Surprising finds with Jugg/Guardian DPS

[NvrShoutNvr]

"P.S. If you stopped at "....and another armor nerf after 2.0..." then you should go look at the spec again. "Hand of Darkness - Spike can now be used out of stealth mode." Pre-2.0 this also use to give a 20% increase to armor rating. I never said the assassin got a nerf, darkness got a pretty good buff actually. I have seen multiple assassins tank in 2.0 content, they take insane amounts of damage now even compared to before 2.0 content. Learn what your talking about before you comment dude."

 

 

if that was directed at me, you are sorely mistaken. I didnt say that, the person who did just happens to have the same avatar as me. And I main a Darkness Assassin, so I think I know what I'm talking about

Edited April 23, 2013 by NvrShoutNvr

[NvrShoutNvr]

Also, this thread has absolutely nothing to do with the Rage spec, I posted a parse using the Vengeance tree. If you want to complain about Rage, go to the PvP forums. I don't understand why you came to this thread to complain about a completely different spec.

[xContex]

I switched to my jugg and guess what? Scyn again, (This time Desirra and Flux were with him. We won the one before so he had to go get them.)

 

Nah. If I lose a match I don't go searching for more people. I q again. Come on now.

[NvrShoutNvr]

Nah. If I lose a match I don't go searching for more people. I q again. Come on now.

 

he's just looking for reasons to complain at this point.

[PoliteAssasin]

Urd you really need to stop it with the merc QQ. Mercs were fine before the buff, and even better off now. If you're still whining about it man then it sounds like a skill issue to me.

[NvrShoutNvr]

Urd you really need to stop it with the merc QQ. Mercs were fine before the buff, and even better off now. If you're still whining about it man then it sounds like a skill issue to me.

 

this.

[NathanielStarr]

Most of the so called best pvpers would not be caught dead bringing anything without a glowstick into a PvP match. Well maybe they'll switch off as pocket healer from one of their smasher friends if they promise to return the favor later.

 

If knights/warriors aren't any better than any other class then why are 95% of the supposed good PvP players from that class? You have maybe 5 of each from the other classes that actually stand out and then dozens of knights/warriors. It's not just a coincidence. The only thing that is starting to be comparable is assassins.

 

Snipers do good damage, but you can kill them so characters like PoliteAssassin wouldn't dare play it.

[J_Fred]

Defense made many solid points, but if the juggernaut community wants to troll him for making fun of the class that has been overpowered since 1.4, go for it.

 

lolsmashrolfstomp umadbro

 

This is just my personal opinion but I don't think any powertech dps has the right to complain about OP classes. PTs and Vans have been king of the hill for mdps since the game launched, now that they aren't on top anymore they want to complain about a class being OP

[Helmholtzz]

Guardian/Jugg DPS was good (not the best melee class but was within 10% of the top Sentinel DPS) before 2.0. Trouble is it was hard to pull that sort of numbers Same goes for commandos. You could pull 2K dps on a gunnery (Arsenal) Commando before 2.0 but it took a lot of luck. After 2.0 Guardians are around the same spot they used to be. 69 geared Sentinels and slingers can pull 2700+ while guardians can probably do 2400-2500. So things haven't changed that much.

As for PvP I think people complain about smash because they cant avoid it. All big AoE like orbital strike, Flyby or mortar volley has a big circle on the ground so you can get out of that. Smash does not give you a chance to do anything to get out the area.

And about people leaving, if you think that you will still enjoy the game if a big chunk of the player base ends up leaving then that is very good news for you. Release of Elder Scroll Online will be a big test for SWTOR. I hope the devs have enough color combination on the upcoming cartel pack speeders to keep people in the game.

[PoliteAssasin]

Most of the so called best pvpers would not be caught dead bringing anything without a glowstick into a PvP match. Well maybe they'll switch off as pocket healer from one of their smasher friends if they promise to return the favor later.

 

If knights/warriors aren't any better than any other class then why are 95% of the supposed good PvP players from that class? You have maybe 5 of each from the other classes that actually stand out and then dozens of knights/warriors. It's not just a coincidence. The only thing that is starting to be comparable is assassins.

 

Snipers do good damage, but you can kill them so characters like PoliteAssassin wouldn't dare play it.

 

Snipers are sitting ducks. That's why I don't play them. And excuse me for playing the class I chose because I liked since launch. I was marauder when everyone erroneously thought we sucked. Why would I change to something other than what I originally intended to play? Least of all a boring sniper that can only sit there waiting to die? Sure you can get some kills if people ignore you, but all it takes is 1 to take notice and you're done. Sorry you made the wrong choice at the start, but don't complain about others who didnt. And sorry to burst your bubble, but there are only a handful who really excel at this class just like all the others. Hitting a 2 button wonder like smash and getting high numbers does not indicate skill. I really wish you stopped with these angry posts against knights and warriors too. Its beginning to get old.

Edited May 3, 2013 by PoliteAssasin

[JamesBalla]

Edited. Edited May 4, 2013 by JamesBalla

[xContex]

Most of the so called best pvpers would not be caught dead bringing anything without a glowstick into a PvP match. Well maybe they'll switch off as pocket healer from one of their smasher friends if they promise to return the favor later.

 

If knights/warriors aren't any better than any other class then why are 95% of the supposed good PvP players from that class? You have maybe 5 of each from the other classes that actually stand out and then dozens of knights/warriors. It's not just a coincidence. The only thing that is starting to be comparable is assassins.

 

Snipers do good damage, but you can kill them so characters like PoliteAssassin wouldn't dare play it.

 

Or maybe the majority of players play Jedi/Sith because it is an iconic class? When I say star wars do you immediately say han solo? Nah. Han Solo is a big character however the first thing I think of is Jedi vs. Sith. I don't think of Chewie or the Ewoks. I think of Luke vs. Darth Vader. Obi-wan vs. Anakin. Yoda vs. The Emperor. The list goes on. That is the reason why I play my knight. The same Knight I played from 3 days prior to release. The same knight that was an after thought until 1.2 when we actually put out considerable damage. (Minus that short period when surge was ridiculous)

 

I understand the frustration around the class but each class can play efficiently if played by the right person. Each class has the potential. It is up to the player to reach it. Some classes are easier than others but the misconception that "my class is crap" is just plain stupid. Less complaints. More playing.

Edited May 4, 2013 by xContex

[J_Fred]

I understand the frustration around the class but each class can play efficiently if played by the right person. Each class has the potential. It is up to the player to reach it. Some classes are easier than others but the misconception that "my class is crap" is just plain stupid. Less complaints. More playing.

 

This right here sums it up. Seeing people still complain about commandos and mercs in pvp after the buff they received is just sad. Even before the buff you had players like Harald, Eelum, and Adelise who gave you a run for your money on their mercs/mandos. Most people don't want to admit its a l2p issue, they want to blame the other class for being "OP"

[ericthenut]

This is just my personal opinion but I don't think any powertech dps has the right to complain about OP classes. PTs and Vans have been king of the hill for mdps since the game launched, now that they aren't on top anymore they want to complain about a class being OP

 

MDPS!!!! MOST DAMAGE! REALLY?!?! SERIOUSLY!?!? Go look at the record board. Tell me about a powertech with most damage in a warzone. Tell me how many rage or DOT spaming specs are in the most dps and most damage. That was foolish for someone who did play that class at a high level and sadly eye opening that you would say that because every rage spec can gloat about how they still think they have any kind of skill and say, 'That was the OP spec.' and say they were the victims. ROFL! There is no comparison to a class that is good single, as in one, target damage to a class that is FLAT OUT STUPID AOE damage, plus a lot of follow up damage that reduces the cooldown on your smash. The powertech was good, true focus damage. The catch with a powertech is they can be your focus target and take all the damage you want them to, horrible cooldowns, and to add to it no utility compared to a juggernaut. As I said earlier the thing that pisses me off the most is that the people that keep saying I'm 'QQ'ing' or 'Complaining' are the people who consistently play the juggernaut as their main class.

 

I know you, Myrmedon, mostly play Immortal. As someone who played the pyro powertech at a high level and as the skilled player you are. I consider you extremely foolish to actually say a powertech can't argue about smash or say they were 'king of the hill in the mdps' category. When I remember a few group chats along the lines of, "...all those smashers." Now you're back on your juggernaut, man charma's a ***** ain't it?

 

I have no problem saying the powertech needed something nerfed. It was unbearable if the player was good enough. The thing that pisses me off the most is that players who have the class that everyone is and has been complaining about, juggernauts, have no valid argument on a topic where they aren't the victim. They have never been in the position of unplayable. The rage juggernaut can be argued that it actually got some buffs, literally, in 2.0. Where as the powertech can still do damage, but nobody dies. I can sincerely say that as someone who has despised the over abundance of cast times on the arsenal spec merc in pvp, because it is so easily counterable. I would take an arsenal spec'd merc into a ranked q every single day of the week over a powertech in 2.0. The powertech is unplayable from a kills per warzone and 'team help' standpoint compared to almost, no wait, every other dps class.

 

I understand the frustration around the class but each class can play efficiently if played by the right person. Each class has the potential. It is up to the player to reach it. Some classes are easier than others but the misconception that "my class is crap" is just plain stupid. Less complaints. More playing.

I consider you a very good player but like you said, "....since 3 days before release...". If you switched right now to a powertech, and just for added taste kept it a secret class of yours, no one on this server would guess you were Scyn because they would think you would have been better than 'that'. It. Can't. Be. Played. Especially as the ranked player you are. You know better than to say every spec with every class, good player or not, can be played.

 

"All opinions are not equal. Some are a very great deal more robust, sophisticated and well supported in logic and argument than others."

Edited May 4, 2013 by ericthenut

[MagnysDarksong]

Keep reading these posts, but all I'm seeing behind these walls of text is this. Edited May 4, 2013 by MagnysDarksong

[J_Fred]

MDPS!!!! MOST DAMAGE! REALLY?!?! SERIOUSLY!?!? Go look at the record board. Tell me about a powertech with most damage in a warzone. Tell me how many rage or DOT spaming specs are in the most dps and most damage. That was foolish for someone who did play that class at a high level and sadly eye opening that you would say that because every rage spec can gloat about how they still think they have any kind of skill and say, 'That was the OP spec.' and say they were the victims. ROFL! There is no comparison to a class that is good single, as in one, target damage to a class that is FLAT OUT STUPID AOE damage, plus a lot of follow up damage that reduces the cooldown on your smash. The powertech was good, true focus damage. The catch with a powertech is they can be your focus target and take all the damage you want them to, horrible cooldowns, and to add to it no utility compared to a juggernaut. As I said earlier the thing that pisses me off the most is that the people that keep saying I'm 'QQ'ing' or 'Complaining' are the people who consistently play the juggernaut as their main class.

 

I know you, Myrmedon, mostly play Immortal. As someone who played the pyro powertech at a high level and as the skilled player you are. I consider you extremely foolish to actually say a powertech can't argue about smash or say they were 'king of the hill in the mdps' category. When I remember a few group chats along the lines of, "...all those smashers." Now you're back on your juggernaut, man charma's a ***** ain't it?

 

I have no problem saying the powertech needed something nerfed. It was unbearable if the player was good enough. The thing that pisses me off the most is that players who have the class that everyone is and has been complaining about, juggernauts, have no valid argument on a topic where they aren't the victim. They have never been in the position of unplayable. The rage juggernaut can be argued that it actually got some buffs, literally, in 2.0. Where as the powertech can still do damage, but nobody dies. I can sincerely say that as someone who has despised the over abundance of cast times on the arsenal spec merc in pvp, because it is so easily counterable. I would take an arsenal spec'd merc into a ranked q every single day of the week over a powertech in 2.0. The powertech is unplayable from a kills per warzone and 'team help' standpoint compared to almost, no wait, every other dps class.

 

"All opinions are not equal. Some are a very great deal more robust, sophisticated and well supported in logic and argument than others."

 

MDPS = Melee DPS. You might think smash is OP because of the auto crit, but thats one attack every what? 12 seconds? Powertechs could melt someone alot faster than a smasher could pre 2.0. Not only did we have rediculous burst but it was for the most part either spam-able or on a proc. Your looking at the numbers on a scoreboard, I'm talking about actually taking players down. I never once complained about smashers, I used to hybrid it when I was on my guardian because it made a good hybrid tank, now I run immortal because 2.0 killed that hybrid. I have never played full immortal in pvp before the last patch. If I wanted to dps I would go vengeance, which is what I am most familiar with. It is very bursty with the new additions to the spec and I would argue you could kill someone faster in vengeance than focus as well.

 

If you want to talk scoreboards tho, here are a couple screenshots where I am competing with Wrecks in dps, who is arguably the best smasher on the server. You talk about TTK? A well played powertech or vanguard could have obliterated any player pre 2.0 in a matter of seconds. But TTK was fine back them right? Its only now that its a problem.

 

http://i43.tinypic.com/2j5n9x.jpg

http://i39.tinypic.com/2zrqkd0.jpg

[J_Fred]

Really, a duel. I was mostly thinking of pvp as a whole not a duel. If you want to argue that then just do a hybrid sorc all day. Let alone marauders are one of the easiest classes to solo if you beat them with a stun before they undying rage. RAGE vs. pre-2.0 PYRO!?!?! That isn't even a fair fight, I don't care who your against. Pyro all day. Rage isn't a duel spec, vengeance is. Wrecks is a rage marauder, Kaos annihilation spec, or for that matter Neo would own a pre-2.0 pyro all day. I don't think I have a fraps of it but I remember just spawning on Defense in a hutball and Orazio being in the pit and absolutely owning be because of the self-healing and consistent damage with no protection against DOTs. My argument wasn't even whether the pyro wasn't overpowered it was a juggernaut saying a powertech has no argument. As someone who was a powertech and likes to argue, , I posted.

 

Those screenshots are not duels, they're warzones. You might want to click the image before posting a reply to them.

 

And no one said anything about trolling. Why the hell does everyone cry troll when someone makes a comment they disagree with? That's like yelling for help at the top of your lungs when someone offers you a stick of gum. It's asinine.

 

This is a very common reaction on this server.

Edited May 4, 2013 by J_Fred

[PoliteAssasin]

He's not as well groomed as I.

 

And you guys quoted me. Now I can't fix my stupid phone errors lol.

Edited May 4, 2013 by PoliteAssasin

[xContex]

I consider you a very good player but like you said, "....since 3 days before release...". If you switched right now to a powertech, and just for added taste kept it a secret class of yours, no one on this server would guess you were Scyn because they would think you would have been better than 'that'. It. Can't. Be. Played. Especially as the ranked player you are. You know better than to say every spec with every class, good player or not, can be played.

 

"All opinions are not equal. Some are a very great deal more robust, sophisticated and well supported in logic and argument than others."

 

I didn't say every spec. Guardians for the longest time didn't have all 3 specs as viable. Vigilance between 1.4 and 2.0 was absolutely useless. Focus did higher single target damage with the obvious AOE component as well. You play with what you are given. Prior to 1.2 I was a PVP tank, once 1.2 dropped I went vigilance, once 1.4 dropped and they nerfed vigilance I went focus and obviously i've stayed with it from there on out.

 

Currently Powertech tanks are fantastic. Ascension actually runs with a vanguard tank on our team. So......

[JamesBalla]

I didn't say every spec. Guardians for the longest time didn't have all 3 specs as viable. Vigilance between 1.4 and 2.0 was absolutely useless. Focus did higher single target damage with the obvious AOE component as well. You play with what you are given. Prior to 1.2 I was a PVP tank, once 1.2 dropped I went vigilance, once 1.4 dropped and they nerfed vigilance I went focus and obviously i've stayed with it from there on out.

 

Currently Powertech tanks are fantastic. Ascension actually runs with a vanguard tank on our team. So......

 

I'm glad Vigilance is Viable again. Plasma brand is most definetely my favorite animation in the game.

[PoliteAssasin]

Why is everyone still crying about the merc nerf?

 

My guilds main healer is a merc and I'm the main assist as an operative and we downed explosive conflict hard mode without issues

 

Before 1.2 it was the same thing except operative healing was broken but we managed

 

If you would spend less time qq'ing and more time playing and talking to other mercs on how to deal with the nerds you would be fine.

 

P.s another example is people whining about concealment nerfs but the people who aren't whining are owning in PvP - because they enjoy their class and nerfs don't matter

 

If you truly enjoy a class no nerf will ever be a threat

 

Sage advice indeed. I wonder what happened. Someone must have hijacked his account and started all those merc and operative QQ threads.

 

Source

inc post edit, lol.

 

Also Myrm, I'm extremely creeped out that you were able to find all those threads. It's threatening, and blackmail, and a couple other things.

Edited May 4, 2013 by PoliteAssasin

[Helmholtzz]

How did this thread turned from Guardian DPS discussion into bash other players?! Lets pull the thread back. I have always been curious about guardian DPS in PvE because not many people play that role. I only know one good guardian DPS and he does not care about forums. The OP shared his parse at level 53. Do we have any information about how things are at level 55 and with 69 gears. This will put things into perspective of other classes that have an option to go either tank or DPS (Shadow and Vanguard)

 

These are the numbers posted on PTS

But all of these parses are from PTS. Are people being able to match those numbers on live?

 

By the way if you take a look at it, top DPS goes to gunslinger but that is the freaky engineering build so you can ignore that. After the gunslingers its the sentinels who are doing 2800 and the guardians are doing 2500 which falls within 10% of the top. Also Guardians are pulling more than Shadows. The Vanguard parse here is before the nerf. So I have no idea how they are doing now.

 

But given the option of making a choice between a sentinel and a guardian (equally skilled of course) would a raid leader take the guardian over the sentinel?

[MelliMelon]

But given the option of making a choice between a sentinel and a guardian (equally skilled of course) would a raid leader take the guardian over the sentinel?

 

Idk how other raid leaders work but... I usually choose people for the player and personality. I think the content in this game is achievable even with the worst composition (heck, we cleared bosses 1-3 of NM EC with a sage DPS). We bring a guardian because he's awesome. The offtankiness is really nice, but that is not the reason WHY we bring him.

 

But I suppose this is not exactly your question... if everything were equal, I would choose the sentinel. Higher DPS and better raid buffs.

[Helmholtzz]

Sorry I worded my question in that way. It was not my intention. What my meant to say is: if a person had a guardian dps toon and a sentinel dps toon both equally geared, as a raid leader which toon would you want that person on?

[PoliteAssasin]

How did this thread turned from Guardian DPS discussion into bash other players?! Lets pull the thread back. I have always been curious about guardian DPS in PvE because not many people play that role. I only know one good guardian DPS and he does not care about forums.

 

Well you can thank NathanielStarr and Riggz for that. As for the bolded, you must not know many people I take it. There are plenty of good guardian/jugg dps on this server, pvp and pve.

Edited May 4, 2013 by PoliteAssasin