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So I cancelled my subscription today


NycoFox

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OP is right, there are signs they don't give a "F" anymore, especially when you see that Cathars got 7 haicurts (vs. more than 30 for humans), with some being slight variations from others. Impossible to look like the Cathar NPC's we loved.

 

It's clear to me they (almost) gave up with this game, I see no signs that they believe in it anymore, but of course they still need money from it (this I can understand, no problem ;)).

 

+1

Edited by smellymetal
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Every MMO i have ever played has had cosmetic items or changes available for sale in some kind of market:

 

Star Trek Online.(Borg Collective)

Warhammer Online.

Aion.

FFXI.

Guild Wars 2.

Star Wars Galaxies(IIRC)

Guild Wars.

 

And so on... this is not a new practice among MMOs, I guarantee you Elder Scrolls Online and World of Darkness will both eventually have something similar.

 

Yes, but something I've come to realize is how many of these games limit your playability if you're not paying a monthly sub? I can play GW2 for free and have access to all the races all the levels and all the features, so who cares if I have to pay $10 for some gems to be able to change my hairstyle as well as get some different armors or unlock another character slot (EVERYONE starts out with four anyway so ANYONE who wants more would have to buy gems for it).

 

If I go F2P on this game I can only play two of my characters? I can't play any alien races? I can only use two skill bars? I can only have so many of my credits on hand and have to pay to get more out of "escrow"? I can only do so many war zones and flash points per day/week/month? Oh and lets not forget that my having BOUGHT RotHC is pretty well USELESS since I can't play past level 50 if I'm F2P! So hey, there's $10 WASTED right there. And yes my husband and I both cancelled our subs because of the realization that our subs were basically just paying for the quality of play that ANY other F2P mmo gives you AND they're charging CC for things like appearance changes ON TOP of it.

 

It's ridiculous, if our subs are basically doing nothing more than letting us not be restricted ten ways come sunday, then things like the appearance changes should not cost us CC as well. And yes I am aware that I have previously stated that F2P is the new business model for MMO's but I've had time to digest and really think about exactly what's happening here since I've said that.

 

If they want to go the route of charging through the cartel market for things like appearance changes, then they need to DROP the subscription model ENTIRELY and make the Cartel Market their SOLITARY source of income, like any other TRULY F2P game out there. Quit gimping us in our game play just because we don't pay for a subscription. Either make us buy CC for anything cosmetic we want in the game and TAKE AWAY the GAMBLE, or give subscribers the ability to pay in game credits for things like appearance changes. You can't have it both ways either be a sub based game, or truly go F2P with a market system as the way you make your revenue!

Edited by Leighandra
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What amazes me more is that most of these quitting threads, which are pointless per se, is that they are always based on a tantrum caused by the prejudgement that something in someone's mind should or should not be the way it turned out to be.

I'm sorry guys, everyone has the right to his/her own opinion but coming to a forum and write a post just to throw wood into the proverbial fire just doesn't work anymore. Feedback is important when made wisely; "enraged" feedback is pointless.

The monthly amount of CC is more than enough to make some basic cosmetic changes (hair cut, eye color and such). Are you so unsure of your choices that you'll need to be performing cosmetic changes every day? Before screaming about having to spend coins, learn to manage them. A regular person will only spend money on cosmetic changes from time to time. You have the time in between to gather coins or spend them somewhere else.

If paying for character re-customization is what makes you leave a game, I have to tell you that you don't like the game enough and you should have left before.

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Brilliant attempt, but before F2P we paid to play the game, come F2P we were given the bonus of a monthly stipend of free cartel coins that you don't require to spend any extra cash on, you are getting more for paying the same amount, it's called a bonus.

 

And with f2p they took a lot of stuff out of gameplay and put it into the cartel market. We are in effect getting LESS content as a sub now. The coins we get allows us only to buy BACK a few things. IF we want all (like it was BEFORE f2p), we need to pay extra (someone does).

Edited by Neglience
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What amazes me more is that most of these quitting threads, which are pointless per se, is that they are always based on a tantrum caused by the prejudgement that something in someone's mind should or should not be the way it turned out to be.

 

Actually I wrote my original post yesterday, and waited until today to actually post it, after moderating it a bit. I also tried to state that I'm not really yelling out in frustration, but I do want the devs to hear my opinion, and by using the forums to this purpuse, other people might join in on the debate.

 

I do disagree that these posts are pointless though, I write in the public forums not only to make the devs see the activity, but also to gather impressions from other players such as yourself. Who knows, maybe I'm missing something important in my reasoning, what better way to get a better picture of the situation than to hear from others?

 

That being said, I'm not quitting the game yet. I still have 88 days as a subscriber that I intend to utilize. After that I'll probably continue for a while as a preferred player, and who knows, maybe I'll resubscribe at that point? I really do like the game, I just don't like the signs I'm seeing.

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People whine about $15/month but they are quick to shell out $10, 20, 50, 100s in small doses because in general people are stupid.

 

"Hey, I really like this game, so I'll just buy 50$ in currency and then I'll be set for a long time! I'll be WAY better off in six months from now, since a subscription would've cost me a lot more money by then!"

And then they go through that currency faster than expected, or fall for the "gambling trap" so many F2P MMO's have and... voila, they buy more points.

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OP is right, there are signs they don't give a "F" anymore, especially when you see that Cathars got 7 haicurts (vs. more than 30 for humans), with some being slight variations from others. Impossible to look like the Cathar NPC's we loved.

 

It's clear to me they (almost) gave up with this game, I see no signs that they believe in it anymore, but of course they still need money from it (this I can understand, no problem ;)).

 

+1

 

I'm a sub, and I will keep it like that because I still enjoy this game a lot. Nevertheless, I also suspect that this game is slowly, bit by bit, dying.... and I'm not happy about that suspicion... and there is nothing I (as a sub) can do about it.... and I will be more than happy to be wrong about this!

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Is the OP still trying to attempt civil discussion here or has he/she left what has become yet another emotional-filled response of 2.1?

 

My two-cents: what you want to do with your money and you want spend/throw at things, by all means go for it. Though I really do not need other people to dictate or coerce me into cancelling as a threat to force your own demands onto a gaming company.. Do not like the changes? Voice the opinions in a civil manner, most of us should be or should act mature for their age. I am not referring to the OP, but to those whom cannot have some form of civility.

 

Not saying to be a emotionless hack, but my goodness, most of the threads today had been so rage inducing because of features which had been consistently asked for, yet when it finally arrives, it is not up to whatever your view of standard is in and instantly resorting to using your subscriptions as some form of leverage to gain attention as if you have nothing else to show for. If this was an actual forum in real life, surely most users cannot act like this in public, it's an embarrassment.

 

Yes, as humans whom filled with emotions can cloud common sense and logic, but learn to control them. Even applying SW as reference, emotions leads to the darkside easier.

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Hm. Whilst i do see some merit to what is being said in regard to subscribers not being treated like the entitled Highborn Royalty we feel we ought to be, these things are purely cosmetic so i'm a little reluctant to get annoyed about it - i know, i know, it's the principal that is the core of the problem here.

 

I like that i get 500 cc a month, but i like more being able to look down my nose at F2Pers, little things like that make me happy and, yes, i'm an elitist snob - but at least i have the good decency to be honest about it.

 

You can make that 500cc a month go a long way if you avoid the lucky dip that is packs.

 

I hear what you're saying though and I have to agree, there is an undercurrent of ugly corporate greed below the Star Wars-y surface and it does ruin the overall feel of the game to a small extent. It often behooves me that the games industry is the way it is today, but unfortunately the golden age of online gaming is behind us now. Was it always inevitable that big faceless corporations would get involved? Maybe. But i'm more inclined to believe that I, and many, many of my fellow gamers are as much to blame as anything else, for when in-game novelties first appeared for real money in MMOs, we should have been curbed our enthusiasm and as one boycotted the very notion, and maybe, just maybe things might have been different. But then again, were it the case that the only successful model was Subscriptions, then The Old Republic would have folded last year, and just think of all the complaining we'd all have missed out on. Double edged sword.

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Is the OP still trying to attempt civil discussion here or has he/she left what has become yet another emotional-filled response of 2.1?

 

My two-cents: what you want to do with your money and you want spend/throw at things, by all means go for it. Though I really do not need other people to dictate or coerce me into cancelling as a threat to force your own demands onto a gaming company.. Do not like the changes? Voice the opinions in a civil manner, most of us should be or should act mature for their age. I am not referring to the OP, but to those whom cannot have some form of civility.

 

Not saying to be a emotionless hack, but my goodness, most of the threads today had been so rage inducing because of features which had been consistently asked for, yet when it finally arrives, it is not up to whatever your view of standard is in and instantly resorting to using your subscriptions as some form of leverage to gain attention as if you have nothing else to show for. If this was an actual forum in real life, surely most users cannot act like this in public, it's an embarrassment.

 

Yes, as humans whom filled with emotions can cloud common sense and logic, but learn to control them. Even applying SW as reference, emotions leads to the darkside easier.

 

I don't think the OP is necessarily using his subscription to "get his way". I think it's more frustration on the business model Bioware is adopting that is causing the cancellation of the sub.

 

I certainly know it is in my case. Like I said before, they need to choose. Either be completely F2P, no subscription rates at all, game play without all the restrictions and get their money from the sale of Cartel coins and make all this stuff available through the cartel market like it already is.... OR give the people paying a subscription access to things like vanity appearance changes for in game credits and more armor models to just be found in the world. By all means keep things like the fancy speeders, fancy and unique crystal colors, pets, or race changes in the cartel market for coins though. I'm just saying pick one model or the other, trying to do both is just plain greedy.

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I hear what you're saying though and I have to agree, there is an undercurrent of ugly corporate greed below the Star Wars-y surface and it does ruin the overall feel of the game to a small extent. It often behooves me that the games industry is the way it is today, but unfortunately the golden age of online gaming is behind us now. Was it always inevitable that big faceless corporations would get involved? Maybe. But i'm more inclined to believe that I, and many, many of my fellow gamers are as much to blame as anything else, for when in-game novelties first appeared for real money in MMOs, we should have been curbed our enthusiasm and as one boycotted the very notion, and maybe, just maybe things might have been different. But then again, were it the case that the only successful model was Subscriptions, then The Old Republic would have folded last year, and just think of all the complaining we'd all have missed out on. Double edged sword.

 

I suppose the MMO market is quite saturated, and it's getting harder and harder to make money from it. Especially when the cost of developing the game are as high as they are. To even have a chance to develop games of this scale you need the backing of the biggest corporations, and they want a return on their investment fast. That can lead to desperate maneuvers, and micro transactions are still considered (by the corporations) to be a fat enough cash cow.

 

I just don't think it will last very long... and when the money from those markets starts ebbing out the corporations are more likely to shut down their support and withdraw their licenses than keeping the game on life support. Better to fund a new project that will generate big cash for a short while, than to get little amounts of money from a longer term project.

Edited by NycoFox
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I cancelled about a week ago. Subscribers paying for haircuts, facial hair, tattoos, etc. is just beyond anything remotely reasonable. I know, i get 500 CC for my $15, that somehow justifies making subscribers pay for everything. You can spray perfume on crap, but it's still crap.

 

I actually agree.. Also they PROMISED 1 free name change for subscribers and guess what? That's not what was provided.

 

I am incredibly disappointed, and likely will cancel.

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Look, all that customization stuff is cosmetic. Purely cosmetic, nothing more.

 

This is not pay to win, it's pay to change a toon's appearance. It's not game breaking. It's perfectly suited for CC.

 

Don't want to pay? Don't change your appearance. Simple. Nothing is stopping you from enjoying the gameplay.

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I actually agree.. Also they PROMISED 1 free name change for subscribers and guess what? That's not what was provided.

 

I am incredibly disappointed, and likely will cancel.

 

They did apologize for that, and it is coming - its just delayed.

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Sorry to hear you cancelled OP, but I wouldn't expect change. The game has gotten better by leaps and bounds since F2P and as long as it stays as healthy as it is they will keep up with the current model. I really can't fathom why people get so bent out of shape about optional paid cosmetic only changes. You don't like it don't buy them. It's really that simple.
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Sorry to hear you cancelled OP, but I wouldn't expect change. The game has gotten better by leaps and bounds since F2P and as long as it stays as healthy as it is they will keep up with the current model. I really can't fathom why people get so bent out of shape about optional paid cosmetic only changes. You don't like it don't buy them. It's really that simple.

 

But I do like them, and I am already paying, why should I pay again? Since I am a subscriber (and will have that status for another 88 days), I would like to have something more in return for it. Like it is now I feel like I'm just sponsoring the F2P-crowd, and still have to pay for extra content, cosmetic or not. Since it is "just cosmetic", why can't I "just have it" as a subscriber with the money I'm paying? :)

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And with f2p they took a lot of stuff out of gameplay and put it into the cartel market. We are in effect getting LESS content as a sub now. The coins we get allows us only to buy BACK a few things. IF we want all (like it was BEFORE f2p), we need to pay extra (someone does).

Please name one feature, that was taken out of gameplay since F2P (or even since release).

 

[...] Since it is "just cosmetic", why can't I "just have it" as a subscriber with the money I'm paying? :)

As long as you are not spending more than 500-700 CC per month, this is exactly as it is.. you then can have it all, as you do get CC included in your sub.

Edited by JPryde
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First of all, let me say that I did not do this just because I was angry at the new 2.1 update, in a rage-quit kind of way. Sure, I wasn’t happy, but that’s not the real reason. I’m not posting here just to vent my frustration. What I see are signs of a very worrying trend in this game, and hopefully if enough of us start voicing our opinions, and voting with our money (or, withdrawal of them), the devs can be made more aware on the real situation.

Sorry, it is a 'Rage, I quit post!' and you are venting.

 

I have been a subscriber since day one, with the Collectors Edition. Every six months I have been happily paying my subscription fee (a bit under $100 converted from my local currency), and have enjoyed the game for quite a while. Everything was very nice in the beginning.

So have I, nice statue of Darth Malgus sat on my desk as a security key stand and art book on shelf. Six month sub is £46.14 for me. It wasn't very nice in the beginning it was bearable. No UI customisation, No group finder, No legacy system, No colour match and after the first couple of months No server population. I would advise you to take the rose tinted monitor screen off.

 

Then after a while SWTOR went F2P. That’s always a bad sign, it means that there are not enough paying customers to support the game. No matter what the devs say, the ONLY reason you’d go for a move like that is that you are not making enough money on your existing customer base. Every single reason they present besides this is just pretty excuses to make it sound less bad. If they believed in F2P they would have implemented it from the start.

It's not a bad sign it's an unfortunate effect of many other games already having a F2P system in effect and that's the market arena for MMOs these days. I would agree that the cartel market would have been a nice feature to have at launch, but so would many other things. Hopefully time will deliver them all... Improved guild support, more dynamic space content, consistent content delivery.

 

With the F2P option came the Cartel Market. Luckily, they avoided the worst P2W traps, and mostly had cosmetic items in the store. Whatever was in there was basically luxury items that was nice to have but not necessary to play the game. In addition to that it had purchasable packs that would make F2P players have an easier time in the game. Some people have claimed this has P2W-elements, but I see it more as B2P, as you basically support the game a bit to play it better.

There are no P2W options in SWTOR that I can find. There are a few XP boosts but levelling up a new character you get those anyway or can unlock something similar in Legacy Perks. If anything there was a slight hiccup with crafters being able to reverse engineer Best in SLot mods for items but that seems to have been resolved now. If you want BiS you have to earn/ grind it like you should have to in a proper MMO ;)

 

And now, with update 2.1, you have a new race, and the option to modify your appearance. Cool enough, except that you have to pay with money, REAL money, to actually use it. F2P players I can understand having to pay for this, but us subscribers? Come on, we already give you a sum every month.

As a 6 month recurring subscriber I get 600 cartel coins a month along with 100 for the security key that came in the collectors edition box. That's 700 cartel coins. Whether these can be considered free or not does not diminish the fact that they are there on your account every month. As a subscriber I don't have to pay for warzone access, operation access, XP boosts/ consumables (like med droids or fleet passes) or unlocking interface options. What have you been spending your CCs on?

This month's coins went on unlocking a Cathar (at 600 cc no different to any other species unlock, if you don't want to level one to 50 first or pay 1.5 million credits. To be honest that's a steal and very good of Bioware marketing, they could have chosen to price new species at double, three times this and people would have paid.) and the white eye unlock (100 cc). It's all vanity stuff and fluff.

Are you a little bitter because you've been milking the 700cc from your sub as a free credit generator and don't have any left?

 

In addition to that, what’s with the gamble system? Even if I thought it would be ok to use real money for something I’m already paying for, I would sure as hell not spend real money on a gamble to MAYBE get something I’m looking for. I’m looking at you dyes!

Some of the dyes are in gamble packs. Some of the dyes are craftable. Some of the dyes are from CE and security key vendors and some of the Dye schematics are from reputation vendors (need legendary status and artifice of 400 if I recall).

 

Dulfy has a great list of what and where >HERE<

 

I was a little disappointed with the 2 dye packs on the CE vendor although it's nice to see my fellow CE players are using the unbound quality as a quick cash in. I would have liked to have seen the reverse colour schemes also avbailable. The same with the Security key vendor.

The dye module I really like is the Section X rep one, red on black, thankfully I should hit legendary status with them this week.

The GTN is currently swamped with dye modules, I'm sure the prices will fall over the next month or two as more modules are released.

 

Now, even all this set aside, here’s what worrying me: they are clearly trying to milk this game as much as possible while it lasts. I would love to be proven wrong on this one, but I think the game is slowly dying. These moves point to an act of desperation. EA is also simply to uninterested in rescuing this sinking ship, maybe because they have other plans for a new SW-based MMO with their new license they got from Disney. So why should I invest more of my time and money into something that might not survive for long?

You say 'milk', I say 'make it profitable'. They are a corporation their goal is to increase the profit margins. They are not there to give you free stuff. Many of the big choices that have held SWTOR back were implemented by core Bioware staff not EA. The utter focus on story and restriction on player choice this entails have done more damage to the potential of this game than anything EA could have bolted on with the cartel market. F2P has brought in a population that makes many aspects of the game playable again. Case in point, started levelling my cathar assassin and the starting worlds were packed, didn't have to wait for a group to get the two heroics done and that was at 3am in the morning hardly a peak time.

I think the Makeb expansion shows a better insight into how to develop content for an MMO style story driven game and a part of me wishes the whole game was a little more like that.

 

So, please, BioWare and/or EA... I cancelled my subscription today, but it’s still active for 88 more days. If you listen to your customers and start treating us better, I would be more than happy to reactivate it before it runs out. But please PLEASE start listening to us, and especially those of us that have been loyal and paying you up until now. We have money, and we are willing to give it to you for a good gaming experience in return, but at least appreciate the money you already get from us. Taking it and then trying to grab more from us is just rude. Treat us better. Your game is actually quite good, and I would really love to see it continue for many years still.

Dear Bioware, I have not cancelled my subscription, nor do I intend to as long as you manage to continually improve the basic game and add new content every 2-6 months.

I worked out a while back that if I placed a value on the cartel coins I get with my subscription it works out at approximately 13 pence a day. To be on as long as I like, whenever I like (maintanence allowing ;) )

I challenge you to find any other entertainment provider that gives that much bang for the buck!

Edited by Vhaegrant
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Now, even all this set aside, here’s what worrying me: they are clearly trying to milk this game as much as possible while it lasts. I would love to be proven wrong on this one, but I think the game is slowly dying. These moves point to an act of desperation. EA is also simply to uninterested in rescuing this sinking ship, maybe because they have other plans for a new SW-based MMO with their new license they got from Disney. So why should I invest more of my time and money into something that might not survive for long?

 

 

 

Soo...let me get this right. You're cancelling your sub and leaving because you think people will cancel their subs and leave?

 

Logic is a wonderful thing! :cool:

 

 

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As long as you are not spending more than 500-700 CC per month, this is exactly as it is.. you then can have it all, as you do get CC included in your sub.

 

To have it all is a little bit exaggerated I think, I get 600 CC per month but I already spent it on other cosmetic things I liked. Which is the point, why should I be limited in my choices in a game I'm actively paying for? I just don't like being treated as a F2P player when I'm an active subscriber. I don't want to have limits on my choices, especially when the only option to avoid those limits are by paying more money.

 

I believe the basic problem here is to find a good balance between subscribers and F2P players. It is evidently very difficult, but we can only hope they listen to us so they can improve the game experience for the better.

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I also think BW is walking a very fine line with excluding subscribers from a new race option. This is no fancy hat or speeder it's a race ! sure you can look at it therefore it's cosmetic, but still the line is getting very thin here and I too was disappointed once more.
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I'm starting to see that the issue is not about the game itself but on a personal note of controlling oneself with spending money.

 

If the CCs were in place of real money, you may/not spend it due to it be a being limited resource. Mentioning the fact that you have already used up your monthly stripend, it is now a matter of waiting over having an instant gratification moment. I am guilty of myself at times with spending real money on things I really want or like whereas I can save and put it to good use for something I need not want.

 

It may be best to wait for your next stripend, even though you have cancelled, you still have 88 days left right? So you are still receiving those coins regardless. I think you can wait a month as it give time to think more clearly about the decisions you have made.

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First of all, let me say that I did not do this just because I was angry at the new 2.1 update, in a rage-quit kind of way. Sure, I wasn’t happy, but that’s not the real reason. I’m not posting here just to vent my frustration. What I see are signs of a very worrying trend in this game, and hopefully if enough of us start voicing our opinions, and voting with our money (or, withdrawal of them), the devs can be made more aware on the real situation.

 

I have been a subscriber since day one, with the Collectors Edition. Every six months I have been happily paying my subscription fee (a bit under $100 converted from my local currency), and have enjoyed the game for quite a while. Everything was very nice in the beginning.

 

Then after a while SWTOR went F2P. That’s always a bad sign, it means that there are not enough paying customers to support the game. No matter what the devs say, the ONLY reason you’d go for a move like that is that you are not making enough money on your existing customer base. Every single reason they present besides this is just pretty excuses to make it sound less bad. If they believed in F2P they would have implemented it from the start.

 

With the F2P option came the Cartel Market. Luckily, they avoided the worst P2W traps, and mostly had cosmetic items in the store. Whatever was in there was basically luxury items that was nice to have but not necessary to play the game. In addition to that it had purchasable packs that would make F2P players have an easier time in the game. Some people have claimed this has P2W-elements, but I see it more as B2P, as you basically support the game a bit to play it better.

 

And now, with update 2.1, you have a new race, and the option to modify your appearance. Cool enough, except that you have to pay with money, REAL money, to actually use it. F2P players I can understand having to pay for this, but us subscribers? Come on, we already give you a sum every month

 

In addition to that, what’s with the gamble system? Even if I thought it would be ok to use real money for something I’m already paying for, I would sure as hell not spend real money on a gamble to MAYBE get something I’m looking for. I’m looking at you dyes!

 

Now, even all this set aside, here’s what worrying me: they are clearly trying to milk this game as much as possible while it lasts. I would love to be proven wrong on this one, but I think the game is slowly dying. These moves point to an act of desperation. EA is also simply to uninterested in rescuing this sinking ship, maybe because they have other plans for a new SW-based MMO with their new license they got from Disney. So why should I invest more of my time and money into something that might not survive for long?

 

So, please, BioWare and/or EA... I cancelled my subscription today, but it’s still active for 88 more days. If you listen to your customers and start treating us better, I would be more than happy to reactivate it before it runs out. But please PLEASE start listening to us, and especially those of us that have been loyal and paying you up until now. We have money, and we are willing to give it to you for a good gaming experience in return, but at least appreciate the money you already get from us. Taking it and then trying to grab more from us is just rude. Treat us better. Your game is actually quite good, and I would really love to see it continue for many years still.

 

I completely agree. I also unsubbed yesterday. When the sheeple take their fanboy blinkers off and realise the game is in a bad way, then we may see change. If people unsub, then maybe at last EA and Bioware might listen and DO something towards fixing the game rather than adding fluff money making generators.

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I also think BW is walking a very fine line with excluding subscribers from a new race option. This is no fancy hat or speeder it's a race ! sure you can look at it therefore it's cosmetic, but still the line is getting very thin here and I too was disappointed once more.

 

The thing is subscribers aren't excluded. They have Cartel coins as part of their subscription.

 

When I wanted to make a Jedi Knight Trueblood Sith I hadn't levelled one to 50 on my Imperial side so I had to save 1.5 million credits to unlock it. At the time I would much have preferred to spend the 600 cc it costs out of my monthly allotment of cartel coins.

 

Cathar cost no more as an unlock than any other species. Personally I can't believe how generous this was of Bioware when you consider people were paying 1,440 cc (about £7) for a single set of armour that wasn't legacy bound.

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