RotHC // 2.0 : Healing - It's ridiculous.

[Astarica]

You don't need coordination to beat heavy healers in a PUG. You only have to know that if they got at least 3 healers they're not killing anybody (unless you have no healers, which is impossible to balance). You don't have to kill their healers fast, because they can't kill your guys AT ALL. Take a map like Alderaan. A team with 3+ healers will likely do something like 4/0/4. Once they have 2 turrets you lose the game for sure. Sounds horrible? No because it's very possible they never get two turrest. Say you open up 1/5/2 or similar. Your 2 guys hitting their node can stall against their 4, because those guys have no firepower. The guy doing 1 on 4 needs some help, but hopefully some of your 5 guys in the middle realize that when they ran to middle and see no opposition. Of course the average PUG just celebrates on their incredible awesomeness when you send 5 guys to middle and see no enemy instead of thinking 'they're probably hitting a different spot'. I can fight 1 on 3 against heavy healer team all day because usually those 3 guys would be healer + tank + dps which is basically like fighting 1 DPS in terms of survivality. Sure I won't come close to killing any of them but they'd need a long time to kill me too.

[Xsorus]

The whining in this thread about Healers is one of the reasons I look down on most MMO players now a days...Healers can be killed, Hell baddies were whining about Healers before 2.0 saying they were impossible to kill yet when i played Pyrotech I was able to instantly burst down some healers....and still the whining still happens.

 

Newsflash for everyone out there, If you think 1 DPS should be able to kill 1 Healer in a 1v1, You should leave this thread...You're not reasonable and your ability to determine balance in a game is pisspoor beyond belief.

 

2 DPS right now can lockdown a Healer so that he's forced to Heal himself and kite at the same time, If he doesn't do the kiting part, He will die... Horribly I might add.

 

2 DPS should not be able to take down a Healer/Tank Duo at all...or easily...

 

Most of the time, You killing a Healer is not actually needed...DPS in this game need to realize this. If you are able to keep him from Healing others, you've accomplished the same thing as actually killing the Healer. If you're forcing him to kite around and heal himself, He's not healing anyone else..Meaning those people who aren't being healed can be bursted down and killed.

 

Finally, you fools would of crapped yourself dealing with something like a Warrior Priest or DoK in Warhammer which had Tanks that were a 1000x harder to kill then tanks in this game and could do the same thing Tanks do in this game.

[Arkerus]

The whining in this thread about Healers is one of the reasons I look down on most MMO players now a days...Healers can be killed, Hell baddies were whining about Healers before 2.0 saying they were impossible to kill yet when i played Pyrotech I was able to instantly burst down some healers....and still the whining still happens.

 

Newsflash for everyone out there, If you think 1 DPS should be able to kill 1 Healer in a 1v1, You should leave this thread...You're not reasonable and your ability to determine balance in a game is pisspoor beyond belief.

 

2 DPS right now can lockdown a Healer so that he's forced to Heal himself and kite at the same time, If he doesn't do the kiting part, He will die... Horribly I might add.

 

2 DPS should not be able to take down a Healer/Tank Duo at all...or easily...

 

Most of the time, You killing a Healer is not actually needed...DPS in this game need to realize this. If you are able to keep him from Healing others, you've accomplished the same thing as actually killing the Healer. If you're forcing him to kite around and heal himself, He's not healing anyone else..Meaning those people who aren't being healed can be bursted down and killed.

 

Finally, you fools would of crapped yourself dealing with something like a Warrior Priest or DoK in Warhammer which had Tanks that were a 1000x harder to kill then tanks in this game and could do the same thing Tanks do in this game.

 

News flash.

 

If a DPS is chasing a healer, he's not killing other DPS or planting bombs.

 

About your tank comment, I'm for tank being hard to kill as they should be. Healers however should NOT be better tanks than actual tank classes.

 

If a healer doesn't die to DPS (perhaps 2) then brining 2 or 3 can effectively keep an entire team alive. People need to die and respawn for PvP to even work.

[Astarica]

News flash.

 

If a DPS is chasing a healer, he's not killing other DPS or planting bombs.

 

About your tank comment, I'm for tank being hard to kill as they should be. Healers however should NOT be better tanks than actual tank classes.

 

If a healer doesn't die to DPS (perhaps 2) then brining 2 or 3 can effectively keep an entire team alive. People need to die and respawn for PvP to even work.

 

The only way a healer stays alive against 2 DPS is if he's guarded. That means there are 2 guys dedicated to stopping 2 DPS. Try to tank 2 DPS without Guard as a healer and you'll die very fast.

 

By the way since healers tend to have the worst mitigation on the team, it's not like the DPS could possibly hit anyone else for more damage anyway. They're in no ways compromised by attacking healers first.

[Tycoon]

Tycoon,

 

I never dps, it makes no sense. My entire skill tree, all of my armor, all of my stats are built to be a healer. In an encounter I am never dpsing anyone down, unless someone is dumb enough to attack a position where they are outnumbered. My job is to heal dps and for dps to kill the dps who attack me.

 

So if im required to dps people down, why am I healing? I might as well just break out my dps and win most 1 on 1 battles.

 

 

 

I would be fine with you having to select roles for wzs. I actually hate having more than 3 healers (except voidstar defense), because it usually makes it hard to take a position. Now if you happen to zerg the right places and get one, sure 2 healers at each node in a 4/4 is going to be tough. But if the other team gets 2 nodes, its going to be hard to take a position.

 

Problem is this will slow down warzone ques.

 

That is fine. That is your play style and I respect that. However, the problem with your play style is you get these stalemates, and healers become more valuable then a dps or even a tank, which is occurring right now, and I know for a fact a lot of people do not enjoy it.

Edited April 25, 2013 by Tycoon

[Tycoon]

The whining in this thread about Healers is one of the reasons I look down on most MMO players now a days...Healers can be killed, Hell baddies were whining about Healers before 2.0 saying they were impossible to kill yet when i played Pyrotech I was able to instantly burst down some healers....and still the whining still happens.

 

Newsflash for everyone out there, If you think 1 DPS should be able to kill 1 Healer in a 1v1, You should leave this thread...You're not reasonable and your ability to determine balance in a game is pisspoor beyond belief.

 

2 DPS right now can lockdown a Healer so that he's forced to Heal himself and kite at the same time, If he doesn't do the kiting part, He will die... Horribly I might add.

 

2 DPS should not be able to take down a Healer/Tank Duo at all...or easily...

 

Most of the time, You killing a Healer is not actually needed...DPS in this game need to realize this. If you are able to keep him from Healing others, you've accomplished the same thing as actually killing the Healer. If you're forcing him to kite around and heal himself, He's not healing anyone else..Meaning those people who aren't being healed can be bursted down and killed.

 

Finally, you fools would of crapped yourself dealing with something like a Warrior Priest or DoK in Warhammer which had Tanks that were a 1000x harder to kill then tanks in this game and could do the same thing Tanks do in this game.

 

We are suppose to believe a someone like you, who just clearly wants to keep his god healer from being nerfed, knows anything about balance? I don't even need to provide in-game evidence to prove your are wrong. Anyone with a brain can tell how bias your post is, and therefore your credibility is non-existent.

 

I also like to point out how much of a noob you are when it comes to Warhammer. Warhammer was designed from the ground up to be a team effort, so there was a lot of rock, paper, and scissor classes. Warhammer was always suppose to be played with 4-6 other people in mind, never 1vs1 matches. For example, a WP or DoK was no match against a Witch Hunter, or Witch Elf. SWTOR, however, was designed very much like WoWs. Each class was suppose to be able to hold it's own against another. They accomplished this before 1.2, but ruined with every patch after. Warhammer Online and SWTOR are two completely different games.

Edited April 25, 2013 by Tycoon

[Slurmez]

I play a Sage healer and i have 2 insta heal casts.....

1 of them is only for me...

If you let me proc i can have an insta AOE cast (after minimum 2 long casts)

 

Now tell me what class you play and i ll tell you how many interupts you have....

 

Its one genius, the others that you will be referencing are CC, all of which fill the resolve bar, all of which only have a limited window of opportunity to work and have significant cooldowns. Even Bioware had to give up on the "cc is your interrupt" line for mercs/commandos.

 

What class do I play? All of them including a unkillable operative healer which was nearly unkillable pre 2.0 which is retired now because frankly its embarrassing and feels like punching kittens.

 

You playing a sage healer is NO surprise to anyone here.

[sirullrich]

I heal and just wondering if TTK is too short how can healers be too strong? I use to average 500-700k heals before 2.0 in bubble spec. Now I average about 800k-1mil. The old hp average was about 20k and now it is about 30k when geared. 20k/30k=67% and 500k/800k=63% The average gain is less than 5%. I think the problem with heals now is that melee dps is not that strong. I have no problems with melee, but range dps is a headache for me. Also tanks are viable again.

[Arkerus]

Lol. Just got out of a civil war where one of the healers, out of three, actually had time to global chat...

 

"Give it up you can't kill us"

 

 

Yah. Healing isn't a problem right now. Ha. Keep it up guys. Tell us its not a problem.

[Coldin]

Lol. Just got out of a civil war where one of the healers, out of three, actually had time to global chat...

 

"Give it up you can't kill us"

 

 

Yah. Healing isn't a problem right now. Ha. Keep it up guys. Tell us its not a problem.

 

 

I've been seeing that from the sorcs a lot. They toss up that bubble, then mock people as the other healer fills them up while we can't hurt him. Pretty annoying.

[Astarica]

Lol. Just got out of a civil war where one of the healers, out of three, actually had time to global chat...

 

"Give it up you can't kill us"

 

 

Yah. Healing isn't a problem right now. Ha. Keep it up guys. Tell us its not a problem.

 

I had a game where it was a standard 300-0 Alderaan where we won and we pretty much never killed their healers in the entire game and they had time to type exactly the same thing.

 

People need to realize the difference between unkillable and unwinnable. Unless your team has no healers, the so-called 'unkillable' healers work in your favor too. You just have to make sure they never take an objective, which isn't very hard when they can't kill you either. By the way, it's still easier for DPS to stop and attempt to capture an objective compared to a healer in a total stalemate. After all, if a DPS stops to cap something it's not like the healer then unleashes his own DPS to kill the DPS, but the reverse is definitely possible.

[Astarica]

I heal and just wondering if TTK is too short how can healers be too strong? I use to average 500-700k heals before 2.0 in bubble spec. Now I average about 800k-1mil. The old hp average was about 20k and now it is about 30k when geared. 20k/30k=67% and 500k/800k=63% The average gain is less than 5%. I think the problem with heals now is that melee dps is not that strong. I have no problems with melee, but range dps is a headache for me. Also tanks are viable again.

 

When you consider Sorc got Force Barrier but nobody got 'dispel invulnerability' of course healing is slightly ahead just because they've access to some new abilities that they never had while DPS did not get anything that'd counter the said new abilities. So of course the balance leans toward the healers a bit more than before, but this really only applies in the no healer versus at least 1 healer scenario. Those games are always very difficult to win, but they're harder than before now. Still, that's more like a matchmaking issue because it's hard to imagine to design a game where a team with no healers can consistently keep up with a team that has at least one.

[DroidDreamer]

I don't know the solutions but healing does seem a little overturned right now. The number of healers seems to determine the outcome of matches very often.

[LovarBoy]

2 DPS should not be able to take down a Healer/Tank Duo at all...or easily...

 

What?

 

2 DD's should not be able to take down a healer? Are you serious?

 

You can't make this calculation, because 1 Healer = 2 DD's, 2 Healers = 4 DD's, 3 Healers = 6 DD's, 4 Healers = 8 DD's.

 

Can you see the issue with that?

 

At last 2 DD's should be able to kill a healer without any higher effort. But right now, good healers can outheal ( with hit & run - especially Sorcs ) 2 DD's.

[SkinzOCAU]

NO NO NO NO NO.

 

We saw what happened the last time they hit healers with the nerf bat. DPS have ruled the roost for over a year, and finally healers can do something, and we have people crying nerf. Before we over-react, why don't we wait for people to max out 55, and see where things lie. I guarantee you that top DPS players will know how to lock down and burst down healers, with the exception of perhaps OP healers, which are seriously well resourced right now. Roll cannot be countered, not even by electronet.

 

The last time healers got the nerf, most classes didnt even know how to interrupt. My best mate played a top sentinel and didnt even know what it was. He never had issues bursting down healers.

 

And can we please, for the love of all that is good in the world, agree that Merc and Commando healers should stay exactly as they are. They have limited mobility, limited cool downs, and are easily interrupted.

 

Its one genius, the others that you will be referencing are CC, all of which fill the resolve bar, all of which only have a limited window of opportunity to work and have significant cooldowns. Even Bioware had to give up on the "cc is your interrupt" line for mercs/commandos.

 

Most DPS will interrupt the healer with their opener (leap, shoot first etc), then dps, then use their interrupt, then dps, then stun, then dps, then interrupt again, finally if they really need to, stun or push. If then can't kill them in this time, then they are at least keeping him out of the game and he isn't healing anyone else.

 

Like has already been said, DPS have been tailored to for so long, that they feel they should be able to kill any healer they focus alone. Why do you think that you should be able to kill any healer you attack in a 1v1? This is an 8v8 game. Things should be relatively even between the roles, unless you have superior skill, or they are outnumbered. A dps deals damage, a healer heals damage. When they fight, it should be a relative stalemate, but dps are so accustomed to winning that heaven forbid a healer survive a conflict.

 

I will agree though, that scoundrels and ops need some slight nerfing. Their hots ad instant heals allow them to stay up and ignore interupts. This means you have to completely burst them down during stun phases which is way too hard.

 

What?

 

2 DD's should not be able to take down a healer? Are you serious?

 

He mentioned a 'tank and healer' duo. As in a 2v2.

Edited April 26, 2013 by SkinzOCAU

[Astarica]

What?

 

2 DD's should not be able to take down a healer? Are you serious?

 

You can't make this calculation, because 1 Healer = 2 DD's, 2 Healers = 4 DD's, 3 Healers = 6 DD's, 4 Healers = 8 DD's.

 

Can you see the issue with that?

 

At last 2 DD's should be able to kill a healer without any higher effort. But right now, good healers can outheal ( with hit & run - especially Sorcs ) 2 DD's.

 

Um he said 2 DPS versus tank + healer.

 

And that's not unreasonable because if 2 DPS beats a healer + tank, why have a tank?

 

That said that scenario is basically the defender always win. If the healer side is defending they can obviously survive long enough to foil the attack. If the DPS are defending, the tank + healer duo would need so much time to kill them that their attack would also be foiled. If they fought in the middle of nowhere, the DPS won the fight before it even started because the healer/tank duo is fighting in the wrong place.

[FodderofCannon]

 

He mentioned a 'tank and healer' duo. As in a 2v2.

 

The reality is a tank and a healer can effectively hold off 4 dps for quite some time, let alone two. The tank and healer combo now with the tank buffs makes this combination far, far more effective than 2 dps, especially in uncoordinated pug environments. Add a third healer, and they can effectively hold off an entire team of dps for long enough to make a win in almost every warzone. This is simply not balanced in this environment. If this were a large scale war then maybe if would be ok, but in timed objective based warzones this is the difference between winning and losing consistently and predictably.

[LovarBoy]

He said that, I say something different.

 

Nevertheless, 1 healer + 1 tank vs 4 DD's is just too much "option" for the 2 man group.

[Ravenschild]

Why? Because you can't lock down a healer solo anymore? Get real. You can still shut down healing by focus firing. Honestly, this just sounds like a reg star frustrated that he can't burst down the one healer on the opposing team solo anymore. News flash, healers are supposed to be able to stay alive while taking damage from multiple targets. That is pretty much their job... Check out Warhammer Online if you really want to see what op healing is.

 

This just smacks of frustration without understanding the fundamentals of mmo pvp

 

Not really...when you focus fire they put up their damage shield where they take no damage and the others pound you into the ground like a nail since that shield cant be interrupted and the other healer or healers are healing that one. Trust me Ive tried using distraction and it wont activate against it . If it did that might actually help the issue. On my server (berengen or however its spelled) pub side has about 3 times the healers that imp side does at the minimum. This means almost every game since 2.0 has 2-3 healers in it that you are facing. I play both sides and started as a healer. Personally I will admit I am not very good at it which is why I dont roll up another one (before anyone tosses out the "then make one" stuff I figured Id get that out there). As for checking out WHO ...been there done that.Did you know the same people that made pvp there are the same folks here...look it up from the before launch of the game articles.

Edited April 26, 2013 by Ravenschild
broken sentence

[PerinnAybara]

While High Velocity Gas Cylinder is active, you vent [4 / 8] heat every 6 seconds.

 

2 point talent, 4th Tier.

 

Healing Scan has a [33.34 / 66.68 / 100.02]% chance to reduce the heat cost of your next Rapid Scan by 8.

 

3 point Talent, 4th Tier.

[LovarBoy]

Is that a competition?

 

Should I link a dozen of crappy PT talents in comparison to the Merc ones?

 

What has this to do with the topic?

[Never_Hesitate]

Is that a competition?

 

Should I link a dozen of crappy PT talents in comparison to the Merc ones?

 

What has this to do with the topic?

 

He posts it in every thread that is related to merc healing and gives no explanation.

[dannycarr]

Healers are not OP, just coordinate between the team and focus them and boom, dead. Healers are destroying WZ, just been in one where there were 6 of us and we didn't achieve anything.

 

Its really annoying as I am a long time healer, and now I feel that I should go DPS as there are so many bloody healers in WZ.......

 

Stick to what you were playing before and stop rolling FOTM healers.....

[Thrasymicus]

Ya... you cant just roll your face n the keyboard to kill healers anymore... Use stuns, interrupts and knockbacks. The healer will die. /close thread

[PerinnAybara]

Hey, it worked for shatter shot, and tracer missile.

 

Know what happened? They both got buffed.