Let's be honest the only thing that matters in PVP is the healers

[FodderofCannon]

Come on guys stop with the "insult the other" guy argument. Healing and DPS can both be easy and hard. They are different, not "easier" or "harder" than the other. Skill is required for both to excel at. Granted a healer being guarded by a skilled tank is going to be a lot easier, but good teamwork will always make your job easier, two dps is better than one.

 

So stop with that argument that's not what the thread is about.

 

I actually think healing might not be the main problem, but Tanks are just much more effective at protecting them now, and cross-healing is far too effective and a little out of control. I think there should be a slight debuff to healers healing each other, maybe 20%? That might solve the whole thing.

[Volxen]

Come on guys stop with the "insult the other" guy argument. Healing and DPS can both be easy and hard. They are different, not "easier" or "harder" than the other. Skill is required for both to excel at. Granted a healer being guarded by a skilled tank is going to be a lot easier, but good teamwork will always make your job easier, two dps is better than one.

 

So stop with that argument that's not what the thread is about.

 

I actually think healing might not be the main problem, but Tanks are just much more effective at protecting them now, and cross-healing is far too effective and a little out of control. I think there should be a slight debuff to healers healing each other, maybe 20%? That might solve the whole thing.

 

What about adding a 20% debuff to targets being focused fired at by 2 or more people, then?

[FodderofCannon]

What about adding a 20% debuff to targets being focused fired at by 2 or more people, then?

 

We already have guard.

[Astarica]

Come on guys stop with the "insult the other" guy argument. Healing and DPS can both be easy and hard. They are different, not "easier" or "harder" than the other. Skill is required for both to excel at. Granted a healer being guarded by a skilled tank is going to be a lot easier, but good teamwork will always make your job easier, two dps is better than one.

 

So stop with that argument that's not what the thread is about.

 

I actually think healing might not be the main problem, but Tanks are just much more effective at protecting them now, and cross-healing is far too effective and a little out of control. I think there should be a slight debuff to healers healing each other, maybe 20%? That might solve the whole thing.

 

There's really no improvement to tanks guarding healers compared to before. The difference is that healers got several CD that can escape certain death and Force Barrier is particularly powerful with multiple healers around. Since it's a bit late to revamp the skills the easiest fix would be to increase the effect of Trauma.

[RoadyYdaor]

hi guys first time poster first time reader.

Now i haven't read the whole post as it is 3 pages long but i do want to add the ya healers are key in pvp, and get hardly any love at the end when it comes to voting time. I myself had made a point to always vote for the healer as when i play i would top 450k 67-1 was my best and only got 1 vote. That was mildly upsetting. that's just one of many examples. but ya give some love to the healers because we are talking about a strike here. lol

 

 

so thanks and nice meeting yall.

[MotorCityMan]

Healers needed a buff. They were ineffective. The problem is not so much healing is now OP as it is that the warzones are simplistically designed to be 8 man death matches. There is only 3 or 2 nodes in a warzone. This means that most fights are in big groups where healers can stack and are most effective. Only if dps effectively focuses can they bring down targets. Problem is, only premades will be able to do this effectively. Pugs just don't have the communication and coordination to do it. I've already noticed premades loading up on healers.

I don't know how they could have released an expansion after more than a year and not have added some new and varied warzones. Bioware needs to realize that pvp is endgame for some players.

[FodderofCannon]

Healers needed a buff. They were ineffective. The problem is not so much healing is now OP as it is that the warzones are simplistically designed to be 8 man death matches. There is only 3 or 2 nodes in a warzone. This means that most fights are in big groups where healers can stack and are most effective. Only if dps effectively focuses can they bring down targets. Problem is, only premades will be able to do this effectively. Pugs just don't have the communication and coordination to do it. I've already noticed premades loading up on healers.

I don't know how they could have released an expansion after more than a year and not have added some new and varied warzones. Bioware needs to realize that pvp is endgame for some players.

 

Although this may be true, it still results in healers being disproportionately effective in WZ"s than anyone else. One extra healer is the difference between winning and losing. One extra dps or tank means nothing.

[alexsamma]

It shouldn't be easy to kill a well coordinated group of 2 healers and 1 tank. That's the entire point of healing/tanking vs DPSing. This isn't Call of Duty. There is more to the game than "pew pew ur dead".

 

If it were easy to DPS down 2 healers and a tank, or 3 healers cross-healing, then what would be the point of healing/tanking? There wouldn't be any point, because DPS would be vastly overpowered compared to the other two roles. Yes, tanking/guarding and cross-healing is very effective in this game, as it should be. You know what else is effective, especially with the extremely low TTK? Focus fire. An ungaurded/unspported solo healer, and pretty much ANY one that isn't a tank, can be killed extremely fast with the proper usage of focus fire. Healers and tanks really only become a force to be reckoned with when they are working together. Even a single tank that isn't being healed can be focused down pretty fast.

 

This isn't a matter of healers/tanks being God's, its a matter of good teamwork between healers/tanks at keeping everyone alive. Yes, healers/tanks become exponentially more effective when they work together. But DPSers also become exponentially more effective when they all work together to focus down opponents one-by-one, rather than all attacking different opponents. Cross-healing is extremely effective, healer/tank combos are extremely effective, and focus fire is extremely effective.

 

Wanted to quote this because it was an awesome post.

 

TLDR: Teamwork wins objective-based team-oriented pvp.

 

For what it's worth, I have a healer, a tank, a melee dps, and a ranged dps - I love the changes to pvp, though they can be infuriating when you have incompetent teammates (healers that barely break 100k, dps who do not break 100k, tanks who do not guard/taunt....).

 

I've had a few frustrating matches where the other team had 2-4 healers, but it was very fun finding ways to cc/control them and kill them - and if we lost it was generally because the random dps on our team couldn't manage to break 100k damage.

Edited April 22, 2013 by alexsamma

[Coldin]

I've been seeing this pop up a few times lately, but it's mostly noticable in Voidstar. That's only a two objective map, so a good team with healers is really all you need to win. Last voidstar was just 4 healers, and a bunch of people doing off heals. Focusing people was pretty fruitless because the morale pools are so high (26k+) that you need a lot of big hits in success to burst them down. It's pretty telling when one team walks away with over two dozen kills, and the losing team has just single digits. Our team had a healer too, but one healer isn't quite enough to keep us all alive. The problem is a bit less pronounced in other warzones, simply because objectives are much more spread out.

 

Good teamwork is important. But having healers who can cross kill is even more important. I'd say that's it's probably a little too powerful right now. Guard has always been really strong, same with taunt. But putting two healers together is VERY powerful. Two well communicating healers will basically almost never die except in extreme circumstances. Three healers is even worse.

 

Not really sure how they can fix that, but there should be some way that a team can take out a healer even when that healer is getting heals from someone else.

[Astarica]

I've been seeing this pop up a few times lately, but it's mostly noticable in Voidstar. That's only a two objective map, so a good team with healers is really all you need to win. Last voidstar was just 4 healers, and a bunch of people doing off heals. Focusing people was pretty fruitless because the morale pools are so high (26k+) that you need a lot of big hits in success to burst them down. It's pretty telling when one team walks away with over two dozen kills, and the losing team has just single digits. Our team had a healer too, but one healer isn't quite enough to keep us all alive. The problem is a bit less pronounced in other warzones, simply because objectives are much more spread out.

 

Good teamwork is important. But having healers who can cross kill is even more important. I'd say that's it's probably a little too powerful right now. Guard has always been really strong, same with taunt. But putting two healers together is VERY powerful. Two well communicating healers will basically almost never die except in extreme circumstances. Three healers is even worse.

 

Not really sure how they can fix that, but there should be some way that a team can take out a healer even when that healer is getting heals from someone else.

 

You can get away with having like 4 healers on Voidstar because the nature of that map grossly favors Smashers so if they're the DPS on the side with the 4 healers they can still do enough to kill people. If you're in any of the slightly more open maps, you're not killing anybody with 4 healers if the other side has at least one healer. Assuming at least 1 of your guys is a tank (would be pretty stupid to have 4 healers and no guard) even if your entire team's DPS (all 3 of them) focus fire on the enemy's lone healer it's rarely going to be enough.

[Volxen]

Not really sure how they can fix that, but there should be some way that a team can take out a healer even when that healer is getting heals from someone else.

 

The solution is focus fire. Two ungaurded healers cross-healing can definitely be taken out with appropriate focus fire.

 

Seriously..... do people really not realize just how powerful focus fire when all of the DPSers on a team (which is usually at least 6 people) actually target the SAME person? It's much, MUCH more powerful than a mere two ungaurded healers cross-healing each other. Of course it's going to seem "impossible" to kill two cross-healing healers if half of your DPSers target one of the healers and the other half target the other healer (or the more realistic case where probably no more than 3-4 are targeting healers -- and they are probably not all attacking the same healer to boot).

 

If your team doesn't focus fire healers down one-by-one (and in most games there are no more than 2 healers), then yes, those healers will just cross-heal all of your damage and laugh at you. Which is exactly how it should be.

[Resiel]

As more and more people get geared and leveled, the truth just becomes more and more obvious. Healing is all that matters. Do yourself a favor people dont bother pvping unless you can heal or tank/guard. Youre bringing your team down otherwise.

[Astarica]

The solution is focus fire. Two ungaurded healers cross-healing can definitely be taken out with appropriate focus fire.

 

Seriously..... do people really not realize just how powerful focus fire when all of the DPSers on a team (which is usually at least 6 people) actually target the SAME person? It's much, MUCH more powerful than a mere two ungaurded healers cross-healing each other. Of course it's going to seem "impossible" to kill two cross-healing healers if half of your DPSers target one of the healers and the other half target the other healer (or the more realistic case where probably no more than 3-4 are targeting healers -- and they are probably not all attacking the same healer to boot).

 

If your team doesn't focus fire healers down one-by-one (and in most games there are no more than 2 healers), then yes, those healers will just cross-heal all of your damage and laugh at you. Which is exactly how it should be.

 

Focus fire is way overrated, simply because if you let 2 guys spam Deliverance/Kolto/Medical Scan to anybody, even if the recipient is a healer, and the recipient is still dead then that team obviously has no chance of actually surviving. In reality 2 guys spamming the generic 'big heal' will easily beat any amount of focus fire. In fact this is pretty much how Huttball works, as focus fire on the ball carrier almost never works against a good team if you let their healers get away with healing. That's why you need to split up to make sure the other healers can't get away with spamming big heals via interrupts + applying pressure. What generally happens is whoever the healers are currently all healing still isn't going to die, but that's okay, because some other healer is going to get low and then you do focus fire on that guy when he's close enough to execute range.

[Volxen]

Focus fire is way overrated, simply because if you let 2 guys spam Deliverance/Kolto/Medical Scan to anybody, even if the recipient is a healer, and the recipient is still dead then that team obviously has no chance of actually surviving. In reality 2 guys spamming the generic 'big heal' will easily beat any amount of focus fire. In fact this is pretty much how Huttball works, as focus fire on the ball carrier almost never works against a good team if you let their healers get away with healing. That's why you need to split up to make sure the other healers can't get away with spamming big heals via interrupts + applying pressure. What generally happens is whoever the healers are currently all healing still isn't going to die, but that's okay, because some other healer is going to get low and then you do focus fire on that guy when he's close enough to execute range.

 

2 Healers cross-healing, no matter how good, cannot survive being focused fired at by 6-8 people. Just because the ops leader marks the healers and yells "FOCUS THE HEALERS" over and over and over doesn't mean anyone actually does so. If you truly believe that 2 unguarded healers can cross-heal against 6-8 people attacking them (again, one healer at a time), then you have never seen a good team do focus fire.

 

It's very simple:

 

Step 1: Have your 6-8 DPS all target healer A and focus fire him until he is dead.

 

Step 2: Have your 6-8 DPS all target Healer B (who is now alone since healer A is dead) and focus fire him until he is dead.

 

Healing is not going to be nerfed just because PUGs are incapable of coordination and focus fire.

[Astarica]

2 Healers cross-healing, no matter how good, cannot survive being focused fired at by 6-8 people. Just because the ops leader marks the healers and yells "FOCUS THE HEALERS" over and over and over doesn't mean anyone actually does so. If you truly believe that 2 unguarded healers can cross-heal against 6-8 people attacking them (again, one healer at a time), then you have never seen a good team do focus fire.

 

It's very simple:

 

Step 1: Have your 6-8 DPS all target healer A and focus fire him until he is dead.

 

Step 2: Have your 6-8 DPS all target Healer B (who is now alone since healer A is dead) and focus fire him until he is dead.

 

Healing is not going to be nerfed just because PUGs are incapable of coordination and focus fire.

 

PvP isn't like some idealized PvE encounter where every DPS can indeed lock on to whoever they want. If your DPS are Snipers there are some times they will be completely incapable of doing any damage on the healer due to obstruction. Various forms of CC also prevents you from applying DPS optimally. Their DPS is also killing your DPS at the same time. Yes of course a lot of people never focus fire on anybody but it's not as simple as sending 6 guys all after the guy marked fire. Doing that means a single well timed AE CC can stop you cold. You usually end up having about 3 guys focus fire on the primary target while the rest DPS spread out on their healers to make sure they can't spam big heals and then switch to the healer who isn't getting healed.

 

Again you need to just look at Huttball to see that even an entire team's DPS isn't always enough to bring down the Huttball carrier, even if he isn't the tank.

[FodderofCannon]

2 Healers cross-healing, no matter how good, cannot survive being focused fired at by 6-8 people. Just because the ops leader marks the healers and yells "FOCUS THE HEALERS" over and over and over doesn't mean anyone actually does so. If you truly believe that 2 unguarded healers can cross-heal against 6-8 people attacking them (again, one healer at a time), then you have never seen a good team do focus fire.

 

It's very simple:

 

Step 1: Have your 6-8 DPS all target healer A and focus fire him until he is dead.

 

Step 2: Have your 6-8 DPS all target Healer B (who is now alone since healer A is dead) and focus fire him until he is dead.

 

Healing is not going to be nerfed just because PUGs are incapable of coordination and focus fire.

 

You also conveniently forget to mention that one tank that changes this whole dynamic almost exponentially 2 Healers and a tank can hold off 6-8 dps for a very, very long time. Enough time to hold any point on any map.