So.. Account Wide Datacrons

[Ratajack]

Ha! Just keep dismissing constructive posts.

 

Your little crusade to stop the ball from rolling down the hill is amusing, if not already illogical.

 

Pointing out that it may be more difficult than someone with no knowledge of what is involved wants to make it to be is dismissing constructive posts? I don't think it is.

[Ratajack]

Traveler, I see what you are saying but I honestly don't think there is a debate here. You have one vocal forum user who doesn't want his efforts trivialized because he spends way too much time in front of a PC. Good for him. He did it on multiple characters. The fact of the matter is people have been asking for legacy datacrons from day 1. Everyone agrees that you should find it once (or once per faction) and only THEN is it a legacy perk.

 

I find it awesome that some of you have attempted to bridge the gap but there is no debate really. Unlocking same datacron multiple time on different characters is a useless timesink that adds zero value to the game. You prove you can get it once and then apply it to all characters.

 

It would appear that some people have trouble counting. There is more than one poster in this thread alone that is against legacy datacrons, let alone those who posted int he various other threads regarding this subject.

[Ratajack]

No. Its a legacy unlock AFTER you have found it at least once.

 

That makes it no less P2W if you are paying to get those stats on any character. It simple would mean that you cannot P2W on ONE character, the one that you use to find all the datacrons.

[Ratajack]

I agree on that they do matter, but I don't share your conclusion that they have to remain to be earned with every character again. It is the because of the reason that they are not just insignificant like the lore objects, where nobody care if he or she misses a few, that we are asking for at legacy wide datacrons.

 

That is petfish's point. You want the stats, but don't want to actually earn them. You want them handed to you. If There were no stats involved, it would be a non-issue.

[Kissakias]

Personally i dont mind so much BUT

if they ever do this, i want to be RETROACTIVE

[Ratajack]

I wish the anti-legacy datacrons people would bother to learn even a little bit about economics. Let me sum up something:

 

Buying something with money is earning it. The whole concept of money is related to delayed barter - I do some work now, I get paid in money, which can be exchanged for unspecified benefits later.

 

So if someone buys a perk with cartel coins they did earn it, they did work for it. They worked at their job, not at the game, but I guess doing actual useful work for society makes them lazy.

 

If someone buys a perk with in-game credits they still had to play the game to earn them. Even "rich" players with tens of millions of credits or more got that way by studying the game and learning the economy, which takes effort.

 

How dare you denigrate these people's effort and work, calling them lazy because their exact choice of how to enjoy their game or their hard-earned money doesn't agree with yours. Nobody had asked for legacy datacrons to just be freely granted; everybody expects there to be some sort of cost like most legacy perks. It just makes the cost of earning them different, not smaller.

 

P.S. Every time you make the argument that players are lazy because they want to buy things with money instead of "earning" them, I wonder...do you buy food with money? I guess you didn't "earn" it unless you grew it yourself from wild seeds, you lazy self-entitled person you. I guess you programmed a copy of this game for yourself because only a lazy player would buy it. Feel free to mentally add examples of every other thing in your life that costs money.

 

You can't buy a super bowl championship. You must EARN it. Sure, the owner can stack the roster a bit, but those players still have to actually get to the super bowl and then win.

 

Some things cannot be bought, even if you think that buying something is still earning it. Some things must actually be earned through the effort of obtaining them and not just obtaining enough money to buy them.

[Ratajack]

That's irrelevant. The stat boost, while matters, is minor. People can already unlock a +41 power (or whatever) crystal at level 10. You can already buy power.

 

Bioware obviously isn't concerned about it. You can ship bound equipment to an alt for cryin out loud! It doesn't matter to them. And if they really need to they could lock out the legacy purchase until level 50 or something similar. That would suffice for people complaining about buying power.

 

Again, you ignore the fact that if you choose to send a mod to an alt, there is only ONE mod to send. You cannot duplicate that mod and just give it to your alt. If you send that mod to an alt, the sender no longer has it. This is vastly different than creating INFINITE sets of datacron stat bonuses and just having them given to your alts.

[Ratajack]

You can't tell that to some of these folks because to they equate their work to in game work. The amount of time they spend doing XYZ defines them so they defend the archaic ways of doing things just to keep THEIR efforts from being trivialized. Its kind of crazy. No one here is asking for free datacrons. They are only asking to be able to apply it to a character AFTER they put in the effort to find it once.

 

And its clear bioware has heard the request. At least they are looking at it.

 

If it helps you sleep at night, keep on believing that, despite the evidence to the contrary.

 

I guess that statement that Eric made AFTER the one from Jesse means nothing.

[DarthTHC]

Like pit bulls, both sides of this discussion latch on and fight to the bitter end, never letting go.

 

Yet it's irrelevant, isn't it? The developers have said that implementing any sort of account-wide datacron sharing would require a re-write of the entire datacron system.

 

In other words: Not going to happen.

 

Doesn't matter what we want, or don't want, the answer has been given.

 

Wouldn't it be more productive to debate something for which the final answer has not yet been given, or something for which the developers have actually asked for more of our feedback?

[Arkerus]

Again, you ignore the fact that if you choose to send a mod to an alt, there is only ONE mod to send. You cannot duplicate that mod and just give it to your alt. If you send that mod to an alt, the sender no longer has it. This is vastly different than creating INFINITE sets of datacron stat bonuses and just having them given to your alts.

 

Its a different process but its still the same concept. (And adding a mod to legacy equipment is GIVING it to your alt, as much as you pretend that its not. How do you now see that?)

 

Bioware doesn't care about small boosts of power. That is evident from the fact that you can buy and share power from the CM and between characters. How convenient you ignored legacy crystals. Is that a handout now? By your definition its a handout and you should be protesting against it.

 

No one is asking for a handout. Everyone has to find it first. Then it can be added to you legacy characters.

 

I'm sorry you slaved over it on multiple characters. Really I am. But forcing people to do it multiple times is useless and adds ZERO value to the game.

[Arkerus]

If it helps you sleep at night, keep on believing that, despite the evidence to the contrary.

 

I guess that statement that Eric made AFTER the one from Jesse means nothing.

 

I am well aware its not going to happen anytime soon. I am simply pointing out how silly it is to want it NOT to happen.

 

Its a shame though, would be great for alts.

[Grayseven]

Again, you ignore the fact that if you choose to send a mod to an alt, there is only ONE mod to send. You cannot duplicate that mod and just give it to your alt. If you send that mod to an alt, the sender no longer has it. This is vastly different than creating INFINITE sets of datacron stat bonuses and just having them given to your alts.

 

You're reaching Ratajack.

 

One extra augments worth of stat isn't all that much either, but for some reason earning it once and being able to share it with your alts...like so much of the Legacy system...trips your trigger.

 

Tell me, have you ever geared up a level 50 character by buying classic comm gear on your alts and sending it via legacy armors to the 50? You didn't earn that gear on your 50...

 

Ditto the 55 gear. Legacy Datacrons are much the same thing albeit on a much smaller scale but I don't see you rampaging about being able to transfer BoP mods through legacy gear.

 

Making a system that provides a benefit so minor as to not matter in the grand scheme of things and then making that system time consuming and tedious on one character let alone for doing it on all characters is nothing more than bad game design.

 

Your crusade is amusing in that you seem to be in a very small minority that seem to enjoy boring tedious grinds and there are so many bigger problems that could use your intensity.

[Arkerus]

then you can do it again but its always optional. If you want to argue for a "in-game vendor that has the base requirement of Level and have already found that datacron" sure go nuts but i don't support legacy menu (OH NO CARTEL COIN UNLOCK) Ive said it 3 times in this thread and ill say it again because you people can't seem to get my point.

 

IF this gets set in the legacy menu and has the option to purchase the unlock with CARTEL COINS you won't need to have the base requirement of already finding them…. CARTEL COINS bypass the system's code…. I don't know why bioware has set it up this way but for some reason you can unlock EVERYTHING in the legacy menu with CARTEL COINS at lv 1 <--- this is my point. People who never found any of them will unlock all of them WITH CARTEL COINS.

 

There are crystals you can buy that aren't random.

[Grayseven]

Like pit bulls, both sides of this discussion latch on and fight to the bitter end, never letting go.

 

Yet it's irrelevant, isn't it? The developers have said that implementing any sort of account-wide datacron sharing would require a re-write of the entire datacron system.

 

In other words: Not going to happen.

 

Doesn't matter what we want, or don't want, the answer has been given.

 

Wouldn't it be more productive to debate something for which the final answer has not yet been given, or something for which the developers have actually asked for more of our feedback?

 

From the Chicago Cantina Crawl, it is something they want to do but aren't sure how they can implement it.

 

Again, remember, the Legacy storage was impossible until they announced it was coming in the next x-pac.

[Ratajack]

Its a different process but its still the same concept. (And adding a mod to legacy equipment is GIVING it to your alt, as much as you pretend that its not. How do you now see that?)

 

Bioware doesn't care about small boosts of power. That is evident from the fact that you can buy and share power from the CM and between characters. How convenient you ignored legacy crystals. Is that a handout now? By your definition its a handout and you should be protesting against it.

 

No one is asking for a handout. Everyone has to find it first. Then it can be added to you legacy characters.

 

I'm sorry you slaved over it on multiple characters. Really I am. But forcing people to do it multiple times is useless and adds ZERO value to the game.

 

If you GIVE that mod to an alt, does the giver still have it? NO. It's totally different with datacrons. You want to give the stat bonuses to your alts, while at the same time keeping those bonuses for the giver.

 

Even if you find the datacrons ONCE on ONE character, you are still asking for a handout for your alts so that they can have the boosts without finding the datacrons.

 

There was a suggestion earlier that involved a holoviewer that could be "charged" and was BOL so it could be sent to alts. This would make legacy datacrons equivalent to sending mods through BOL gear as the sender would no longer have that holoviewer.

 

I'm sorry that you are too lazy to find them on every character, but handing out stat bonuses for free would detract from the game, IMO.

[DarthTHC]

If you GIVE that mod to an alt, does the giver still have it? NO. It's totally different with datacrons. You want to give the stat bonuses to your alts, while at the same time keeping those bonuses for the giver.

 

Even if you find the datacrons ONCE on ONE character, you are still asking for a handout for your alts so that they can have the boosts without finding the datacrons.

 

There was a suggestion earlier that involved a holoviewer that could be "charged" and was BOL so it could be sent to alts. This would make legacy datacrons equivalent to sending mods through BOL gear as the sender would no longer have that holoviewer.

 

I'm sorry that you are too lazy to find them on every character, but handing out stat bonuses for free would detract from the game, IMO.

 

Rocket Boost.

 

We're not getting the feature anyway, but Rocket Boost invalidates your "item must be transferred" argument.

 

Also, there's the relevance question to the "item must be transferred" argument. If I have an endgame character decked out in 72-78 gear and a bunch of Elite commendations sitting around, any mods I buy with those and send to an alt would be useless to my main anyway.

 

But, yeah, we're still not getting legacy datacrons. If you have trouble jumping precisely because of network connection or physical challenges, well, that's just tough, right? And even though Ratajack doesn't want to use a legacy datacron feature, he will be forced to use it if it is ever implemented so it's evil, right?

[Ratajack]

You're reaching Ratajack.

 

One extra augments worth of stat isn't all that much either, but for some reason earning it once and being able to share it with your alts...like so much of the Legacy system...trips your trigger.

 

Tell me, have you ever geared up a level 50 character by buying classic comm gear on your alts and sending it via legacy armors to the 50? You didn't earn that gear on your 50...

 

Ditto the 55 gear. Legacy Datacrons are much the same thing albeit on a much smaller scale but I don't see you rampaging about being able to transfer BoP mods through legacy gear.

 

Making a system that provides a benefit so minor as to not matter in the grand scheme of things and then making that system time consuming and tedious on one character let alone for doing it on all characters is nothing more than bad game design.

 

Your crusade is amusing in that you seem to be in a very small minority that seem to enjoy boring tedious grinds and there are so many bigger problems that could use your intensity.

 

If you send that level 55 mod from your main to an alt, does your main still have it? NO.

 

 

If you buy ONE piece of level 55 gear and use BOL gear to send those mods to an alt, there is still only ONE set of mods to send. Sure, one character earned them and can send them to another, but there is still only ONE set of mods. If that character sends those mods to another character, he no longer has those mods, as there is only ONE set of mods.

 

 

Legacy datacrons would create INFINITE sets of datacron stat bonuses, one for each and every character you have, present and future. That would be equivalent to purchasing ONE piece of gear and then being able to send a a class appropriate set of mods to each and every character you have, present and future, while also retaining those mods on the sending character.

 

There is a huge difference between ONE set of mods and INFINITE sets of mods, wouldn't you say?

[LegoUniverseBC]

I just spent all day yesterday getting every Datacron on my main, and every datacron on my alt (who is an imperial).

I hope they don't create Legacy Datacron unlock as it was very fun and enjoyable. It was also very rewarding. I'm hoping that when housing comes out they make a cool furniture piece for getting all of them!

[Grayseven]

Dude, it has nothing to do with lazy and everything to do with no one wanting to do boring crap more than once.

 

And again, you are giving the stat bonuses way more weight than they actually have. The fact that you can do top tier end game PvP and PvE without the bonuses should tell you something.

 

While I simply do not care either way, the vehemence with which you compare a game and work makes it seem like you have no idea what real work truly is.

 

Games are for enjoyment. You don't get a special gold star for getting all the datacrons on every toon, you don't get more than a pittance of advantage for it and it isn't even close to being fun enough to want to do again and again.

 

Things like this are why the Legacy system was created. Making someone do something on one character the first time makes perfect sense, but making them crawl through the same boring hoops again and again doesn't. After all, we aren't forced to do the same quests over and over again on each character unless we want to. We have other options to gain xp and a lot of people take advantage of them.

 

Making datacrons legacy wide is not lazy, just as giving double xp weekends and bonus xp consumables isn't lazy. It is an acceptance that constantly jumping through the same hoops is boring and no company wants to lose people because they make their game boring.

[Arkerus]

If you GIVE that mod to an alt, does the giver still have it? NO. It's totally different with datacrons. You want to give the stat bonuses to your alts, while at the same time keeping those bonuses for the giver.

 

Even if you find the datacrons ONCE on ONE character, you are still asking for a handout for your alts so that they can have the boosts without finding the datacrons.

 

There was a suggestion earlier that involved a holoviewer that could be "charged" and was BOL so it could be sent to alts. This would make legacy datacrons equivalent to sending mods through BOL gear as the sender would no longer have that holoviewer.

 

I'm sorry that you are too lazy to find them on every character, but handing out stat bonuses for free would detract from the game, IMO.

 

I honestly feel bad for you. You are clinging to a dying ideal that "work" should never be removed. Should I not be able to start a meeting at work from my phone? Should I have to take bags of cash to my bank because direct deposit removes work? This is a game. Let me kindly remind you. This is a game. I feel bad for you because you would be the same type of person who expects people to slog through the same junk again and again, just because you don't want your "work" (lol, work in a video game) trivialized.

 

Content is one thing. Jumping on pipes more than a handful of times is useless. You still have not added how this is VALUE and you won't, because you can't.

[DarthTHC]

If you send that level 55 mod from your main to an alt, does your main still have it? NO.

 

 

If you buy ONE piece of level 55 gear and use BOL gear to send those mods to an alt, there is still only ONE set of mods to send. Sure, one character earned them and can send them to another, but there is still only ONE set of mods. If that character sends those mods to another character, he no longer has those mods, as there is only ONE set of mods.

 

 

Legacy datacrons would create INFINITE sets of datacron stat bonuses, one for each and every character you have, present and future. That would be equivalent to purchasing ONE piece of gear and then being able to send a a class appropriate set of mods to each and every character you have, present and future, while also retaining those mods on the sending character.

 

There is a huge difference between ONE set of mods and INFINITE sets of mods, wouldn't you say?

 

I can create an infinite number of +41 crystals by clicking a button.

[TravelersWay]

It's not bad. I just think going back adding more jump points, click points is a heck of a lot more work than just adding it to your legacy.

 

Click. + 2 to strength. Done. I already proved I got it on another character. I proved I can jump around on pipes. I guess it depends on how you SEE datacrons. What do they represent?

 

Ah, but the key is that we are not adding more click or jump points, only adding a skill with a targeting system like the AOE abilities of Troopers and Bounty Hunters. You simply click the skill icon, move the mouse pointer (with target circle) to the spot where you want to go, the game determines (as it does now) if that area is accessible, you click again and the animation kicks off, sending your character to that spot.

 

Certainly it is more work for players who simply want to get the codex and stats by clicking a legacy button, but again, there's no reason that we can't make compromises here. In the end, the 'crons are a reward for traveling off the beaten path and exploring - like most of the clickable lore objects are in the game right now. It's just that these lore objects also contain a minor stats boost. As such, I don't think it's that much to ask that players still go out and find those objects on each character they want to have that stuff unlocked on (since it has to be done with normal lore objects and map exploration now anyway), especially since there is a stats buff attached to it. At least by having the Legacy abilities, it simplifies the process and makes it quicker and easier in some circumstances.

 

When this topic was first being discussed, I though a Legacy unlock for the 'crons was a great idea, until the discussions started up and some of the realistic limitations that would need to be imposed to make it fair was brought up. Then I realized it was not such a good idea because the root of the issue is the platforming required to get some of these 'crons. I am still not opposed to Legacy unlocks, but would much rather have a system in place that takes the platforming out of the equation, and makes the 'crons truly a reward for exploration (like the rest of the lore objects), and not a reward for having latency free hardware. I have played the game on six different systems, two of which were desktops, and only one of those six systems is suitable enough for me to get 'crons like the two Coruscant ones relatively pain-free (but not completely pain free). I have never been able to get those 'crons on any of the other five systems I use. Having a Legacy ability removes that issue and still maintains some effort/reward ratio for collecting the 'crons as well as making them less time consuming. That is an acceptable compromise, I would think.

 

Just so im not confused... are we talking about paying for stats now? this this the new level of SWTOR? we dont feel like looking for the datacrons so we are going to Pay to win?.........yeah if this gets implimented i will quit...

 

This provides the advantage to all that have a bigger wallet...

 

No it wouldn't since this wouldn't prevent being able to get the 'crons in game for free. This is not a pay to win scenario, since P2W by definition is buying something with real money that is only available for real money and not otherwise obtainable through normal gameplay in the game. The 'crons still would be, as mentioned, so the money debate is only in terms of convenience.

Edited March 25, 2014 by TravelersWay

[DarthTHC]

Ah, but the key is that we are not adding more click or jump points, only adding a skill with a targeting system like the AOE abilities of Troopers and Bounty Hunters. You simply click the skill icon, move the mouse pointer (with target circle) to the spot where you want to go, the game determines (as it does now) if that area is accessible, you click again and the animation kicks off, sending your character to that spot.

 

Certainly it is more work for players who simply want to get the codex and stats by clicking a legacy button, but again, there's no reason that we can't make compromises here. In the end, the 'crons are a reward for traveling off the beaten path and exploring - like most of the clickable lore objects are in the game right now. It's just that these lore objects also contain a minor stats boost. As such, I don't think it's that much to ask that players still go out and find those objects on each character they want to have that stuff unlocked on (since it has to be done with normal lore objects and map exploration now anyway), especially since there is a stats buff attached to it. At least by having the Legacy abilities, it simplifies the process and makes it quicker and easier in some circumstances.

 

How many times is that a benefit to any player? Once? And if it were purely exploration, they wouldn't require such precise jumping.

 

I think we've all done that math that shows they are a statistically and tactically insignificant stat boost. The desire for these seems more completionist than character advancement.

 

The most compelling argument I can offer for giving players an easier way to get Datacrons after they've done it once is that I have, and I know plenty of others that have, a very hard time jumping precisely in this game for a variety of reasons.

 

Guild datacron runs are a wonderful thing because Sages and Sorcerors can pull people who find it too challenging to the 'crons to help them. But not everyone has the fortune of being a member in a guild that does these sorts of things.

 

I guess it doesn't have to be "click the legacy button", but there should be a way to help people who have trouble jumping precisely get these rewards that were supposed to be for exploration, as you said, rather than expertise at Super Mario.

[TUXs]

I honestly feel bad for you. You are clinging to a dying ideal that "work" should never be removed. Should I not be able to start a meeting at work from my phone? Should I have to take bags of cash to my bank because direct deposit removes work? This is a game. Let me kindly remind you. This is a game. I feel bad for you because you would be the same type of person who expects people to slog through the same junk again and again, just because you don't want your "work" (lol, work in a video game) trivialized.

 

Content is one thing. Jumping on pipes more than a handful of times is useless. You still have not added how this is VALUE and you won't, because you can't.

 

Very nicely said Arkerus!!!

[mike_is_valid]

Having ALL datacrons actually give you only 40 mainstat, 40 endurance and 40 presence, which is near to nothing. I don't get it why some are so worried about those.

 

A full augmented set add 448 mainstat, thats 11 times the gain you get from having all datacrons. And the matrix shards are not much in terms of relics either.