ninjonxb Posted May 15, 2013 Share Posted May 15, 2013 You may get a response but I wouldn't really expect one. This is working exactly as intended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glower Posted May 16, 2013 Share Posted May 16, 2013 /sigh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quraswren Posted May 16, 2013 Share Posted May 16, 2013 agreed. if they were bugged they should have been fixed ages ago. the original toys were released back in 1.5. This was never put as a known issue for over 7 months and thus should not be attributed to a bug! Pretty much this ^. The change was just another way to drain coins and make a little cash if they can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Themanthatisi Posted May 16, 2013 Share Posted May 16, 2013 Pretty much this ^. The change was just another way to drain coins and make a little cash if they can. Yep, unless your a fanboy, you will tell others it was a bug, like the poster a few above this... Why do fanboys defend everything? do they not realize that unhappy people will keep leaving the game, or spend less and less on the CM and hurt the game from staying around? The toys were used to milk us further, it is very obvious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Themanthatisi Posted May 16, 2013 Share Posted May 16, 2013 (edited) So if I'm reading this right your talking about some of the items that weren't bound that are now. Before you bounced them around? I guess, I see what you're saying now, but still, isn't it better to just be able to clone it ALL your characters if you like it so much? How much is the unlock? Also the point of just buying others on the GTN is a good point too as another way around. Most of those 'toys' you're talking about don't sell for more than 1k on GTN anyway. LOL.. Revan's Holo is more than 300k, Music therapy, over 750k.... should I go on? Have you looked into the kolto chamber? the Carbon chamber? People paid REAL money for them in many cases, directly off the CM or in a Gamble Pack, assuming they would not change, it was NEVER a reported bug. toys have been shared between alts and friends since they started a year or so ago, it was never a bug that has been reported and they kept issuing toys on following packs, now they change this to bound. Here, let me bend over further so it goes deep enough.... Edited May 16, 2013 by Themanthatisi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alec_Fortescue Posted May 16, 2013 Author Share Posted May 16, 2013 Thanksfor bumps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Themanthatisi Posted May 16, 2013 Share Posted May 16, 2013 Thanksfor bumps. Don't say thanks, your one of the voices of reason with this issue, and took the time to get this post going... Thank you for taking a lead in this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alec_Fortescue Posted May 16, 2013 Author Share Posted May 16, 2013 (edited) Don't say thanks, your one of the voices of reason with this issue, and took the time to get this post going... Thank you for taking a lead in this. It did cost me a warn, but hey. You're welcome. ;] I like your sig. Edited May 16, 2013 by Alec_Fortescue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alec_Fortescue Posted May 17, 2013 Author Share Posted May 17, 2013 Since CMs showed up I thought we might get an answer... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleet_Xia Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 Nope. They're taking the old school approach. Just ignore it and it will go away. Old school approach? You mean ignoring unhappy subscribers until they go away? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shoogli Posted May 18, 2013 Share Posted May 18, 2013 (edited) The reality is they should have always been bind on use. You all know this... you were just jazzed the they messed it up in the first place so you could pass the toys around from character to character like a they were a cheap call girl. One of the problem here, *even* if it was not intended to have them not bound is to let the thing running for (how long was it like 6 months now ?) so long and get people be accustomed to the way toys worked because well they were toys... The thing is, at first many people would have looked at for example the carbonite chamber or the holo-rancor and think : hmmmm that's expensive am not going to get that, then a friend tells them : well it's cool they don't bind so when you're tired on it on this character you can send it to another or sell it on the GTN, making the item much more valuable and thus not seem so costly in the first place. Frankly it's like you buy a software that has a not too hard DRM that let's you use it on several computers, at home, at work, on your laptop... Then one day it gets patched and suddenly you can only use it on your desktop and if you want to use it on your laptop then you have to buy it again... They changed it to bind on use. You can easily unlock and clone then across your ENTIRE ACCOUNT FOREVER if you want multiples. That costs CC my dear, the CC you told people they had to save for the Cathar, for customization... And now save again for toys ???? Yeah yeah we know : the monthly stipend again, the SO-CALLED complimentary monthly grant that is the wildcard to make them evade the fact that they try to dry up everyone's CC the faster they can to make people to buy more... Geez this monthly CC trick IS GREAT ! It can be used over and over and over to explain EVERYTHING ! And at the same time we're still the beloved customers, the highly valued subbers : BUT OF COURSE ! Genius plan ! Because our sub is not enough, because they want more, because their sole goal now is to make everyone pay more, even subbers, even those of us that stuck with them through hard times, that subbed since the start, that trusted them, that supported them, I'll just leave this here : Anything that went down and then up CAN GO DOWN AGAIN... And after that you think it will go up again ? This is an MMO.. things not intended or that intention changes when the game changes results in items changing too. You all know this as well if you are MMO players... so that brings us back to the bad analogy about a cheap call girl. That's not true, because if it's the case then you fix it right away, you don't do it like 6 months after because suddenly it collides with the collection thing and you suddenly realize it's going to make you loose on one of the way to dry up the CCs. It was all fine for all those months, it never showed up on the known bug list, and suddenly this is something they need to fix asap ? How about they spend their time fixing all that is on the backburner first ? But no : it collides with the collection so BAM here's the fix : in no time... They should learn to give first instead of always wanting to take. They wouldn't have all this backlash and this bad press. And Alec..Mr "I've got tens of millions of credits"... is the last person to take seriously about having to buy something multiple times off the GTN. You can buy all you want and never make use of the unlock feature if you are credit rich and coin stingy. Yeah attack the person to discredit him : wait, does it remind me of something ? Oh ! here : I was responding about the irony of your snarky comment about credibility, where you were trying to discredit another forum member instead of responding objectively about what your disagreements are about the 30% comment the player made. I do not bother trying to discredit forum posters. There is no value in doing so. They present their views and supporting information. I present mine. Others present theres.. and it goes on and on. The readers decide for themselves what is credible and what is not. So hum YES YOU DO bother trying to discredit posters : you just did with Alec... One more case of the "do what I say don't do what i do" to add to the zillions we're now accustomed with coming from you Andryah... Edited May 18, 2013 by Shoogli Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andryah Posted May 18, 2013 Share Posted May 18, 2013 (edited) Yeah attack the person to discredit him : wait, does it remind me of something ? Oh ! here : So hum YES YOU DO bother trying to discredit posters : you just did with Alec... One more case of the "do what I say don't do what i do" to add to the zillions we're now accustomed with coming from you Andryah... Nonsense. All I said was that I was not sympathetic to him pretending to QQ over in game credits. That's not a discredit to him, it's my opinion and is based on how much and how often he has bragged in forum about his vast in game wealth. I do admit as was a bit snarky about it. But hey.. Alec and I exchange snark back and forth in the forum from time to time. That's between us, and has nothing to do with you. Edited May 18, 2013 by Andryah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shoogli Posted May 18, 2013 Share Posted May 18, 2013 Nonsense. All I said was that I was not sympathetic to him pretending to QQ over in game credits. That's not a discredit to him, it's my opinion and is based on how much and how often he has bragged in forum about his vast in game wealth. I do admit as was a bit snarky about it. But hey.. Alec and I exchange snark back and forth in the forum from time to time. That's between us, and has nothing to do with you. Yeah of course... Always the same thing : when it's you doing it it's snark and all fun and games, when it's other people being snarky you jump on them to lesson and patronize them... Yeaaaaaaahh riiiiiiiiiight... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andryah Posted May 18, 2013 Share Posted May 18, 2013 (edited) Yeah of course... Always the same thing : when it's you doing it it's snark and all fun and games, when it's other people being snarky you jump on them to lesson and patronize them... Yeaaaaaaahh riiiiiiiiiight... O.... some Irony. Whatever dude. Put me on /ignore.. or get over it IMO. Personally I enjoy the back and forth with Alec. Why you choose to butt in and try to "school" me about it, I have no idea. Alec can speak for himself. I respect him, even though we rarely agree. Edited May 18, 2013 by Andryah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NemesisVision Posted May 18, 2013 Share Posted May 18, 2013 I'm not sure everyone fully understands how the Collections system works. Lets use the Remote Control Starfighter as an example. You obtain the Toy, whether from the CM directly or from the GTN. You either pay CC or creds, whichever the case may be. When you add that item to your collection you then have the option of paying another CC fee to unlock that item in your collection. Yes, it is an extra charge. It does suck. But. . . . . It's a ONE TIME CHARGE. Once you unlock that item in your Collection, you will never, ever have to pay anything to unlock it again. Ever. Now, you can create UNLIMITED COPIES of that item. As many as you like. FOR EVERY SINGLE CHARACTER ON YOUR ACCOUNT. Yes, the extra charge is kinda crappy, but you get UNLIMITED COPIES of Color Crystals, Vehicles, Minipets, Armor, Weapons and yes, toys. Unlimited Toys for you and all your homies. Is that really that bad of a deal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shoogli Posted May 18, 2013 Share Posted May 18, 2013 Yes, the extra charge is kinda crappy, but you get UNLIMITED COPIES of Color Crystals, Vehicles, Minipets, Armor, Weapons and yes, toys. Unlimited Toys for you and all your homies. Is that really that bad of a deal? It may not be that bad of a deal or course, depending on the player, how many characters he has, for crystals, vehicles, armor, weapons, minipets... Fine... I kind of agree... The problem is those toys had a value, this value was, for the biggest chunk of it the toy and its ability per se, AND the fact it was not bound, let's say for a lesser chunk of that value. Now they've been devaluated, of course in order to make people shell more cash or cc. Wouldn't be a big deal if it has been done since the start, a week after : "sorry was a bug, was unintended". But it's never been considered a bug, the devs let it that way and it was an added value to the toy, making it more desireable and probably making a few more sales because of it. For 6 months ! So they're double-dipping : giving it a little more value which boosts the sales a little bit, and after that taking the functionnality away by telling us it was a bug and not intended. And of course : coincidence it happens when collections come in game... What that means is, it was a bug that didn't have priority until now. Suddenly it becomes a priority beause it could become a loss of income through the CM. And thus people are seeing the trend being confirmed, the priority of fixing bugs is not always really tied to the complexity and all that but more so on the ROI... So that's really what is making people annoyed I believe. Then again it's not the first time it happens. When there were backlashes about this or that gear that was bugged and because it came from the CM it had high priority to get a fix, be it some Revan's piece or i don't remember which. Once though, they did that nice classic through the mail thing and it was really appreciated. Problem is there's been tons of other pieces of gear that had bugs and problems and that never got fixed because they weren't part of the brand new, or 2 or 3 weeks old last CM batch AND not part of a general outcry in the forum, whereas they had the same kind of bugs... And then we get PR responses "yeah yeah this or that bug not so easy, blah blah". It's true to a certain extent of course, but it shows a lot that there is a hidden priority to anything that affects anything new in the CM, and that other stuffs that aren't more difficult to fix get no love and stay on the backburner for a looooooong while : and that's not only non-CM items, it's also old CM items. And the worst of that is the stuff that was supposed to get a fix such as the flourish emotes when there was an outcry in the forum, and now that people have flocked to other stuff, not only the flourish emote is still not fixed but they probably stay silent about it hoping we forget about it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleet_Xia Posted May 18, 2013 Share Posted May 18, 2013 Wouldn't be a big deal if it has been done since the start, a week after : "sorry was a bug, was unintended". But it's never been considered a bug, the devs let it that way and it was an added value to the toy, making it more desireable and probably making a few more sales because of it. For 6 months ! So they're double-dipping : giving it a little more value which boosts the sales a little bit, and after that taking the functionnality away by telling us it was a bug and not intended. And of course : coincidence it happens when collections come in game... What that means is, it was a bug that didn't have priority until now. Suddenly it becomes a priority beause it could become a loss of income through the CM. Yep. The only thing I'd add to this is that some of these toys were bought for cash - that players bought them based on the features they had at the time of purchase, and now an important feature has been removed. This change didn't add value to the items for anyone who already owned them. - it simply saves you the trouble of sending an email when you want to move the toy to another toon. So - for the low price of 240CC I can now avoid sending an email, WHAT A DEAL!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alec_Fortescue Posted May 18, 2013 Author Share Posted May 18, 2013 (edited) Hey. Thanks for bumps and fighting for the right cause. I really hope this will come to some kind of a compromise. If you have noticed, pre-orer and exclusive promotional items cost only 1 CC to unlock for the entire account. Perhaps we can have similar amount for toys...? Or at least make them bind to legacy upon use. Edited May 18, 2013 by Alec_Fortescue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shoogli Posted May 18, 2013 Share Posted May 18, 2013 If you have noticed, pre-orer and exclusive promotional items cost only 1 CC to unlock for the entire account. This is hilarious, and sad at the same time... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
decoyofham Posted May 18, 2013 Share Posted May 18, 2013 It may not be that bad of a deal or course, depending on the player, how many characters he has, for crystals, vehicles, armor, weapons, minipets... Fine... I kind of agree... The problem is those toys had a value, this value was, for the biggest chunk of it the toy and its ability per se, AND the fact it was not bound, let's say for a lesser chunk of that value. Now they've been devaluated, of course in order to make people shell more cash or cc. Wouldn't be a big deal if it has been done since the start, a week after : "sorry was a bug, was unintended". But it's never been considered a bug, the devs let it that way and it was an added value to the toy, making it more desireable and probably making a few more sales because of it. For 6 months ! So they're double-dipping : giving it a little more value which boosts the sales a little bit, and after that taking the functionnality away by telling us it was a bug and not intended. And of course : coincidence it happens when collections come in game... What that means is, it was a bug that didn't have priority until now. Suddenly it becomes a priority beause it could become a loss of income through the CM. And thus people are seeing the trend being confirmed, the priority of fixing bugs is not always really tied to the complexity and all that but more so on the ROI... So that's really what is making people annoyed I believe. Then again it's not the first time it happens. When there were backlashes about this or that gear that was bugged and because it came from the CM it had high priority to get a fix, be it some Revan's piece or i don't remember which. Once though, they did that nice classic through the mail thing and it was really appreciated. Problem is there's been tons of other pieces of gear that had bugs and problems and that never got fixed because they weren't part of the brand new, or 2 or 3 weeks old last CM batch AND not part of a general outcry in the forum, whereas they had the same kind of bugs... And then we get PR responses "yeah yeah this or that bug not so easy, blah blah". It's true to a certain extent of course, but it shows a lot that there is a hidden priority to anything that affects anything new in the CM, and that other stuffs that aren't more difficult to fix get no love and stay on the backburner for a looooooong while : and that's not only non-CM items, it's also old CM items. And the worst of that is the stuff that was supposed to get a fix such as the flourish emotes when there was an outcry in the forum, and now that people have flocked to other stuff, not only the flourish emote is still not fixed but they probably stay silent about it hoping we forget about it... I see now, you are concerned these 'toys' are worth less now. Are you worried that you cannot sell that item for stupidly insane prices on the gtn anymore because once someone has an item they can unlock for their other toons? shame that people might have to drop gtn prices because eventually less people want that item, real shame Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shoogli Posted May 18, 2013 Share Posted May 18, 2013 I see now, you are concerned these 'toys' are worth less now. Are you worried that you cannot sell that item for stupidly insane prices on the gtn anymore because once someone has an item they can unlock for their other toons? shame that people might have to drop gtn prices because eventually less people want that item, real shame Nice try... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alec_Fortescue Posted May 22, 2013 Author Share Posted May 22, 2013 I seriously feel like i need to bump this. Why the items we have paid for are no longer there and suddenly get replaced with something that binds and requires extra $ to share with alts and no longer can be shared with friends? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Themanthatisi Posted May 22, 2013 Share Posted May 22, 2013 (edited) I seriously feel like i need to bump this. Why the items we have paid for are no longer there and suddenly get replaced with something that binds and requires extra $ to share with alts and no longer can be shared with friends? I agree! I decided to use my Revan Holo in a OPS this weekend, so now it is bound to me and I do not even see a way to duplicate it in the "collections" window. So, even if I wanted to pay, there is not a way or its bugged and not yet fixed. Bottom line, it should not be bound, it was never reported to be a bug when it was not bound and could be shared..... Yet, I and others, spent real or lots of in game money for some of these toys and now, we can't use them as we thought. The defenders of the bound toys are either BW employees or love someone milking them for every dollar. There is capitalism free markets and there is greed, what happened in this update was a mixture of both at work.... The greed part is a huge turn off. I had no problem with some of the things in the CM, but the color dye gambling packs and the losing of toys both point to the greed factor.... playing us for fools and taking the money while they laugh. Edited May 22, 2013 by Themanthatisi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alec_Fortescue Posted May 22, 2013 Author Share Posted May 22, 2013 There is capitalism free markets and there is greed, what happened in this update was a mixture of both at work.... The greed part is a huge turn off. I had no problem with some of the things in the CM, but the color dye gambling packs and the losing of toys both point to the greed factor.... playing us for fools and taking the money while they laugh. Don't mix free market into this! Free market doesn't exist nowadays ^^' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glower Posted May 24, 2013 Share Posted May 24, 2013 Bioware, pls at least one answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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