sneak attack on nodes

[Astarica]

I see this in a lot of games, where a guy goes to 'distract' the opponent's node at the start of the game, which usually means 'commit suicide'. I'm not talking about a case where a guy legitmately had a chance to cap the node but failed. It's more like "I found there are 3 guys at their node but I kept them busy for 10 seconds!" I don't exactly know why the enemy side had 3 guys at their node, but them tripping over your corpse is not really a distraction. If your plan is to just die, come and die in the main fight where if they killed you, at least they're not killing someone else. Even 1on2 is very improbable that you'll win at all, and as long as your side has at least 1 defender on its own node, you didn't gain any strategic advantage. That is, my side would have 1 defender, 1 sneak attacker, and 6 guys somewhere else. The defending side would have 2 guys defending and 6 guys somewhere else. All you accomplish is dying for no reason and this generally is at least a small advantage for the opposing team.

 

This appears to be most popular in Hypergates, but certainly can be observed in any node-based maps. As a class (Tanksin) that's almost stuck with guard duty, I really do hope someone comes to 'distract' me because otherwise I'll be watching the grass grow instead.

[maverickmatt]

We call those guys Warzone Heroes. I could be off a bit, but of Pot5 I see this happen more M-F between about 3 and 10, and all weekend.......

[Zunayson]

We call those guys Warzone Heroes. I could be off a bit, but of Pot5 I see this happen more M-F between about 3 and 10, and all weekend.......

 

These warzone heroes, if chained, can lead to a win, 'specially in hypergates where you need to cap.

 

10 seconds is certainly useful, especially near that end when you just turned around and win 0-10 in civil war.

 

Just because you don't know the rush is coming doesn't mean you won't need it later. Be prepared.

 

It's not like those warzone heroes are going to be any useful to mid?

[Polymerize]

This clearly depends on the situation at hand but if you see someone distracting more than one person at a time; regardless of where they are at on the map, they are 100% not serving your team a disadvantage. It is not necessarily always an advantage, but it is definitely not a disadvantage.

 

I take this stance from a perspective that the guy on your team is not running TOWARDS the 2 enemies; that he had an initial confrontation with just 1 enemy and another enemy came to help. If your teammate is spawning at Civil War and is running towards Grass Node when there are 2 defenders there then yes, he is doing your team a disservice. Only thing he should be concerned about those defenders is if they are rotating over to Mid then he should confront them and stall them from entering Mid. Otherwise he should yes, run to mid and contribute to your team outnumbering theirs 7 to 6.

 

I don't speak about tactics and strategy for Advanced Hypergates that map has no clear cut repercussions everything is up in the air and doing X-Y-Z never has results A-B-C so I do not like that map lol. Sending a teammate to stall a pylon cap is heavily dependent on the situation and is ever debatable it is a huge grey area because you could say oh wow he died and fed them a kill but at the same time an effect of that could possibly be that your team outnumbered the other team at mid for an extended period of time which led to MORE kills for your team at mid and also Orb caps.

 

Nothing is black and white yet most people think everything is.

Edited May 7, 2013 by Polymerize

[Resiel]

If you can keep 3 guys occupied with 1 guy even for 10 seconds, you did a kick *** job and considering how many people cant help but stick around till they get their kill sending 1 at 3 or 4 is very effective at letting your team outnumber them at the node you actually want....

[Polymerize]

If you can keep 3 guys occupied with 1 guy even for 10 seconds, you did a kick *** job and considering how many people cant help but stick around till they get their kill sending 1 at 3 or 4 is very effective at letting your team outnumber them at the node you actually want....

 

Logic, ftw.

[maverickmatt]

Planning it is fine, and I agree it works a sizeable chunk of the time. I think the OP was referencing those times when you see that one guy running across the map to their natural, clearly getting outclassed and beaten, and trying again. By that time they are on to the scheme, and so maybe it is best to belay that, Good luck convincing Johnny Warzone that his services are needed elsewhere, though.

[Polymerize]

Planning it is fine, and I agree it works a sizeable chunk of the time. I think the OP was referencing those times when you see that one guy running across the map to their natural, clearly getting outclassed and beaten, and trying again. By that time they are on to the scheme, and so maybe it is best to belay that, Good luck convincing Johnny Warzone that his services are needed elsewhere, though.

 

The situation you speak of is rampant in war zones yes; but judging from his description this is not what he is referencing.

[entropicdecay]

I was in a Civil War where the middle node was never capped due to healer blobbing and we won 20-0 due to a friendly delaying their side cap for 15 seconds.

[Yeochins]

Depends on the map and the situation.

 

In ACW a 2 second delay is a win in stalemated games. Although many PUG matches do not stalemate like RWZ matches do, in the ones you do you will realize that they're actions let you win through stalemate. Also if they manage to keep 3 people distracted for 10 seconds, its another 10 seconds to travel back to the main objective. The whole time you have a 6 vs 5 advantage.

[Astarica]

If your 1 guy can 'delay' 3 guys for 10 seconds the reverse is also possible. There's no reason to assume your side is the only side doing this and at best it's an even trade.

 

I realize sometimes you got to attack aggressively but I'm talking about guys who literally have no chance of winning and just keeps on run up and die. Tripping over your corpse is not delay. Usually you'll see this guy killed while the enemy is making a straight line and simply using their best instant attack as they ran past the lone attacker.

 

And no you did NOT keep 3 guys occupied if they sent 3 guys to their natural for whatever reason. Those guys are supposed to deal with any intruders and you just walked into a trap. The best thing to do is not attack their natural if you know for sure 3 guys are already there, because you'd have a huge advantage in another battlefield elsewhere (7v5). Even in the heal strong environment, 7v5 is usually enough to believe you can overpower the enemy side elsewhere. No you won't always know how many people they sent to their natural, but if you see 3 of them and 1 of you, you really should turn back, especially for a map like Hypergates while dying matters a lot.

[Astarica]

Depends on the map and the situation.

 

In ACW a 2 second delay is a win in stalemated games. Although many PUG matches do not stalemate like RWZ matches do, in the ones you do you will realize that they're actions let you win through stalemate. Also if they manage to keep 3 people distracted for 10 seconds, its another 10 seconds to travel back to the main objective. The whole time you have a 6 vs 5 advantage.

 

Like I said, if you can delay them they can also delay you.

 

An effective delaying plan usually involves a stealth capable class, who can keep 3 people busy for a very long time and have a high probability of escaping alive. That is a good playing. Most 'delay' plans I see involve a guy running up to 3 guys, pop all his CDs, die, and say 'but I delayed those guys how comes you guys didn't win?'. No you just ran up and died. That's not delaying.

[Yeochins]

Like I said, if you can delay them they can also delay you.

 

An effective delaying plan usually involves a stealth capable class, who can keep 3 people busy for a very long time and have a high probability of escaping alive. That is a good playing. Most 'delay' plans I see involve a guy running up to 3 guys, pop all his CDs, die, and say 'but I delayed those guys how comes you guys didn't win?'. No you just ran up and died. That's not delaying.

 

I don't think you fully understand.

 

A 2-second delay by any class is valuable if the game stalemates. It doesn't even have to be stealth anymore:

 

• Marauders have a 10 second cloak, 5 second invincibility, 6 second AOE soft CC, 2 defensive cooldowns that can easily let them take on a team of 4 for a very long time.
  
• Lightning DPS Sorcerers - 10 second Invincibility, 2 second bubble stun, 2 second root that they can use to LOS people
  
• Juggernaughts - Force push, defensive cooldowns, Unchanneled choke (Vengence)
  
• Snipers - Orbital Strike the node, drop a plasma probe before you die, hunker down on the turret and knock people back for a ridiculous amount of time with roots
  
• Powertech - LOS, Carbonize, Pull, thermal detonator (Pyro), explosive dart
  

 

Any class can stall for the amount of time needed to give your team a distinct advantage. It all depends on player skill. The people who have played classes where kiting is required are often better at stalling at these objectives.

Edited May 7, 2013 by Yeochins

[Resiel]

If your 1 guy can 'delay' 3 guys for 10 seconds the reverse is also possible. There's no reason to assume your side is the only side doing this and at best it's an even trade.

 

I realize sometimes you got to attack aggressively but I'm talking about guys who literally have no chance of winning and just keeps on run up and die. Tripping over your corpse is not delay. Usually you'll see this guy killed while the enemy is making a straight line and simply using their best instant attack as they ran past the lone attacker.

 

And no you did NOT keep 3 guys occupied if they sent 3 guys to their natural for whatever reason. Those guys are supposed to deal with any intruders and you just walked into a trap. The best thing to do is not attack their natural if you know for sure 3 guys are already there, because you'd have a huge advantage in another battlefield elsewhere (7v5). Even in the heal strong environment, 7v5 is usually enough to believe you can overpower the enemy side elsewhere. No you won't always know how many people they sent to their natural, but if you see 3 of them and 1 of you, you really should turn back, especially for a map like Hypergates while dying matters a lot.

 

 

Any decent team wont have 3 guys just sitting there twiddling their thumbs defending something that isnt being attacked, even bad teams because people get bored and run off and hate defending in the first place.

 

Sending even a lone suicider somewhere A)keeps the other team honest and B)can attract other defenders when they stupidly call out "1" and 3 or 4 rush off to 'help'.

[Polymerize]

I don't think you fully understand.

 

Yep he certainly does not. Good post.

[stupidsyrup]

A lot of times if I'm stealth guarding with another guy at CW or I prefer to do this at NC, I will stealth across the plain to west/east and pick on the dude there. If there's two I'll rile them up good. What a lot of times ends up happening, especially with one, is that they call inc and back up leaves mid just for me (always call incs no matter how many) and thus it's 6 on 4-5 at mid. They'll kill me sure but if I distract them enough to grab the node it's worth it.

[dufox]

I see this in a lot of games, where a guy goes to 'distract' the opponent's node at the start of the game, which usually means 'commit suicide'. I'm not talking about a case where a guy legitmately had a chance to cap the node but failed. It's more like "I found there are 3 guys at their node but I kept them busy for 10 seconds!" I don't exactly know why the enemy side had 3 guys at their node, but them tripping over your corpse is not really a distraction. If your plan is to just die, come and die in the main fight where if they killed you, at least they're not killing someone else. Even 1on2 is very improbable that you'll win at all, and as long as your side has at least 1 defender on its own node, you didn't gain any strategic advantage. That is, my side would have 1 defender, 1 sneak attacker, and 6 guys somewhere else. The defending side would have 2 guys defending and 6 guys somewhere else. All you accomplish is dying for no reason and this generally is at least a small advantage for the opposing team.

 

This appears to be most popular in Hypergates, but certainly can be observed in any node-based maps. As a class (Tanksin) that's almost stuck with guard duty, I really do hope someone comes to 'distract' me because otherwise I'll be watching the grass grow instead.

 

as a shadow in cival war i can destract 2 people for a minute easy.

3 people 45 seconds

4 people 30

 

as a guardian i would just go there and die. so yes there is the occasional reason to ***** if someone does it.

 

but if you i distract 2 people for a minute, the enemy who died at mid say why isnt our node capped yet and come help which guarantees we get mid.

 

if your gonna make a topic make it about the ******* who follows the person going to distract.

[Caeliux]

I am so pro at ninja capps, I can't count the games I have won and hurt the feelings of kids in Hypergate and Void. Edited May 7, 2013 by Caeliux

[stupidsyrup]

I am so pro at ninja capps, I can't count the games I have won and hurt the feelings of kids in Hypergate and Void.

 

Oh god I know! Voidstar is my favorite on my stealths. You pick a side that has very little defenders, one or two of your men follow you and the defenders fight them 20 meters from the door while you take the long way around and plant it. Best moments

[Banderal]

Oh god I know! Voidstar is my favorite on my stealths. You pick a side that has very little defenders, one or two of your men follow you and the defenders fight them 20 meters from the door while you take the long way around and plant it. Best moments

 

You know (well, of course you don't), in a CW I had some guy rant at me for NOT doing that. He was fighting 1v1 about mid way between our node and mid. I was watching from the node, where I stayed stealthed and, you know, *watching the node*... he lost, then ranted at me for not coming out to help him. But no way man, I've done my one time of "I'll just go kill this guy over here real quick, there's NO WAY they could cap before I get back". One time was enough, thank you.

 

Also, in VS, although obviously it's not guaranteed, I've had good luck, right at the start, with stealthing up to the door along with the main attack (vs. how it's usually done where stealths go to the other side). But I don't come out of stealth right away. Instead, I wait about 10 seconds for the fight to get started. Then unstealth and cap. I think people watch for a stealth coming out right at the beginning and then when they don't see it, they ignore the door for a while.

[JouerTue]

useless plays are useless,

 

but when unstealthed i watch if one of our ninja is going to their node, wait for him to reach the objective and then i leave mid or the spawn..skirmishing the defenders and he often can cap easily..following him closely is as useless as don't having him in stealth..the objective is delaying the eventual defender call..

[AlrikFassbauer]

Personally, I rather tend to call the persons, which the original poster meant, "Lemmings".

[MusicRider]

Haven't read the rest of the posts other than the OP's one. In brief, in CW delaying the away-node from being capped is a must, especially if there are two good teams fighting (as in ranked games for example) as mid can often result in a stalemate and hence the winner is determined by who capped first; so that death is actually the winning move. NC and AH have their own strategies as well. Edited May 7, 2013 by MusicRider

[Cole-clark]

I was in a Civil War where the middle node was never capped due to healer blobbing and we won 20-0 due to a friendly delaying their side cap for 15 seconds.

 

I might have been in that one lol.

 

Also, when you have a tank guarding a turret in the civil war, and a "war zone hero" taunts him to come off the turret so a stealther can cap? Now... I have to say that this is a successful tactic with a high success rate.

[Joesixxpack]

All about situational context, including awareness, and how bright or dumb your team and their team members are.