Let's be honest the only thing that matters in PVP is the healers

[Resiel]

Boring or not, the op is right healing is all that matters. If two of them are together they are virtually unstoppable if guarded. I have seen four or five dps try to kill one operative that was guarded by one jugg and being healed by sorc. You can't kill anyone. If you attack the sorc, jugg switches guard and operative heals sorc. Attack jugg they both heal jugg. This three person combo can hold any point by themselves against a whole team of dps.

 

It rather silly actually. If I see this combo on an enemy team I know it's a loss if my team doesn't have at least two healers to match.

 

Healing needs to be toned down.

 

 

Just give it time , as more people reach 55 or PVP under the new system they'll realize how ridiculous healing has become and will either quit or demand change. Maybe i wouldnt mind the whole system as much if I didnt have a healer and realize how mind numbingly simple it is to be one.

 

(Dont worry healers you still get my MVP votes, even if it takes very minimal skill I know that you're the only players in the warzone who mean anything)

[Juusto]

Boring or not, the op is right healing is all that matters. If two of them are together they are virtually unstoppable if guarded. I have seen four or five dps try to kill one operative that was guarded by one jugg and being healed by sorc. You can't kill anyone. If you attack the sorc, jugg switches guard and operative heals sorc. Attack jugg they both heal jugg. This three person combo can hold any point by themselves against a whole team of dps.

 

It rather silly actually. If I see this combo on an enemy team I know it's a loss if my team doesn't have at least two healers to match.

 

Healing needs to be toned down.

 

Or you could do the unthinkable and attack both healers with 2+2 dps and that way they can't crossheal and other one isnt getting guarded.

[fium]

We are too dependent by the pick up ... when you play with 3 mates.

There are all the time 3 healers / BG .. with tank .. 900k damage to 2 dead O_O what else !?

 

If you play healer, you know that your team doesn't more DPS ...

And if you play DPS, you know that you have not healers ..

 

To kill one Healer proc with 2 healbot ... it's just impossible ... and they come back quickly.

 

Just we need decreasing % dope damage or % heal received .. by Expertise stats. And sure, after it .. nerf some DPS class.

[Hawk-Firestorm]

Very true to a degree, but equally if you have alot of stealth units like OPS/Smuglers that is equally unbalancing.

 

Healing was a issue, and will be till Bioware put in a proper matching system, you either had too much on one team and none on the other same goes with stealth gank squads which is going about now.

[FromAbove]

Have you seen games where one side has everyone with 20+ kills and the other side has <5 each? I've seen many of those games very recently. Not in 1.7. Not since 1.2. But now? At least every other game is like that on POT5, level 55, regs. Not fun at all if you're on the dying side. And it's not a matter of skill (unless you are a healer), just luck of the draw.

 

I haven't really figured out yet how I feel about the healing changes, but I gotta say, the bolded part is very true on Harbinger as well. Lots of massively imbalanced kill tallies. It's pretty discouraging when you're on the losing side.

Edited April 20, 2013 by FromAbove

[Volxen]

Boring or not, the op is right healing is all that matters. If two of them are together they are virtually unstoppable if guarded. I have seen four or five dps try to kill one operative that was guarded by one jugg and being healed by sorc. You can't kill anyone. If you attack the sorc, jugg switches guard and operative heals sorc. Attack jugg they both heal jugg. This three person combo can hold any point by themselves against a whole team of dps.

 

It rather silly actually. If I see this combo on an enemy team I know it's a loss if my team doesn't have at least two healers to match.

 

Healing needs to be toned down.

 

It shouldn't be easy to kill a well coordinated group of 2 healers and 1 tank. That's the entire point of healing/tanking vs DPSing. This isn't Call of Duty. There is more to the game than "pew pew ur dead".

 

If it were easy to DPS down 2 healers and a tank, or 3 healers cross-healing, then what would be the point of healing/tanking? There wouldn't be any point, because DPS would be vastly overpowered compared to the other two roles. Yes, tanking/guarding and cross-healing is very effective in this game, as it should be. You know what else is effective, especially with the extremely low TTK? Focus fire. An ungaurded/unspported solo healer, and pretty much ANY one that isn't a tank, can be killed extremely fast with the proper usage of focus fire. Healers and tanks really only become a force to be reckoned with when they are working together. Even a single tank that isn't being healed can be focused down pretty fast.

 

This isn't a matter of healers/tanks being God's, its a matter of good teamwork between healers/tanks at keeping everyone alive. Yes, healers/tanks become exponentially more effective when they work together. But DPSers also become exponentially more effective when they all work together to focus down opponents one-by-one, rather than all attacking different opponents. Cross-healing is extremely effective, healer/tank combos are extremely effective, and focus fire is extremely effective.

[Volxen]

Maybe i wouldnt mind the whole system as much if I didnt have a healer and realize how mind numbingly simple it is to be one.

 

Lol. Because DPSing is so much more difficult than healing, right?

[Xsorus]

Only thing that truly annoys me more then anything is not having any healers..

 

What really annoys me about that is i'll see like a bunch of Sorcs/Operatives/Mercs in my Warzone and not a single one will switch over to healing......I mean I understood not having healers back in the day cause you couldn't just respec..

 

But the fact that we end up with no healers in a warfront with that many people who could be healing just pisses me off.

[JaingSkiratapwns]

Healers decide wzs in 2.0. Especially sorc/sage. They outheal almost any damaging class consistantly. Edited April 21, 2013 by JaingSkiratapwns

[Astarica]

I really don't see what's so overpowered about healer other than that having none of your team makes life really miserable. Yes they're probably a bit too hard to kill and I'd like to see 5% more tacked on to trauma, but as long as you have a healer on your team, the exact same logic applies to your healer.

 

From looking at the posts I think people have a problem thinking about these games strategically. In the typical map you got your objective, with the ranged/healer lined up 30m away from it and the melee fighting all over the place. Usually, the guys I see complaining about healers are the one where their DPS is attacking the enemy melee and wondering why those 3 guys spamming Deliverance in the back is easily outhealing their damage. Yes if you fight like that the team with more healers is probably going to win. What you need to do is take your melee and put them on the enemy healer and make them RETREAT. At some point, the healers cannot continue face tanking your melee assuming you melee don't suck, and will retreat to further than 30m from their melee. At this point, the rest of your team focus fire on those melee first (who are now out of range for heals), and then use this time to attempt to capture the objective. Note, you do not use this time to attempt to kill more people. The guy chasing the healer away is usually totally dead (all the enemy team's ranged DPS will probably focus on him).

 

So in Novare Coast you'd take this time to cap the node while the healers are on the retreat. In Hypergates you'd try to grab an orb. In Alderaan you'll try to cap the turret. This is especially useful against Sage healers who will usually be forced to run back and pop a Forcequake to stop you, which uses up a ton of Force. Once you have the objective, assuming your team is at all a match you can simply stall for time and win. In the case of Hypergates, each orb you grab is as good as killing 2 guys. If you grabbed 4 or more orbs in a round you can basically just retreat everyone to your side because they won't be able to make up in kills if you simply leave.

[FodderofCannon]

It shouldn't be easy to kill a well coordinated group of 2 healers and 1 tank. That's the entire point of healing/tanking vs DPSing. This isn't Call of Duty. There is more to the game than "pew pew ur dead".

 

If it were easy to DPS down 2 healers and a tank, or 3 healers cross-healing, then what would be the point of healing/tanking? There wouldn't be any point, because DPS would be vastly overpowered compared to the other two roles. Yes, tanking/guarding and cross-healing is very effective in this game, as it should be. You know what else is effective, especially with the extremely low TTK? Focus fire. An ungaurded/unspported solo healer, and pretty much ANY one that isn't a tank, can be killed extremely fast with the proper usage of focus fire. Healers and tanks really only become a force to be reckoned with when they are working together. Even a single tank that isn't being healed can be focused down pretty fast.

 

This isn't a matter of healers/tanks being God's, its a matter of good teamwork between healers/tanks at keeping everyone alive. Yes, healers/tanks become exponentially more effective when they work together. But DPSers also become exponentially more effective when they all work together to focus down opponents one-by-one, rather than all attacking different opponents. Cross-healing is extremely effective, healer/tank combos are extremely effective, and focus fire is extremely effective.

 

Yeah so you like a heal centric game. Yesterday my Sorc healer and one tank face tanked an entire team of dps for like 3 mins. I mean the entire team of like 8 dps. It was sick. I will give you that some of them may have been scrubs, but I laughed my *** off. As a sorc I have so much mobility that I could escape/heal and my tank could cc people attacking me and do enough damage to kill them one by one. Eventually he died because I ran out of force and that was mostly because the dpser in me couldn't resist the odd force lightning or affliction, but at that point I realized something was seriously wrong. Throw in one other healer and we could have tanked that whole team forever.

[Resiel]

Yeah so you like a heal centric game. Yesterday my Sorc healer and one tank face tanked an entire team of dps for like 3 mins. I mean the entire team of like 8 dps. It was sick. I will give you that some of them may have been scrubs, but I laughed my *** off. As a sorc I have so much mobility that I could escape/heal and my tank could cc people attacking me and do enough damage to kill them one by one. Eventually he died because I ran out of force and that was mostly because the dpser in me couldn't resist the odd force lightning or affliction, but at that point I realized something was seriously wrong. Throw in one other healer and we could have tanked that whole team forever.

 

Im starting to think the only people who dont realize this is a problem are people who

 

A)are healers and enjoy facerolling everybody

 

or

 

B) never actually PvP and think just saying something like 'focus fire' actually works.

[MotorCityMan]

Yeah so you like a heal centric game. Yesterday my Sorc healer and one tank face tanked an entire team of dps for like 3 mins. I mean the entire team of like 8 dps. It was sick. I will give you that some of them may have been scrubs, but I laughed my *** off. As a sorc I have so much mobility that I could escape/heal and my tank could cc people attacking me and do enough damage to kill them one by one. Eventually he died because I ran out of force and that was mostly because the dpser in me couldn't resist the odd force lightning or affliction, but at that point I realized something was seriously wrong. Throw in one other healer and we could have tanked that whole team forever.

 

Almost exact same thing happen to me. My Sorc healer and one Op who didn't even have a weapon equiped capped all three nodes and held them for 7 mins until I got a phone call from my girlfriend, Kaley Cuoco. But we still won easily.

Edited April 21, 2013 by MotorCityMan

[Whizzer_]

The current PVP gameplay is similar to TF2 in my opinion.

In TF2 if you have no Medic in your team you are going to lose if the other team has one.

And if the teams are roughly equal in skill a game is mostly decided by the individual skill of the medic and his bodyguards + the timing of the Uber.

 

The problem in SWTOR is that if you get rolled for a bit and have no/not enough Healers, often nobody switches from DPS to Healer. In TF2 thats just two clicks to spawn as a Medic, in SWTOR you need to:

1. Have an Character unlock for field respec

2. Spend your Skill Points for healing

3. Rearrange your bars and UI for healing

 

If Bioware manages to simplify that by adding, for example: User creatable spec presets with stored bars/hotkeys and a special NPC in the warzone spawn area where you can switch between Specs.

That would IMHO make a lot more players willing to switch to healer to have a chance to win the warzone, if its less effort and less time wasted fiddeling around with your character.

[Arkerus]

And this is the exact core of the problem. Healing is so powerful right now that they are THE deciding factor.

 

A team that starts with two or three healers will win, period. A least in pre 2.0 a DPS team had a sliver of a chance. Too many times the system gives one team zero healers. If a pure DPS team has NO chance of winning then what is point if playing when the system spawns a team like that?

[Arkerus]

Yeah so you like a heal centric game. Yesterday my Sorc healer and one tank face tanked an entire team of dps for like 3 mins. I mean the entire team of like 8 dps. It was sick. I will give you that some of them may have been scrubs, but I laughed my *** off. As a sorc I have so much mobility that I could escape/heal and my tank could cc people attacking me and do enough damage to kill them one by one. Eventually he died because I ran out of force and that was mostly because the dpser in me couldn't resist the odd force lightning or affliction, but at that point I realized something was seriously wrong. Throw in one other healer and we could have tanked that whole team forever.

 

Regarding that other guy's post, I have to chuckle a bit when healers claim they are all "mad skills" and that's why they win. It's not because healing was buffed. Lol....same with every other game. Healers are a bunch of Hawkings, while DPS are just dumb peasants. Healing isn't harder than anything else.

[Foambreaker]

Its truth, whether im on any dps it really matters not they're all the same i can spam snipe, grav round, smash, or maul like a braindead moron or have a optimized 'skilled' rotation and my team wins and loses the same but if Im on my healer or my team has good healers boom win about every time. Healing and having healers is the only thing that matters in PvP in this game. They're so overpowered it's ridiculous. The End.

 

The only time it matters is if you have healers and the other team doesn't, if both teams have the same number of heals then it is back to damage.

[Coltraine]

I think it's pretty obvious healing HAD to get buffed. I'm having a lot more fun when I'm getting healed and my opponents are too. Things have already gotten a lot better than the first few days of the expansion where teams would have 4 lolsmashers ****** everyone, now they started logging on their healers.

[WaywardOne]

I think it's pretty obvious healing HAD to get buffed. I'm having a lot more fun when I'm getting healed and my opponents are too. Things have already gotten a lot better than the first few days of the expansion where teams would have 4 lolsmashers ****** everyone, now they started logging on their healers.

 

I get no satisfaction in beating down one-three opponents while I'm being healed because I know that my skills and efforts weren't particularly relevant to the kill(s). When I fight a non-healer someone that isn't being healed I have to do 20-45k damage, depending on the class/spec/gear/skill/cooldowns - when I fight someone that is being healed I can do over 100k and not produce a dent until I switch to the healer -and- use interrupts/cc and even then I'm usually going to have to do a lot more than 45k damage to finish him. With and without heals is two completely different fights and, while the fights are much shorter, I think there's a lot more skill involved in the without category.

Edited April 21, 2013 by WaywardOne

[Volxen]

Regarding that other guy's post, I have to chuckle a bit when healers claim they are all "mad skills" and that's why they win. It's not because healing was buffed. Lol....same with every other game. Healers are a bunch of Hawkings, while DPS are just dumb peasants. Healing isn't harder than anything else.

 

Healing and tanking are most certainly more complicated than DPSing. Why do you think DPSers are a dime a dozen? Being the solo healer (especially a Commando healer) on a team with 7 DPSers is probably the most challenging thing ever. Even if all of the DPSers are very good and try to support you (unlikely), they simply cannot support a healer in the same capacity that a tank or another healer can. And if the enemy team is any good, you will be marked, focused fired, and forced to spend a lot of time running away from their melee DPS while healing yourself. Even if they don't manage to kill you, they can easily manage to take you out of the fight and then focus down your teammates while you are unable to heal them. Whereas if you just specced DPS in this situation (so that your team would be 8 DPSers), you would just be another DPSer and wouldn't necessarily draw any special attention. You would actually be able to contribute more easily since you would be dealing out damage while also not being the constant target of focus fire.

 

I've been a healer (Commando healer) on a team with 7 DPSers, and I've been a DPSer on a team with 7 other DPSers. The latter is definitely the easier route.

Edited April 21, 2013 by Volxen

[Astarica]

And this is the exact core of the problem. Healing is so powerful right now that they are THE deciding factor.

 

A team that starts with two or three healers will win, period. A least in pre 2.0 a DPS team had a sliver of a chance. Too many times the system gives one team zero healers. If a pure DPS team has NO chance of winning then what is point if playing when the system spawns a team like that?

 

Would you attempt to do a WZ with no DPS? I bet that'd be extremely hard to win too so why would you expect having no healer be viable? If anything having no healer is far more viable as a team composition than having no DPS. The only map you might have a chance of winning without a DPS is Huttball and you probably autolose every other mob just because you can never kill anybody so eventually they will be able to kill you. Just because no healer scenario happens way more often than the no DPS scenario doesn't mean healing itself is overpowered.

 

It's insulting to say it's only the healer that matters when it's the DPS that shuts down the healers and kills the DPS that you can't shut down (the only good way to shut down a good DPS is by killing them). It's still possible for the 'no healer' team to overcome a team with healer, even a good one, though the effort involved is probably too great, as all your DPS have to be relatively good while the healer can just be facerolling heals. Like another poster pointed out, the problem is that it is not easy to switch on the fly due to spec cost/availability not to mention rearranging your AI. It might be a good idea to take a page from WoW to ensure that at least one person speced in healing (defined by having the majority of points in a healing tree) on each team before the game starts. This can be done behind the scenes. There's no guaranteed the healer has to be any good, but at least you'd have a guy who can heal.

[Astarica]

Regarding that other guy's post, I have to chuckle a bit when healers claim they are all "mad skills" and that's why they win. It's not because healing was buffed. Lol....same with every other game. Healers are a bunch of Hawkings, while DPS are just dumb peasants. Healing isn't harder than anything else.

 

I see a guy talking about healer is hard because you've to keep everyone alive but you often can't keep everyone alive. Well being a DPS hard is too, because you want to kill everyone you see but you can only kill one guy at a time and often times you die and won't be killing anybody.

[Volxen]

I see a guy talking about healer is hard because you've to keep everyone alive but you often can't keep everyone alive. Well being a DPS hard is too, because you want to kill everyone you see but you can only kill one guy at a time and often times you die and won't be killing anybody.

 

And? It's still easier than healing, and waaaaaaaaay easier than being the solo healer on your team.

[foxmob]

So you can literally read from one extreme to another on these forums and do you know why? Because most DPS in this game are bad players. Let me say this clearly so people don't get offended. Pre 2.0 a team of 8 DPS could easily win. Why? Because damage was out of control. You would see few healers if any in pugs, because they could barely function without a guard. So now all those same players just smashing keys and not using CC/interrupts properly can't kill anyone due to healers..

 

dmg is up across the board. however, healing and, especially, protection/mitigation and dcds went up more so. I heal. I dps. even if I were the worst player in the WZ, the fact that it's considerably more difficult to bring down a 2nd healer or a guarded healer is very apparent to me. honestly, if I have a tank, it feels like commando healing 1.1. I point and laugh at 2 dps. I can make myself immune to interrupts, to kbs. I can kite. I can face tank. it's ridiculously easy to heal in a balanced grp. and most reg WZs are not balanced. that's the real key here. they're just not balanced (by role). it's painfully obvious in 2.0 when that is the case. pre 2.0, ppl would complain it's cuz the other team has more heals or more tanks, but it was really because the other team was better. now? well let's just say the "it's because they have X healers and a tank" is far more legitimate.

[Resiel]

And? It's still easier than healing, and waaaaaaaaay easier than being the solo healer on your team.

 

 

A brutally inept healer still helps their team more than a pretty good dpser. Not broken at all.