give me and yet tell someone else wanting something similar that they dont count.

[Mistress_Ivi]

Okay... you will need the following items in order to actually fully gear up your character(s) to 69 grade.

 

Main -> Cybertech or Artifice + crew skills

Alt 1 -> one of the above.

Alt 2 -> Gathering skills - slicing / treasure hunting / scavenging

 

Run several hardmodes (solo qued) until you've deconstructed enough mods to learn all you need to min-max.

 

Run PvP once a day, solo. Twice or more if you end up liking it. Buy the Relics from PvP vendor.

 

Makeb required. -> GSI questline, seekerdroids.

 

Treasure hunt, until you find mass generators and the blue of same grade. Or use credits.

 

Craft 30's with mats.

 

???

 

Play.

[Podrik]

I love star wars but im getting ready to unsub (again) cause I have Nothing worthwhile to do at endgame. I want to keep being able to upgrade and progress my toon until the next expansion comes out but I don't want to be Forced to raid. Im a husband and a father I can't stand having my game time and experience be dependent on other players and I don't want to be glued to the computer chair for hours on end.

 

I know im not alone on this but unfortunatly most forum responders are raiders.

 

If you don't want to rely on others to progress your character then sadly an MMO is not for you dude. I'm a father and an ex husband and while I do not raid anymore it used to be a big part of my MMO life to prepare and execute raids with my friends (both ingame and irl).

 

An MMO caters to so many opinions and playstyles but if you want the best gear, the coolest speeders and so on you need to pucker up for a big *** kiss and join the raids or ranked pvp.

 

Getting everything that raiders get or that ranked pvp players get for free without effort kills a game. Maybe not at once but slowly it will decay until all the raiders and ranked pvp'ers has left the game for something else and left standing alone is the casual player in his/hers shiny armor with absolutely nothing to do.

 

Personally, I would love to get all that gear I see lvl 55's use. Some sets are so cool that I get an e-***** everytime. Will I get it? Probably not, maybe some of the PvP gear since that is my scene but not likely to get into ranked games anytime soon but this does not discourage me from playing the game.

 

Anywho, most people these days buy the armor sets from Cartel Market anyways and buy mods for commendations. To sum it up.. If you want to mod your gear with raid mods, get your butt into a raid group. If you want that expertise in your gear for pvp, then get your butt into a pvp group.

 

Easy, simple and it gives you something to do while the kids and wife are sleeping.

[dcgregorya]

Heroic daily/weekly solo quests? Everyone wants to upgrade their toon at end game not just Raiders and if anything it would allow more people to do Raids if they wanted too.

 

For whatever reason other people in this thread won't just admit that top end, min/max'd gear is a status symbol for raiders. Why do you think you deserve to have that status symbol after just running dailies for way too many weeks on end? Top end gear signifies completing the content, not just putting tons of time into the same dailies over and over and over and over.

 

Reputation is the solo PVE'ers status symbol. Raiders and PVP'ers have their gear sets and mounts. That's how the game is designed.

 

If you want solo PVE status symbol types of gear that is BiS I don't have a problem with that but I'd imagine then solo content would have to be made much more difficult. Like enrage timers, mechanics similar to archon fight, etc...Would actually be awesome, but I'm sure people would cry to nerf it .

Edited May 20, 2013 by dcgregorya

[JimG]

So the OP wants to get end-game gear without running end-game content? Ok, that makes no sense. You can stomp your way through all the solo content without Ops quality gear. Why would anyone "earn" the best gear in the game by just rolling through a bunch of easy dailies and weeklies? If you really want better gear, then you can buy some better mods off the GTN....you won't be able to get set bonuses but your dailies and weeklies should already be ridiculously easy enough as it is.

[DarthTHC]

Except its not raiding gear. There is no raiding gear in this game, raiding gear would have a bolster that only helps in raids. Its the highest end PVE gear.

 

Yes, it -is- raiding gear. It is obtained by raiding. Its purpose is to help elevate the raiders who obtain it by raiding to be better raiders.

 

Just because it doesn't have a "special" stat like the PvP gear does doesn't mean it's not for a specialized purpose.

 

Seriously, who is this crowd wanting the hand-outs?

 

I picture the kids who got trophies for participating and that's all that's on mommy and daddy's mantle. If they're old enough to drive, they MIGHT have a driver's license. But they've never driven the car without an adult sitting right next to them - almost always parent, uncle, or aunt. They might go to college but if they do, it's a community college close enough to home that mom or dad can drop them at class on their way to work.

 

Their hands have no callouses. They've never done a chore - mowed the lawn, vacuumed the great room, washed the dishes, and heaven forbid picked up dog crap. They've never held a job.

 

In high school, if the school even allowed such things, they were selected last or next-to-last for whatever the gym class was doing that day. Or the science or math team. Either way, still last.

 

 

If you want raiding gear, man up and learn how to play your character's role properly in a group. Do a Google search or heck go to the right board right on this forum and read about how to itemize yourself properly. Watch boss strat videos. Then apply to a raiding guild. If you've done all the stuff prior to "apply to a raiding guild" and you possess a modicum of social aptitude, they will accept you.

 

Then set aside 2-3 straight hours once or twice a week and get the gear.

 

It's really not that difficult. Especially in this game.

 

If you can't be bothered to expend minimal effort to obtain the gear, then admit to yourself that it is your choice not to get it and be happy with the things you do choose to do.

Edited May 20, 2013 by DarthTHC

[asbalana]

 

Easy, simple and it gives you something to do while the kids and wife are sleeping.

 

I am a father and not ex-husband. When my wife is in bed, so am I. Just saying.

[DarthTHC]

I am a father and not ex-husband. When my wife is in bed, so am I. Just saying.

 

If you choose to do things other than raiding, that is your choice. You should be happy with the results, both with the things you choose not to do and the things you choose to do.

 

If you are unhappy with the results, choose differently.

 

But I'm guessing you're happy with the results.

[Andryah]

Except its not raiding gear. There is no raiding gear in this game, raiding gear would have a bolster that only helps in raids. Its the highest end PVE gear.

 

Nonsense.

 

This whole "bolster" to PvE gear for raiding is complete dumb-sauce IMO.

[Lostpenguins]

If you choose to do things other than raiding, that is your choice. You should be happy with the results, both with the things you choose not to do and the things you choose to do.

 

If you are unhappy with the results, choose differently.

 

But I'm guessing you're happy with the results.

Yeah, I'm not sure why people try to play the RL card... that they have too many obligations and such. Well, then maybe this isn't the game for you. You don't sign-up to join your friends in a bowling league when you know you have too many things in your life that occupy or demand your time, do you? This is not different.

 

There's playing of things for the soloist or person who's on time constraints to do in this game. Raiding requires time coordination with at least 7 other people... you are a special snow-flake and deserve to get everything handed to you because you cannot do that.

[Andryah]

For whatever reason other people in this thread won't just admit that top end, min/max'd gear is a status symbol for raiders.

 

While I agree that raiders treat raid gear as a status symbol in many cases, to me it is simply a tool for the trade.

 

If you don't raid, you don't need raid level gear. And unlike some other MMOs, this one actually gives solo players a way to get end game gear that is sufficient for everything except cake-walking raids.

 

In the end.. this is the old "I'm a solo player and I deserve raid gear too" thread topic. It's what drove welfare gear in WoW and it does not need to take root in this MMO. Why? because a welfare gear system just creates tension between players.

[theUndead]

I'm trying to understand this topic. You can get elite comms through solo content. You can also get Ultimate comms just by using group finder each week 3 times which is on the level of quick solo content. You just get these items considerably slower.

 

I wouldnt mine a separate comm system for crafters or for those that do space missions. You could even make it work for soloers. Just make it as involved as raiding. Give ultimate comms from crafting and space missions different bonuses related to there respective jobs. Crafting ultimate gear would give bonuses to critical crafting chances as well as boosts to companion crafting with a complete set. Space mission ultimate gear would give bonuses to your ships health and shield with a complete set improving damage.

 

Now for a soloing set of ultimate gear for doing some involved use of dailies and weekly's they could give a bonus to presence.

 

Separate the gear with only the most minor of stat changes. Such as Crafting and Space mission ultimate gear providing slightly less damage then Raid ultimate gear and Solo ultimate gear providing less endurance then raid gear and you have an entire new wave of progression to keep your fanbase happy.

 

Of course change the name of the comms. So craftings version of ultimate comms would be perfectionist comms and so forth.

 

I dont think the issue is raiders want to be the only ones with the best gear they just dont want others to get the same gear with less work.

 

I agree with this 100%. I have no problem with solo instances for solo players who wish to progress their toons. What I do have a problem with is the watering down of current operations for soloists. This to me would be a huge slap in the face to dedicated raiders who put time and effort into completing the content because if the operations allowed companions or something it would trivialize the content.

 

So I reiterate as long as the solo instances provide the same diffculty and effort then it's fine by me. But I do not condone at all the changing of current Raids.