My problem with group finder and how to fix it.

[LordArtemis]

I think they need to add two things to the system.

 

1) Choose secondary role

 

The ability to mark a secondary role you are willing to fill. This way you can match up better to available group needs in the system. This could be especially important if they ever add a dual spec option.

2) Ability to toggle a "Story Mode" item when you que.

 

This will let others know you intend to experience the full story. Using that option causes the system to try and match you to other players that have also chosen that option.

[DarthGile]

I think they need to add two things to the system.

 

1) Choose secondary role

 

The ability to mark a secondary role you are willing to fill. This way you can match up better to available group needs in the system. This could be especially important if they ever add a dual spec option.

2) Ability to toggle a "Story Mode" item when you que.

 

This will let others know you intend to experience the full story. Using that option causes the system to try and match you to other players that have also chosen that option.

 

The secondary role is added already (in a sense). If you queue for DPS and Tank and there's a pending group in the finder looking for a tank, even if there was a "secondary" option that lowered the priority for one role, the finder would still grab you and throw you in as a tank. As for dual specs.. least we have the field respec legacy perk. Sure it's not the same, but it's better than nothing.. and if you know your specs, it takes less than a few minutes to set up the spec and hotkeys. If you're the healer or tank, I'm sure the group won't mind waiting for you to respec.

 

As for the second idea. Brilliant idea. So many times have I joined a group, only to find out I was the only one there to experience the story of it. You're a level 11 character and this is your first character of the opposite faction. It's new to you... and at the first cutscene, you have two players spamming "SPACEBARRR!! CMON!!" Uhh.. sorry for wanting to experience content I'm paying $15/month for? Having this as a checkbox is a great great idea.

 

Edited April 24, 2013 by DarthGile

[LordArtemis]

The secondary role is added already (in a sense). If you queue for DPS and Tank and there's a pending group in the finder looking for a tank, even if there was a "secondary" option that lowered the priority for one role, the finder would still grab you and throw you in as a tank. As for dual specs.. least we have the field respec legacy perk. Sure it's not the same, but it's better than nothing.. and if you know your specs, it takes less than a few minutes to set up the spec and hotkeys. If you're the healer or tank, I'm sure the group won't mind waiting for you to respec.

 

As for the second idea. Brilliant idea. So many times have I joined a group, only to find out I was the only one there to experience the story of it. You're a level 11 character and this is your first character of the opposite faction. It's new to you... and at the first cutscene, you have two players spamming "SPACEBARRR!! CMON!!" Uhh.. sorry for wanting to experience content I'm paying $15/month for? Having this as a checkbox is a great great idea.

 

 

Thanks. I've been suggesting the latter for a while. This way folks that want to experience the story can do so with like minded individuals without harassment. By the same token, those that have run the FP many many times can all skip over the story content as a group. I think it would work for both sides, especially if the group finder qued based on the choice.

[Kilora]

So my suggestion is to make it so the only way players can unlock flashpoints in group finder is by running them the traditional way at least once per character. In other words, finding a group via general chat, then going down to the holoterminals in the fleets' lower decks to get the respective FP sit-reps from the faction leaders, the way we used to. And the great thing is, not only would this fix the aforementioned problems, players would also get the added benefit of racking up on the social points which are awarded for going about things in this manner.

 

Absolutely not.

 

Why? I don't want it. Only reason I need :-D

 

In all seriousness, I will ALWAYS disagree with adding "requirements" like this into the game. The only point of the requirement is to enforce your preferred playstyle on other people.

 

If you care about playing a certain way -- it is YOUR responsibility to figure out how to play that way. You can easily look up what the "order" is, and common sense would tell you that a random group finder (when queueing up for multiple options) won't guarantee it in order.

 

Ontop of that -- the majority of current players have done the FPs at least once on at least one character. I'm NOT willing to deal with that garbage on my alts. I've already done it -- the only reason for my doing FPs is for fun and gear.

 

 

TL;DR -- Disagree. You'd be forcing people with different playstyles to fall into line with your preferred playstyle.

[Kilora]

I think they need to add two things to the system.

 

1) Choose secondary role

 

The ability to mark a secondary role you are willing to fill. This way you can match up better to available group needs in the system. This could be especially important if they ever add a dual spec option.

2) Ability to toggle a "Story Mode" item when you que.

 

This will let others know you intend to experience the full story. Using that option causes the system to try and match you to other players that have also chosen that option.

 

Just wanted to say -- brilliant idea for #2! I agree with an option like that. It would be excellent -- so long as no one complained about queue times, or could somehow say "ONLY 'Story Mode' or Preference to 'Story Mode'" -- that way you won't be stuck waiting for 2 hours, only to queue again without 'Story Mode' and wait another 2 hours.

 

 

As for #1 -- you can already do this. Unless I'm misunderstanding you. . .

 

On my Sorc Healer -- I always queue as BOTH Healer and Damage. Rarely do I ever get chosen for DPS, but it has happened. Field respec is close enough to Dual Spec that I'm fine with not seeing a "dual spec" anytime soon. Once you get the hang of switching, it takes very little time.

 

Hopefully they'll see that recommendation! I'm going to quote it in a PM as well, to try and toss it at them more

[genthek]

Using Group Finder is a choice, not a necessity. Personally, i've levelled my main to lvl 21 (aprox) and have never used the finder because WoW taught me that PUGs are not fun. You can always still try to find a group manually, or follow the storyline right up to the phase entrance and then queue.

[LordArtemis]

Just wanted to say -- brilliant idea for #2! I agree with an option like that. It would be excellent -- so long as no one complained about queue times, or could somehow say "ONLY 'Story Mode' or Preference to 'Story Mode'" -- that way you won't be stuck waiting for 2 hours, only to queue again without 'Story Mode' and wait another 2 hours.

 

 

As for #1 -- you can already do this. Unless I'm misunderstanding you. . .

 

On my Sorc Healer -- I always queue as BOTH Healer and Damage. Rarely do I ever get chosen for DPS, but it has happened. Field respec is close enough to Dual Spec that I'm fine with not seeing a "dual spec" anytime soon. Once you get the hang of switching, it takes very little time.

 

Hopefully they'll see that recommendation! I'm going to quote it in a PM as well, to try and toss it at them more

 

I know you can dual choose, but I don't think (unless I am mistaken) you can set a first choice, second choice, so you can get cued for your priority but asked if you are willing to fill a secondary role when a group pops up that could use it. If you refuse, you remain in que for both with your original priority intact.

[Kilora]

I know you can dual choose, but I don't think (unless I am mistaken) you can set a first choice, second choice, so you can get cued for your priority but asked if you are willing to fill a secondary role when a group pops up that could use it. If you refuse, you remain in que for both with your original priority intact.

 

OH! I gotcha. Brain isn't quite functioning at 100% yet :-D Thank's for clarifying that.

 

 

That would be a really cool thing -- although, the other problem is, I'm not sure it would work well. On my server, Tanks are almost guaranteed an instant queue. If tanks are waiting, healers have an instant queue. DPS generally have 40+ minute wait times. I feel maybe it wouldn't be used as often? On the flip side -- I guess we may have more people queueing as a "I'll heal if absolutely necessary, but I don't like it" ?

[LordArtemis]

OH! I gotcha. Brain isn't quite functioning at 100% yet :-D Thank's for clarifying that.

 

 

That would be a really cool thing -- although, the other problem is, I'm not sure it would work well. On my server, Tanks are almost guaranteed an instant queue. If tanks are waiting, healers have an instant queue. DPS generally have 40+ minute wait times. I feel maybe it wouldn't be used as often? On the flip side -- I guess we may have more people queueing as a "I'll heal if absolutely necessary, but I don't like it" ?

 

That was my thought.

 

And if the system could be refined, it would be as follows.....

 

System attempts to fill a group with Healer, Tank, two DPS. If one of the two first roles are not available as primary choices, the system finds folks that have chosen it as a secondary option and prompts them, asking them if they would be willing to take the role to fill a group.

 

This way the system sets priority to primary choices, but will try to fill with secondaries and ASK if you are willing to fill that role. Refusal does not "move you to the back of the line", so to speak, if there would be such a thing.

[Machine-Elf]

Using Group Finder is a choice, not a necessity. Personally, i've levelled my main to lvl 21 (aprox) and have never used the finder because WoW taught me that PUGs are not fun. You can always still try to find a group manually, or follow the storyline right up to the phase entrance and then queue.

It's a choice, yes, but it's a choice that might as well be a necessity, considering the way in which the game presents it. In other words, new players will never even know that, in order to experience the game's story as it was originally intended to be presented, they must "manually" form a group and head to the mission terminals, because the game explicitly tells—not to mention rewards —them (whether it be through the tutorial, or through daily quest lines) to experience it via group finder.

Edited April 26, 2013 by Machine-Elf

[Machine-Elf]

Absolutely not.

 

Why? I don't want it. Only reason I need :-D

 

In all seriousness, I will ALWAYS disagree with adding "requirements" like this into the game. The only point of the requirement is to enforce your preferred playstyle on other people.

 

If you care about playing a certain way -- it is YOUR responsibility to figure out how to play that way. You can easily look up what the "order" is, and common sense would tell you that a random group finder (when queueing up for multiple options) won't guarantee it in order.

 

Ontop of that -- the majority of current players have done the FPs at least once on at least one character. I'm NOT willing to deal with that garbage on my alts. I've already done it -- the only reason for my doing FPs is for fun and gear.

 

 

TL;DR -- Disagree. You'd be forcing people with different playstyles to fall into line with your preferred playstyle.

I'm not forcing anyone into my preferred play-style. If anything, that's what you're doing by advancing the notion that every single new player to the game should be deprived of an experience which you, as a veteran of the game, were not, simply because it inconveniences you in the most frugal possible manner (having to group up manually once per alt).

[Machine-Elf]

While I agree that perhaps there should be more effort put into directing players towards the conversations, I strongly disagree with forcing them to do the instance without group finder the first time. Some people may not care about the conversations at all, and a certain playstyle should not be forced upon them if there is no effect on other players.

The suggestion that ensuring new players experience a story (the field in which BioWare specializes the most in, and what got them their renown and acclaim in the first place) in the way it was originally intended somehow restricts play-styles is ridiculous, and tantamount to claiming a publisher is restricting a reader's freedom to enjoy a book properly by numbering the pages in sequence.

 

And to flesh out this analogy further., what BioWare is doing at the moment—and you, supporting—is to basically rip out the pages of a book, let them fall where they may, at random, and ask the reader to place the pieces of the puzzle on his own, if he so wishes.

Edited April 26, 2013 by Machine-Elf

[Machine-Elf]

Feedback required.

[Machine-Elf]

What goes bump in the night?

[Zombietroll]

And with the advent of the group finder how are those players going to even find a group to do their initial run if everyone else is in group finder. That's like trying to make it a law that virgins can only have sex with virgins. Great, but where are we going to find enough virgins.

 

We are playing an MMO about Star Wars, isn't everyone here a virgin?

[Zombietroll]

I think they need to add two things to the system.

 

2) Ability to toggle a "Story Mode" item when you que.

 

This will let others know you intend to experience the full story. Using that option causes the system to try and match you to other players that have also chosen that option.

 

This would be great. I also think the que time for a non-tank wanting to see the whole story would be around two hours or more.

[Briljin]

If you want to take the extra time to enjoy the story line and various cut scenes, be my guest but making it required for everyone is not a decision I think you should be making.

[Machine-Elf]

If you want to take the extra time to enjoy the story line and various cut scenes, be my guest but making it required for everyone is not a decision I think you should be making.

It would only be the one time per character.

[Eutoxis]

If you want to take the extra time to enjoy the story line and various cut scenes, be my guest but making it required for everyone is not a decision I think you should be making.

 

ding ding ding ding, give this man a kewpie doll.

 

No, OP, nobody but you thinks forcing everyone to play your way, and never mind your "it's only once," is a good idea.

 

If you want to slowly piece your way through every story, savoring every moment of voice acting, then do so. I hope you have a guild, because I rather suspect you're going to be votekicked VERY often otherwise. Perhaps your guild will put up with your demands that they experience the One True Path. I know I wouldn't, and I doubt many others will, either.

[LordArtemis]

Well, I reiterate my prior suggestion...

 

Ability to toggle a "Story Mode" item when you que.

 

This will let others know you intend to experience the full story. Using that option causes the system to try and match you to other players that have also chosen that option.

 

I drop the first suggestion I had of dual roles since something similar already exists and instead add this....

 

Dual spec option

 

The ability to change your spec on the fly to one of two saved specs, including keybinds/ability locations/hotbar setups. It would naturally have a cooldown, and perhaps could be restricted to group finder use only if needed.

 

System bolster for needed classes

 

The system would detect that needed classes are not qued and set a bolster for that class needed. Say 10 percent bolster to health and healing power for healers, damage mitigation and increased agro for tanks. This bolster would be clearly announced in the tool for a certain period of time.

[Xivez]

Or just put the questgiver inside the FP as u enter.

 

Yes it ****s up the story on how you got there...you ported by a magical beam from wherever you where standing.

[LordArtemis]

The other thing I would do is to put a terminal by the Starport on every single planet that would offer the Heroics available on that planet, but would only be accessible once you have finished your storyline there or finished the bonus missions.

 

This would make it MUCH MUCH easier to grab all of the heroics on a certain planet and form a group to run them.

 

Finally I would offer one item, something I have suggested before as a legacy unlock..

 

Group Summon - learn the ability to summon a group member to your position if you are the group leader. This ability can only be used in the particular area and instance you are located, outside of combat. It can not be used to transport group members from one planet to another or from a station to other planets. Standard QT cooldowns apply.

[Machine-Elf]

I like the "story mode" suggestion. The only problema is that it would lengthen queue times considerably. Edited May 10, 2013 by Machine-Elf

[DarthTHC]

We don't need any of those fancy things. We need people who queue for flashpoints to not act like fools.

 

People should queue as the role(s) for which they are properly geared and specced and know how to play. Once you get in, everyone should behave well, like they're gaming with their good friends.

 

It was amazing today. I popped into a flashpoint as a DPS (I usually queue as a tank but I'm learning the boss fights, so DPS) and I got into a group with 3 guildmates. They were good and it was a great run overall.

 

They actually thanked me at the end for not being an idiot DPS. I mean, really, that's the expectation out there. It's pathetic.

 

THAT IS WHAT NEEDS TO BE FIXED! It's a PEOPLE problem, not a SOFTWARE problem.

[Machine-Elf]

We don't need any of those fancy things. We need people who queue for flashpoints to not act like fools.

 

People should queue as the role(s) for which they are properly geared and specced and know how to play. Once you get in, everyone should behave well, like they're gaming with their good friends.

 

It was amazing today. I popped into a flashpoint as a DPS (I usually queue as a tank but I'm learning the boss fights, so DPS) and I got into a group with 3 guildmates. They were good and it was a great run overall.

 

They actually thanked me at the end for not being an idiot DPS. I mean, really, that's the expectation out there. It's pathetic.

 

THAT IS WHAT NEEDS TO BE FIXED! It's a PEOPLE problem, not a SOFTWARE problem.

I think you missed the point of the thread.