Should there be a thing that lets you change to like a juggernaut to a murrader?

[Ratajack]

Just going to leave this here:

 

 

Quote:

18. Will be there any faction or Advanced Class change option available for purchase in the future?

We have had serious talks recently about offering an Advanced Class change option – I think that one will likely happen eventually. Species is likely as well. Doing a faction switch is considerably more difficult for us, though, due to the various quest flags set throughout the level up process, so this isn’t on the horizon anytime soon.

 

Do you notice the word I italicized? The word "likely" does not mean WILL. When devs or people in charge use terms like "likely" it's usually done as a way to avoid an issue while still seeming to address it.

 

In this case, by saying that AC changes will "likely" happen, it allows those that want AC changes to believe that the devs said that AC changes WILL happen. Continually throwing that quote around does not change the fact that nowhere in that quote did the devs say that AC changes WILL happen.

 

I'm not saying that AC changes will never happen, but I would not put too much stock in that quote as proof that they will happen, either.

 

The devs have also said previously that they have no intentions of allowing AC changes as they see the AC's as different classes.

[Qaoz]

I wouldn't mind it if they made it a "once per character" thing.

 

I took an Assassin to level 40 before I tried the Sorcerer. I liked the Sorcerer better, but I didn't feel like going through 40 levels of not only the same planet missions, but also the same class missions.

 

Considering how horribly linear and similar across classes the leveling experience is in this game, leveling another character of the same base class is just boring. It's not fun and video games should be fun. That's why it's called entertainment, right?

 

Why not allow people to change from one AC to another once per character? That way people can change to an AC they'd rather play, but they can't shuffle around every hour based on Operation and Warzone composition. It should be a one-time-only deal.

 

Slap a CC price on it and call it a day.

[CelCawdro]

Do you notice the word I italicized?

 

18. Will be there any faction or Advanced Class change option available for purchase in the future?

We have had serious talks recently about offering an Advanced Class change option – I think that one will likely happen eventually. Species is likely as well. Doing a faction switch is considerably more difficult for us, though, due to the various quest flags set throughout the level up process, so this isn’t on the horizon anytime soon.

I can italicize, as well. Species change now exists, and it was mentioned as "likely" in the same breath as advanced class swapping. I do see what you're saying, but I think you're not lending the quote enough credit, particularly when one of those likelihoods has always become a reality.

 

The devs have also said previously that they have no intentions of allowing AC changes as they see the AC's as different classes.

 

Different developers. Different focus. Different model for the game. A lot of things have changed since they held that stance, for good or for ill. I'd lend more credence to the more recent quote.

Edited May 15, 2013 by CelCawdro

[AsheraII]

Switching advanced class?

 

No

way

!!!

!

 

IF, and that is one huge

 

IF

Bioware ever decides to add additional advanced classes to the existing base classes, it would be a different matter. But without additional Advanced Classes being added, no way.

Edited May 15, 2013 by AsheraII

[AlexDougherty]

Yes they are. The Sith Warrior Class.

 

Not really, they might both be based on the Sith Warrior Base Class(with the same stats), but they have different abilities, play different, and have completely different Specs.

 

If people could change their advance class then they would end up playing with a character they don't understand. I have a Sith Marrauder, and if I changed him into a Juggernaut I would have to spend a week or three learning his abilities and play style. Or I could role a new Sith, play him as a Jugg and grow into the character, would take about three weeks, and people wuldn't be saying I don't understand the class I play during that time.

 

The difference is even more with the Sage/Sorceror and the Shadow/Assassin. And I the Rogue/Agents are similarly disparate in their advanced classes. The only one that I can't give an opinion on is the Trooper/BH advance classes.

[Ratajack]

I can italicize, as well. Species change now exists, and it was mentioned as "likely" in the same breath as advanced class swapping. I do see what you're saying, but I think you're not lending the quote enough credit, particularly when one of those likelihoods has always become a reality.

 

 

 

Different developers. Different focus. Different model for the game. A lot of things have changed since they held that stance, for good or for ill. I'd lend more credence to the more recent quote.

 

All that is true, but the devs continued to talk about upcoming race changes and we have heard not one more peep about even the possibility of changing classes from the devs. That says something as well.

[CelCawdro]

All that is true, but the devs continued to talk about upcoming race changes and we have heard not one more peep about even the possibility of changing classes from the devs. That says something as well.

 

A new species was released alongside the species change - they fed off of each other, financially. It made sense to ensure that this feature was available, and hype it alongside, the release of Cathar. They had good reason to talk about the species change because they wanted people to pay, doubly, for the Cathar unlock and switching over existing an character (or more).

 

There has been reason to market the species changes. Not the advanced class change, as of yet.

 

Both were once stated to be something that would "never" happen. Both were then stated to be "likely." All I'm saying is if one of those "likely"s transitioned into reality, there is very little reason to doubt the possibility of the other "likely" to make the leap to live servers, as well.

[Ratajack]

A new species was released alongside the species change - they fed off of each other, financially. It made sense to ensure that this feature was available, and hype it alongside, the release of Cathar. They had good reason to talk about the species change because they wanted people to pay, doubly, for the Cathar unlock and switching over existing an character (or more).

 

There has been reason to market the species changes. Not the advanced class change, as of yet.

 

Both were once stated to be something that would "never" happen. Both were then stated to be "likely." All I'm saying is if one of those "likely"s transitioned into reality, there is very little reason to doubt the possibility of the other "likely" to make the leap to live servers, as well.

 

I will not be deluding myself based on something said on order to sidestep an issue, especially when there has not been even a whisper from the devs since that interview. Until I hear something further from the devs, I'm going to go with the "AC changes are not on the table" theory.

[CelCawdro]

I will not be deluding myself based on something said on order to sidestep an issue, especially when there has not been even a whisper from the devs since that interview. Until I hear something further from the devs, I'm going to go with the "AC changes are not on the table" theory.

 

Originally, they weren't on the table. Then they were tabled at the exact same time as the species change that has since come to fruition. I'll never understand the desire of forum communities to have the development team restate their intentions every week to reconfirm.

 

Interesting to note: both guild ships and dual specializations were said to be in production before the game released. They were "tabled" at that moment. They've been said to have made their way back to the so-called "wall of crazy." Thus, they have been removed from the table. I would categorize both as extremely unlikely given that they were actively taken out of production. That being said, as you point out, they've said nothing on the subject since they stated that they were an intended feature.

 

On subjects like these, I take a "intended until future notice" stance. I go off of the most recent, direct sources of information. I do not take a lack of restatement as a retraction of a statement. This sort of reminds me about jokes regarding the male vs. female usage of the term, "I love you." According to a few comedians, women want to hear the term as often as possible to constantly assure them that the statement still stands. On the flip side, when men say, "I love you," they mean to say, "I love you until further notice." I tend to perceive statements from MMO developers as the latter, while many tend to perceive them as the former.

 

Suffice it to say, we simply have two differing, yet equally informed, opinions on the subject. Neither of us is in the wrong. I've enjoying following your line of thinking.

Edited May 15, 2013 by CelCawdro

[Risq]

You can already play several specs as 1 advanced class. A Juggernaut can be a tank or DPS. Us Marauders can only DPS.

 

Besides advanced classes are quite different or completely different from each other depending on the base class they originate from. An Inquisitor can be a Sorcerer or Assasin for example. Those 2 are as different as day and night are. Mage/Priest type Sorcerer and Rogue/Tank type Assasin compared to WoW.

 

So if you want to play a Marauder you can, you just have to start a new character.

 

Only cause I'm bored, but a question: switching between classes like the OP is asking about is "canon", riiigggghhhttt?

 

Episode 2 of the Star War Movie, when Anakin and Dooku fight for the first time, at the 1:35 mark of the youtube clip I included, while Obi-Wan is down, he throws Anakin his saber (because up to that point he was only using a single saber) and Anakin does "ok" with both for a while before he gets owned.

 

And in Episode 3 when he's older he takes Dooku's saber during the fight and then he uses the "2" of them to finish him off, right??

 

 

Episode II - 2:36 mark

 

But Anakin is clearly a single bladed Jedi Knight during most other fights, but has used dual blades in fights when he wants too. And he's not the only Star Wars character I believe has done that. Switched back and forth I mean.

 

Ok, Devil's Advocate mode off

[CelCawdro]

It's a dangerous thing to attempt to pigeonhole actual characters into class roles. Classes are based on mechanics moreso than they are lore. The mechanics and the lore will never truly mesh in a trinity-structured, themepark-type game. It's an impossibility. While it is possible to have a game that emulates the open-endedness of the "reality" of the lore, it would require a new game - not one built from the ground up on principles contrary to this ideal.

 

Think of it in these terms: the abilities of our canon characters, such as the Barsen'thor or the Emperor's Wrath are defined by the options presented. Asking "Is Asajj Ventress a Shadow or a Marauder?" is akin to asking "Is Asajj Ventress a Darth Maul or a Darth Sidious?" She's neither - all are unique, with their own preferences, abilities, strengths and weakness. As far as SW:TOR goes, "class" is a misnomer - we're playing actual characters within the confines given.

[Fergz]

when i played my jedi on both of the KoTOR games he/she could use a single blade or two blades or a double or even a blaster, if i decided to train that feat.

 

it just makes sense to let us change if we want to change

[gammofet]

just make it and if you wan't to change you can.

[wmcarson]

Well, the biggest argument for allowing an Advance Class change...imho... is that sometimes things change

 

Case in point is that every other major patch there seems to be a balance change to character specs. If tomorrow the Devs removed the ability for Guardians to use taunt...as a really really horrible example... would there not be some realistic expectation after all of that time/energy/money you put into leveling a Guardian...to at least have an 'out'?

 

And lets face it, the way you play an AC varies drastically between level 10 and level 55. Rotations, Abilities that affect each other, heck even the companions (ie having a tank companion for a healer) that you get change all the time as you level. It is very possible that something you enjoy around level 20-30 turns out to be a disappointment come level 55.

 

Or worse you join that great PVE guild and find out that because of your build you are 10 down the depth chart for raids, regardless of your skill. It happens.

 

THAT SAID..If there were to be an option to change ACs I would like to see things like the below, in order to deter people from making it a bad habit:

 

*Decent cost to change

 

*Continue to design end game gear to be focused on specific ACs. Would you be gung-ho about switching if it meant making your entire WZ Conqueror Gear set useless?

 

*Make it so you have to switch ACs either offline or somewhere inconvenient. Basically no 'changing ACs' in the middle of a WZ.

 

*Cooldown timer affecting ability to queue solo into Ops, FPs or WZs? IE you can't pug for the first 20 hours after change. Out of the box crazy, not even sure i like that.

Edited May 16, 2013 by wmcarson

[Darth_Moonshadow]

Class changing is a no-no in MMOs. You want that feature, you make your own MMO and do that.

[wmcarson]

Class changing is a no-no in MMOs. You want that feature, you make your own MMO and do that.

 

This isn't intended an attack...but...

 

what is your actual argument against it? Just to say no, or that its not something that should be done in an MMO... is..well.. not really worth the time to post to the forums is it?

Edited May 16, 2013 by wmcarson

[Darth_Moonshadow]

This isn't intended an attack...but...

 

what is your actual argument against it? Just to say no, or that its not something that should be done in an MMO... is..well.. not really worth the time to post to the forums is it?

 

It's either do this or watch Scandal for my girlfriend.

 

*continues to lurk forums*

[wmcarson]

It's either do this or watch Scandal for my girlfriend.

 

*continues to lurk forums*

Lol...well... I can't really argue against that good sir

[Repman]

I think that you should be able to change you spec like to a juggernaut to a murrader.As a number 1 starwars fan i love to play.But i started to think if you don,t like your spec like i don't like jugg you have a 1 time free change to change change if you want.I thought of this because 3 mill people left Wourld of Warcraft to play free games.plus as playing wow i know you can change if you don't like 1 spec.As a juggernaut i know you can't change.But i stoped have fun playing star wars because i don't like jug.I wrote a ticket on 5/13/13 and on 9/14/13 i was told it was a good idea.Thank you for reading this thread and i hope others agree to this change.

 

 

 

Thank You!

Sincerely

Lord Latorian

 

They're different classes, think of it as you're a Sith Warrior up until level 10 then you chose a new class either Juggernaut or Marauder

 

WoW lets you dual spec Fire and Frost for a Mage. Dual Speccing Juggernaut and Marauder would be like Dual Speccing Mage and Warlock

[gammofet]

They're different classes, think of it as you're a Sith Warrior up until level 10 then you chose a new class either Juggernaut or Marauder

 

WoW lets you dual spec Fire and Frost for a Mage. Dual Speccing Juggernaut and Marauder would be like Dual Speccing Mage and Warlock

 

:cool:Well they will just make it and then see if people like it.

[gorstram]

I think that you should be able to change you spec like to a juggernaut to a murrader.As a number 1 starwars fan i love to play.But i started to think if you don,t like your spec like i don't like jugg you have a 1 time free change to change change if you want.I thought of this because 3 mill people left Wourld of Warcraft to play free games.plus as playing wow i know you can change if you don't like 1 spec.As a juggernaut i know you can't change.But i stoped have fun playing star wars because i don't like jug.I wrote a ticket on 5/13/13 and on 9/14/13 i was told it was a good idea.Thank you for reading this thread and i hope others agree to this change.

 

 

 

Thank You!

Sincerely

Lord Latorian

 

That's a no can do ol' buddy. They've already said that they will not change the advanced class system. It is a meaningful choice that you HAVE to make. Also, if you swapped from Jugg to Mara your armor would become useless. Mara's are capped at medium armor while Juggs use heavy. You can already buy your respec down to nothing by becoming a subscriber and paying for field respecs. It's the next best thing to dual class. Additionally, think of the two Sith Warrior classes as a warrior and a rogue. The Jugg is a warrior wearing plate armor, while the mara is a rogue wearing leather. World of Warcraft does not allow warriors to spec into rogues and reverse for rogues to warriors. Even there, they have you make a meaningful decision and force you to stick with it.

 

But look at the bright side, with +25% exp consumables, leveling from 1-50 takes little to no time at all.

[Silverspar]

Really? A sage cannot stealth, but a shadow can. A scoundrel can stealth and heal, but a gunslinger cannot do either. Vanguards cannot heal, but commandos can. Sages are primarily ranged DPS/heals and shadows are much more melee oriented and can DPS/tank.

 

I can go on and on, but I hope you get the point. Advanced classes are your class. Allowing class changing is rarely a good thing.

 

Yes, and it's still a reach to claim that the advanced classes are different. A sawbones can stealth but not very well, a scrapper can heal but is terrible at it, trying to make the false claim that specs inside the classes are not vastly and don't play vastly different because of new abilities or new purpose for abilities within their skill set is both fooling yourself and reaching. There should be no reason that a person can't choose to be the different advanced class, even if it costs money on the Market. Not everyone wants to play the same class again, I certainly don't. There is nothing different about them no matter how people try to claim there is. I know I personally want to swap my shadow over to a sage and have a healing character, and there is nothing that would ever get me to play the boring, drab story line of a consular ever again.

 

So really, quit reaching in your claims.

[gorstram]

Seriously folks, it's a non-point. The devs have said it will never happen. This came up a few months before F2P, and it was shot down quicker than a British hot air balloon over WW2 Nazi Germany.

[Uruare]

It'll probably wind up being something like a 1000-1200CC one-use, 30 day lockout item in the store eventually, when someone gets around to monetizing on it.

 

Just my view of pattern-spotting opinion anyway.

[CosmicKat]

I don't see any reason, practical or otherwise why people shouldn't be able to change their advanced class. Same storyline so there's no technical reason for it.

 

My first character was a sage, I thought I'd go Shadow since I didn't want to be primarily a healer. Didn't know that choosing Shadow excluded me totally from getting healing abilities.