Why did Jeff Hickman lie to subscribers about the future of the game?

[tman_ac]

Well yeh, that's the point. EA doesn't care. They want the profit NOW, not later. What they are doing with this in the long term is beyond of their understanding. For them it's like: 2.1, success! (cause there were enough guys who bought Dye packs and made changes in the kiosk)

 

The true damage they will see once the first subscriptions are running out within the next days/weeks/months. And it's not a minor number I believe. If they are happy to lose, let's say (just an assumption) 50-100k subs to make the fast penny on some new features in a single game update then they have to deal with the damage.

 

I won't leave the game, but I won't stay subbed either. Not a big difference anymore between f2p and sub.

[ufarax]

Rather than deal with this crap, from a company I once trusted. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0081Q58AW/ref=s9_psimh_gw_p63_d3_i1?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-2&pf_rd_r=0Y1BZ8EQZETNWE24GBKQ&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=1389517282&pf_rd_i=507846 I still trust and love Bethesda and Zenimax. Electronic Arts and Bioware can go and $%*$ themselves.

[Witnezz]

I will just be as honest as I can here

it was a poor choice in wording on our part

I apologize if you feel that you were misled

 

[Sziroten]

Hey folks,

 

I will just be as honest as I can here, it was a poor choice in wording on our part. I know that players have made decisions around whether to remain a subscriber based on those words which makes it all that much more sensitive. I apologize if you feel that you were misled by what we said in that blog. Since this blog I feel we have been more consistent in our messaging that you can expect things like cosmetic and convenience features (like Appearance Designer) are the types of things we usually place on the Cartel Market.

 

It has always been our plan that as new content is released,(such as Flashpoints, Operations, in-game events, daily hubs, etc.) that subscribers will get access to these pieces of content. This is unlike a free-2-play player who will need to purchase access to that content. This is why we stated subscribers gained "unlimited" access to that content, because you get that as a part of your subscription.

 

For Cartel Market items, you have access to purchase all of them, as do F2P players. What sets you folks apart is your monthly stipend which will allow you to purchase those features at no additional cost should you choose. I realize with your stipend, and with all the features we have, you may not be able to get it all at once but you can get it in time as a subscriber.

 

With that being said we have definitely heard your frustrations around Game Updates and the value you feel as a subscriber. I don't have details today but we are continuing to look at options moving forward to make sure that you don't feel that way.

 

-eric

 

No offence to you and even props to jump off the safe wagon but.... how many times do we have to hear this "poor choice of word" excuse?

 

You made life really really hard for anyone trying to play F2P and you had a golden opportunity with the customization kiosk to get more people to subscribe by making it based on credits for subscriber. The game is GROWING but it seems like in real life... 500% profit but we have to part from 20% of our employees..... .

[Xeperi]

First, you can continue as a subscriber, which gives you unlimited access to ALL game features and future Game Updates at no additional charge.

 

This can be interpreted to mean that everything that swtor ever puts out, is covered by the subscription. How is that a reasonable expectation? Of course he could not have meant it like that. So how much access to exactly what game features and content? I think that is what people are arguing.

 

I started playing about 2 months ago. My sub covers a fast quick travel cool down, unlimited field-revives, accelerated xp, and unlimited access to flash points (ect) the stipend is just gravy to me. I think some of the long-time subscribers are still just salty about f2p and any single thing that swtor puts out that these subs do not have free-access to will cause a fire storm.

[Kilora]

I think some of the long-time subscribers are still just salty about f2p and any single thing that swtor puts out that these subs do not have free-access to will cause a fire storm.

 

This is spot on.

[DarthTHC]

Well yeh, that's the point. EA doesn't care. They want the profit NOW, not later. What they are doing with this in the long term is beyond of their understanding. For them it's like: 2.1, success! (cause there were enough guys who bought Dye packs and made changes in the kiosk)

 

The true damage they will see once the first subscriptions are running out within the next days/weeks/months. And it's not a minor number I believe. If they are happy to lose, let's say (just an assumption) 50-100k subs to make the fast penny on some new features in a single game update then they have to deal with the damage.

 

I won't leave the game, but I won't stay subbed either. Not a big difference anymore between f2p and sub.

 

If they wanted to maximize profit NOW, they would have charged $16/$26 for RotHC and given everyone access to Cathar rather than making it a choice that subscribers who were wise with their coins could get for $0 over the sub they've already paid... or not take it at all.

 

The driving force behind the decision of what to make a CM purchase seems to be whether or not it's vanity / appearance gear or feature. And that's it.

 

This game offers more granular choices about how players can pay (or not!), and at lower price points, than many I've played.

 

I know it's fashionable to bash EA for being greedy bastages. But if you look at how they're actually doing things, they're far, far less money-grabbing and far more consumer-choice in this game than other MMO providers are, and less onerous than even other EA titles.

Edited May 21, 2013 by DarthTHC

[TUXs]

If they wanted to maximize profit NOW, they would have charged $16/$26 for RotHC and given everyone access to Cathar rather than making it a choice that subscribers who were wise with their coins could get for $0 over the sub they've already paid... or not take it at all.

 

The driving force behind the decision of what to make a CM purchase seems to be whether or not it's vanity / appearance gear or feature. And that's it.

 

This game offers more granular choices about how players can pay (or not!), and at lower price points, than many I've played.

 

I know it's fashionable to bash EA for being greedy bastages. But if you look at how they're actually doing things, they're far, far less money-grabbing and far more consumer-choice in this game than other MMO providers are, and less onerous than even other EA titles.

 

Actually, I largely agree with this. However, the BASIC cosmetic changes are where they messed up imo. Had I been able to change my "basics" for free (or in game creds), this update would have been heralded as a massive success. They got greedy by taking a game updating FEATURE and charging RL $ for it.

[Darka]

Its good we got a response, and moving forward i feel they will be more cautious in choosing specifically what they say, but people will read what they want to see from it.

[tman_ac]

I started playing about 2 months ago. My sub covers a fast quick travel cool down, unlimited field-revives, accelerated xp, and unlimited access to flash points (ect) the stipend is just gravy to me. I think some of the long-time subscribers are still just salty about f2p and any single thing that swtor puts out that these subs do not have free-access to will cause a fire storm.

 

Still, last content we got for free is about 7 months ago (section x). For what am I paying my sub? To use features who are in game for a very long time and support the Cartel Market team who designs new stuff we have to pay ON TOP of our subscription?

 

Most of the f2p restrictions are a joke. You can get unlocks for nearly every **** on the GTN if you just invest a little bit time to grind some dailies.

 

Most of the long time subscribers have leveled up already all classes, so I really don't care about quick travel, accelerated xp and unlimited field revives. Unlimited access to FPs is a joke as well, I have done every single FP in game like a hundred times. If they give me a new FP every 4 weeks a sub would be worth it, but for now why should you even consider buying FP unlocks as a f2p?

 

Overall, after f2p was introduced we did not get anything for free. Everything was accessible for f2p and subs. On top we have to pay for appearance changes and a new race. I am still curious for what I did pay my monthly sub the past 7 months? To cover the server costs and the salary of the CM design team?

 

I feel ripped off as a subscriber...

[Kilora]

Still, last content we got for free is about 7 months ago (section x). For what am I paying my sub? To use features who are in game for a very long time and support the Cartel Market team who designs new stuff we have to pay ON TOP of our subscription?.

 

So, you didn't get 2.0 for free?

You didn't get Ancient Hypergate for free?

You didn't get the Gree Event for free?

 

Wait 3 weeks for our next ACTUAL content patch. This was a Cartel Market patch -- something we KNEW was coming when they introduced F2P, and something that isn't taking the place of a content patch in the schedule.

 

2.2 is the next scheduled content patch after 2.0 (using the 6-8 week schedule). If that is horrible and CM-only (even though they said it is not cm-focused) you should absolutely start complaining. And I'll be there with you, holding a torch and pitchfork calling for BWs head.

[Maldach]

Its good we got a response, and moving forward i feel they will be more cautious in choosing specifically what they say, but people will read what they want to see from it.

 

They will say less and be more ambiguous, this is how they operate. Nothing learned here.

[TUXs]

So, you didn't get 2.0 for free?

You didn't get Ancient Hypergate for free?

You didn't get the Gree Event for free?

Curious...what did 2.0 improve for the player who didn't buy the DLC?

[DarthTHC]

Actually, I largely agree with this. However, the BASIC cosmetic changes are where they messed up imo. Had I been able to change my "basics" for free (or in game creds), this update would have been heralded as a massive success. They got greedy by taking a game updating FEATURE and charging RL $ for it.

 

But they're not charging RL money for it. They're charging cartel coins for it. When you're a subscriber, as you are, that means you get some number of those "basics" changes right with your subscription. If you want to do one per hour, yep, you're going to eventually have to spend some cash. If you can manage your urges to change your hairstyle, you may never drop a dime beyond your subscription fee.

 

Beyond that, if you look at the potential cost of all available changes combined, SWTOR is far less expensive than the most popular MMO out there and probably less expensive than all the rest.

 

It's only when you focus on the micro-transaction of, what, 2 or 3 changes, that it even begins to look worse. But, again, you have to remember that you get some of those included in your subscription, too.

 

No game will ever have an identical pricing model to any other game again, I think. You need to look at the options on balance, or at least the features you want to use on balance, to get an honest handle on competitive pricing.

[BernieMargo]

Not a big difference anymore between f2p and sub.

As a f2p player who just broke down and bought a sub this week I have to contradict you here. I had no idea how vast the difference was before subbing. I have 3 times as many quickbars now. My quick travel CD is now 30 minutes instead of 2 hours. I have a reusable fleet pass every 12 hours. Unlimited space missions. Augments. Purple gear. A bank vault. I can actually craft things now (and have spent three days playing catch-up with that).

 

The reason I didn't sub earlier was that I was already outlevelling areas way too quickly despite the gimped f2p XP. I finally subbed because I was planning to buy the expansion at max level and I got tired of running out of inventory space every five minutes and it was frustrating to have epic upgrades without being able to wear them. I suggest you try f2p for a week to see whether or not the sub is really worth it to you.

[Benfynyn]

Try this one.

 

You sign up with a TV provider. Doesn't matter which one - satellite, cable, whatever. And you take their middle of the road package - 200 channels instead of 150 or 250 - because that's the lowest one that has the handful of channels you are interested in watching.

 

Then a few months down the road, the provider switches around the packages and channels such that one or more of the ones you care about aren't in your package any more. Some are simply no longer available with that provider, some are moved into the more expensive package.

 

Never happens though, right?

 

 

Pretty much that. Except in this example I think it would be more accurate to say that the channel was moved out of all packages and had to be ordered indvidually or pay per view for specific programming.

[DarthTHC]

Pretty much that. Except in this example I think it would be more accurate to say that the channel was moved out of all packages and had to be ordered indvidually or pay per view for specific programming.

 

When they did it to me, it was +5 channels for a good chunk of change. Which is close enough to +1. I told them to bugger off.

[Kilora]

Curious...what did 2.0 improve for the player who didn't buy the DLC?

 

Class balances. Technically you could say it didn't "improve" the skill tree -- because adding a new middle row actually took some skills away from non-capped players.

 

Bug fixes.

Achievements.

Guild XP Bonus (listed in Patchnotes, but I thought it was before 2.0)

 

While it isn't content -- they did make a significant amount of tweaks and changes to classes, fix many issues, and add a few QoL tweaks in.

 

Definitely not a full content update -- but it was also paired beside a cheap expac. Point was more -- we haven't actually had only CM content released. Class tweaks and bug fixes take quite a bit of work from people more skilled than graphic artists.

[tman_ac]

So, you didn't get 2.0 for free?

You didn't get Ancient Hypergate for free?

You didn't get the Gree Event for free?

 

Wait 3 weeks for our next ACTUAL content patch. This was a Cartel Market patch -- something we KNEW was coming when they introduced F2P, and something that isn't taking the place of a content patch in the schedule.

 

2.2 is the next scheduled content patch after 2.0 (using the 6-8 week schedule). If that is horrible and CM-only (even though they said it is not cm-focused) you should absolutely start complaining. And I'll be there with you, holding a torch and pitchfork calling for BWs head.

 

So, 3 more weeks makes it still 7 months where subs didn't receive ANYTHING for free. And you obviously don't understand what I was pointing out:

 

- Hypergate is free to subs AND f2p

- Gree event is free to subs AND f2p

- 2.0 was charged for both, subs AND f2p (we got 50% discount, still we had to pay for it)

 

So what? If 2.2 adds one FP f2p has to buy, do you seriously think that's worth a sub? And remember what I just said, it took them like 7 months for that. (if t is like that, maybe f2p will get it for free as well, who knows)

 

That said, you should see what I am talking about.

[Kilora]

So, 3 more weeks makes it still 7 months where subs didn't receive ANYTHING for free. And you obviously don't understand what I was pointing out:

 

- Hypergate is free to subs AND f2p

- Gree event is free to subs AND f2p

- 2.0 was charged for both, subs AND f2p (we got 50% discount, still we had to pay for it)

 

So what? If 2.2 adds one FP f2p has to buy, do you seriously think that's worth a sub? And remember what I just said, it took them like 7 months for that. (if t is like that, maybe f2p will get it for free as well, who knows)

 

That said, you should see what I am talking about.

 

So, you're upset that F2P are getting LIMITED access to things you can access with NO limits? You may want to find another game, then. Because this is the future of the game. We've known this since F2P launched.

 

Subs get unlimited access to gameplay content, F2P have gimped access to gameplay content. Everyone pays for vanity/cosmetic content.

 

That won't change.

 

Also -- wrong. 2.0 Was free. Rise of the Hutt Cartel was not. Two separate things.

And it has NOT been 7 months since Ancient Hypergate or Gree. Sorry.

Edited May 21, 2013 by Kilora

[tman_ac]

As a f2p player who just broke down and bought a sub this week I have to contradict you here. I had no idea how vast the difference was before subbing. I have 3 times as many quickbars now. My quick travel CD is now 30 minutes instead of 2 hours. I have a reusable fleet pass every 12 hours. Unlimited space missions. Augments. Purple gear. A bank vault. I can actually craft things now (and have spent three days playing catch-up with that).

 

The reason I didn't sub earlier was that I was already outlevelling areas way too quickly despite the gimped f2p XP. I finally subbed because I was planning to buy the expansion at max level and I got tired of running out of inventory space every five minutes and it was frustrating to have epic upgrades without being able to wear them. I suggest you try f2p for a week to see whether or not the sub is really worth it to you.

 

Well, for someone who is new to the game it is actually worth it. I am here since the start, have seen every FP a hundred times, have played all class stories and do not need to level up another toon. I am sitting at the end game where I don't need gimmicks like quick travel or fleet pass or whatever anymore.

 

A kinda new player maybe doesn't get what I am talking about, cause he still wants to level up loads of Alts and play FPs and whatever is out there.

[TUXs]

But they're not charging RL money for it.

 

Cartel Coins cost RL $, and because of this, changes that require them do too. Skip the 500 per month argument, while some may fall for that faulty logic, I'm not stupid enough to.

[Tekeda]

Class balances. Technically you could say it didn't "improve" the skill tree -- because adding a new middle row actually took some skills away from non-capped players.

 

Bug fixes.

Achievements.

Guild XP Bonus (listed in Patchnotes, but I thought it was before 2.0)

 

While it isn't content -- they did make a significant amount of tweaks and changes to classes, fix many issues, and add a few QoL tweaks in.

 

Definitely not a full content update -- but it was also paired beside a cheap expac. Point was more -- we haven't actually had only CM content released. Class tweaks and bug fixes take quite a bit of work from people more skilled than graphic artists.

Lol when listed out you can see that we got nothing. And before this it was 6 months of nothing. Class tweaks lol my PT thanks you for those.

 

What you need to understand is that this was the best they could do ROTHC is their best foot forward much of it's development was done when they had an army of devs working on this game. This what the game is it will not improve the content will not get better. If you can't see that you are blind.

 

If you like the game for what it is thats great but please enough of the stringing people along.

Edited May 21, 2013 by Tekeda

[tman_ac]

So, you're upset that F2P are getting LIMITED access to things you can access with NO limits? You may want to find another game, then. Because this is the future of the game. We've known this since F2P launched.

 

Subs get unlimited access to gameplay content, F2P have gimped access to gameplay content. Everyone pays for vanity/cosmetic content.

 

That won't change.

 

Also -- wrong. 2.0 Was free. Rise of the Hutt Cartel was not. Two separate things.

And it has NOT been 7 months since Ancient Hypergate or Gree. Sorry.

 

You still don't get me. Where is the value of a sub over a f2p account? Especially when you are here since the start and have all classes on max level, have played all FPs and all OPs?

 

Personally I didn't like the Gree Event, but that's subjective. Same goes for Ancient Hypergates. If you are satisfied with these 2 things in the past 7 months, then it's legit. I am not. And that's legit as well.

 

I am a loyal customer since the start, loved the game (was a Fanboy until 2.1 hit), payed 400 EUR on top of my subscription for CM stuff to support the game and then I don't get appearance changes for free nor can get the dye of my desire for ingame credits? (I would be okay with a fee on CM if you could directly buy them, but another gambling pack?!)

 

I am just disappointed.

[dcgregorya]

Hey folks,

 

I will just be as honest as I can here, it was a poor choice in wording on our part. I know that players have made decisions around whether to remain a subscriber based on those words which makes it all that much more sensitive. I apologize if you feel that you were misled by what we said in that blog. Since this blog I feel we have been more consistent in our messaging that you can expect things like cosmetic and convenience features (like Appearance Designer) are the types of things we usually place on the Cartel Market.

 

...

 

With that being said we have definitely heard your frustrations around Game Updates and the value you feel as a subscriber. I don't have details today but we are continuing to look at options moving forward to make sure that you don't feel that way.

 

-eric

 

Man, I'm glad I don't have your job lol. EA/BW kick some lions in the chin, then throw you into the pack and lock the door.

 

I guess we'll see what happens with the next release, though I think EA/BW and the players would both benefit from some more transparency and *speed*/expenditure on content related items. It's hard to argue with a game that's rapidly producing content and bug fixes - games that are throwing out (working) content are just difficult to complain about. If EA took that approach I think we'd all be less frustrated.