PvP Community's Plans for Server Transfers

[TheronFett]

Don't blame the players/guilds. Blame the game.

 

Not buying it.

 

There are a lot of guilds here who PvP regularly who are not "top tier" players, they do it for the sake of playing together...because that's what most guilds do. Then there are players who guild hop for the sole sake of being among the perceived "best", which has led us to the situation that exists now. Again, the broham campfire singalong stuff only goes so far, as long as ticks in the W column keep adding up. The game mechanics have nothing to do with it.

 

Here's a question: after some of you leave for greener pastures and "better competition" on another server...how many of you will rage quit and/or return to TEH? When will the infighting begin and how long will the broham last when the losses start piling up against better competition and the men among you are separated from the boys when they leave for other guilds on the new PvP server? I'm guessing at least some of you will be back.

 

Because you see, that's the true nature of things. Players who share the win-at-all-costs mindset will always follow the path of least resistance.

Edited May 20, 2013 by TheronFett

[Satedbuffalo]

So, hmm. I read some very heavy ressentiment into the last several posts. Maybe it's not intended, but it's definitely there. And I think it's misplaced.

 

Don't get me wrong, I've never had much love for many of the PvP guilds. I think, by and large, they do an extremely poor job of public communication and a lot of them luxuriate in the kind of angry jealousy that's so common on the forums. In my book, that's in poor taste. I like the PvPers who speak and act with respect for the community and hope for a better atmosphere on the Ebon Hawk, but those people are acting above and beyond the call of duty. They're acting like responsible pseudo-politicians in a game most people are playing to relax, unwind, and express a little too much id.

 

That said, I do think it is unfair to either a) demand/expect that any guild undertaking the highest levels of any content be responsible for generating its own competition, b) demand/expect that any guild undertaking the highest levels of any content invest significant amounts of time developing individual competence, or c) demand/expect that high-quality PvPers not befriend one another. By-and-large, the design of ranked PvP in general is unbelievably poorly thought out and given a relatively small population will lead toward a congealed layer of talent at the top of the pool. The apparently significant skill divide between the top-tier players who've mastered (or have even limited competence with) coordinated group tactics and the mediocre to excellent solo players is reinforced by Bioware's system. There's no way around that and it's pointless to blame any particular group.

 

I'm an inveterate solo queuer. I'm fascinated by the depth of tactics that are available to groups -- just listening to an experienced ranked team communicate is a very interesting experience -- but I don't have the drive to be an excellent PvPer and most PvP guilds scare the **** out of me. I've had losing streaks against the same 2-3 premades stacking into the upper 40s. It gets stupid and it often feels pointless. I feel your pain, solo queuers and novice players, I feel your pain. But that doesn't mean that it's appropriate to accuse the PvP guilds of "comm-farming".

 

No one enjoys a one sided fight, perhaps especially not the PvP guilds. Losing endlessly to the same people sucks only slightly more than watching the same group of PUGs stack on a node for seven minutes while you twiddle your fingers. That's not why these folks queue.

 

Part of being a leader is leading - willing to teach, and further more, WANTING to teach. You are absolutely right, you owe this server nothing, but what does it say about a PVP guild that doesn't RP very much hanging out on an RP server? Maybe it says nothing at all, then again, maybe it does.

 

The best PvPers on the server are definitely a closed group. It's a fairly small network and it's a thick one. There are people (and even guilds) in that group who've taken it upon themselves to build up the talent of novice players. I'd point to <Azure Blades> and <Silent Council> in particular, on that front. Those two groups have--and I'd say this was true long before server transfers--consistently been open to new and learning players. Are the best of the best in those guilds? No. The top tier talent bleeds out of those guilds. But if you're searching for mentoring, there are absolutely guilds that are, at least tangentially, committed to that goal.

 

To be perfectly frank, however, what separates the PvP guilds from the masses is not raw, individual skill. There are excellent, sometimes unbelievably skilled players in no-name guilds or who run unguilded on principle. The kind of coordination the PvP guilds can muster, however -- predicated on communication and leadership -- means that they're playing a meta-game that the majority of players on the server likely don't realize exists.

 

So if the top PVP guilds aren't interested in applicants who want to PVP, then how do you find recruits? Or don't you? Aren't people applying to guilds supposed to apply to guilds that best suit them? If someone truly loves PVP and wants to be the very best they can't, shouldn't they apply with one of these top PVP guilds? You say "recruiting for the sake of education is not something your guilds do", but then why do you recruit, and when, and what is it exactly you look for? Do you not look at all? If you do recruit, are you only interested in the very elite of players, who require no education what-so-ever, because you yourself stated in your reply, "No one ever taught me or an of my guildmates how to play this game", implying that you had no clue what you were doing when you first stepped into a warzone.

 

I think, and maybe there are a select few exceptions to this like in Mort's case, PvP guilds offer very, very little in terms of remedial education about the basics of WZs or classes or whatever. And most people joining the best of the best are already in the in-group of top-tier PvPers: they've made an impression by consistently performing well in WZs. PvP guilds/groups can take that raw talent/ability/skill and add coordinated group effort/skill/strategy on top. That's what they offer, and it's not really something that can simply be taught.

 

Resenting them for being able to do that is silly.

 

That said, the current status of Ebon Hawk PvP is attributable to the attitudes and actions of the incestuous pool of PvPers at the top. That statement doesn't come with a condemnation. At the end of the day, there are very few serious rivalries, competition is scarce if not entirely extinct, ranked matches are rare (although there have been some good ones lately). I don't think anyone -- even the most partisan defender of the PvP guilds -- can seriously argue that the nature of the relationships between the best PvPers on the server doesn't impede the growth of the PvP community. Maybe someone wants to give it a shot, but regardless: PvP here sucks for almost everyone.

 

Ultimately, I do think that both groups -- the best PvPers and the people who might get better if not for such overwhelmingly dominant/****-talking/demeaning competition -- will be better off on different servers. And that sucks, because I really, really like a lot of the hardcore PvPers and I will be sad to see them leave. Really, though, I think the differences between the two groups, exacerbated by the months and months of jealousy and pettiness directed towards the hardcore PvPers, aggravated by reactionary trolling and very poor communication skills (and some very nice collage work), has made reconciliation more or less a pipe dream. Not everyone involved is or ever will be committed to the same vision of Ebon Hawk PvP, and many of those departing will be much happier fighting a larger array of more talented opponents.

 

Maybe Paid Transfers will be a bit of a reset for TEH. I just hope that those who stay will be the sorts of people who go beyond the call to make Ebon Hawk PvP awesome.

 

tldr; - this one time Iota called me a retard for capping a node so I held a grudge for like a year and a half. somehow you came off as even more petty than me, though, so I wrote a *********** treatise.

[FeralPug]

[...sour grapes...]

 

You're one negative hombre.

[Battyone]

For Mr. Frodo and the shire! Edited May 20, 2013 by Battyone

[RogueScout]

Perhaps my post came off as resentment, but I assure you it isn't. My questions were inquistive in nature. As for demanding, I would never demand anything from anyone, however I can have expectations, they just don't need to come true. We all have expectations of BioWare, but let's revisit where that got us.

 

I agree that the PVP system is horribly dysfunctional, but I would have hoped those who are able to rise above the flaws and anarchy to extend the olive branches to others who wish to join them. To hope for something like this shouldn't be viewed as a demand. And even if these guilds never open their recruitment doors again, I still respect what they do, however on a server that is RP based, I'm just surprised that they actually enjoy what little competition is out there for them on this server. This leads me to wonder if they enjoy the easy victories? Are they hesitant of what types of competition exist on a true PVP based server? Would they rather continue their nearly flawless victories against the community of a RP server for the sake of getting comms?

 

I know it is unlikely that I'll ever be as good as the players in these guilds, but I know that if I were to ever rise to that level, I would want the glory of real competition, not picking apart RP pub groups for easy comms and glorlyless victories.

[Hellhorn]

I have to agree that it's the game mechanics and not the players. How can you fault people for wanting to play with like minded friends who pvp? It's an MMO, people are gonna group together. Some MMO's, that we will leave nameless, have better matchmaking mechanics that try to put premades against premades. It's not perfect, and it doesn't happen all the time, but their systems are set up so that if you are grouped with a friend they try to find a match where there is another group of two, etc... Now, with SWTOR and their refusal to have cross server pvp (like all east coast servers play against one another) that won't work as it will take too long to find a match.

 

I get irritated when I play on the Imp side and run into GG and then play on the Pub side and run into another Premade and for some reason they are not finding each other in the que. So instead of having a good fight against another premade (which I'm sure they'd prefer) they just roll against PUG's.

 

Either way, it's the system.

[FeralPug]

 

I know it is unlikely that I'll ever be as good as the players in these guilds, but I know that if I were to ever rise to that level, I would want the glory of real competition, not picking apart RP pub groups for easy comms and glorlyless victories.

 

Uhhh, isn't this exactly why many PVPers are wanting to transfer?

 

Like I said before, I had no intention of PVPing in SWTOR. PVP in most MMO's has sucked since the dawn of the genre compared to FPS's and RTS's. I suspect that many PVPers who find themselves on TEH are in exactly the same boat as I am: the PVP grabbed us, and by the time we realized it we were in too deep to want to re-roll. PVE for me murders my soul. My game time is also very limited. Re-rolling is simply not gonna happen. I struggling to even level my secondary character to 55. It's godawful.

 

In terms of getting to be better at PVP: it ain't rocket surgery. Look up class guides. Look up videos. Work your rotations out on a test dummy and parse the logs.

 

Also, if you click your skills ... don't. Keybind. There is no excuse not to.

 

If your numbers are exceptional, the guilds will seek you out.

[Battyone]

Uhhh, isn't this exactly why many PVPers are wanting to transfer?

 

Like I said before, I had no intention of PVPing in SWTOR. PVP in most MMO's has sucked since the dawn of the genre compared to FPS's and RTS's. I suspect that many PVPers who find themselves on TEH are in exactly the same boat as I am: the PVP grabbed us, and by the time we realized it we were in too deep to want to re-roll. PVE for me murders my soul. My game time is also very limited. Re-rolling is simply not gonna happen. I struggling to even level my secondary character to 55. It's godawful.

 

In terms of getting to be better at PVP: it ain't rocket surgery. Look up class guides. Look up videos. Work your rotations out on a test dummy and parse the logs.

 

Also, if you click your skills ... don't. Keybind. There is no excuse not to.

 

If your numbers are exceptional, the guilds will seek you out.

 

I have to ask this, and will be sad if it's the case. You leaving us? T_T

[TheronFett]

I get irritated when I play on the Imp side and run into GG and then play on the Pub side and run into another Premade and for some reason they are not finding each other in the que. So instead of having a good fight against another premade (which I'm sure they'd prefer) they just roll against PUG's.

 

Either way, it's the system.

 

I think you're right to a certain extent. However, the end result would still be the same. The conglomerate would still exist, because as I said before, players with this mindset will always follow the path of least resistance. Yeah, cross server would be nice. Would've been nice at launch, or even 6 months ago. Now, there's no point. Let the server transfers sort it out.

 

And Jerc, there's no sour grapes about it. The truth hurts. You can choose to accept it or not, but it's the truth regardless.

[FeralPug]

I have to ask this, and will be sad if it's the case. You leaving us? T_T

 

That's nice of you to say, Amistar. Thanks.

 

Honestly, I'm really torn. I adore TEH. I really do. The folks I've met are singularly fun to play with. I have been fortunate to have some really extraordinary players and people to group with on a daily basis. The people in my guild frankly rock. I love these effing people. Our wider circle of PVPers are a cool group. The JFFC was smokin last week with some top-level dueling by really talented players. And everyone was so polite, and encouraging. It's outrageous, really. I don't think many servers have this.

 

The rivalries have also been awesome, not to mention the great memories of the early days of TEH: The Code, Brethren, Wardens on the Pub side. Veritas, Forsaken, Dirt Dogs, Covenant Shadows, Jenari Ascendency. Folks like Tom, Wolfpaw, Acorn, Boxxy, Chouffe. All gone. Awesome times on Ilum back before they took it away.

 

I also agree with Ma'Groh: the talent on TEH is among the best in the game. We saw this when the PTS went mega-server. TEH members absolutely dominated a JFFC I held there wrecking highly rated and regarded players from all over the world. Go look at the class PVP records in the PVP forum. TEH is very well represented there. While we have some really top-quality players, the pool is small in comparison to PVP servers. That's the heart of the problem for the hardcore PVPers.

 

Being on a server that shares a common focus is very appealing. Getting ranked pops in the morning on the weekend would be incredibly sweet.

 

It will come down to how the transfers are implemented and who else wants to strike out on a different server. There are certain players I want to come with me, so a lot will be dependent on that. It is very likely that Hex and friends will be transferring. What I'd love to see is a pure transplantation of the TEH community onto a PVP server.

 

As for the "truth" Theron Fett is claiming to have, I don't know what he's talking about. Why would we want to move if we didn't want more competition? Isn't that the whole point of this thread?

Edited May 20, 2013 by FeralPug

[RGMetal]

Getting ranked pops in the morning on the weekend would be incredibly sweet.

 

^This. So much this. I leave for work at around 9pm on the weekdays.

 

I'm not willing to put up with the attitudes on a PvP server, nor leave friends I have made here on TEH, just for ranked.

[DarthBror]

Seriously... Not gonna lie, This **** is on my nerves now.. So im gonna lay my cards out.

 

I have personally tried on SEVERAL occasions to raise PVP awareness, have duel nights, run recruit gear only tournaments, push for a PVP Mentor program etc.. etc.. Events the Elite PVP people scoffed at and scorned me for.. NONE of you put an OUNCE of effort to even meet me half way..

 

Im the most community minded person on these forums, and if you think It its chest puffing... .go **** yourself... I don't do it for recognition or an "Im cool happy face" sticker to put on my wall.. I do it solely because I love people and interaction with other human beings.

 

So I hear the BS and QQ.. But Truth be told, I don't have a sliver of pitty for you.. This is my FIRST PC game.. I started playing this game with a standard HP keyboard and mouse clicking everything.. I also started on SOTE.. Getting facerolled by Squad Six night after night. I saw player after player get frustrated and rage quit.. Go on to play other games with other Pax people. But I stayed, Reading, watching, asking..

 

Let me tell you something about these PVP "******es" that everyone loves to QQ about.. They were the first people to respond and provide info when I dropped that Mentor Program thread.. There was A METRIC **** TON of highly valuable info there. I was even able to garnish a significant amount more through direct PM. Multiple individuals took time out of their own game time to answer my "nub ***" questions. I however tried to take my *** rapage as learning experiences. Slowly I started to improve and build relationships with the individuals and the community as a whole. I sincerely applied the knowledge these "Elite" players shared with me. Bought the "MMO mouse" and freaking learned how to use it, binding all my keys. Then match after match began understanding tactics and team dynamic.

 

SO IM SORRY if I don't see **** them same way you all do then..

 

Furthermore... Can you all not SEE WHATS HAPPENING HERE?!?!?!?!?!!

All this fighting and bickering,, the name calling and insults.. Its only perpetuating the state of affairs. The more this goes on, the more it only hardens resolve. ATM I would be beating my head through a plate glass window to even suggest a server event. However.. I gave my word to myself and the community that I would try and facilitate a better more cohesive PVP environment with every avenue at my disposal. Regardless of my guild tag, and I don't intend to fail. Wherever I land come transfers.

Edited May 20, 2013 by DarthBror

[Prisoner]

Ultimately, I do think that both groups -- the best PvPers and the people who might get better if not for such overwhelmingly dominant/****-talking/demeaning competition -- will be better off on different servers. And that sucks, because I really, really like a lot of the hardcore PvPers and I will be sad to see them leave. Really, though, I think the differences between the two groups, exacerbated by the months and months of jealousy and pettiness directed towards the hardcore PvPers, aggravated by reactionary trolling and very poor communication skills (and some very nice collage work), has made reconciliation more or less a pipe dream. Not everyone involved is or ever will be committed to the same vision of Ebon Hawk PvP, and many of those departing will be much happier fighting a larger array of more talented opponents.

 

Maybe Paid Transfers will be a bit of a reset for TEH. I just hope that those who stay will be the sorts of people who go beyond the call to make Ebon Hawk PvP awesome.

 

I just wanted to say that as a B-team player who sort of stands on the fringes of the PVP community, solo pugs a lot, and has observed the Elite PVP Guild vs everyone else divide for about a year now, I think that your entire post is 100% absolutely spot on. I'm disappointed that people have pretty much skipped over what you said, the same way Nadir's and Dashto's excellent earlier posts were ignored in favor of bickering. Then again, I think that at this point in the game resentments and attitudes are pretty much set in stone which is a real shame and pretty much proves your point.

 

Anyway, to those leaving, best of luck. Do the Ebon Hawk proud. And to those staying, I'll see you in the warzones.

Edited May 20, 2013 by Prisoner

[TheronFett]

I just wanted to say that as a B-team player who sort of stands on the fringes of the PVP community, solo pugs a lot, and has observed the Elite PVP Guild vs everyone else divide for about a year now, I think that your entire post is 100% absolutely spot on.

 

Agreed.

 

I'm one of those fringe players as well. I excel on a good team, make an otherwise bad one actually competitive, and PUG most of my matches. However, I also think that the PvP community as a whole on TEH will be better and grow once the current crop of elites are gone. Hopefully those who rise to take their place have more sense about the overall health, community, and longevity of PvP on TEH.

[VtTethias]

Here's a question: after some of you leave for greener pastures and "better competition" on another server...how many of you will rage quit and/or return to TEH? When will the infighting begin and how long will the broham last when the losses start piling up against better competition and the men among you are separated from the boys when they leave for other guilds on the new PvP server? I'm guessing at least some of you will be back.

 

Let me be frank - the situation on Pot5 (where I have a fully geared 55 marauder alt) and Bastion is hilarious. I would pit TEH's best PvPers against any of theirs any day of the week., and I exclude my guild in that measure by the way - What Pot5 has that Ebon Hawk lacks is 24 hour queues and more than 1 ranked team.

 

I've seen abject nubery on the "PvP" servers that puts Ebon Hawks' worst nubs to shame. I don't think anyone who has experienced this "high level play" would say otherwise.

 

Also, I've heard the sky is falling claim for months and the predictions of doom from many people for months now. It hasn't happened yet. Maybe we genuinely like each other? And contrary to popular belief, I know there are very good PvPers in guilds other than my own. I respect them quite a bit and consider myself on friendly terms with many of them.

Edited May 20, 2013 by VtTethias

[NadirPalo]

...made reconciliation more or less a pipe dream. Not everyone involved is or ever will be committed to the same vision of Ebon Hawk PvP....

 

hit the nail on the head right there

 

here's a sad jawa:

 

btw would anyone be down for a "farewell 1v1" tourney before transfers (whenever we find out if/when its happening)?

Edited May 20, 2013 by NadirPalo

[Kormad]

Well, in response to the OP, I personally plan on moving several of my toons if PvP server transfers are in fact available. It's been something I've been wanting to do for a long time. Similar to Jerc, I didn't get into this game for the PvP; I was part of a PvE/RP guild originally, but the PvP drew me in and I got really into it several months ago. I believe playing against the best competition the game has to offer, on our server and others, is the way I'm going to get better. Leaving the friends here on EH would be difficult...but I don't really think I belong in a PvE/RP community, especially after a lot of the current PvP guilds go on their way. :/

 

I'd personally go to POT5, as overpopulated as it would be.

[ML_DoubleTap]

Eh, I can't speak for others, Nadir, but I treat people in game like it's the first time I've seen them. Life is too short to carry resentment. I only bother posting here because I'd like to see things improve.

[alexsamma]

Let me be frank - the situation on Pot5 (where I have a fully geared 55 marauder alt) and Bastion is hilarious. I would pit TEH's best PvPers against any of theirs any day of the week., and I exclude my guild in that measure by the way - What Pot5 has that Ebon Hawk lacks is 24 hour queues and more than 1 ranked team.

 

I've seen abject nubery on the "PvP" servers that puts Ebon Hawks' worst nubs to shame. I don't think anyone who has experienced this "high level play" would say otherwise.

 

Also, I've heard the sky is falling claim for months and the predictions of doom from many people for months now. It hasn't happened yet. Maybe we genuinely like each other? And contrary to popular belief, I know there are very good PvPers in guilds other than my own. I respect them quite a bit and consider myself on friendly terms with many of them.

 

Merope Speaks the truth, my win/loss ratio is higher on pot5 than on EH, and I solo queue over there 99% of the time.

 

I think a lot of people utilized my response to Spurlock for their own purpose, especially the bit about the guild mergers; the original "mergers" happened due to the failure that was 1.2 and the resulting exodus of players over the patches that followed - my comments referred to a later date when Guerilla and Game Genie were capable of fielding their own ranked team, but instead opted to work together.

 

The level of negativity, whining, and total unwillingness to accept the fact that every player is responsible for establishing their base-line pvp skills is disgusting; while the attitude and actions of the "Elite PVP Guilds" may be questionable/distasteful, there is no doubt that the attitudes of many of the (self-labeled) "have-nots" is disgusting.

 

To the people who are generally frustrated and are sincerely seeking guidance on how to become a more competitive pvper, I would suggest that you:L

visit your class forums

practice your "rotations" (IE, figure out which abilities compliment each other)

speak to other players who play your class/spec that you respect

inspect those same player's gear and ask questions about itemization

engage in 1 vs 1's

observe other players and try to figure out why they are doing what they are doing.

develop situation awareness (this can be done in both pve and pvp)

listen to Jerc, he's not really a Jerc and for 99% of the gaming population he has repeatedly given you the best advice possible

GROUP UP WITH OTHER PLAYERS (teamwork is king)

 

Despite our differences, I've enjoyed the opportunity to play against the members of GG/Empire/Guerilla, and I'm truly thankful that I've the opportunity to share a guild tag with all of the members of <Zen> and <Hex>; playing with and against all of you have made me a better pvper, and kept me playing swtor much longer than I ever anticipated.

 

Finally, I want to give a shout-out to individuals in this thread whose responses have been reasonable and rational, such as Dashto, Nadir, Merope, Tor-barr. Jerc, Peyton, and Sammoj (sure I missed a few).

Edited May 20, 2013 by alexsamma

[Clogski]

Let me be frank - the situation on Pot5 (where I have a fully geared 55 marauder alt) and Bastion is hilarious. I would pit TEH's best PvPers against any of theirs any day of the week., and I exclude my guild in that measure by the way - What Pot5 has that Ebon Hawk lacks is 24 hour queues and more than 1 ranked team.

 

I've seen abject nubery on the "PvP" servers that puts Ebon Hawks' worst nubs to shame. I don't think anyone who has experienced this "high level play" would say otherwise.

 

Also, I've heard the sky is falling claim for months and the predictions of doom from many people for months now. It hasn't happened yet. Maybe we genuinely like each other? And contrary to popular belief, I know there are very good PvPers in guilds other than my own. I respect them quite a bit and consider myself on friendly terms with many of them.

 

Pretty much this. 55s on Pot5 is pretty amusing. In the end it comes down to which side overcommits and leaves mid unguarded. But my ultimate favorite is playing the game of "Who isn't watching the Voidstar door". I can also agree that I would pick EH players from any guild over Pot5 pugs any day.

 

Nubery is my favourite word now Manlio. ^^ I will now make an extreme effort to use that word at least once per day.

[VtTethias]

I would add you need to know how other people play their classes as well - not just your own. If you blow all your big hitting abilities when someone has their defensive cooldowns up, what's the point? This is where having alts helps. Or at least, lots of practice against said classes.

[TheronFett]

Okay, now I'm confused.

 

If the goal with this thread is to generate interest in moving the PvP community to a more competitive PvP environment, then why the push for POT5 if POT5 has worse players than TEH?

 

....or did I just answer my own question?

Edited May 20, 2013 by TheronFett

[alexsamma]

Okay, now I'm confused.

 

If the goal with this thread is to generate interest in moving the PvP community to a more competitive PvP environment, then why the push for POT5 if POT5 has worse players than TEH?

 

....or did I just answer my own question?

 

There is a larger variety, more pops, more ranked, and while the general population may be worse, the chance for more competitive pvp (aka ranked) is much higher.

 

I believe that there is currently a total of ten teams queuing for ranked pvp on pot5, that is ten more than we have here.

 

edit: also, open world pvp is fun

Edited May 20, 2013 by alexsamma

[Prisoner]

Okay, now I'm confused.

 

If the goal with this thread is to generate interest in moving the PvP community to a more competitive PvP environment, then why the push for POT5 if POT5 has worse players than TEH?

 

....or did I just answer my own question?

 

Because they want to play ranked pvp. They've been pretty clear on that from the start. Makes sense to go where there are a bunch of teams and ranked games pop on a regular basis. Can't really fault them for that.

[FeralPug]

Okay, now I'm confused.

 

If the goal with this thread is to generate interest in moving the PvP community to a more competitive PvP environment, then why the push for POT5 if POT5 has worse players than TEH?

 

....or did I just answer my own question?

 

I know that your ultimate wish is that all PVPers are miserable tryhards who love to roll PUGs. It just ain't so, bro. It just ain't so.

 

Good troll though!

Edited May 20, 2013 by FeralPug