What is your Vengeance/Rage DPS?

[Arlon_Nabarlly]

askmrrobot

 

This is BiS gear until they nerf serendipitous stacking. Then I will get Underworld boundless.

 

http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/character/a74ab955-e898-4229-b4ad-5f7a4bd6e288

 

This is pretty close to what I have. I have one item less crit swapped for power than you. My understanding is Crit DR starts at 300 so I'm trying to stay as close to that without going over.

 

As far as the serendipitous assault have you tested this versus the other relics? It seems from my testing and math that SA sucks for Vengeance (assuming you're not exploiting the double bug). In my testing the Arakanian dmg proc performed as well or better than Underworld SA and it seems BiS relics are still Underworld Boundless Ages and Underworld dmg proc.

Edited May 30, 2013 by Arlon_Nabarlly

[Dire]

This is pretty close to what I have. I have one item less crit swapped for power than you. My understanding is Crit DR starts at 300 so I'm trying to stay as close to that without going over.

 

As far as the serendipitous assault have you tested this versus the other relics? It seems from my testing and math that SA sucks for Vengeance (assuming you're not exploiting the double bug). In my testing the Arakanian dmg proc performed as well or better than Underworld SA and it seems BiS relics are still Underworld Boundless Ages and Underworld dmg proc.

 

Serendipidous procs on cooldown (internal) because of Vengeance's ability to keep uptime at maximum. Having said that maybe seredipidous/dark radiance would be bis. Something to consider. Thanks bro, I will test all these combos out. Let me knwo what else u come across if you've tested them. I don't listen to google or randoms on a blog.

[Zaxem]

how much crit are you guys running cause i parsed about 50-100ish dps higher with no crit expect for 1 52 crit 79 surge

[BlownSi]

I am wondering if I am doing something wrong.

 

Currently I run my Jugg for HM SV and TFB, Vengeance of course. I have mostly 72's, with a 72 hilt. max primary is 1655 and bonus damage is 1417. My crit is sitting at 23.8% (force crit is right at 30%), surge at 70%, and accuracy at 99.7%.

 

Every 5 minute parse I have done on my ship dummy has netted me consistently at 2450-2500 dps average. Now, based on some of the parses I have seen, I should be able to maintain at least 2600+ on the ship dummy in my current gear. Am I expecting to much with my current gear/stats or am I doing something wrong.

 

I have tried two different rotations; my normal rotation which prioritizes Ravage, Impale, and Scream, and another rotation which prioritizes uptime of the bleeds over all else. Of course, my normal rotation wins out usually. I have also switched mods to bring crit up to the 26% level and dropped crit for more power down to the 22% level, but both parsed slightly less than what I hit on the current set up.

 

I guess I am feeling like maybe I am gaffing my rotation, which I have not been able to find any solid information on correct and prioritized rotations. Any advice on improving my rotation or just a shut up and play would be fine would be appreciated....lol.

[ssfish]

I am wondering if I am doing something wrong.

 

Currently I run my Jugg for HM SV and TFB, Vengeance of course. I have mostly 72's, with a 72 hilt. max primary is 1655 and bonus damage is 1417. My crit is sitting at 23.8% (force crit is right at 30%), surge at 70%, and accuracy at 99.7%.

 

Every 5 minute parse I have done on my ship dummy has netted me consistently at 2450-2500 dps average. Now, based on some of the parses I have seen, I should be able to maintain at least 2600+ on the ship dummy in my current gear. Am I expecting to much with my current gear/stats or am I doing something wrong.

 

I have tried two different rotations; my normal rotation which prioritizes Ravage, Impale, and Scream, and another rotation which prioritizes uptime of the bleeds over all else. Of course, my normal rotation wins out usually. I have also switched mods to bring crit up to the 26% level and dropped crit for more power down to the 22% level, but both parsed slightly less than what I hit on the current set up.

 

I guess I am feeling like maybe I am gaffing my rotation, which I have not been able to find any solid information on correct and prioritized rotations. Any advice on improving my rotation or just a shut up and play would be fine would be appreciated....lol.

 

Have you checked your logs to see if lag is causing the last hit on Ravage to not fire? That's almost always the case when I see parses starting to dip down into the 2500-2600 range. Look at the three parses of over 2850 on the game-wide DPS thread (note: my latest is on the last page), and you will see three different "rotations," though all three of us are pretty close to identical when it comes to the priority list.

 

Edit: I have a really tough time articulating my approach to Vengeance, so I find it hard to give general guidance about the class. If you link one of your parses, I would be more than happy to dig through it and see what suggestions I can come up with.

Edited June 7, 2013 by ssfish

[arkitip]

I am wondering if I am doing something wrong.

 

Currently I run my Jugg for HM SV and TFB, Vengeance of course. I have mostly 72's, with a 72 hilt. max primary is 1655 and bonus damage is 1417. My crit is sitting at 23.8% (force crit is right at 30%), surge at 70%, and accuracy at 99.7%.

 

Every 5 minute parse I have done on my ship dummy has netted me consistently at 2450-2500 dps average. Now, based on some of the parses I have seen, I should be able to maintain at least 2600+ on the ship dummy in my current gear. Am I expecting to much with my current gear/stats or am I doing something wrong.

 

I have tried two different rotations; my normal rotation which prioritizes Ravage, Impale, and Scream, and another rotation which prioritizes uptime of the bleeds over all else. Of course, my normal rotation wins out usually. I have also switched mods to bring crit up to the 26% level and dropped crit for more power down to the 22% level, but both parsed slightly less than what I hit on the current set up.

 

I guess I am feeling like maybe I am gaffing my rotation, which I have not been able to find any solid information on correct and prioritized rotations. Any advice on improving my rotation or just a shut up and play would be fine would be appreciated....lol.

 

Ravage doesn't have priority, bleeds do. The Ravage reset has a 9s ICD. So from the time it resets you can use 5 GCDs comfortably before using Ravage. Try to squeeze in another round of bleeds before using Ravage. Same thing (but to an even larger degree) for Vicious Throw. 20s ICD. Basically throw every other ability you have before using VT without wasting the proc.

 

 

The 1 thing I can honestly tell you, is that Vengeance is dependent on Ravage procs. EVERY top parse in the spec has over 20% of the damage done by Ravage. That means that the proc rate is higher than average, 35%-40%. Higher bleed parses are gonna be 2700ish, that's that.

 

Personally I'm trying to improve on using Rage for the consistency it offers.

[ssfish]

Ravage doesn't have priority, bleeds do. The Ravage reset has a 9s ICD. So from the time it resets you can use 5 GCDs comfortably before using Ravage. Try to squeeze in another round of bleeds before using Ravage. Same thing (but to an even larger degree) for Vicious Throw. 20s ICD. Basically throw every other ability you have before using VT without wasting the proc.

 

 

The 1 thing I can honestly tell you, is that Vengeance is dependent on Ravage procs. EVERY top parse in the spec has over 20% of the damage done by Ravage. That means that the proc rate is higher than average, 35%-40%. Higher bleed parses are gonna be 2700ish, that's that.

 

Personally I'm trying to improve on using Rage for the consistency it offers.

 

Just a small correction.... You can use 3 GCDs before Ravage, otherwise you are potentially giving away proc-chance time. 9 second window = 6 GCDs. 1 GCD from the ability that procced Ravage, 2 more for the Ravage channel. That leaves 4.5 seconds, or 3 globals, before Ravage can be procced again.

 

Edit: If you procced on Shatter, then you can use 4, since presumably Impale is coming next, so it's going to be delayed by 1 global on the back end.

Edited June 7, 2013 by ssfish

[jasonthelamb]

got some good tips here, thanks a ton Edited June 7, 2013 by jasonthelamb

[BlownSi]

Good info here thanks. I will check the logs and see if Ravage is maybe missing that last tick. Once I can get a good 2 or 3 parses I will post them up. I did one last night and noticed that I still have a habit of rolling into Sunder too early and am wasting rage; a carry over from pre-2.0 I guess. Gonna change my timing on that and see what happens. Thanks for all the info guys.

[Aelaias]

I am wondering if I am doing something wrong.

 

Currently I run my Jugg for HM SV and TFB, Vengeance of course. I have mostly 72's, with a 72 hilt. max primary is 1655 and bonus damage is 1417. My crit is sitting at 23.8% (force crit is right at 30%), surge at 70%, and accuracy at 99.7%.

 

Every 5 minute parse I have done on my ship dummy has netted me consistently at 2450-2500 dps average. Now, based on some of the parses I have seen, I should be able to maintain at least 2600+ on the ship dummy in my current gear. Am I expecting to much with my current gear/stats or am I doing something wrong.

 

I have tried two different rotations; my normal rotation which prioritizes Ravage, Impale, and Scream, and another rotation which prioritizes uptime of the bleeds over all else. Of course, my normal rotation wins out usually. I have also switched mods to bring crit up to the 26% level and dropped crit for more power down to the 22% level, but both parsed slightly less than what I hit on the current set up.

 

I guess I am feeling like maybe I am gaffing my rotation, which I have not been able to find any solid information on correct and prioritized rotations. Any advice on improving my rotation or just a shut up and play would be fine would be appreciated....lol.

 

It's funny, with my PVP setup I am sitting at around 23.5 crit and I found this to be the sweet spot at least for 22 second burst parses. Dropping crit lower or taking it higher both decreased my dps. My highest parse was 2560 in an instance where everything procced. Consecutive use of shatter and impale should produce a ravage proc rate of 51%. It felt less than that, though that's hardly scientific.

[ipagex]

I'm coming back here in hope some of you pros can figure out what i'm (still) doing wrong.

 

Here's a 20 min parse with 2550~ sustained DPS

 

http://www.torparse.com/a/288574/time/1371302910/1371304226/0/Overview

 

My max DPS was 2650 over a 4 minute duration (in another log). Taking into account what gear some of you say you have and the DPS you do i still have the impression i'm doing too little with mine.

 

Bellow is a quick review of my stats and gear:

 

 

bm ear

verpine implants

dg relic of ba

arkanian relic of sa

wrist/waist - 72s

head/chest/hands/leggs/feet - all 72 except de armoring which are 69

mh and oh are 72

full purple str augs (66)

 

enhancements are with high endurance / need to change them to adept

 

i have 4 piece jugg set bonus / tried with 2 piece ravage bonus as well

 

str: 3223

dmg primary: 1476-1727

bonus dmg: 973

acc: 99.42

crit: 19.42 (buffed)

crit multi: 70.88

 

Edited June 15, 2013 by ipagex

[arkitip]

I'm coming back here in hope some of you pros can figure out what i'm (still) doing wrong.

 

Here's a 20 min parse with 2550~ sustained DPS

 

http://www.torparse.com/a/288574/time/1371302910/1371304226/0/Overview

 

My max DPS was 2650 over a 4 minute duration (in another log). Taking into account what gear some of you say you have and the DPS you do i still have the impression i'm doing too little with mine.

 

Bellow is a quick review of my stats and gear:

 

 

bm ear

verpine implants

dg relic of ba

arkanian relic of sa

wrist/waist - 72s

head/chest/hands/leggs/feet - all 72 except de armoring which are 69

mh and oh are 72

full purple str augs (66)

 

enhancements are with high endurance / need to change them to adept

 

i have 4 piece jugg set bonus / tried with 2 piece ravage bonus as well

 

str: 3223

dmg primary: 1476-1727

bonus dmg: 973

acc: 99.42

crit: 19.42 (buffed)

crit multi: 70.88

 

You're running out and using Force Charge and in doing so losing uptime on the target. With the way the spec works now there's never any reason to run out and leap back in on a dummy parse. You're better off just using Assault if you need a couple of Rage and the other Rage builders are on CD.

 

Here's a side by side comparison of a parse of mine and your parse trimmed to the same length:

 

Mine

 

Yours

 

 

1st thing you'll notice is I had a really high Ravage proc rate. So if I adjusted yours up based on average dmg per tick you would have hit 2680 DPS. So yeah, part of it is definitely RNG (a large part unfortunately).

 

2nd, even though I have 3 more uses of Ravage in there, somehow I manage to fit 2 more Impales and 1 more FS in, which in turn gave me higher uptime on my bleeds.

 

Those are all high DPS abilities. 1 you can't control (Ravage proc rate), the other you absolutely can. I'm under the impression that you lost uptime on those abilities because of the running out to leap back in. Either that or you prioritized using a Ravage proc over getting your bleeds back up.

[ipagex]

Took your advice about not using force charge all the time - 2675 DPS

http://www.torparse.com/a/289094/time/1371329125/1371329462/0/Overview

 

Thanks.

 

btw, what relics are you using?

Edited June 15, 2013 by ipagex

[arkitip]

Took your advice about not using force charge all the time - 2675 DPS

http://www.torparse.com/a/289094/time/1371329125/1371329462/0/Overview

 

Thanks.

 

btw, what relics are you using?

 

Using an UW relic of Elemental Transcendence and a DG relic of Boundless Ages. I thought power procs and damage procs would stack and had a Conqueror power proc so grabbed the dmg proc UW relic 1st. Turns out they don't, so I need 2 more relic tokens now. Although the dmg proc relic isn't far behind the power proc.

[ssfish]

I'm finally to the point where all I need for BiS 72s is a relic, so 3k is just a matter of time.

 

Of course, once we get our 75s, 3k will be nothing.

[Arlon_Nabarlly]

http://www.torparse.com/a/293564

2704.76

Full 72s except 1 relic, 1 enh, and 1 poorly optimized 72 enh

[Rafe_Vidar]

http://www.torparse.com/a/293564

2704.76

Full 72s except 1 relic, 1 enh, and 1 poorly optimized 72 enh

 

I'm curious what itemization priorities y'all are using. Especially what crit rating everyone aims for. I've switched my guardian from 28% crit (~500 rating) to full power/accuracy/surge holding my accuracy at 99-100% with ~65% surge and unknown power. I showed a remarkable improvement over the crit stacking, enough to question if having 0 crit rating should be a goal.

 

Also, I'm sure a may be doing my rotation wrong as I deviate, sometimes substantially, from how others abilities are lining up. My rotation is based on plasma brand's activation and syncing that with overhead strike immediately after into rush and finally to sunder in order to recoup focus. Master strike is priority at the start only then always refreshing bleeds/burns prior to master strike or dispatch.

 

Love Guardian enough to roll a Juggy. Leveling a advanced prototype PT and vengeance Jug playing on the rest system. Love both of their playstyles and beginning to make the decision to main empire for visual appeals and less LS/DS polarity.

[ipagex]

I'm curious what itemization priorities y'all are using. Especially what crit rating everyone aims for. I've switched my guardian from 28% crit (~500 rating) to full power/accuracy/surge holding my accuracy at 99-100% with ~65% surge and unknown power. I showed a remarkable improvement over the crit stacking, enough to question if having 0 crit rating should be a goal.

 

I can tell you that my bank is full of mods, enhancements and relics from all my tests, and the conclusion i came to is that crit at 0 rating should be everyone's goal. Most of the top juggs on my server have an implant or something that gives them about 100 crit rating, but i'm not sure that's the right call. A few % higher crit is not going to make that much of a difference because crit is too big of a wild factor with the current cap, you just can't count on it.

[Arlon_Nabarlly]

I'm curious what itemization priorities y'all are using. Especially what crit rating everyone aims for. I've switched my guardian from 28% crit (~500 rating) to full power/accuracy/surge holding my accuracy at 99-100% with ~65% surge and unknown power. I showed a remarkable improvement over the crit stacking, enough to question if having 0 crit rating should be a goal.

 

Also, I'm sure a may be doing my rotation wrong as I deviate, sometimes substantially, from how others abilities are lining up. My rotation is based on plasma brand's activation and syncing that with overhead strike immediately after into rush and finally to sunder in order to recoup focus. Master strike is priority at the start only then always refreshing bleeds/burns prior to master strike or dispatch.

 

Love Guardian enough to roll a Juggy. Leveling a advanced prototype PT and vengeance Jug playing on the rest system. Love both of their playstyles and beginning to make the decision to main empire for visual appeals and less LS/DS polarity.

 

I have about 285 Crit rating, The DR curve starts around 300 so I try and stay below that.

Accuracy is about 99.42%

Surge at like 73% or so.

 

I can tell you that my bank is full of mods, enhancements and relics from all my tests, and the conclusion i came to is that crit at 0 rating should be everyone's goal. Most of the top juggs on my server have an implant or something that gives them about 100 crit rating, but i'm not sure that's the right call. A few % higher crit is not going to make that much of a difference because crit is too big of a wild factor with the current cap, you just can't count on it.

 

I've heard 0 crit for rage, but never for vengeance, I may have to try it.

[arkitip]

I run with 104 crit rating.

[Zaxem]

yeah i'm running with 0 crit as well when i tried some crit think i had about 250 or so not sure i lost about 50-100 dps or so

[ssfish]

Around 200 crit for me at the moment.

[Arlon_Nabarlly]

Yeah it definately seems like aiming for 0 crit is the way to go. I went from 250 to 57 tonight, to do this I had to switch to a lower main stat implant, switch one mod to a 69 version and switch another to the high end version. Even with those 3 hits the net result was about 50 more DPS.

 

New best parse 2787: http://www.torparse.com/a/300770/1/0/Damage+Dealt

[lazerxxx]

I was just about to ask the top parsing vengeance juggs what their opinion on crit is. Some just answered a few posts ago maybe some more will do. I run at the moment 52 crit.

Another question, what do you think is the bis relic setup for raiding and for parsing?

[ssfish]

I was just about to ask the top parsing vengeance juggs what their opinion on crit is. Some just answered a few posts ago maybe some more will do. I run at the moment 52 crit.

Another question, what do you think is the bis relic setup for raiding and for parsing?

 

Now? Kell Dragon Boundless + Kell Dragon Serendipitous

 

As far as currently realistic relics (since the above would theoretically require at least 1 DG kill but more likely 9 depending on how your guild does loot distribution), Underworld Serendipitous and either the DG Boundless or Underworld Boundless. I haven't done the math (or looked for someone that has) to determine which is the better in the end,

 

EWH might be a better choice for raids, depending on the fights and how efficient you are at timing your clicks.

Edited June 22, 2013 by ssfish