supersnivy Posted May 10, 2013 Share Posted May 10, 2013 I think Darth Kreia because of the fact that on wookiepeida it says that vader can be beaten by someone who is faster than him for instance galen marek and what is faster than using 3 lighsabers at the same time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted May 10, 2013 Share Posted May 10, 2013 Firstly, it's Darth Traya. Second, Vader is not slow. And if you think multiple lightsabers will do anything, then I suggest you look up the Conclave on Kessel. Simply put, Vader doesn't care how many enemies there are. He'll put them down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cool-dude Posted May 11, 2013 Share Posted May 11, 2013 (edited) Since Darth Traya seems to be pretty much modeled after Sidious, and Sidious managed to make Vader pretty much his puppet, I would say Traya would outsmart Vader and win in a fight.. Traya would know that she could not beat Vader in lightsaber combat, and I don't think she would try. In the game, you're led to believe that she fought you according to your style, as she taught you all your forms. With that being said, Traya would know how to beat Vader.Most likely, she would lure him into a vulnerable spot, and zap his mask, and make it no longer able to work.; basically suffocating him. Edited May 11, 2013 by cool-dude Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supersnivy Posted May 11, 2013 Author Share Posted May 11, 2013 she only taught you lightsaber forms if u chose the darkside options to kill the masters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyKulvax Posted May 11, 2013 Share Posted May 11, 2013 she only taught you lightsaber forms if u chose the darkside options to kill the masters False she taught you dark side techniques based on Drain Force, the Jedi Masters taught you techniques regardless of if they actively taught you or you learnt via watching their movements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfninjajedi Posted May 11, 2013 Share Posted May 11, 2013 (edited) Since Darth Traya seems to be pretty much modeled after Sidious, and Sidious managed to make Vader pretty much his puppet, I would say Traya would outsmart Vader and win in a fight.. Traya would know that she could not beat Vader in lightsaber combat, and I don't think she would try. In the game, you're led to believe that she fought you according to your style, as she taught you all your forms. With that being said, Traya would know how to beat Vader.Most likely, she would lure him into a vulnerable spot, and zap his mask, and make it no longer able to work.; basically suffocating him. She would know how to beat him huh?...Because they have met before, and Vader is a complete moron right?.... Edited May 11, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BradTheImpaler Posted May 11, 2013 Share Posted May 11, 2013 Hmm, my first instinct was "Vader", but... Perhaps in this contest, though, as the Handmaiden put it, "Manipulation is Kreia's strength, not battle." Seriously, Vader already had a warped psyche to begin with. After five minutes of talking with Darth Traya and her probing his mind, he'd probably off himself or end up joining her. At the very least, she could pull off what Obi-Wan did by frustrating him and wearing him down to the point where he does something reckless and leaves himself open. In fact one of the lightsaber forms she knew was Soresu---Kenobi's form. Top that off with the Shatterpoint ability that gave Mace Windu an edge against Sidious. Is Vader stupid? No. Arrogant and easily roused? Yes. It would be a close contest, but I think the psychological more than the physical aspect would give her the edge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfninjajedi Posted May 11, 2013 Share Posted May 11, 2013 (edited) Hmm, my first instinct was "Vader", but... Perhaps in this contest, though, as the Handmaiden put it, "Manipulation is Kreia's strength, not battle." Seriously, Vader already had a warped psyche to begin with. After five minutes of talking with Darth Traya and her probing his mind, he'd probably off himself or end up joining her. At the very least, she could pull off what Obi-Wan did by frustrating him and wearing him down to the point where he does something reckless and leaves himself open. In fact one of the lightsaber forms she knew was Soresu---Kenobi's form. Top that off with the Shatterpoint ability that gave Mace Windu an edge against Sidious. Is Vader stupid? No. Arrogant and easily roused? Yes. It would be a close contest, but I think the psychological more than the physical aspect would give her the edge. He isn't easily angered post suit, he is calm and cautious. He learned from his mistake in being arrogant and rash. The only time he flipped his lid, was when he saw a hallucination of his dead wife...which that didn't really do **** to stop him as he just destroyed everything in his path trying to find her. But its rather moot as I doubt he would fall for that again, as he finally made peace with her and was forgiven. Edited May 11, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SithKoriandr Posted May 11, 2013 Share Posted May 11, 2013 In this discussion, the answer is simple...VADER! HE IS THE SITH! Really, if you read anything that makes anyone outside of Luke, better than Vader, it's them just writing the character to be better than Vader to be better than Vader. Vader is THE SITH! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truevalon Posted May 13, 2013 Share Posted May 13, 2013 Vader lost a lot of his potential with the Force to the injuries he sustained against Kenobi and his armor did slow him down, forcing him to adapt his style. Vader, while certainly powerful, would not fare too well against other great sith lords. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfninjajedi Posted May 13, 2013 Share Posted May 13, 2013 Vader lost a lot of his potential with the Force to the injuries he sustained against Kenobi and his armor did slow him down, forcing him to adapt his style. Vader, while certainly powerful, would not fare too well against other great sith lords. He was slower...but he wasn't ridiculously slow, he was still fast. He lost some of his potential yes, but that doesn't mean he still didn't grow in power which he did and yes...he rather would do fairly well against them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meaniedevilface Posted May 15, 2013 Share Posted May 15, 2013 Since Darth Traya seems to be pretty much modeled after Sidious, and Sidious managed to make Vader pretty much his puppet, I would say Traya would outsmart Vader and win in a fight.. Traya would know that she could not beat Vader in lightsaber combat, and I don't think she would try. In the game, you're led to believe that she fought you according to your style, as she taught you all your forms. With that being said, Traya would know how to beat Vader.Most likely, she would lure him into a vulnerable spot, and zap his mask, and make it no longer able to work.; basically suffocating him. Vader is Sidious' puppet because Sidious is basically the most gifted, charismatic and manipulative man in the galaxy. Read the book on Darth Plagueis and you will see that pretty much everyone in Palpatine's arch of influence was his puppet at some point. I'm going to go with Vader in this matchup. I don't think speed is going to make a difference to him, and I don't think Vader is slow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexDougherty Posted May 15, 2013 Share Posted May 15, 2013 Hmm, my first instinct was "Vader", but... Perhaps in this contest, though, as the Handmaiden put it, "Manipulation is Kreia's strength, not battle." Seriously, Vader already had a warped psyche to begin with. After five minutes of talking with Darth Traya and her probing his mind, he'd probably off himself or end up joining her. At the very least, she could pull off what Obi-Wan did by frustrating him and wearing him down to the point where he does something reckless and leaves himself open. In fact one of the lightsaber forms she knew was Soresu---Kenobi's form. Top that off with the Shatterpoint ability that gave Mace Windu an edge against Sidious. Is Vader stupid? No. Arrogant and easily roused? Yes. It would be a close contest, but I think the psychological more than the physical aspect would give her the edge. I don't think so, firstly why would Vader Talk to Kreia, as far as he's concerned she's just another Jedi (he wouldn't consider her Sith), he would just cut her to pieces or force choke her. I don't think she would last long enough to wear him down, he was very skillful with a lightsaber, she wasn't unskilled but was never in his league. Even if she could get him to converse with her Sidious has brainwashed him, this would make him almost immune to her arguements, since he considers Sidious to be the Republic's/Empire's best hope for peace. In fact Kreia's only hope would be to avoid him, which she would do, and train up some Sith/Jedi to confront him at a later date. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BradTheImpaler Posted May 15, 2013 Share Posted May 15, 2013 I don't think so, firstly why would Vader Talk to Kreia, as far as he's concerned she's just another Jedi (he wouldn't consider her Sith), he would just cut her to pieces or force choke her. I don't think she would last long enough to wear him down, he was very skillful with a lightsaber, she wasn't unskilled but was never in his league. Even if she could get him to converse with her Sidious has brainwashed him, this would make him almost immune to her arguements, since he considers Sidious to be the Republic's/Empire's best hope for peace. In fact Kreia's only hope would be to avoid him, which she would do, and train up some Sith/Jedi to confront him at a later date. Why wouldn't they talk? The whole duel is hypothetical anyway, and of course Vader would recognize her as more than just another "Jedi". Where did I say Vader wasn't skilled with a lightsaber? Doesn't address my point at all. I don't think you understand just how psychologically traumatized Vader is. Hell, even Captain Typho got under his skin, never mind someone as skilled at Force-driven manipulation as Darth Traya. Someone that fragile would be good prey for Darth Traya. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaedusz Posted May 15, 2013 Share Posted May 15, 2013 (edited) It's Darth Traya ,not Darth Kreia. Traya is not only more powerful,insanely more so than Vader,but she is also more evil and smarter than him.She is pure 100% sith.She is a Palpatine material,with the added bonus of long forgotten and forbidden by the time of the movies force techniques like Force Drain while Vader is a cyborg with a lightsaber and some leftover force potential. She can either kill him or incapacitate him with some force power,or she will just consume him,the way she did with the 3 masters in the restored jedi enclave in kotor 2. But to be honest,she will probably just manipulate him to kill himself and end his misery. Edited May 15, 2013 by Kaedusz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexDougherty Posted May 16, 2013 Share Posted May 16, 2013 Why wouldn't they talk? The whole duel is hypothetical anyway, and of course Vader would recognize her as more than just another "Jedi". Where did I say Vader wasn't skilled with a lightsaber? Doesn't address my point at all. I don't think you understand just how psychologically traumatized Vader is. Hell, even Captain Typho got under his skin, never mind someone as skilled at Force-driven manipulation as Darth Traya. Someone that fragile would be good prey for Darth Traya. They wouldn't talk because Vader is so traumatised that he just wouldn't listen, he might sense she is more than a Jedi but just wouldn't care. No, you didn't say Vader wasn't skilled with a lightsaber, but I feel the difference in their skill levels is such that she wouldn't last long enough to wear him down, as you suggested. Yes I do understand how traumatised he is, but I also understand how skillfully Palpatine has preconditioned him, she might begin to unsettle him, but his conditioning would mean this just iritates him even more, which is a bad idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfninjajedi Posted May 16, 2013 Share Posted May 16, 2013 (edited) They wouldn't talk because Vader is so traumatised that he just wouldn't listen, he might sense she is more than a Jedi but just wouldn't care. No, you didn't say Vader wasn't skilled with a lightsaber, but I feel the difference in their skill levels is such that she wouldn't last long enough to wear him down, as you suggested. Yes I do understand how traumatised he is, but I also understand how skillfully Palpatine has preconditioned him, she might begin to unsettle him, but his conditioning would mean this just iritates him even more, which is a bad idea. It would be wise to not to try and piss Vader off...cause that happened before, and he just destroyed everything in his path. Ok everything might be a bit exaggeration, but he was tearing through **** and did not give two ****s about anything. But then that was only cause of a hallucination under some circumstances, that were resolved in the end anyway...so I don't think anything would piss Vader off more then that and seeing as it wouldn't happen again...no pissy Vader. Force Drain while Vader is a cyborg with a lightsaber and some leftover force potential. She can either kill him or incapacitate him with some force power,or she will just consume him,the way she did with the 3 masters in the restored jedi enclave in kotor 2. He is immune to Force Drain, thanks to Qel-Droma. Edited May 16, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BradTheImpaler Posted May 19, 2013 Share Posted May 19, 2013 (edited) They wouldn't talk because Vader is so traumatised that he just wouldn't listen, he might sense she is more than a Jedi but just wouldn't care. Just plain wrong. Name two lightsaber duels Vader was in that involved no dialogue whatsoever. Even if you can---an unexplained Force user appearing that he didn't recognize? Of course they will talk. No, you didn't say Vader wasn't skilled with a lightsaber, but I feel the difference in their skill levels is such that she wouldn't last long enough to wear him down, as you suggested. Again, wrong. It's nothing to do with being much more skilled. If anything she's more skilled than Obi-Wan and that tactic worked for him on Mustafar. Yes I do understand how traumatised he is, but I also understand how skillfully Palpatine has preconditioned him, she might begin to unsettle him, but his conditioning would mean this just iritates him even more, which is a bad idea. I don't know what you're trying to say here. Palpatine manipulated him, so Darth Traya can't? This makes no sense at all. If ANYBODY can manipulate him aside from Palpatine, it's Darth Traya---and his loyalty to Palpatine once he turned was always begrudging at best. "Your spirit, as diseased as it is, refuses to allow you to give up, no matter what threats you face... and whatever wreckage you leave behind you."---This could very easily be said about Vader. Edited May 19, 2013 by BradTheImpaler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvanSnowWolf Posted May 19, 2013 Share Posted May 19, 2013 Vader wins. And he wins because the other character is nothing more than one of MANY characters under the KOTOR banner that is written stupidly overpowered due to writer fiat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexDougherty Posted May 19, 2013 Share Posted May 19, 2013 (edited) I don't know what you're trying to say here. Palpatine manipulated him, so Darth Traya can't? This makes no sense at all. If ANYBODY can manipulate him aside from Palpatine, it's Darth Traya---and his loyalty to Palpatine once he turned was always begrudging at best. "Your spirit, as diseased as it is, refuses to allow you to give up, no matter what threats you face... and whatever wreckage you leave behind you."---This could very easily be said about Vader. Palpatine did far more than merely manipulate Vader, of several years he set up layers of conditioning. He explained points of view and got Anakin(he wasn't Vader yet) to believe in them, this sounds overly simple but conditioning usually is. With each layer of this conditioning he move Anakin away from a balanced viewpoint, and overlay a distorted morality. To undo this would take just as long, and would have to come from someone he trusted without question (as he did Palpatine at the time), problematic since anything that disagreed with Palpatine would probably destroy any trust and get that person interogated (and killed). Yes he later saw that he had been duped, and that Palpatine was a liar, but he had been so successfully removed from reasonable philosophy and morality that it was irrelevant. This is what Kreia/Darth Traya would be up against, furthermore since he knew he had been manipulated he had his guards up against it, even if said manipulation would correct his worldview. If this sounds fanciful (which to be honest it does), then I can honestly recommend you read up on conditioning, starting with Pavlov, who's techniques were just as bizarre and fanciful. Edited May 19, 2013 by AlexDougherty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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