Assassin Deception is relatively the closest you'll get to Darth Maul in any current game. Let's go over what is offered by the class. You get a saberstaff/double-bladed Lightsaber. Seethe, modeled and animated directly from the final fight scene. A move titled "Maul" also taken from the scene in which Quigon gets unfortunately impaled. Character animations that, according to Bioware, were also scripted to model moves that Darth Maul would execute. Although, I do agree that the Shadow/Assassin line somewhat lost sights on the martial prowess it originally promised, it's still the best class/spec to play for those that want something Maul-esq.

I understand what you're saying, and you're correct. We don't want to be "like maras". My point though still stands as the dps capabilities should be balanced and the trees should change HOW that damage is applied. I used the sentinels because they were a very simple example, with dev response no less. As far as buffs are concerned I think it would be stupid to implement serious changes to the class until the crit-fix, though Madness does need something and like I was saying earlier I think a procable execute would perfectly fill that need.

The emphasis on keeping and properly maintaining our dots would still be there, and I'd make it a request to lessen how detrimental a dot falling off kills our dps. The request was largely to add a possible spike to our dps, and break the monotony of Thrash-Thrash-Thrash etc until DF and dots need refreshing, with respect to Raze procs. Personally, I would enjoy a procable attack capable of spreading our dots to x5 targets, but I lack any proper info to provide a recommendation and it could be vastly OP. However, I could see that as a proper edge to pvp madness sins doting several people simultaneously with one(or more) of our dots.

I agree. What's more, if you read the sentinel questions/answers it doesn't seem Bioware is interested in dividing class trees into pvp/pve compatability. Sentinel is divided on HOW it does damage and balanced on that basis. Watchman = king of sustained and single target. Focus = queen of burst and aoe. Combat = a blending. More burst than Watchman(less sustained) and more sustained than Focus(less burst). Ideally this should transfer over all classes and to a certain extent I believe it does, it just needs some tuning for Assassins/Shadows. I think the biggest problems we face is our reliance on crit and RNG. I also think that as a class we should see what crit-fix Bioware has in mind, prior to shouting doomsday and shipping out. Do I think this makes the predicament we're in now ok? Surely not, we are currently an underdeveloped AC but we aren't broken beyond tuning. As for madness, I truly think allowing an execute proc would be a quick simple fix. Thrash has XX% to allow Execute to be refreshed and used no matter what health current target has. Dots could be tuned but this may be fixed when the crit-fix happens.

Purely speculative, but I wonder both how Elder Scrolls Online (ESO) will fair and exactly what it will do to our swtor community. I foresee EQ:Next also posing a threat to this games weakening playerbase. To clarify, I believe players are losing interest due to the disconnected attitude the devs have to class issues and the hubris expressed in the sorc/sage and vanguard/PT questions... I know we assassins/shadows are getting ready for a "perception problem" response which is ultimately laughable, though not funny at all.

This gives me a little hope that it CAN be done. I'm quite curious about their gearing strategy. No-crit? Crit to 180? Relics? SA is pretty think less but what about the damage process vs Boundless Ages? Fight by fight situational or is BA ahead enough that its generally the go-to regardless? I've seen what sin can do in pvp, but pve seems to nearly always be contested as to what the optimum gearing is.

Wait, what?!?! THIS IS MADNESS!! Although, gotta love the philosophy: If players say no one uses Madness because it's broken and not fun, break everything else more and force them to use madness. Working as intended. /pokefun

I fully agree. That arguement is used on Assassins and Shadows shamelessly and yet anyone that raids one can easily see that this arguement is just not valid. Do they have great execute phase? Yes. Is it worth the abysmal sustainable dps for the whole duration of the fight? Not hardly. Sadly, I don't hold out much hope that they'll be fixed anytime soon due to lack of factual insight from the devs. There seems too be a disconnect between us, the players, and the devs/balance PERSON. Perhaps with all the added income Cartel Market seems to add they could hire some more people to the balance portion.

Not only do I agree but I love your arguement and its portrayal. Though I would add that PT hybrid needs to be toned down and Pyrotech needs steroids. I say this because Bioware doesn't want hybrids to be viable but PT need to have 3 valid specs..not two and a half. Assassin dps legitimately pisses me the hell off. It is my most favorite class and there's nothing I enjoy more than playing it. Lethality Operative is a nice reprieve but I want my Assassin back! I don't want buffs with a heavy hand to make Assassins in XX spec FOTM, I just want to be competitive and assassins to be WANTED in pve content. I'd also love for them to have a useful (read: worth using, such as other classes) 51 ability rather than the current lolport.

You're either trolling or incredibly disconnected. If you're talking pvp I could see your reasoning, if you're talking pve ... Lolwut. PTs are very viable via hybrid and in some fights AP actually pulls ahead. Assassins are terribly broken, pve wise. When played perfectly madness is able to perform enough to stay several hundred dps behind. Assassins are in the worst spot in balance reformation, though I'd agree that pyro is not better by much except they have the option of hybrid.

I was going to hear your QQ out but then you said to roll a Sin. Are you oblivious to their current state as worst XX for XX? Seriously. Sure Pyro just added another nail to its coffin, but AP is presentable in OPS and situational via damage support for WZs and the tanking position this class is in is leagues better than the RNG death that Sins have. I've been playing both classes for some time, Assassin is pretty much a dead class. In pvp IF they get lucky RNG deception can deliver substantial damage, if they don't any new player with half a brain can take them out. Sadness (Madness) is worse off than your "sky-is-falling" pyro. So don't over dramatize. In closing, I'm quite excited to see how AP was made better, since I'm a big fan of 36 AP but currently strolling in 2/22/22. I hope to swap back to full AP soon as soon as the ap/hybrid gap closes a bit.

I agree with Feign. I'm currently leveling my marauder for serious raiding (wish I didn't hold out hope for so long). I have a geared GS, Guardian, Shadow, Assassin, and Powertech. All of these perform better than either my Shadow or Sin, in some cases the performance gain in switching is exponentially better, Guardian/GS. Here's what I want for Sins. First and foremost fix Shroud and Vanish. These have been buggy since day 1 and I remember personally reporting these things not working correctly in Beta. The fact that the development team(s) can't put 2 and 2 together is simply a travesty. Secondly, all of our specs need to perform to the level intended. As raid leaders will tell you bringing along an Assassin is most often a choice of desperation. No one WANTS us, some may take us but we are not wanted. The crit nerf really nuked deception, if we sacrifice children and puppies to the RNG gods then we have a chance at being a huge threat for a few secs, if we don't get lucky we hit like a Prius vs a monster-truck. Madness (Sadness) is in even worse shape. It lacks the damage potential that's standard on other classes and has little to no burst. I agree that it needs tuning and a proc for free executes. Damage overall, in terms of aoe potential we are substantially eclipsed by every class, I would see reason in that if we were single target homicidal maniacs but that's just not the case at all. Thirdly, our gimmicky 51 ability was a real *** moment. I feel like the devs were really out of ideals of what to do with us and in order to get the expansion out the door they just threw **** together. I was truly hoping for a "Shadowstep" gap-closing ability. SOMETHING Assassin-like would have been amazing, but something clunky like this that provides little to zero pve benefit is horrendous. Does it work in pvp? Sure, still gimmicky as hell but it does have a functional purpose. In pve however it is useless, with exception going to tanks for their healing buff on it. It's truly a shame that we only get three questions to express our concerns, when we could have pages and volumes of things needing adjustments/buffs/retooling/etc. My respect to our class rep. There's some real work cutout for him.

I think the tanks could be in a worse spot and in some player reactions over-inflated, but I do think there is a RNG-content-blocking problem with their overall spikiness that BW has acknowledged. I think both Deception and Madness are viable for HM OPS, NiM I'm not sure. Are they behind the perceived curve? Likely. But is it the detriment that many complain about, I don't believe so. Madness and Deception are within acceptable limits of each other, in terms of actual output, and raiding wise within acceptable limits. Can other classes do it better/easier? Yeah, which is what I think needs to be tuned. Less reliance on simple/troublesome RNG and more on playerskill.

I run Madness quite heavily in 55hm pugs, due to pugs heals/tank being questionable at best. Upon discovering a solid healer and tank ill swap to Deception immediately, depending on the content of the fight (burst vs sustainability). My issue, upon many: RECKLESSNESS seems to repeatedly "miss its application" a majority of times. My accuracy is 99.6% melee, and every time I've noticed Recklessness not be properly applied has not been due to an actual missed attack. Most notably Death Field does not use the Recklessness as it should, DF doesn't miss it just doesn't trigger it in many of my applications. I've also seen Raze not proc it, sadly watching my Recklessness drop off without use. I do not see any of these problems repeated in Deception spec. Also, (insert general compliant about Madness having a complete lack of burst making it unreliable and a team handicap in pvp.)

57 crit rating is your target. No more. If you have 0 crit rating that's fine too, you'll only be losing ~3-4 dps. Stack power and surge while maintaining 99.5-100% accuracy.

I haven't seen many/any parses from pyro after 2.0. I have seen quite a few AP parses though, all with respectable numbers according to the current state of things. Personally, I think PT's damage is ok (not ****** or great) but it is painfully obvious that there's a significant gap between maras/sents/slingers/snipers. I understand that they'd need higher damage since all they can do is dps but I think the current gap compared to the rest is a bit obscene. I would love to see some good pyro parses. Ideally they'd be neck and neck with AP edging out on stdps and pyro winning in add heavy fights. I think Guardians and Juggs are a perfect example of this.

PT is vastly more mobile than Merc. Mercs are essentially a portable turret. Effective but mostly casted shots really hamper their mobility.

I'm curious what itemization priorities y'all are using. Especially what crit rating everyone aims for. I've switched my guardian from 28% crit (~500 rating) to full power/accuracy/surge holding my accuracy at 99-100% with ~65% surge and unknown power. I showed a remarkable improvement over the crit stacking, enough to question if having 0 crit rating should be a goal. Also, I'm sure a may be doing my rotation wrong as I deviate, sometimes substantially, from how others abilities are lining up. My rotation is based on plasma brand's activation and syncing that with overhead strike immediately after into rush and finally to sunder in order to recoup focus. Master strike is priority at the start only then always refreshing bleeds/burns prior to master strike or dispatch. Love Guardian enough to roll a Juggy. Leveling a advanced prototype PT and vengeance Jug playing on the rest system. Love both of their playstyles and beginning to make the decision to main empire for visual appeals and less LS/DS polarity.

This may have covered elsewhere but in the post and parse I've seen it came out best to have 57 crit rating for optimal dps in pve on infiltration. 57 crit was only a 3-4dps gain over 0 crit rating, but alas if we talk maximizing optimal dps there it is.

Now, I don't mean to burst your bubble, really I don't. I enjoyed your arguement of PT being worth it to take in raids, I'm leveling one now for pve, and I think all classes should have equal representation for raid slots however a major flaw in your latest arguement suggests that since you are top BH on torparse that means you are the top BH ingame. This is simply a false conclusion as torparse only caclulates and orders information that is posted to/on it. Meaning, I may walk into a HM TFB and perform admirably, hitting over 9k dps (for lawls) but torparse would NEVER know unless I posted it/uploaded it. Now I'm no saying you're not the better/more geared BH on torparse, I'm sayin you may have been allowed to arrive at a false conclusion.

I've noticed heavier traffic empire-side throughout the game. I guess I should have posted or fished over there first. Thanks!

My slinger just recently dinged 50. I got incredibly bored while leveling via old-sharpshooter, sabotuer save my slinger for me. I'm currently debating which spec I should go with at 50-55, and I want something that won't pose undue risks for my FPs or raids and is still adequately fun in solo dailies. ATM I'm full saboteur and enjoying the spec but could use some help gaining more dps. My priority currently is keep armor reducer and WS up> sc > sabo charge > ss > incendiary nade. Ofcourse using <30% shot whenever possible. So am I doing it wrong? I haven't tried the SS spec yet but will likely give it a try tonight after my shadow is done raiding. Apologies for not using all the correct terminology, currently at work and our computers don't enjoy gaming sites.

True story - I bought a game that was "Story Driven" to find out endgame is Carrot-Stick same as WoW, same as Rift in which I left both of those for some of the same reasons. The leveling in SWTOR far and widely exceeds other MMOs but endgame is the same stuff with different paint... Same as what I was saying above, EAWare is all about hype and how many customers they can con into buying their product. "SWTOR is gonna be fantastic! It's all Story-driven content with amazing polish" "That sounds awesome! What do you do at level cap?" "Well, it's like World of Warcraft except easier and with lightsabers!" ... "You guys are going to LOVE Rated Warzones in 1.2!" ... ... I actually remember the first thing I said after playing the "jesus patch", "This is it?". It seemingly did nothing..except give out pets and oddly 30days game time. And I suspect, with the way that the "free time" was implemented, that it had something to do with holding onto a customer for an extra 30 so they could pad the numbers. I don't know about all of you, but for my "free 30 days" I had to actually PAY for another month AFTER the date that it was supposed to go into effect. Suspicious methinks. This is just icing on the cake. SWTOR is simply not worth the money. EA is trying to turn this into a cash cow like Blizzard did to WoW. On a dead server? Pay us to get off.. (After the "free transfer" allotted time is over of course). GW2 is a one time payment, plus any labeled expansion packs, but after you buy it it's totally free to play! Mechwarrior Online - which looks incredibly well done is completely free with a moderate real-money shop similar to many F2Ps and they have already taken measures to prevent buy-to-win syndrome. If Bioware thinks raising the level cap is going to make matters better they need to wake up REAL quick. They have a rough time with class balance now, and with keeping up with new content (other than carrotstick raids). What makes you think an extra XX levels is going to smooth out the sea in order for this 'titanic' to float?

Which they didn't listen to... What do you think I meant by feedback? "Hey, how ya doin? Liking the game so far?" "No your game sux, needs moar dots!" Feedback, at least wanted feedback during ANY Beta is all about does it play/feel right? Do you feel like XX class is useful. Is content in XX zone too difficult, not difficult enough? Are nodes STILL underground or unclickable? Was it difficult to download and log in? Are loading screens too long? How is the server stability and/or server population?

The problem is they didn't listen to a majority of feedback in the Beta Tests.