I want a 30 second Force speed with no cooldown.

[chimex]

Sentinel in Combat spec: Ataru form with Defensive forms (gives a constant 15% movement buff). Leap + Cauterize (DoT to stop cloaking, although they shouldn't cloak when carrying the ball!). Problem solved.

 

Valorous call + Transcendence (entire team +50% movement speed!) when gate opens. F*** me, that was difficult!

 

Sorcerer: Force Speed, Crushing Darkness and Force Slow. Wow, that was hard to pull off!!!

 

Sniper: Plasma Probe at 30m range (AoE over 18 seconds, with slowing effect), phew, difficult one there.

 

I could go on, but you get the picture. A Scampering Scoundrel is very easy to counter.

Edited April 18, 2013 by chimex

[Master_Nate]

No, it wont. Not on a class with cloaking ability, dodges, and an area-stun at their disposal. Thats not even getting into the fact that he can then pass the ball, or have the other 7 guys on his team guard him, pull him, taunt, kill the other team etc etc.

 

There is no need to continue a hypothetical argument of the roll being used in warzones. Go play huttball against some rollers who know how to do objectives warzones. The ability is stupid OP right now.

 

I'm not saying it needs to be deleted from the game, im saying it needs a cooldown.

 

As an Operative player, I don't really care to have this ability available to me. I'll use it and will get to the huttball quicker than my team but I really do not enjoy doing so. It's not what I think my role should be and t it doesn't really make sense for me to be doing this. I know that it is becoming expected of me, just like a marauder using predation at the beginning of most maps. The thing is, it's not the same as predation. Predation doesn't leave the marauder vulnerable to a certain destruction. Depleting my energy sets me up for failure. I see a lot of Operatives really enjoying this ability, I guess I am just the odd one out. I'm all for a gap closers but not with the ability to be abused in the objective based race of a warzone.

 

Unfortunately, as an operative I feel it is now EXPECTED of me to fill this position when huttball comes up. Sure, I don't have to and yeah first possession doesn't always mean that it is game over but as a competitive player, I feel obligated to have to do this and it just feels counter productive to what I feel my role is in PvP. I don't picture myself, as an operative, being a front man.

 

I'd like to see the ability reworked myself. 12m with no cool down seems overkill for me and I find myself over shooting where I really even want to be when I use it as a gap closer. The ability is okay but it feels extremely clunky and I think it could have been implemented a lot better. It could work like consumption and penalize the spamming of it. For example, use it once, no problem....use it a second time within 3-5 seconds, it goes on a small cool down and uses more energy...use it again and the next cooldown is longer and more energy is consumed until the debuff falls off you...and so on.

 

What people say is right and I hate putting down a new ability for my class of choice but I too think this ability pretty strong. To those who act like it's a gift from his holiness, I wouldn't go that far. Again, as an operative I enjoy the addition of a gap closer but not like the one we got. I'll take the additional ability but would like it to be for me and more controllable and not for my team like in the huttball scenario.

 

Also, when people say "it depletes" your energy, they aren't kidding. Unfortunately, I'm freakin useless when I spam to get that huttball, but that is what I feel MUST be done now to help my team win and that I don't like. I have to deplete my resource to have a competitive chance at getting the ball for my team? I'd prefer not to have it with this mentality.

 

I'm sure a lot of operatives would disagree with me and that is okay. I'm not trying to say it's OP or that that it's fine as is, I'm just saying for me personally, I don't care for it but basically have to use it because even if I hate rolling to the objectives, the opposing team probably has someone who doesn't and therefore will.

Edited April 18, 2013 by Master_Nate

[translucentwolf]

I have yet to level my Smuggler or Agent above 51 so I'm not sure what kind of ludicrous skill you have given them.

What it looks like in WZ's is that you have given them an unlimited force speed like thing that also hops over my screen making them almost impossible to target.

 

This is a game breaking bug, and in the early days you promised game breaking bugs would get highest priority. You either give that skill the same cooldown as Force Speed in an emergancy patch or you will again start losing subscribers.

 

To cross the field in Huttball in 5 sec is not a pleasent experience for either teammates or opponents.

 

But if your intent was to get nothing but Smugglers and Agents in WZ's I apologize and give you kudos. Mission accomplished!

 

If your sub is the one that's lost... No. Great. Loss.

[PerinnAybara]

Sentinel in Combat spec: Ataru form with Defensive forms (gives a constant 15% movement buff). Leap + Cauterize (DoT to stop cloaking, although they shouldn't cloak when carrying the ball!). Problem solved.

 

Valorous call + Transcendence (entire team +50% movement speed!) when gate opens. F*** me, that was difficult!

 

Sorcerer: Force Speed, Crushing Darkness and Force Slow. Wow, that was hard to pull off!!!

 

Sniper: Plasma Probe at 30m range (AoE over 18 seconds, with slowing effect), phew, difficult one there. Isn't that cleansable?

I could go on, but you get the picture. A Scampering Scoundrel is very easy to counter.

 

And it's not like a scoundrel wouldn't benefit from the transcendence on top of scamper.

 

Also, Mercenary go!!! The fact that my only slows are a knockback and unload kinda make it hard to keep a slow on an operative. Since the operative can cleanse both. Electronet is on a 90 second cooldown to a 0 second cooldown.

 

Pretty hard to chase down an operative.

[mrekxxx]

I want a PvE bolster for when I do operations!

 

stop posting stupid things and be serious

[translucentwolf]

And it's not like a scoundrel wouldn't benefit from the transcendence on top of scamper.

 

Also, Mercenary go!!! The fact that my only slows are a knockback and unload kinda make it hard to keep a slow on an operative. Since the operative can cleanse both. Electronet is on a 90 second cooldown to a 0 second cooldown.

 

Pretty hard to chase down an operative.

 

Pretty hard to chase down a sorc, too. Since they'll pop force speed, and heal themselves as they leave you behind.

 

Ops needed a gap closer, and got one. Learn how to deal.

[Kovaos]

It's not a bug. Also snipers now have "kill shot" which instantly kills someone who you target on an 8 second cool down - instant cast. And operatives gain 'QQ' which is a new form of CC whereby your enemy is helpless to do anything but cry for 60 seconds, breaks after 10 seconds on damage.

 

Ha! Best post I've seen today!

[Chimerako]

Please L2P before posting. With all the AoE slows and roots floating around your average WZ the thought of this ability being OP is silly. If that's the case I guess cc is OP too. My god shadows can teleport, troopers have a speed buff/root breaker on 30 s cd, transcendence, force speed, leaps, pulls, friendly pulls, friendly leaps. There are so many ablities related to movement this one addition does not break the bank.

[chimex]

And it's not like a scoundrel wouldn't benefit from the transcendence on top of scamper.

 

Also, Mercenary go!!! The fact that my only slows are a knockback and unload kinda make it hard to keep a slow on an operative. Since the operative can cleanse both. Electronet is on a 90 second cooldown to a 0 second cooldown.

 

Pretty hard to chase down an operative.

 

Actually, it's pretty much wasted on scamper. The range decreases when slowed, it does not increase with a speed buff. A good scoundrel would not waste 1/4 resource a go on scamper when she has a 50% speed increase for free

Edited April 18, 2013 by chimex

[Okod]

People seem to be arguing different things. The roll *in-combat* is fine, and I think works well. Still working on countering it with my various classes, but I think it's a fun addition, and looking forward to getting it on my healer Op in a level or two.

 

What a lot of people have issue with is the roll *out of combat* as, like mentioned here, a general speed-boost ability. To this there isn't really a counter...as it's often used at beginning of the round to zoom off to some objective way faster than I think was intended. As someone else point out, the energy costs don't matter, as it doesn't take energy to click an objective.

 

As I mentioned in one of the other threads on the roll, I don't think it was intended as a general speed-boost skill. You only have to read the Developer Blog on Operatives to see things such as "Exfiltrate should be very useful for closing and widening gaps" and " With Exfiltrate, it should now be possible to more easily establish some distance and breathing room", not "we wanted to make Operatives the fastest class in the game".

 

If I was to redesign it I'd make it a 15 energy ability *but* with a stacking debuff that lasts, say, 9s, that increases the cost by 20. First roll is therefore cheaper than currently - great for escapes and an opening move - the 2nd roll is more expensive, but still allows 2 back-to-back rolls for the same energy cost as now. The 3rd and further rolls will need a slight pause and/or Adrenal Probe and start getting prohibitively expensive.

Edited April 18, 2013 by Okod

[Astarica]

The people talking about the resource cost clearly do not get that most objective WZ is won by distance management. In a competitive game of Huttball the team that can always grab the ball fast has an overwhelming advantage. In Voidstar, being able to cover the distance from first door to bridge control can lead to a chain reaction of capping the next door unopposed if your team is at all good at area control. In Alderaan, simply getting to the other node will prevent the other team will capping it until they can kill you, which is not exactly easy against an Op even with no energy because they have several tricks and the turret itself provides LoS.

 

Let's put it this way, let's say the ability it changed that each time you roll you put a 60s debuff on yourself and when it runs out, it blows you up and you die, and each roll decreases the duration by 12s. You absolutely will still roll 4 times in Huttball at start, grab, the ball, and then immediately pass it back to your best ball carrier. You absolutely will roll 3 times after the first door is down in Voidstar so you can drop the force field with no possibility of stopping you (unless the enemy has the same ability), and then just jump down and die to get rid of this debuff. Depending on the occasion, it'd also still be worth it to take a guaranteed death simply to be able to get to a node quicker on Alderran/Novare Coast/Hypergates to disrupt it. And this is with an insane drawback that obviously do not exist in the game right now.

 

The roll needs to have a CD on it. There's no ability that can manage distance anywhere in the same league as this and distance management wins WZs.

[Purple-Punch]

Tools will be Tools ..

[ripamorame]

Deal if we get dodge to be on par with shroud deflection a ranged slow ranged attacks that hit 7k a finisher ranged channeled slow /thread shadows thinking they are worse than operatives make me laugh all day long. Also let my damage not be tied into my opener give me 2 stuns. Edited April 18, 2013 by ripamorame

[mrdert]

The hilarious part is all these boys and girls testifying as to the fact scamper is not op are the same ones who were up in arms at just the possibility of inquisitors having force speed on a 5 sec cool down back in 1.7.

 

Ill accept force speed with 25 force cost, just take away the cool down. That will be fair too, right? After all force speed with shroud, deflection, cloak, and adrenals/medpacks are easily countered.

[BoushhDC]

There's a major difference between scamper and other speed abilities of other classes. I was chasing an Op in an Ancient Hypergate and they were disappearing and re-appearing 8 meters or so ahead with each "re-appearance", repeatedly and in rapid succession. I saw him "re-appear" about 3 times before I lost sight of him in the tunnel under the spawn point. This might be the ability, or an issue with general lag that WZs often get, or it might be lag generated by the ability itself in combo w/ WZ lag. Usually though, I have detected little to no lag in that particular WZ (compared to others) but when I saw it, I thought I was lagging badly until I recognized it as the new ability.

 

The difference is that other classes are more manageable to counter, because that "phasing in and out" created targeting issues. In Huttball? Yeah, forget about it. With all the LOS issues that map has designed into it, very difficult to manage for lower mobility classes.

[Zunayson]

Yeah last night I was in a huttball and we had slow pred (50%) and I dropped down from top mid and an Op had already grabbed the ball, *** is that? By the time I was in range to leap to him he threw it to the jugg on their team and vanished right after the leap. So... Yeah not op'ed guys :|.

 

^Mad that his 15 second leap was countered by someone's 1.5min vanish

 

^^ also mad that his free OPS WIDE speed boost from lv 22 isn't as good as the energy requiring LV 51 only one person move that is cut by slows is better.

[Monterone]

Yeah last night I was in a huttball and we had slow pred (50%) and I dropped down from top mid and an Op had already grabbed the ball, *** is that? By the time I was in range to leap to him he threw it to the jugg on their team and vanished right after the leap. So... Yeah not op'ed guys :|.

 

Yeah I wrote about this on the PTS forums after I tested it. There is no way anyone can even get close to the ball, or in range to charge you by the time you grab the ball in Huttball. Literally, you can grab the ball before anyone is even in the 30m range to cast a slow or charge.

 

All I got for that post was about 4-5 operatives telling me it's fine and probably laughing behind their screen waiting for this to make it live.

 

It's game breaking and it deserves a look, BW. Internal cooldown.

[Monterone]

It's also worth mentioning Exfiltrate only costs 21 energy in Concealment, which is why we're seeing 6-7 rolls in a row.

[Zorash]

The people talking about the resource cost clearly do not get that most objective WZ is won by distance management. In a competitive game of Huttball the team that can always grab the ball fast has an overwhelming advantage. In Voidstar, being able to cover the distance from first door to bridge control can lead to a chain reaction of capping the next door unopposed if your team is at all good at area control. In Alderaan, simply getting to the other node will prevent the other team will capping it until they can kill you, which is not exactly easy against an Op even with no energy because they have several tricks and the turret itself provides LoS.

 

Let's put it this way, let's say the ability it changed that each time you roll you put a 60s debuff on yourself and when it runs out, it blows you up and you die, and each roll decreases the duration by 12s. You absolutely will still roll 4 times in Huttball at start, grab, the ball, and then immediately pass it back to your best ball carrier. You absolutely will roll 3 times after the first door is down in Voidstar so you can drop the force field with no possibility of stopping you (unless the enemy has the same ability), and then just jump down and die to get rid of this debuff. Depending on the occasion, it'd also still be worth it to take a guaranteed death simply to be able to get to a node quicker on Alderran/Novare Coast/Hypergates to disrupt it. And this is with an insane drawback that obviously do not exist in the game right now.

 

The roll needs to have a CD on it. There's no ability that can manage distance anywhere in the same league as this and distance management wins WZs.

 

Really so the issue is that they can get to a node quicker? Before OP/soundrels had the roll marauders/sents had transcendence, guess what tell me a single class that can beat a transcendence marauder/sentinel to a node? NONE, the only one who can beat them is another person with trans, why do you think rated teams had a trans on every team.

 

People act like the OP/scoundrel speed buff is so OP in huttball. Guess what before the roll scoundrels were one of the worst classes in huttball, they didn't have a speed burst, leap, knockback etc. Scoundrels/Ops had one of the worst mobility as a melee class, they finally have some now.

[Astarica]

Really so the issue is that they can get to a node quicker? Before OP/soundrels had the roll marauders/sents had transcendence, guess what tell me a single class that can beat a transcendence marauder/sentinel to a node? NONE, the only one who can beat them is another person with trans, why do you think rated teams had a trans on every team.

 

People act like the OP/scoundrel speed buff is so OP in huttball. Guess what before the roll scoundrels were one of the worst classes in huttball, they didn't have a speed burst, leap, knockback etc. Scoundrels/Ops had one of the worst mobility as a melee class, they finally have some now.

 

Transcendence offers a 4 second advantage (180% - 130% * 10)/1.3) which can be dealt with. Scamper is by far 4 second faster than even the fastest class. The difference between Transcendence and Scamper is that the guy using Transcendence in Huttball is well within the range of the enemy after he grabbed the ball. The guy using Scamper is not.

[Zunayson]

Transcendence offers a 4 second advantage (180% - 130% * 10)/1.3) which can be dealt with. Scamper is by far 4 second faster than even the fastest class. The difference between Transcendence and Scamper is that the guy using Transcendence in Huttball is well within the range of the enemy after he grabbed the ball. The guy using Scamper is not.

 

Well transcendence is a group buff so everyone gets it.

 

Scamper only gives a huge advantage in burst movement, since scamper is doing 12m every 1.5s without being slowed, well above the rate of transcendence

[Monterone]

Well transcendence is a group buff so everyone gets it.

 

Scamper only gives a huge advantage in burst movement, since scamper is doing 12m every 1.5s without being slowed, well above the rate of transcendence

 

Exactly, I'm ok with a group buff being the fastest thing in the game. But I'm not ok with one single ability being way faster than even the group buff.

[Xerain]

^Mad that his 15 second leap was countered by someone's 1.5min vanish

 

^^ also mad that his free OPS WIDE speed boost from lv 22 isn't as good as the energy requiring LV 51 only one person move that is cut by slows is better.

 

Actually I was on my jugg, so try harder.

[Astarica]

Well transcendence is a group buff so everyone gets it.

 

Scamper only gives a huge advantage in burst movement, since scamper is doing 12m every 1.5s without being slowed, well above the rate of transcendence

 

The point of most objective based WZ is to have one person to get to somewhere really fast. Having 8 guys bomb a door doesn't make the door blow up any faster.

[Alphasgimaone]

This BS really needs to stop. Any CD on Scamper will totally negate its primary function as an escape. One of the first things anyone should do during a melee engagement is snare his opponent. In that case, the Op would then be able to roll a whole step out of melee range every few seconds. Nice.

 

Good teams have already figured out all but completely counteract Scamper as a node charge, since it really isn't as OP as some make it out to be.

 

Ops finally get thrown a bone, but with out their gear advantage and refusal to think strategically, some will undoubtedly persist in complaining about it, and Bioware will listen. And Ops will be booted right back off rateds.

 

TYVM

 

Transcendence offers a 4 second advantage (180% - 130% * 10)/1.3) which can be dealt with. Scamper is by far 4 second faster than even the fastest class. The difference between Transcendence and Scamper is that the guy using Transcendence in Huttball is well within the range of the enemy after he grabbed the ball. The guy using Scamper is not.

If an Ops is allowed to roam this freely in Hutball, the issue is not with him or his new skill but the opposing team. Have someone hold the tee, and this will never happen. Good grief.

 

I suggest a tank-spec Vanguard. He has a pull, a charge, a proced snare, a stealth detection skill, a PBAOE (also for stealth detection), and the survivability to eat an Op's opening burst.

 

Plus, for all you Vans/PTs complaining about a nerf, I just gave you something to do. Two birds 'n all that. You're welcome.