Should there be a thing that lets you change to like a juggernaut to a murrader?

[LordArtemis]

I think there should be no such thing.

 

You can preview the advanced classes before rolling the character, you get to preview them before selecting them. That should let you make a reasonable judgment to pick the one you want.

 

Advanced class IS your class for 99% of the game.

 

They have completely different playstyle, different skills, different roles in combat (even when in the "shared" spec)

 

The point you make is reputable certainly. But personally I don't see how that makes the case that someone should not be able to change advanced class.

 

There are many design intents that were changed over time to make the game more palatable to casual players IMO.

 

Choices are no longer important in this game IMO.

 

Note...I'm not personally dead set on this. It's just a point of discussion really. I do understand the merits of remaining a certain class...but were not talking about changing your class here. Just your advanced choice.

 

I would need to hear reasons why that would be bad, other than a "shortage of tanks and healers" (keeping the choice permanent has not helped the shortage, and in fact I think it would help it if it was allowed) if my mind were to be changed....

 

...which, naturally, is about as important as giving a name to my navel lint. My opinion means next to nothing.

[Ratajack]

My son came up with a idea to make the game play better was if you were able to change your spec in the same class. So I am not a fan of my inquisitor so it would be great if I could switch to assassin instead. That way I wouldn't have to regrind all that stuff again. Wow does it that way and it works out great. this is on gammos fourm.

 

Wow does not do it that way. They do no allow you to change your priest to a rogue. They allow you to switch your priest from holy spec to disc spec or shadow spec, but it is still a priest.

 

Amazingly this feature is already available in this game. You can change your sorcerer from corruption spec to madness spec or lightning spec.

[Ratajack]

Technically, it's an advanced class change, which WoW cannot have because it doesn't have advanced classes, not because of any design decisions. Using WoW as an example for this discussion, as a pro or a con, doesn't work as there is no analogue for this system to be found there.

 

Your advance class IS your class. Check your guild roster, do you a class such as "bounty hunter-mercenary" or "bounty hunter-powertech"? No, the class is either mercenary, powertech, or possibly bounty hunter if the player has not chosen an AC yet.

[CelCawdro]

Your advance class IS your class. Check your guild roster, do you a class such as "bounty hunter-mercenary" or "bounty hunter-powertech"? No, the class is either mercenary, powertech, or possibly bounty hunter if the player has not chosen an AC yet.

 

Your class is bounty hunter. Your advanced class is mercenary, which shares a common story and common abilities and a common talent tree with the powertech - the other bounty hunter advanced class. To feign ignorance of that branching off process doesn't change that.

 

Yes, BioWare considers them to be more distinct than talent trees. And they are. But don't pretend that a Mercenary is as different from a Powertech as they are from a Juggernaut.

[Hizoka]

just let this thread die... the people who want the ability to change class are far too stupid to understand that there are 8 classes in this game not 4. Seeing how they are far too stupid to understand that fact they will never understand that they want a class change for nothing... let the topic die.

[Ratajack]

Your class is bounty hunter. Your advanced class is mercenary, which shares a common story and common abilities and a common talent tree with the powertech - the other bounty hunter advanced class. To feign ignorance of that branching off process doesn't change that.

 

Yes, BioWare considers them to be more distinct than talent trees. And they are. But don't pretend that a Mercenary is as different from a Powertech as they are from a Juggernaut.

 

A death knight and a warrior are different classes, although closer in function than a warrior and a priest, but still distinctly different classes. .

 

A mercenary can heal, a powertech cannot. A scoundrel can heal and stealth while a gunslinger cannot. A gunslinger is ranged DPS, while a scoundrel can either be ranged heals or a more melee oriented DPS. A sage can heal, while a shadow can tank. They are all different classes. Some may stem from the same basic class, but they are still distinctly different classes. To feign ignorance of the fact that once that branching occurs they are different classes does not change that

[Hizoka]

Your class is bounty hunter. Your advanced class is mercenary, which shares a common story and common abilities and a common talent tree with the powertech - the other bounty hunter advanced class. To feign ignorance of that branching off process doesn't change that.

 

Yes, BioWare considers them to be more distinct than talent trees. And they are. But don't pretend that a Mercenary is as different from a Powertech as they are from a Juggernaut.

 

actually if you knew anything about the classes you would know a powertech and jugg have more incommon then a powertech and merc... Juggs and powertechs are both able to tank and both able to melee DPS where as a merc is ranged DPS or a healer... now even someone like you should see which pair is more in common.

 

going by your "logic" a powertech should be able to become a jugg cause they are "similar"

[CelCawdro]

A death knight and a warrior are different classes, although closer in function than a warrior and a priest, but still distinctly different classes. .

 

A mercenary can heal, a powertech cannot. A scoundrel can heal and stealth while a gunslinger cannot. A gunslinger is ranged DPS, while a scoundrel can either be ranged heals or a more melee oriented DPS. A sage can heal, while a shadow can tank. They are all different classes. Some may stem from the same basic class, but they are still distinctly different classes. To feign ignorance of the fact that once that branching occurs they are different classes does not change that

 

Again, you're using the the WoW analogy that simply doesn't translate to WoW. Try Aion, or even Lineage II, as they have branching advanced classes. But if you insist on using it, I will, too. Do certain classes in WoW share talent trees? Do they share a tab on their ability trainers to train the exact same abilities? Monks, Druids and Paladins can tank and heal - does that mean that they should be split those classes as that is apparently unacceptable?

 

I'm not saying that they do not have distinct roles and playstyles. It would be asinine to suggest that. But they are the same class, just with a different advanced class. And that advanced class remains as the only relic of the past left in the game design. Why can we cancel conversations and redo them? Why can we decide on a different talent tree and pursue them? Why can we change our appearance? Why can we change our species? Permanence is a thing of the past, and if BioWare has distanced itself so far from permanent decisions on so many fronts, why should they stick to this one last thing? All I ask is that: Why? Answer that without a completely subjective statement and explain to me why it is advantageous to the game for advanced classes to be unchangeable, and I'll stop playing the devil's advocate.

 

Anyway ultimately, it comes down to what BioWare thinks. They no longer hold the staunch belief that "advanced classes are unique and will never be able to be changed." This is the most recent word:

 

18. Will be there any faction or Advanced Class change option available for purchase in the future?

We have had serious talks recently about offering an Advanced Class change option – I think that one will likely happen eventually. Species is likely as well. Doing a faction switch is considerably more difficult for us, though, due to the various quest flags set throughout the level up process, so this isn't on the horizon anytime soon.

 

So advanced class swapping was stated to be likely in the same breath as species change... which we have now.

 

Don't shoot the messenger.

Edited May 19, 2013 by CelCawdro

[Ratajack]

Again, you're using the the WoW analogy that simply doesn't translate to WoW. Try Aion, or even Lineage II, as they have branching advanced classes. But if you insist on using it, I will, too. Do certain classes in WoW share talent trees? Do they share a tab on their ability trainers to train the exact same abilities? Monks, Druids and Paladins can tank and heal - does that mean that they should be split those classes as that is apparently unacceptable?

 

I'm not saying that they do not have distinct roles and playstyles. It would be asinine to suggest that. But they are the same class, just with a different advanced class. And that advanced class remains as the only relic of the past left in the game design. Why can we cancel conversations and redo them? Why can we decide on a different talent tree and pursue them? Why can we change our appearance? Why can we change our species? Permanence is a thing of the past, and if BioWare has distanced itself so far from permanent decisions on so many fronts, why should they stick to this one last thing? All I ask is that: Why? Answer that without a completely subjective statement and explain to me why it is advantageous to the game for advanced classes to be unchangeable, and I'll stop playing the devil's advocate.

 

Anyway ultimately, it comes down to what BioWare thinks. They no longer hold the staunch belief that "advanced classes are unique and will never be able to be changed." This is the most recent word:

 

 

 

So advanced class swapping was stated to be likely in the same breath as species change... which we have now.

 

Don't shoot the messenger.

 

 

Look at your guild roster. Inspect other players on the fleet. How many bounty hunter-mercenary clases do you see? How many sith warrior-marauder do you see? You won't find any. You'll find powertechs, mercenaries, sith marauders (not the same as sith warrior-marauder), etc. The AC is the class, and the only real difference between the classes in this game and a DK and warrior in that other game is that you choose you class at creation in that other game, and in this game you pick your basic class at creation and your CLASS at level 10.

[darkbadeo]

your all asking for a respec wich you can do whenever and the post about AC swap from devs standpoint is old.

yes they might put it in

BUT jsut as race change its gonna cost you CM

not only that THERE will be a restriction on it so you cant abuse the system by making it a weekly thing

(or a single thing that when you change to a diff AC there is no going back)

 

im all up for a CM AC change but not for creds

[CelCawdro]

Look at your guild roster. Inspect other players on the fleet. How many bounty hunter-mercenary clases do you see? How many sith warrior-marauder do you see? You won't find any. You'll find powertechs, mercenaries, sith marauders (not the same as sith warrior-marauder), etc. The AC is the class, and the only real difference between the classes in this game and a DK and warrior in that other game is that you choose you class at creation in that other game, and in this game you pick your basic class at creation and your CLASS at level 10.

 

Answer the questions I posed. Likewise, you're inventing terms that the game doens't use.

Edited May 19, 2013 by CelCawdro

[Echriado]

actually if you knew anything about the classes you would know a powertech and jugg have more incommon then a powertech and merc... Juggs and powertechs are both able to tank and both able to melee DPS where as a merc is ranged DPS or a healer... now even someone like you should see which pair is more in common.

 

going by your "logic" a powertech should be able to become a jugg cause they are "similar"

 

Not. At. All. A marauder should be able to be a juggernaut because they are SITH WARRIORS with FORCE abilities and a LIGHTSABER. Good job sport.

 

-This argument is as old as time. You should be offered a yearly change or a one time use change before level 50. You are not allowed to because if somehow, your alternate AC becomes FOTM, too many people would jump ship.

[Hizoka]

Again, you're using the the WoW analogy that simply doesn't translate to WoW. Try Aion, or even Lineage II, as they have branching advanced classes. But if you insist on using it, I will, too. Do certain classes in WoW share talent trees? Do they share a tab on their ability trainers to train the exact same abilities? Monks, Druids and Paladins can tank and heal - does that mean that they should be split those classes as that is apparently unacceptable?

 

I'm not saying that they do not have distinct roles and playstyles. It would be asinine to suggest that. But they are the same class, just with a different advanced class. And that advanced class remains as the only relic of the past left in the game design. Why can we cancel conversations and redo them? Why can we decide on a different talent tree and pursue them? Why can we change our appearance? Why can we change our species? Permanence is a thing of the past, and if BioWare has distanced itself so far from permanent decisions on so many fronts, why should they stick to this one last thing? All I ask is that: Why? Answer that without a completely subjective statement and explain to me why it is advantageous to the game for advanced classes to be unchangeable, and I'll stop playing the devil's advocate.

 

Anyway ultimately, it comes down to what BioWare thinks. They no longer hold the staunch belief that "advanced classes are unique and will never be able to be changed." This is the most recent word:

 

 

 

So advanced class swapping was stated to be likely in the same breath as species change... which we have now.

 

Don't shoot the messenger.

you are pulling quotes from extremly old things... they have said MANY time they will NEVER allow AC swaps because your advanced class is your class.

 

That you want is a new max level character without earning it... my guess is you are c0ompletwely terrible at your current one so you just want to be handed another one. It takes very very little time to level a characte.r.. in the time you have spent crying in this threat about how you feel you are "special" enough to be handed a max level character you could of leveled one...

 

And you never commented on your epic fail saying that Mercs are closer to powertech then powertech are to juggs which is not true.

[Echriado]

you are pulling quotes from extremly old things... they have said MANY time they will NEVER allow AC swaps because your advanced class is your class.

 

That you want is a new max level character without earning it... my guess is you are c0ompletwely terrible at your current one so you just want to be handed another one. It takes very very little time to level a characte.r.. in the time you have spent crying in this threat about how you feel you are "special" enough to be handed a max level character you could of leveled one...

 

And you never commented on your epic fail saying that Mercs are closer to powertech then powertech are to juggs which is not true.

 

MercsARE CLOSERto powertechs because they are both BOUNTY HUNTERS. Their class MECHANICS are completely OPPOSITE. Try to be less dense there champ.

[gorstram]

I'll bet you've waited a long time to use that analogy, so I hate to have to do this ...

 

According to Dulfy's November 16 interview with Damion Schubert:

 

 

 

Frankly, I don't have a problem with this. Sure, you're going to see a lot of people who don't know how to play their characters at max level, but they're changing their class to please themselves, not the rest of the community. It's not going to tear endgame apart.

 

One thing that I'd hope is that the onus would be on the player to gear up their new character. BioWare shouldn't be expected to swap out every piece of equipment and mod to match the new Advanced Class. That would be a nightmare to code and balance, especially if one could change their Advanced Class at any level. This should be made clear and stated up front so players know what they're getting into and can prepare beforehand.

 

Of course it would mean that some players of Juggernauts and Guardians would be complaining to no end about how unfair it is that everyone else gets to wear their previous Advanced Class's armor. And then there will be people complaining that the companion they want to use isn't geared up. But it wouldn't be the official forums if there weren't.

 

This would be a bad idea on BW's part. Juggernaut/Guardians are able to run in instances with their sent/mara counterparts because there is no overlap in their armor and off-hands. I don't mind rolling against a sent/mara on a lightsaber, but I"ll be gosh darned if I'm sharing my armor and shield/focus with them as well. This is what AC swapping would promote.

 

The AC decision was meant to be a defining decision in the evolution of your character. A choice with finality to it. This way it would be fair to all players. If BW opened this up, I and a few thousand others who have been staunch supporters, sub payers, and coin buyers (above and beyond the stipend) would leave the game, and that would be tragic, because while this game has many faults, I still love it.

 

So the question is: do we shatter the fairness of the current gear situation so a few people can change their minds on an AC? If it got EA a few extra dollars, then it just might happen.

Edited May 19, 2013 by gorstram

[xXxSPYROxXx]

Well I leveled both marauder and juggernaut largely because having first reached 50 in DPS Mara once I got into the elder game content I saw a distinct lack of tanks. And bieng on a low pop server (APAC) I thought why not. Now with both characters, it's extreamilly rare for me to miss a HM or Opps team in my guild. I can freely switch over at any time.

 

The leveling process really didn't take all that long, I knew exactly where I had to go, what I had to do. (Mind you I do enjoy RP and story so it was rather fun to do, especially to explore both light and dark side options)

[WildbloodX]

I know but wow gets players for doing that and they should too.

 

And that killed wow for me. When they came out with dual spec., I hated the change because now all the work I put into my holy priest to become a great healer was wasted because now all the shadow priest were holy at will. Lame and the way EAware did the trees are great. Like someone said, you can tank/dps or heal/dps or have a tree that is all dps. Good deal leave it be, there is a class of gamers out there that want it all for nothing, and that kind of design just ruins games. You want a bad a** healer, then build it and it will come, you want the most powerful damage, build it. When you work for something you appreciate it more.

[Echriado]

And that killed wow for me. When they came out with dual spec., I hated the change because now all the work I put into my holy priest to become a great healer was wasted because now all the shadow priest were holy at will. Lame and the way EAware did the trees are great. Like someone said, you can tank/dps or heal/dps or have a tree that is all dps. Good deal leave it be, there is a class of gamers out there that want it all for nothing, and that kind of design just ruins games. You want a bad a** healer, then build it and it will come, you want the most powerful damage, build it. When you work for something you appreciate it more.

 

This is the most god awful thing I have ever heard. Field respec, in this game, gives my mercenary the ability to be a healer ( holy priest ) and go straight into dps mode ( shadow priest ). Why has this game not been 'killed' for you?

[Savej]

And that killed wow for me. When they came out with dual spec., I hated the change because now all the work I put into my holy priest to become a great healer was wasted because now all the shadow priest were holy at will. Lame and the way EAware did the trees are great. Like someone said, you can tank/dps or heal/dps or have a tree that is all dps. Good deal leave it be, there is a class of gamers out there that want it all for nothing, and that kind of design just ruins games. You want a bad a** healer, then build it and it will come, you want the most powerful damage, build it. When you work for something you appreciate it more.

 

This game already has "dual" spec. Any sage can become a healer or a dps or a hybrid at will. Any juggernaut can be a tank or dps or hybrid at will. You shouldn't be playing this game anymore than you should be playing Wow. Advanced class respect wouldn't change much at all, just let some players skip leveling redundant and very similar characters. Also, while I know for a fact that there are many extremist hardcore players (not saying that you are one, I don't know or care, but your reason seems to be "because the game should be harder and unforgiving, make players work"), I firmly believe that they should have 0 say in what the rest of us are experiencing when we play.

Edited May 19, 2013 by Savej

[WildbloodX]

This game already has "dual" spec. Any sage can become a healer or a dps or a hybrid at will. Any juggernaut can be a tank or dps or hybrid at will. You shouldn't be playing this game anymore than you should be playing Wow. Advanced class respect wouldn't change much at all, just let some players skip leveling redundant and very similar characters.

 

The current system does allow for healer/dps tank/dps, however, EAware specifically made the Sorc., vs Shadow different for a reason. If I have to explain the reason then maybe you should be the one moving on. I play this title because I love Starwars, but trust me, if it wasn’t for the theme (or lack of similar themes in MMOs out there), TOR would not be my first choice

Also, while I know for a fact that there are many extremist hardcore players (not saying that you are one, I don't know or care, but your reason seems to be "because the game should be harder and unforgiving, make players work"), I firmly believe that they should have 0 say in what the rest of us are experiencing when we play.

 

You have no place to say gamers that feel like I do should have no say. I feel you are ignorant, but does that mean I get to tell you that you have no say in the matter. Nope…

[Echriado]

The current system does allow for healer/dps tank/dps, however, EAware specifically made the Sorc., vs Shadow different for a reason. If I have to explain the reason then maybe you should be the one moving on. I play this title because I love Starwars, but trust me, if it wasn’t for the theme (or lack of similar themes in MMOs out there), TOR would not be my first choice

 

 

You have no place to say gamers that feel like I do should have no say. I feel you are ignorant, but does that mean I get to tell you that you have no say in the matter. Nope…

 

Oh, so you have a biased shield, next baddie please.

[WildbloodX]

Oh, so you have a biased shield, next baddie please.

 

Indeed I do sadly, as perplexing it is for me each time I log in, I just can’t seem to pull my sub yet. World of Starcraft would be nice, but who knows how long that will take to come to fruition. Eve Online was ok, but man after 120 hours to get an awesome battleship just to have it blown to shreds and lost forever over bad combat system w/ lack of skill on my end is just a little too hardcore for me. Come on gaming world give me a Futuristic Sci-fi MMO that I can play for years with good design and proper dev. implementation!

[Ratajack]

MercsARE CLOSERto powertechs because they are both BOUNTY HUNTERS. Their class MECHANICS are completely OPPOSITE. Try to be less dense there champ.

 

Mercs and powertechs begin as bounty hunters. They are NOT bounty hunters. Their class is mercenary or powertech, not bounty hunter-mercenary or bounty hunter-powertech. The only characters you will see with the class bounty hunter are those that have not yet chosen an AC.

[Ratajack]

Again, you're using the the WoW analogy that simply doesn't translate to WoW. Try Aion, or even Lineage II, as they have branching advanced classes. But if you insist on using it, I will, too. Do certain classes in WoW share talent trees? Do they share a tab on their ability trainers to train the exact same abilities? Monks, Druids and Paladins can tank and heal - does that mean that they should be split those classes as that is apparently unacceptable?

 

I'm not saying that they do not have distinct roles and playstyles. It would be asinine to suggest that. But they are the same class, just with a different advanced class. And that advanced class remains as the only relic of the past left in the game design. Why can we cancel conversations and redo them? Why can we decide on a different talent tree and pursue them? Why can we change our appearance? Why can we change our species? Permanence is a thing of the past, and if BioWare has distanced itself so far from permanent decisions on so many fronts, why should they stick to this one last thing? All I ask is that: Why? Answer that without a completely subjective statement and explain to me why it is advantageous to the game for advanced classes to be unchangeable, and I'll stop playing the devil's advocate.

 

Anyway ultimately, it comes down to what BioWare thinks. They no longer hold the staunch belief that "advanced classes are unique and will never be able to be changed." This is the most recent word:

 

 

 

So advanced class swapping was stated to be likely in the same breath as species change... which we have now.

 

Don't shoot the messenger.

 

 

You can cancel conversations and restart them up until you actually complete the conversation. You can also cancel AC selection and restart up until you hit that final "OK". You cannot go back and change your mind once the conversation is over and you cannot go back and change your mind about AC once you hit that final "OK".. Those seem to be the same to me.

 

You can change your appearance and race, but those are cosmetic changes only and not changes to a character's mechanics.

 

You can respec within a class because you are not changing class. A shared talent tree between two different classes and a shared tab of skills from a common trainer between two different classes does not make those two classes the same class. They are different classes.

 

Can a sage stealth? Can an assassin heal? Does a sage use a double bladed lightsaber? They are different classes stemming from a common basic class.

 

 

You again bring up the quote about race changing and AC changing as things that were being considered and "will likely" happen. Let's ignore for a moment the fact that statement was nothing but the devs blowing smoke up our collective keesters, and that they in no way stated that either of those things would definitely happen.

 

That statement was noting but pure spin. If they said "AC changes WILL happen" those that were against class changes would flock to the forums and many would likely leave this game. The opposite is also true. If they said that AC changes would never happen or were even unlikely to happen, you would have those players too lazy to actually level another character flocking to the forums and I'm sure a lot of those players would probably cancel their subs. By answering the way that they did, they do not anger those against class changes and at the same time those that want to change class can believe that EA said that they "WILL" happen. We've already had people in this very thread making the assertion that AC changing were definitely coming using that very quote as their proof.

 

We have just received that ability to change race which was one of the things mentioned in that quote as likely to happen, true. Again, a race change is completely COSMETIC while a class change is not. They are two totally different things.

[Deganji]

If it is going to be something that is treated as a dual spec, and can be switched out at any time, then I have to vote NO.

 

I have a hard enough time finding a group because there are too many "healers", by that I mean DPS spec people who take healer spots (and don't know the first thing about healing). If every Shadow, Gunslinger, and Vanguard can just up and switch to heals, I'll never find work as a dedicated healer.

 

Now, if we are talking something that cost quite a bit to do, or can only be done maybe once or twice in a characters career, then sure go for it.