Let's be honest the only thing that matters in PVP is the healers

[Soxbadger]

Youre probably right too many is a bad thing but in the hundreds maybe thousands of warzones ive been in the times we've had too many healers i can count on my hand, Healing is so easy and boring most people dont actually want to do it so theres usually never too many, which is all the more silly that healing is the main decider of pvp in this game.

 

Funny as a healer I always thought dps was so easy and boring.

 

Being a healer means that as soon as the other group is smart, they put a little icon above my head and every smash monkey and there brother immediately focus on me. If that is easy and boring, Im not sure what pvp is.

 

In comparison, I have a ptech/vanguard for when I got annoyed at being constantly killed. How hard is it to pull people to you and stun them? How hard is it to run into a group and start popping aoe constantly, knowing that your healer is going to be the one trying to figure out how to apportion heals and what to do. How hard is it to jump out of heal range and then wonder why didnt I get healed?

 

Sorry if your random pew pewing wasnt able to beat focused healing.

[Kovaos]

In comparison, I have a ptech/vanguard for when I got annoyed at being constantly killed.

 

I'm in the same boat as you. The people that don't have a healer don't understand what it's like to get targeted and focused.

 

The nature of this thread it to accuse healz being OP right now. DPS has gotten better as well and TTK is down. DPS needs to adjust and stop spamming "the hurtz" keys and start focusing healers or CC them properly.

[Resiel]

I love this BS about just needing to be more skilled or whatever. the fact is on my Sorcerer healer I win about 90% of the time despite the fact I suck and DONT have skill with him. On my dps chars its like 40-60 but it really doesnt matter whether I take a dump on the side or do 1 million dmg. The match is decided by the healing and that is it.

[Astarica]

I love this BS about just needing to be more skilled or whatever. the fact is on my Sorcerer healer I win about 90% of the time despite the fact I suck and DONT have skill with him. On my dps chars its like 40-60 but it really doesnt matter whether I take a dump on the side or do 1 million dmg. The match is decided by the healing and that is it.

 

If it's that easy what happens when both side have healers?

 

Now if you're a healer your presence alone rules out the case of your side having no healers. No healers versus any number of healer is a terrible matchup for the side with no healers and that shouldn't surprise anybody, though I'd say this is because there are relatively few good DPS that even knows to attack a healer let alone pursue them successfully, while even a bad healer presumably still knows he's supposed to heal other people.

[Resiel]

If it's that easy what happens when both side have healers?

 

Now if you're a healer your presence alone rules out the case of your side having no healers. No healers versus any number of healer is a terrible matchup for the side with no healers and that shouldn't surprise anybody, though I'd say this is because there are relatively few good DPS that even knows to attack a healer let alone pursue them successfully, while even a bad healer presumably still knows he's supposed to heal other people.

 

When both sides have equal healers matches are generally a war of attrition. Which IMO is equally not fun. My point is really healers alone decide warzones in this game everybody else is interchangeable. If thats the way its supposed to be so be it. Just makes it pretty pointless if youre dps to know you literally have nothing to do with winning and losing.

[Soxbadger]

Well you are right in a certain sense. The team with the best healers, is probably going to win.

 

But as dps, Im just wondering why you arent able to intervene? Many times my healing numbers are directly correlated to what the other team does.

 

If you see me with 1 million heals and no deaths, that means your team did their job wrong. You likely let me free cast, never focus fired and just assumed that you were going to stand in the middle death matching and win because you are the best dpser on the planet.

 

In comparison, some teams will focus on healers or make a plan for how to make a healers life miserable. In that match my life is going to depend a lot more on what my team is doing. Do I have a tank? Are they guarding me? Do I have dps who are going to peel off of me? Do I have an off healer, so that if a team just goes after me I can just absorb damage while the dps takes them down 1 by 1.

 

Part of the problem is that many dps are just so worried about numbers. Some wzs I have almost no healing, because I just did my job, stayed at a node with a tank and we won. Sometimes Ill have huge numbers, but we lost because while I was keeping dps up, they were all just death matching instead of focusing.

 

The best teams will have people who are competent in all roles. 8 healers wont win a wz, 4 healers wont win a wz, you really only want 2, maybe 3 if you have really great dps. Isnt that ironic, dps are necessary and do have a major impact.

Edited April 17, 2013 by Soxbadger

[Yeochins]

When both sides have equal healers matches are generally a war of attrition. Which IMO is equally not fun. My point is really healers alone decide warzones in this game everybody else is interchangeable. If thats the way its supposed to be so be it. Just makes it pretty pointless if youre dps to know you literally have nothing to do with winning and losing.

 

You do.

 

1. 1 DPS focuses or keeps a healer self CC'ed by forcing them to heal themselves
   
2. 3 other DD's kill the taunting Tanks/Powertech DPS.
   

 

Win!

[Resiel]

You do.

 

1. 1 DPS focuses or keeps a healer self CC'ed by forcing them to heal themselves
   
2. 3 other DD's kill the taunting Tanks/Powertech DPS.
   

 

Win!

 

3.Because im being guarded and taunted and have a million cc breakers now one person focusing is literally not gonna bother me in the slightest. If you dont focus with at least 3 people. I will not die and neither will any players around me.

[Astarica]

When both sides have equal healers matches are generally a war of attrition. Which IMO is equally not fun. My point is really healers alone decide warzones in this game everybody else is interchangeable. If thats the way its supposed to be so be it. Just makes it pretty pointless if youre dps to know you literally have nothing to do with winning and losing.

 

Why is the outcome decided by the healers, not the DPS who was able to finally kill the opposing side's healer in this battle of attrition? You're basically saying healer deaths are an act of god and not actually caused by good DPS. Healers, especially good healers, do not accidentally die. Their death is usually caused by very deliberate actions of equally good DPS players. Sure if you have no healers I agree right now the game is a bit too stacked against them, but outside of this case, your DPS's ability to drop their healer definitely impacts who wins the game.

[Astarica]

3.Because im being guarded and taunted and have a million cc breakers now one person focusing is literally not gonna bother me in the slightest. If you dont focus with at least 3 people. I will not die and neither will any players around me.

 

You haven't been on the receiving end of good DPS if you think that's true. By the way, since you're being guarded, of course you should expect at least 2 DPS on you because you're using 2 people here. Otherwise you're basically saying 'having 2 guys means 1 guy can't possibly threaten me'. Well yeah, I agree no DPS, no matter how awesome, can't possibly expect to defeat 2 guys by himself let alone a healer + tank combo.

Edited April 17, 2013 by Astarica

[Soxbadger]

3.Because im being guarded and taunted and have a million cc breakers now one person focusing is literally not gonna bother me in the slightest. If you dont focus with at least 3 people. I will not die and neither will any players around me.

 

lol

 

This is pretty much exactly how it should work.

 

Tank+Healer should not be beaten by 1 dps, unless the tank and healer are completely dumb.

 

Tank + Healer v 2 dps, probably goes to the tank and healer because if all things are being considered each class should probably be a "draw" or "win" for tank/healer because if you are running at a tank/healer in this fashion you are probably not going after objectives properly. IE they are clearly running 2/6, meaning that you can run 1/7 or you could go after the 2 with 4... But in general defenders have an advantage over attackers because they are trying to hold a position.

 

Tank + Healer v 3 or more. This is where you need to be. You take the healer down. The tank is guarding healer, meaning you are also significantly damaging tank. Once healer is dead, you now have a 3 on 1 situation. Tank dies. Now you have a tank and healer out of the game.

 

So yes, teams that understand strategy will win. And teams that are comprised of dps who think they are going to 1 on 1 or 2 on 2 a tank/healer are going to lose.

 

Im starting to wonder if you are trolling us now or if you are always playing in a pre-made thus face rolling pugs who have no clue and are likely just randomly death matching.

Edited April 17, 2013 by Soxbadger

[LarryRow]

I did answer you. Healing in 1.7 was a mess without a full group (premade) due to damage being superior to healing. Has it swung too far in the other direction? Maybe, but that's Biowares decision. I don't hold with the idea that because healers are hitting high numbers in WZ's that they should be automatically nerfed to the ground again. Mainly due to the fact that heals, heal for more and have larger health pools to fill.

 

Right now the pvp game is all about team work. If you have no/bad heals you will probably lose. I've been in games where I've hit 1+ mil in heals and still lose because there are DPS out there that struggle to break 100k at 55. It's just the sad truth.

 

Healers have depended on team support since 1.2, and they still do. But at least in 1.7 if you were unlucky and got a pug match with no healers, sure you were at a disadvantage, but you had a decent chance.

 

That just seems totally out the window now. No healers? GG. And mostly I blame the TTK. If I can blow you up in 4 gcds, and you can blow me up in 4 gcds, but I have a HoT or 2 on me, guess who is going to win. Multiply this by 5 or 6 dps, at least some of whom are hopefully focus firing, and multiply that by the numbers advantage that you get when you kill the first opponent, and the other team's performance goes downhill pretty quick.

[Laforet]

The stronger healers seems to be, the more important DPS becomes.

 

If healing is indeed piss easy at 2.0, any moron can heal, so you will have plenty of healers, which leads to the necessity of having strong DPS to win.

[MotorCityMan]

Its truth, whether im on any dps it really matters not they're all the same i can spam snipe, grav round, smash, or maul like a braindead moron or have a optimized 'skilled' rotation and my team wins and loses the same but if Im on my healer or my team has good healers boom win about every time. Healing and having healers is the only thing that matters in PvP in this game. They're so overpowered it's ridiculous. The End.

 

Can't faceroll a healer anymore eh? Poor you.

 

No team will win without having some melee dps. So does this mean that they are also so overpowered it's ridiculous?

 

A team has a better chance to win if they have healers, same as they have melee dps, and ranged dps. Same as having stealth gives a team a distinct advantage, same as having a tank using taunt and guard gives a team an advantage.

Edited April 17, 2013 by MotorCityMan

[Soxbadger]

Its just hilarious to be honest.

 

Its like a PVE thread saying "The only thing that matters is healers" and then people going "Well if no one tanks the healer dies..." and "If no one dpses the enrage timer goes off..." but we should ignore all of that, because healers keep people alive and keeping people alive is somehow oped!

 

All I can say is lol wut?

 

A good amount of classes (such as mine sorc) can dps or heal. No one is forcing you to dps. If you are in a wz and you have no healers, you can take the initiative and respec. As a healer, I will try and give an indication that I am a healer pre-match if more than 2 people also indicate heal, I will respec to dps.

 

Thats called being a team player and helping to win. I will agree that bolster and all of that stuff is a complete mess and BW really messed it up. But I will not agree that somehow "healers" the ones who are the most dependent on every other class, are somehow ruining wzs. When I run my ptech and vanguard, Im sad when there are no healers. Being able to survive and actually fighting (for me) is fun.

[scraycroft]

I'm almost constantly paired with another Seer Sage pub side on pug groups. With our 10 sec LOL bubbles you will never burn either of us down if the other sage has a pulse, even I can admit the healing is ridiculous - I can't imagine what I'll be doing with my 55 gear.

 

Edit: I haven't jumped on my operative DPS since 2.0 so I'll have to see if its truly broken or that people are just not used to having to actually interrupt/cc healers to kill them instead of just spamming attacks and facerolling over healers.

Edited April 17, 2013 by scraycroft

[MotorCityMan]

I'm almost constantly paired with another Seer Sage pub side on pug groups. With our 10 sec LOL bubbles you will never burn either of us down if the other sage has a pulse, even I can admit the healing is ridiculous - I can't imagine what I'll be doing with my 55 gear.

 

It's easy to burn down any player if dps focuses.

Edited April 17, 2013 by MotorCityMan

[TheCourier-]

Sages don't die easily to focus fire. The 10 second force barrier should block all incoming healing while it is being used.

[MotorCityMan]

Sages don't die easily to focus fire. The 10 second force barrier should block all incoming healing while it is being used.

 

Ya a 10 second self stun on a 3 min on CD. How bout the 10 second force barrier not only blocks all incoming healing but drains 99% of the sage's health while it's being used? That would be even better. Ya, that's the ticket.

[Soxbadger]

I'm almost constantly paired with another Seer Sage pub side on pug groups. With our 10 sec LOL bubbles you will never burn either of us down if the other sage has a pulse, even I can admit the healing is ridiculous - I can't imagine what I'll be doing with my 55 gear..

 

Lowbie pvp really isnt a good place to draw conclusions.

 

I play a sorc healer (same as a sage), if there are 2 of us, you can kill us if you know what you are doing. So lets say I use force barrier optimally after I already have a hot on me. I sit there and cant be hit for 10 seconds, so what do you do? You immediately turn and focus on the other sage. Now they use their force barrier. You now have 2 sages who just blew there defensive cooldown and will be very killable in 10 seconds.

 

So yes you now have to switch targets as a dps in pvp.

 

No you cant just always click on the player with the icon above there head and smash 1,2,3 over and over to kill them.

 

Do people really not want to have to think and use strategy in pvp?

 

If so, why not play pve? The reason why I pvp is because I want to go up against humans who are going to use strategy. Very few times as a healer is the best strategy to "Take myself out of the fight for 10 seconds", but every once in a while using it at a very opportune time could make a difference.

 

Strategy. No longer can you just slam 2 buttons and kill a light armor wearing healer. No longer can you just mark the healer and focus over and over again for a win.

 

When I play my dps I generally cause a lot of problems for sage/sorc healers. But that is because I know they are best when turret healing (only have shield and 1 hot that can be used while moving) so I dont just let them stand still. Youd be surprised how fast a sorc will hit force speed if death from above is under their feet. I may not be able to kill them 1 on 1, but I can certainly make them ineffective.

[scraycroft]

True you can just turn and focus the other sorc/sage but once I see the swap I stop my channel then my bubble and force speed come of CD instantly, I sprint away and my tank peels, I heal everyone back up, and if our DPS is doing its job those 10 seconds bought us a few kills.

 

Unless the other team has the same duo and we just stalemate.

 

Also want to say the dual Salvation (dont know the mirror ability) puddles in Ancient Hypergates mid is just silly.

[MotorCityMan]

True you can just turn and focus the other sorc/sage but once I see the swap I stop my channel then my bubble and force speed come of CD instantly, I sprint away and my tank peels, I heal everyone back up, and if our DPS is doing its job those 10 seconds bought us a few kills.

 

Unless the other team has the same duo and we just stalemate.

 

Also want to say the dual Salvation (dont know the mirror ability) puddles in Ancient Hypergates mid is just silly.

 

So not only do you have a partner healer, you have a pocket tank peeler. And abilities with 20 seconds and 30 seconds come off CD after a couple of seconds because of course they were perfectly timed to coincide with you breaking your channel early....and ...who knows what the other team is doing, maybe buying popcorn and watching,...the story just gets better and better. ........

Edited April 17, 2013 by MotorCityMan

[Soxbadger]

True you can just turn and focus the other sorc/sage but once I see the swap I stop my channel then my bubble and force speed come of CD instantly, I sprint away and my tank peels, I heal everyone back up, and if our DPS is doing its job those 10 seconds bought us a few kills.

 

Unless the other team has the same duo and we just stalemate.

 

Also want to say the dual Salvation (dont know the mirror ability) puddles in Ancient Hypergates mid is just silly.

 

Okay if all of this is true it sounds like you are running a pre-made in 54? In that case you are likely going to win more than you lose.

 

But even in your scenario, you break away and your tank peels. Youve now left the group, as your opponent I still can send 3 after you to try and kill you, knowing that the other sorc is currently incapable of doing anything until his channel is over or he breaks it. Thus I force his break early and he no longer has an off healer. Plus when you are sprinting, you can only use 2 heals shield and the lowest hot. I have now significantly reduced your ability to heal.

 

Not to mention 2 players are separated from the pack. If they send 3 after you, you are outmanned and youve left your healing partner alone to potentially get focused on 5-1, unless you also are in a group where the other healer has a dedicated tank.

 

But seeing as Ive only gotten 1 dedicated tank in any pug I have ever run...

 

It just sounds like your going up against pugs that are not pre-mades and probably more interested in death matching than actually winning.

Edited April 17, 2013 by Soxbadger

[-Wes-]

A good amount of classes (such as mine sorc) can dps or heal. No one is forcing you to dps. If you are in a wz and you have no healers, you can take the initiative and respec. As a healer, I will try and give an indication that I am a healer pre-match if more than 2 people also indicate heal, I will respec to dps.

 

Thats called being a team player and helping to win. I will agree that bolster and all of that stuff is a complete mess and BW really messed it up. But I will not agree that somehow "healers" the ones who are the most dependent on every other class, are somehow ruining wzs. When I run my ptech and vanguard, Im sad when there are no healers. Being able to survive and actually fighting (for me) is fun.

 

I completely agree. Out of curiosity, how does one re-spec once in the starting area of a warzone? I'm just not familiar with this. I would think it would take some time, plus having to re-slot abilities in the quickslots?

[Soxbadger]

I have the respec legacy unlock (primarily for when I was puging flashpoints and would que as both healer/dps).

 

So unless you cant do it in wzs anymore (cant imagine but honestly havent tried since 2.0) you would just go to your skill tree and respec. You gotta put all your buttons back in the right place (shakes fist about not being able to save heal ui v dps ui) but after a few times you can generally do it in about 30 seconds or so.

 

I think the unlock was 50k credits.