Time to settle this once and for all

[skarlson]

You know; I thought of this thread last night during a match. We were ahead most of the time except when the pulse went off. We had a lot of our side standing outside and not going inside when the warning comes then they all die. It was a close match so every time they did that pubs would go ahead. They eventually won because of it.

[Kyuuu]

1 person guarding is how stuff gets ninjed any one that says 1 person guarding is fine is stupid.

[LanceCorporalDan]

My opinion?

 

For PuG games

1 guard is fine, as soon as they see people coming call an inc then stay alive as long as possible!!! Too many solo guards try to fight everyone off, don't... Delay the cap for help to arrive.

 

Now with that said, I know that it's hard to defend against two stealthers but there is no "perfect" way to do it in my opinion.

 

 

But you can have two guarding an off node and have the second guard rotate to mid when needed. Mid defenders need to realize when to call for help early so they can give the rotating defender time to arrive.

 

Just my /2cents

[Maxtofunator]

I would like to agree that having one guarding a node, except for when that is your only node, is a poor choice in any REAL match. I can not count the amount of times I have been chain stunned JUST right in order to stop me from preventing a ninja cap by 2 people, and nobody came to help in time. I have also seen plenty of times where I have come up on my scoundrel, bursted down the defender so fast, and capped the turret that nobody could show up in time, but if I am trying to ninja a turret and I see 2 defenders, i back off unless I have another stealth with me.

[stupidsyrup]

Seems ridiculous to me that anyone can assume solo guarding, even for a well geared tank, is good strategy. 2 non-stupidly played anything are likely to be able to get that solo guarder far enough away from a node to cap it. 3 would make it downright trivial.

 

Of course, the guarder can get lucky. But to count on it? Lunacy.

 

Leave a tank and a haeler on your 'gotta keep it' node. Let the other 6 players wreak havoc on the other team, and be fluid on where to go - 6 should be able to take out 2 guarders before they know it. If you spot a node with 2 guards - BUG OUT AND GET TO THAT NODE! If all the defenders kite with you to the new node, SEND BACK A STEALTHER TO CAP THE UNGUARDED NODE!

 

'Be like the Water.' - Bruce Lee.

'Hit 'em where they Ain't' - me.

 

You my friend, just took every word out of my mouth. +1000 cookies for you

[dcgregorya]

I'm tired of going into WZ's with people who know no strategy, but THINK they know strategy. I don't mind solo guarding so much as my Tank or as my Scoundrel, when I can stealth or hold my own, but as my level 12 Sniper you tell me that we don't need 2 to guard, that's where I draw the line. You want a level 12 glass cannon to solo guard??? I know exceptions with needing 7 at Mid to overpower them but when you have someone good guarding. What if you get a smart Operative/Scoundrel? He sleep darts you and starts grabbing the node, you break the CC and he Flash Bombs you (I know to wait through the Dart) and grabs it.

 

So, my question, do you think it's better to have 2 guarding or 1 guarding?

 

I will count the votes (unless I get as many replies as the DPS Mercs/Commandos thread lol) and report back.

 

I had some idiot ***** at me for having 2 at Snow and 6 at Mid (we had mid). He said we should only have one guarding snow. In my head I'm thinking, how do you lose mid, with 6 people there, 2 of them healers? So anyway, I'm like, "Dude you don't know what you're talking about, you should not be losing mid with 6 - 2 of them healers. Learn to interrupt and pillar hump." His response? "I'm in the top rated guild on the server and my PT's got 1800 RWZ score so SFTU".

 

Welcome to SWTOR PVP.

[Princz]

no no no

 

You put 3 guys....

 

Then a bolstered 38K operative come kills them all and cap anyways

[dcgregorya]

One guarding but it should be someone who's comfortable with it.

 

I hate seeing "one inc" being called. Look, you don't freaking call out for one enemy. Don't be there if you cant beat one guy. And no, the possibility of there being another, stealthed, enemy is not an excuse. You could get jumped by three stealthers at any point in the game.

 

So you expect, in a pug, where the guy guarding might be level 30 and just there because no one else would stay, to not call inc and be able to take out anyone who might possibly come plus any stealthers with them?

 

You have no right to ever complain if people lose a node then.

 

In a PUG you always have 2 people at least if you guard two nodes. 1 person if you have only 1 node. Once you have two nodes, you should either split 4/4 or 6/2 depending on how good they are. You can't count on anyone in regs being able to solo any group of people that might possibly show up.

Edited April 25, 2013 by dcgregorya

[stupidsyrup]

no no no

 

You put 3 guys....

 

Then a bolstered 38K operative come kills them all and cap anyways

 

Lol I like this. I figure the best strategy is 2-6 then once mid is capped make it 3-5. 3 can hold off for plenty of time of they decide they want snow/grass til backup arrives.

[stupidsyrup]

 

You have no right to ever complain if people lose a node then.

 

Best. Line. Ever. I'm gonna use that next time I see something like this yelled out in a WZ.

[Tezeretz]

I vote 2 guards.

 

one can easily be pacified by stealth classes or stun DPS dead.

 

 

 

If the remaining 6 players can't capture the other objectives...there is a problem with there skill level or teamwork.

2 people protecting and calling out is the way to go.

[Tezeretz]

PS:

After reading more posts...i wanna chime in on 1 inc calling as well.

 

 

This should be a must.

 

Against a good enemy...that ONE guy coming...should be accompanied by 1 or more stealth guys.

Communication is key. plus knowing enemy whereabouts...is a bonus.

 

Call all inc....and call all clears.

Seeing a line of text doesn't hurt, it only helps. so there is no reason not to.

[DimeStax]

You only need one guarding at any given time as long as the rest of your team can rotate fast, but if they have 2 stealthers you have to be wary of getting double Sapped. Edited April 25, 2013 by DimeStax

[galadimana]

One guarding but it should be someone who's comfortable with it.

 

I hate seeing "one inc" being called. Look, you don't freaking call out for one enemy. Don't be there if you cant beat one guy. And no, the possibility of there being another, stealthed, enemy is not an excuse. You could get jumped by three stealthers at any point in the game.

 

LOL. I like this logic. Because this is what the opponent is thinking. "I'll just go solo, and waste my time and his time and get nothing done." Or you could assume you opponent is smarter than a brick.

 

To assume that it's just one incoming is the height of... something. Remember that little, "A bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush" rubric?

 

Seriously. Defense of a held asset >>> attempting to grab a potential asset. (most of the time - there are exceptions, determined by strategy.)

[galadimana]

You only need one guarding at any given time as long as the rest of your team can rotate fast, but if they have 2 stealthers you have to be wary of getting double Sapped.

 

Or they slow your guys down Just. That. Much. Or one of your team gets killed on the way. Or a teammate is stuck behind the 'in' door.

 

Or 'something unexpected' happens. Which is the **nature** of combat.

 

I repeat, defending a held asset FTW.

Recovering a lost asset that was recently held: risky and very annoying, if even possible.

[galadimana]

PS:

After reading more posts...i wanna chime in on 1 inc calling as well.

 

 

This should be a must.

 

Against a good enemy...that ONE guy coming...should be accompanied by 1 or more stealth guys.

Communication is key. plus knowing enemy whereabouts...is a bonus.

 

Call all inc....and call all clears.

Seeing a line of text doesn't hurt, it only helps. so there is no reason not to.

 

YUP. Best teams do this:

"Snow Clear."

"spot 3 guarding grass" (the one guy incoming from recent death)

"2 mid..."

"stay frosty, 3 unk"

 

(which is why mics win in pvp - not as easy to relay 'trivial' info like where enemies are accounted for.)

[Jayshames]

Can't really answer that question. I'd say 1 if they are a stealth and competent player. Though if they don't have stealth and are on an equal level of intelligence as my big toe, then at least 2.

 

There's really no point even complaining about the tier 1 PvP bracket. I was powering through my Merc for a couple days in lowbie PvP, and my god.. some of the teams you get genuinely make you want to cry.

 

Day 1 was good, I'd say I broke even on wins/losses, but day 2.. jesus. I swear I lost about 9 matches in a row, and not down to the other team being somewhat decent. I know you probably hear it a lot and I'm not being big headed, though I seriously think I was the only one on my team who has ever played PvP on any game at all. Very few people played for objectives and I even seen a couple people asking in chat how to play... I can safely say I don't think I even asked for any help when I first started playing this game, everything you need to know gets given to you.

 

Anyways, rant over.

[stupidsyrup]

Can't really answer that question. I'd say 1 if they are a stealth and competent player. Though if they don't have stealth and are on an equal level of intelligence as my big toe, then at least 2.

 

There's really no point even complaining about the tier 1 PvP bracket. I was powering through my Merc for a couple days in lowbie PvP, and my god.. some of the teams you get genuinely make you want to cry.

 

Day 1 was good, I'd say I broke even on wins/losses, but day 2.. jesus. I swear I lost about 9 matches in a row, and not down to the other team being somewhat decent. I know you probably hear it a lot and I'm not being big headed, though I seriously think I was the only one on my team who has ever played PvP on any game at all. Very few people played for objectives and I even seen a couple people asking in chat how to play... I can safely say I don't think I even asked for any help when I first started playing this game, everything you need to know gets given to you.

 

Anyways, rant over.

 

Yeah I agree about not complaining about Tier 1 PvP. But it was funny that the guy said to the man with 3 lvl 50+'s, one of which with Valor 80, that he doesn't know how to play PvP. I made this thread to 1. See if many others feel the same way, and 2. So that the next time someone says I don't know how to PvP, I will point to this thread.

[Banderal]

...and I even seen a couple people asking in chat how to play...

 

Personally, I'd give them props for asking (assuming they weren't just joking around). The game gives you a "do WZ" quest at lvl 10, and then plops you in the middle of one with just that minimal instruction screen at the start. For people used to PvE, there's no "quest" window to open up to explain things, no quest markers to point them where to go, etc. I was one of those people once upon a time (first WZ was a hectic VS, I didn't even know which way to go half the time), and thank the skies for patient people who put up with me.

 

About guarding - I do it solo on my shadow-tank. I can usually survive long enough, even if surprised by two out of stealth, for help to arrive if the team is paying attention. If the team is not paying attention, well then I doubt the extra guard is going to help in the long run anyway. But I'd *rather* have 2 if I can get it. Especially in AHG, or in any situation where we have 2 nodes.

 

And I call incs all the time. My team probably gets tired of my "info" messages sometimes. I call any and all incs with numbers (unless I panic in an AHG and they attack me out of stealth while I'm solo guarding - then it's PYLON!). I call clear. I call when there's some on "my" side, but they are stuck fighting near mid with some team mates who decided to fight off node. I call clear again if it's been a while, just to let people know I'm paying attention. I call a stealth if I detect one, even if they just mezz me and go back to skulking around. If someone else calls inc, and I'm heading there I try to type that in chat (i.e. "1 w", "omw west" - like that). I've hardly ever been in a WZ with **too much** information (I think never), so I figure it can hardly hurt to let people know what's going on. And I've never been told to shut up.

Edited April 26, 2013 by Banderal

[stupidsyrup]

 

Personally, I'd give them props for asking (assuming they weren't just joking around). The game gives you a "do WZ" quest at lvl 10, and then plops you in the middle of one with just that minimal instruction screen at the start. For people used to PvE, there's no "quest" window to open up to explain things, no quest markers to point them where to go, etc. I was one of those people once upon a time (first WZ was a hectic VS, I didn't even know which way to go half the time), and thank the skies for patient people who put up with me.

 

About guarding - I do it solo on my shadow-tank. I can usually survive long enough, even if surprised by two out of stealth, for help to arrive if the team is paying attention. If the team is not paying attention, well then I doubt the extra guard is going to help in the long run anyway. But I'd *rather* have 2 if I can get it. Especially in AHG, or in any situation where we have 2 nodes.

 

And I call incs all the time. My team probably gets tired of my "info" messages sometimes. I call any and all incs with numbers (unless I panic in an AHG and they attack me out of stealth while I'm solo guarding - then it's PYLON!). I call clear. I call when there's some on "my" side, but they are stuck fighting near mid with some team mates who decided to fight off node. I call clear again if it's been a while, just to let people know I'm paying attention. I call a stealth if I detect one, even if they just mezz me and go back to skulking around. If someone else calls inc, and I'm heading there I try to type that in chat (i.e. "1 w", "omw west" - like that). I've hardly ever been in a WZ with **too much** information (I think never), so I figure it can hardly hurt to let people know what's going on. And I've never been told to shut up.

 

POT5, can I play with you lol? I try to these things as well but it's so funny getting told to shut up. Whenever they tell me that or L2P I just type "lol" and move on.

[Aelaias]

If the other team has multiple stealth classes, you probably want more than one node guard, or a good stealth defender will do, if you have one on your team.

 

Exactly, always have to consider the class composition and quality of the opposite team. Which requires thinking... I know.

[Lelvannia]

That's quite simple really.

 

If the opposing team has middle, you've been fighting there for quite a while and are not making progress, then leave the offnode with 1 guardian. That single node definitely won't win you the battle, so if you can't cap mid with 6, you're just going to loose, period, no matter how well you guard the offnode.

 

Yes, it's a risk, but better to have 7 fighting for mid, and risk having solo guardian, because that at least gives you a CHANCE of winning. Either that one guy makes a difference and your team caps mid and it's a win, or he doesn't and you loose anyway which means you're in no worse situation than you'd be with 2 guarding. OR the offnode gets capped too if the other team is THAT much better, and at least it ends faster.

 

If your team has middle then it basically depends on the amount of stealthers they have , but in general it's better to have 2 guarding.

 

tl;dr

you own mid - guard offnode with 2, other team owns mid - guard offnode with 1.

[xOxDarkyxOx]

I'm tired of going into WZ's with people who know no strategy, but THINK they know strategy. I don't mind solo guarding so much as my Tank or as my Scoundrel, when I can stealth or hold my own, but as my level 12 Sniper you tell me that we don't need 2 to guard, that's where I draw the line. You want a level 12 glass cannon to solo guard??? I know exceptions with needing 7 at Mid to overpower them but when you have someone good guarding. What if you get a smart Operative/Scoundrel? He sleep darts you and starts grabbing the node, you break the CC and he Flash Bombs you (I know to wait through the Dart) and grabs it.

 

So, my question, do you think it's better to have 2 guarding or 1 guarding?

 

I will count the votes (unless I get as many replies as the DPS Mercs/Commandos thread lol) and report back.

 

Just a suggestion. Don't stand right next to the node. If you account for the time it takes for them to run to node, you don't have to CC break the first stun. Just wait till the stun is up then interrupt their cap. When they stun you the second time, then CC break and interrupt again.

[Frostbyt]

Two guards always!!! For civil war and NC. If you leave 2 guards its almost impossible for the other team to take the node before reinforcements come.

 

That being said if you only have one node you really can't spare two people guarding especially in civil war. You will never get a second node with two guys defending.

[stupidsyrup]

Just a suggestion. Don't stand right next to the node. If you account for the time it takes for them to run to node, you don't have to CC break the first stun. Just wait till the stun is up then interrupt their cap. When they stun you the second time, then CC break and interrupt again.

 

You read in my quote which you just quoted that I said I know to wait through the first CC, which involves staying some distance from the node?