Healing IS TOTALLY ouf of control

[mulzii]

what they need to do is nerf all heals casted on self by 25%. eg. You cast a heal on a teammate for 1000, that same spell only heals yourself for 750. etc.. This would not reduce a healer's effectiveness to heal their team directly, and would focus the group on protecting the healer more while making opposing teams have a chance to kill them.

[Jorojus]

/sigh

[Daskillz]

****!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ROFL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! SWTOR home of the PvP rejects!

 

Agreed, speaking as a healer myself we are only OP against awful players. Playing against a team of people who actually know how to.. ya know.. play their class effectively. Healing is not an easy job. I've had games where I almost got 2 million healing but still didn't feel like I was able to keep many people alive.

 

Pvp games are won by DPS not by heals contrary to belief. This has been proven many times by my guild in wzs. They focus one target and I go bug the other teams healer and the dude is dead. This game isn't that hard guys .

 

So yeah as somebody said earlier. This is simply an L2P issue, but then again most of the QQ threads on these forums are L2P issues. Too many scrubs who never played MMOs play this game and would rather cry about other classes than actually learn how to play theirs. Players who actually feel obligated to learn how to play a game in which they're playing monthly for are so rare which is sad.

Edited May 19, 2013 by Daskillz

[Ajuntalee]

what they need to do is nerf all heals casted on self by 25%. eg. You cast a heal on a teammate for 1000, that same spell only heals yourself for 750. etc.. This would not reduce a healer's effectiveness to heal their team directly, and would focus the group on protecting the healer more while making opposing teams have a chance to kill them.

 

Nah that would gimp healers in one vs one and that is not necessary, that would also make healers number one squishies and make it a no brainer to focus on them,*

 

As the expression suggests "no brainers" don't include use of brain and are de facto hurting game's interest. There already is cheesy pve on that game for people who hate to use their brains, their interrups, their debuffs and the keys beyond "1,2,3,4, and 5" on their keyboard.

 

The current game depth is better as it is, where you have to decide wether you should punch the tank, punch the nuker, punch the aoer or punch the healer. and that meta game is as much a part of skill as knowing when to kill, when to cap, when to suicide split, when to pull ennemy lemmings ashtray, and what rotation to use when and against who.

 

It can be improved but not with that change IMHO.

 

What they could do, is that the healing received bonus talents are only working for you own heals and not everyone's heal, or a mix of both, some beneffiting only selfcast heals some benefitting all received.

 

A tweak to ganking/tanking/healing balance is probably not going to hurt the game, but lets be fair 50% of the player base don't ever use their interrupts/cc at the right time , and 50% of those tunnel vision button mashers will come here complain healing heals too much, and on the sages/snipers forums that nukers hit too hard.

 

The most powerfull spells in this game are out of gcd and they cost little to no energy (guard, taunt, mass taunt, interrupts, antispikes) there is 0 excuse for not using them as often as possible other than not being a good player yet.

Edited May 19, 2013 by Ajuntalee

[Raansu]

Ever heard of interrupt, pushbacks, pullsn hardstun, mezz, roots and slows

 

In short words "crowd control abilities" Here I found a wiki about it ... http://www.wowwiki.com/Crowd_control

 

SWTOR needs a wiki too !!!

 

You clearly didn't read what LaBu said...

[tatatan]

Healing is FINE.

I have to really laugh, how heaps of baddies DPS complain in this QQ cry rivers thread.

I play Operative and i switch between DPS na healing in PUGs as i see fit.

I can be killed by single good DPS when healing. It is possible, it just has to be good player and i have to have some of my specs on cooldown (stimboost, CC breaker, have DoTs on me for someone else, get caught in AoE ...) it is situational.

I can also kill healer, if i do it smart if i play DPS spec.

 

It all boils down to the thing, that i actually play DPS and healer, so i know how it works.

 

As for 4 healers in team? I dont like it. On contrary, e.g in AHG we faced team with 4 healers, we had only one and we rolled them flat. We had some smashers on our team and good players.

You cant outheal burst dmg on one guy, just take 4 smashers and let them jump train in bunch of players, then try to outheal it .. you wont.

 

It is all about if players are good or not.

[RodneyMcNeely]

I can be killed by single good DPS when healing.

Wow. You're a horrible healer.

[MotorCityMan]

Agreed, speaking as a healer myself we are only OP against awful players. Playing against a team of people who actually know how to.. ya know.. play their class effectively. Healing is not an easy job. I've had games where I almost got 2 million healing but still didn't feel like I was able to keep many people alive.

 

Pvp games are won by DPS not by heals contrary to belief. This has been proven many times by my guild in wzs. They focus one target and I go bug the other teams healer and the dude is dead. This game isn't that hard guys .

 

So yeah as somebody said earlier. This is simply an L2P issue, but then again most of the QQ threads on these forums are L2P issues. Too many scrubs who never played MMOs play this game and would rather cry about other classes than actually learn how to play theirs. Players who actually feel obligated to learn how to play a game in which they're playing monthly for are so rare which is sad.

 

A lot of so called pvp players want this game to play like a first person shooter on their playstations. And if stuff doesn't die right away we get an avalanche of QQ threads. These are the same players who never want to defend, even at the cost of losing a match, and who never mark and focus a healer, let alone peeling for one of their own healers. The same players who always remain never give a thought to LoS issues, etc. etc.

Edited May 19, 2013 by MotorCityMan

[xxIncubixx]

the numbers are working, whats not working is teamwork on the side of the dds.

healer teamwork is easier to achieve as the ui automatically provides an operation team overview, while making the ui assist you to assist needs a bit of preperation wich 99.99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999% (i think you get the direction) of the dd classes are either unwilling or unable to do.

 

healing is way to much its close to impossible to kill a derpoperative or scoundrel after 2.0 especialy if there is another healer nearby. Anndddd if there is a guard... well might aswell just respawn.

Edited May 19, 2013 by xxIncubixx

[MotorCityMan]

healing is way to much its close to impossible to kill a derpoperative or scoundrel after 2.0 especialy if there is another healer nearby.

 

Good, healers are supposed to be hard to kill. In case you haven't noticed, the trade off is that they cannot kill you.

[xxIncubixx]

Good, healers are supposed to be hard to kill. In case you haven't noticed, the trade off is that they cannot kill you.

 

lol no healers should be easy to kill, they should always be squishies and needing others to help them survive (Tank). or else this disaster happens. problem is right now Healers can pretty much survive easily, a tank is just a bonus.

Edited May 19, 2013 by xxIncubixx

[kweassa]

lol no healers should be easy to kill, they should always be squishies and needing others to help them survive (Tank). or else this disaster happens. problem is right now Healers can pretty much survive easily, a tank is just a bonus.

 

So because some of the PvP population don't know how to neuter healers during combat, the healers need to be castrated into total non-potency so that they can't even function as a class by themselves?

 

So that anyone who knows to mash any attack skill button in any sequence can still bring them down?

[MidichIorian]

Good, healers are supposed to be hard to kill. In case you haven't noticed, the trade off is that they cannot kill you.

Yes they (we) can and quite smoothly too if we find ourselves in a situation where we have to 1 vs 1 someone.

Edited May 19, 2013 by MidichIorian

[RodneyMcNeely]

So because some of the PvP population don't know how to neuter healers during combat, the healers need to be castrated into total non-potency so that they can't even function as a class by themselves?

 

So that anyone who knows to mash any attack skill button in any sequence can still bring them down?

No. Because from a lore standpoint, it's completely ludicrous that a Jedi Knight or a Sith Warrior wouldn't be able to kill a combat medic.

 

I do understand that player characters (including healers of all stripes) are exceptional in every way, but when the most deadly combatants in the galaxy (Jedi/Sith) can have their lightsaber, telekinetic, and Force Lightning attacks just ignored by a guy with a few cybernetic implants and high-grade pharmaceuticals, it's just ridiculous.

 

I understand that PvP =/= Lore; I get that. But don't you think it's ridiculous that a single DPS has to be at the top of his game and execute every maneuver flawlessly in order to stand a chance of beating the slowest and laziest healer?

 

The balance in PvP is just off and needs to be fixed.

[Astarica]

All the people who claim DPS aren't skilled must be completely oblivious of the changes in 2.0.

 

In 2.0, healers that aren't Commandoes receive significant upgrade to survivality/sustainabilty, such as:

 

Roll (Op)

Cheaper HoTs (Op, not really needed but never hurts)

Force Barrier (Sorc)

Polarity Shift given to everyone for free (faster heals + interrupt immunity)

Faster AE heal (Sorc)

 

On the other hand DPS receive no meaningful new skills that can kill a healer. Electro Net is about the only highlight and that's hardly a specific anti-healer skill.

 

So even if things were balanced prior to 2.0, it stands to follow that having a much powerful set of tools would lead to healing become less skilled because less skilled players tend to flock to a powerful class.

 

Another obvious counterpoint is that nobody is actually complaining about Commando healers, and WZ aren't in danger of seeing a flood of these guys either, since it is obvious that Commando healers aren't as overpowered as other healers. I sure see nobody post, "I am a Commando healer and you must L2P to kill me", since nobody is actually complaining about Commando healers, not to mention they can be shut down or flat out killed just fine.

[Pattotwo]

Wow. You're a horrible healer.

 

Haha agree

[Pattotwo]

What diagnostic scan that channels faster then the main heal of operative, control yourself and interrupt the right ability .... Are you a clicker ?

 

I think someone I begging don't nerf my healer in pvp, I like playing god mode

[AdrianDmitruk]

All the people who claim DPS aren't skilled must be completely oblivious of the changes in 2.0.

 

In 2.0, healers that aren't Commandoes receive significant upgrade to survivality/sustainabilty, such as:

 

Roll (Op)

Cheaper HoTs (Op, not really needed but never hurts)

Force Barrier (Sorc)

Polarity Shift given to everyone for free (faster heals + interrupt immunity)

Faster AE heal (Sorc)

 

On the other hand DPS receive no meaningful new skills that can kill a healer. Electro Net is about the only highlight and that's hardly a specific anti-healer skill.

 

So even if things were balanced prior to 2.0, it stands to follow that having a much powerful set of tools would lead to healing become less skilled because less skilled players tend to flock to a powerful class.

 

Another obvious counterpoint is that nobody is actually complaining about Commando healers, and WZ aren't in danger of seeing a flood of these guys either, since it is obvious that Commando healers aren't as overpowered as other healers. I sure see nobody post, "I am a Commando healer and you must L2P to kill me", since nobody is actually complaining about Commando healers, not to mention they can be shut down or flat out killed just fine.

 

One thing this post misses is that sorcs also had survivability and utility taken AWAY from them. Not only did bubblestun get taken away (justifiably I might add), but the root on knockback got moved so high up the dps tree that healers can't get it anymore. If we didn't get buffs in other areas, it would be worse than 1.2: Rise of the Operative Healer (Because Everything Else Is Now Worthless). The interrupt immunity and bubble do help a lot to offset the loss of bubblestun AND ROOT (which all the dps seems to forget about), but we did need something back to offset the nerfs. And, I might add, the cooldowns on our new shinies are a lot longer than 20 second root and 14 second bubblestun lockout.

 

And losing the root is really only worth it BECAUSE our top tier talent got buffed. Before it was more or less useless in PVP, definitely not worth taking over anything worthwhile from a hybrid build. Now we don't have a hybrid, but at least our top tier talent actually looks like a top tier talent in PVP.

[Astarica]

One thing this post misses is that sorcs also had survivability and utility taken AWAY from them. Not only did bubblestun get taken away (justifiably I might add), but the root on knockback got moved so high up the dps tree that healers can't get it anymore. If we didn't get buffs in other areas, it would be worse than 1.2: Rise of the Operative Healer (Because Everything Else Is Now Worthless). The interrupt immunity and bubble do help a lot to offset the loss of bubblestun AND ROOT (which all the dps seems to forget about), but we did need something back to offset the nerfs. And, I might add, the cooldowns on our new shinies are a lot longer than 20 second root and 14 second bubblestun lockout.

 

And losing the root is really only worth it BECAUSE our top tier talent got buffed. Before it was more or less useless in PVP, definitely not worth taking over anything worthwhile from a hybrid build. Now we don't have a hybrid, but at least our top tier talent actually looks like a top tier talent in PVP.

 

Bubblestun still works on your own bubbles. I mean yes other people's bubble gets popped in chaotic situations which helps your own survivality, but if other people's bubble are popping, whoever popped it isn't actually attacking the healer in any meaningful capacity (unless it's a Smasher). Root doesn't really stop melee as much as people think because most of the time root gets removed by colltoral damage. Two classes (Tanksin/PT) can reasonably continue doing DPS even while rooted. Ranged DPS obviously aren't hindered by roots (not that it'd make sense to be close enough to one to KB them in the first place). Sorcs are much easier to kill prior to 2.0 than now and it's not even that close. The escape mechanisms back then were pretty much useless against anyone who can do DPS at 10m or greater.

[AdrianDmitruk]

Bubblestun still works on your own bubbles. I mean yes other people's bubble gets popped in chaotic situations which helps your own survivality, but if other people's bubble are popping, whoever popped it isn't actually attacking the healer in any meaningful capacity (unless it's a Smasher). Root doesn't really stop melee as much as people think because most of the time root gets removed by colltoral damage. Two classes (Tanksin/PT) can reasonably continue doing DPS even while rooted. Ranged DPS obviously aren't hindered by roots (not that it'd make sense to be close enough to one to KB them in the first place). Sorcs are much easier to kill prior to 2.0 than now and it's not even that close. The escape mechanisms back then were pretty much useless against anyone who can do DPS at 10m or greater.

 

The root was 14 points up in the tree, bubblestun 20.

 

Root gets broken by damage after 2 seconds--still would be long enough to LOS in many cases. That and the root hits multiple targets--quite helpful indeed. Not as powerful as force barrier by any means, but as mentioned it's on a much shorter cooldown. It got moved 27 points up for no other reason than "hurr durr nerf hybrids." I don't remember DPS QQing about the root pre-2.0.

 

Bubblestun got nerfed to a self-only mez--a mez that's really only good as an interrupt because melee will have dots on it 99% of the time. Like a sorc healer is going to go 20 points up in a DPS tree JUST for a self-only mez, without picking up the root along the way?

 

Sorry, but I have to say that but for the buffs sorcs got in other areas, we'd be just as useless in the healer hierarchy as we were the day after 1.2 came out, when operatives were the only healers worth anything in PvP. But of course since DPS spent so long QQing about bubblestun and got our root taken away as collateral damage, we absolutely can't have some other buff put in to maintain relative balance, now can we?

Edited May 19, 2013 by AdrianDmitruk

[Eillack]

So because some of the PvP population don't know how to neuter healers during combat, the healers need to be castrated into total non-potency so that they can't even function as a class by themselves?

 

So that anyone who knows to mash any attack skill button in any sequence can still bring them down?

 

Story of the CM Commando since 1.2 .......

 

In a way it pisses me off to no end that 90% of my wz's are stunlocked, but on the other hand it shows that some people know how to play.....now if only Reps attacked enemy healers!!!

[Thrasymicus]

the numbers are working, whats not working is teamwork on the side of the dds.

healer teamwork is easier to achieve as the ui automatically provides an operation team overview, while making the ui assist you to assist needs a bit of preperation wich 99.99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999% (i think you get the direction) of the dd classes are either unwilling or unable to do.

 

All of the healing specs in the game have a green symbol that shows up next to the cast bar... it's very obvious. When I am on my DD I immediately switch to/mark the target unless it's an offhealing dps... then it's a maybe

[Astarica]

After running into another talentless premade that ran 3 healers it finally dawned on me that although healing is in general overpowered, the root of the problem is the Operative, and in fact they're responsible for Sorcerers being overpowered. Let me explain.

 

Even before 2.0 it's pretty clear that Operative healing is ez-mode. All you do is run around like a headless chicken spamming your 3 instant heals and you'll generally be just fine. The only weakness of an Operative is that they lack thoroughput. That is, sometime you could just say rather than chasing this Operative running in a circle spamming Adernaline Probe all day, what if we just focus fire another juicy target (say, the other healer that isn't an Operative), knowing that the Operative is likely only going to do Adernalin Probe spam? Since one of their cast heal was useless pre 2.0, they only spell they can cast is standard 2.0s heal and it's fairly easy to interrupt it. The end result is that a freecasting Operative and an Operative always on the move usually have identical HPS, so it was actually okay to ignore them sometime and focus fire someone else.

 

Now in 2.0, Operative healing somehow got made even easier (the TA consuming heal actually heals for something, even cheaper HoTs). So the first logical thing to do is if 1 Operative spamming Adernalin Probe isn't enough, you try running two of them. But wait, there's no reason to stop here. If you could put god mode on a healer, it's almost certain that the Sorc will be top in terms of overall healing done because the class appears to be designed to be easiest healer to kill which necessarily means they must have the greatest output. Sorcs got quite a few survivality improvement, but more importantly now with 1 or even 2 Operative pumping Adernaline Probes on you, the chance of dying is greatly reduced. No the other team can't stop the Operatives because Adernaline Probe spam is unstoppable outside of hard CCs. You also have to actually respect the Operative's casted heals (even though they're still rarely cast) so the end result is that the normally squishy healer (Sorc) gets propped up by Operatives and you end up with an unkillable healer team.

 

Note that Commando benefits nothing from this because Commando is designed to be self-sufficeint and tanky. Their heals are always relatively easy to interrupt but they make that up by being pretty tough to kill. Well if you can keep up a Sorc alive there's no reason to use a Commando, because the Sorc will definitely heal for more overall.

 

Looking back at my games, the games where you only have a Sorc healer(s) is controllable. I think they're still overpowered, but it's within an acceptable the limit the same way some DPS classes are always going to be overpowered relative to other DPS classes. As long as you're sure there isn't someone pumping Adernaline Probes on that Sorc, you can eventually kill him once you located all the other potential sources of healing, as every Sorc/Commando can be neutralized in some way and it's only a matter of time. It might take too long for the average PUG to be comfortable with, but it's doable.

 

But once you throw in Operative in there, everything falls apart. Half of the time you won't even realize there was someone pumping Adernaline Probes since there's no cast bar on that, and even when you realize this is happening, you still can't stop it. You can't DPS the non Op healer through Adrenaline Probe spam, and you can't DPS the Op to begin with if he's any good.

[Raansu]

Good, healers are supposed to be hard to kill. In case you haven't noticed, the trade off is that they cannot kill you.

 

If it was any other MMO I would only slightly agree, but in a game where guard and taunts exist capable of reducing damage by 80% on top of the healers CD's and heals...No just no. Healers should be easily killed solo. DPS need healers to keep them up so they can keep DPSing just as healers need tanks to keep on healing.

[AdrianDmitruk]

If it was any other MMO I would only slightly agree, but in a game where guard and taunts exist capable of reducing damage by 80% on top of the healers CD's and heals...No just no. Healers should be easily killed solo. DPS need healers to keep them up so they can keep DPSing just as healers need tanks to keep on healing.

 

Just pointing out that taunts only reduce by 30%. The other 50% still needs to be healed, as it goes straight to the tank, unless the healer wants his tank to go down and therefore lose his guard. And taunts. And any other CC the tank is putting out.

 

Not all of that 80% damage reduction stack is "free" to the healer. And taunts have a cooldown, so most of the time it's 50% with that 50% going to the tank anyway.