The BattleZone! Round 1 Match 05: Qui-Gon Jinn vs. Plo Koon

[LadyKulvax]

Long time no see, friend.

 

Quite, busy life is busy as they say.

[Beniboybling]

Long time no see, friend.

It would seem that Vent has stolen her font. Nice to see you back with your old look Rayla.

 

But back to the battle, it would seem that Luke reflected Koon's whirlwinds with relative ease. While Jinn is no Luke Skywalker he is a powerful Jedi, and an adaptable one, and I doubt that defending against whirlwinds will tire him significantly. This is because it will take little physical exertion to defend against them, a Force barrier would suffice. All that it will tax is his 'Force banks' which he has plenty of, so I doubt it will have much effect on his overall performance.

 

Koon has lots of tricks, yes, but in the final accounting, all that matter is how effective they are.

[Aurbere]

It would seem that Vent has stolen her font. Nice to see you back with your old look Rayla.

 

But back to the battle, it would seem that Luke reflected Koon's whirlwinds with relative ease. While Jinn is no Luke Skywalker he is a powerful Jedi, and an adaptable one, and I doubt that defending against whirlwinds will tire him significantly. This is because it will take little physical exertion to defend against them, a Force barrier would suffice. All that it will tax is his 'Force banks' which he has plenty of, so I doubt it will have much effect on his overall performance.

 

Koon has lots of tricks, yes, but in the final accounting, all that matter is how effective they are.

 

I'm working on typing up the battle so everyone can see the confrontation between Koro Ziil and Luke.

[Wolfninjajedi]

It would seem that Vent has stolen her font. Nice to see you back with your old look Rayla.

 

But back to the battle, it would seem that Luke reflected Koon's whirlwinds with relative ease. While Jinn is no Luke Skywalker he is a powerful Jedi, and an adaptable one, and I doubt that defending against whirlwinds will tire him significantly. This is because it will take little physical exertion to defend against them, a Force barrier would suffice. All that it will tax is his 'Force banks' which he has plenty of, so I doubt it will have much effect on his overall performance.

 

Koon has lots of tricks, yes, but in the final accounting, all that matter is how effective they are.

 

Does Jinn know Force Barrier though?

[Beniboybling]

Does Jinn know Force Barrier though?

Force barrier was a universal and very basic power taught to all Jedi students, much like telekinesis. Trained to such an extent that it became instinctive. Given the fact that it can repel physical and energy attacks, I'm sure it would be able to defend against whirlwinds, as they are a manifestation of nature rather than a pure Force ability such as Electric Judgement. Which, for the record, he can likely block with his lightsaber with relative ease given that his former Padawan, Obi-Wan Kenobi, was able to do so against Dooku's lightning.

[Ventessel]

It would seem that Vent has stolen her font. Nice to see you back with your old look Rayla.

 

In my defense, she was using a dark purple font when I adopted this one. As they say, finders keepers.

 

But with regards to the battle, it would seem that Koon's sole chance of survival hinges on a few gimmicks that are useful in certain situations (fighting in space, manipulating the environment) but will not overwhelmingly change the tide of battle. The fact remains that Qui-Gon Jinn is the most talented student of Dooku, and a duelist on par with Mace Windu. He may not be the equal of Windu, but he is at least playing in the same league, which cannot be said of any other Jedi, save for perhaps Anakin and Obi-Wan at the peak of their abilities (and of course, Yoda).

[Wolfninjajedi]

Force barrier was a universal and very basic power taught to all Jedi students, much like telekinesis. Trained to such an extent that it became instinctive. Given the fact that it can repel physical and energy attacks, I'm sure it would be able to defend against whirlwinds, as they are a manifestation of nature rather than a pure Force ability such as Electric Judgement. Which, for the record, he can likely block with his lightsaber with relative ease given that his former Padawan, Obi-Wan Kenobi, was able to do so against Dooku's lightning.

 

However the Barrier also depends on the strength of the individual user, so who is to say just how long Jinn would be able to keep it up.

[Aurbere]

Quite, busy life is busy as they say.

 

Ha ha, yeah. Well, it's good to see you back.

 

It would seem that Vent has stolen her font. Nice to see you back with your old look Rayla.

 

But back to the battle, it would seem that Luke reflected Koon's whirlwinds with relative ease. While Jinn is no Luke Skywalker he is a powerful Jedi, and an adaptable one, and I doubt that defending against whirlwinds will tire him significantly. This is because it will take little physical exertion to defend against them, a Force barrier would suffice. All that it will tax is his 'Force banks' which he has plenty of, so I doubt it will have much effect on his overall performance.

 

Koon has lots of tricks, yes, but in the final accounting, all that matter is how effective they are.

 

The Hidden One tossed his head. It was not a gesture of anger; Luke felt the motion as a ripple in the Force. The air in the chamber responded, a wind springing up and roaring around the walls of the chamber, gaining speed and strength. It tattered the robes of the Kel Dors near the walls as it went. It veered from the wall over the throne and howled down at Luke, engulfing him, trying to drive him backward.

 

Luke gritted his teeth and rooted himself. Then, against the might of both wind and lightning, he took another step forward.

 

The Hidden One's eyes widened. His head rolled around on his shoulders, and the roar of air across Luke intensified. It tore at his robes causing them to stand out from his body, shudder, and snap in the wind.

 

Luke took another step forward. It was slow going, for the Hidden One's power was great, but Luke now felt sure in his footing and in his own strength.

 

Out of the corner of his eye, he saw Kel Dors retreating, some of them streaming out through the blast door, Ben waving them onward.

 

The Hidden One's face, flushed fully red, was contorted in a mask of anger. He flicked his fingers and the lightning ceased. He moved his now free hands in circular gestures. Luke felt the wind increase in ferocity. Most of it still whirled around around the chamber before battering at him, but some, a diverted flow, spun in a tight circle directly in front of the Hidden One. As Luke watched, that errant stream of air swallowed up dust from the floor and walls, defining its outlines as a miniature funnel cloud, a few centimeters wide at its base and broadening to two meters at the ceiling. It writhed like a mortally wounded serpent.

 

With a gesture, the Hidden One sent the whirlwind straight at Luke.

 

Luke lunged at it, visualizing it, wrenching at it with the Force. His exertion was like a physical blow as he stepped into it. He felt the wing intensify for a bare moment, and then his telekinetic attack flung the whirlwind free. It rocketed off to the side and hammered into a pillar to Luke's left.

 

Luke took another step forward. He was more than halfway to the Hidden One now. He deactivated his lightsaber. He could turn it on again swiftly enough if the Hidden One brought forth his lightning a second time.

 

The whirlwind moved from pillar to pillar as if leaping. When it was directly behind Luke, it lingered there. Luke kept hsi senses, both the physical ones and that of the Force, alert to his movements. It hammered at the pillar itself, and Luke could feel the permacrete mounting at the summit begin to crack.

 

The mounting at the base broke, too, and the pillar toppled toward Luke. He heard Ben's warning cry. He raised hiss left hand backward, using the same exertion he'd made a moment earlier against the whirlwing itself, and the pillar stopped, frozen in midfall. He gestured again and it reversed direction, toppling onto the empty floor.

 

And Luke took another step forward.

 

Taken from Outcast- page 290-292

 

Do remember that Koro Ziil is not noted as a physics expert. Which means that Plo Koon will be able to summon whirlwinds quicker and have greater control over them. Also these whirlwinds will begin taking in junk and stuff from the surrounding environment. Which equals more stuff to deal with.

 

Note that Luke Skywalker was physically struggling at first before fully rooting himself, and he even struggled to push through the intense winds.

 

And here's something else:

 

Luke, breathing hard from his exertions...

 

Taken from Outcast page 293

 

As you can see, fighting the whirlwinds produced by Koro Ziil were enough to make Luke tired.

 

Of course we can't compare Qui-Gon to Luke, but this is probably the best example of Alter Environment used in combat.

[Beniboybling]

Interesting, however I doubt that Koon would be able to produce winds of such velocity. Primarily because our insane Kel Dor friend here was clearly empowered by the dark side of the Force which no doubt amplified his abilities considerably. Koon will not have such an advantage. Nonetheless Koon and quite likely produce some powerful whirlwinds, yet Jinn is a powerful Force user and strong enough to resist them.

 

But as you said, it would leave Jinn physically depleted, and less likely to win an ensuing lightsaber duel. But then we have to ask ourselves, will Jinn give him the chance to alter the environment in the first place? Given his apparent skill with Ataru Koon might be able to throw a physical blow in their to stagger Jinn, then follow up with a Force push, giving him the necessary opportunity.

 

P.S. When Satele Shan defeated Malgus, did she use alter environment? It certainly looked it.

 

P.P.S Will Satele be facing off against Malgus? Could be an interesting matchup...

[Wolfninjajedi]

Looked to me more like a Force Push, with the way she moved her hand and the subtle power coming from it, and the way it looked that Malgus was hit with force. Vader used the winds against Luke on Bespin, but it wasn't stated he was hit with a force merely just blown back.

 

Another large piece of machinery glanced off Luke’s body and crashed out the large window, letting in the screaming wind. Suddenly everything in the room was blown about, and the fierce wind lashed Luke’s body and filled the room with a bansheelike howl. And in the very center of the room, standing still and triumphant, was Darth Vader.

“You are beaten,” the Dark Lord of the Sith gloated. “It is useless to resist. You will join me or you will join Obi-Wan in death!”

As Vader spoke these words, a final piece of heavy machinery soared through the air, striking the young Jedi and knocking him through the broken window. Everything became a great blur as the wind carried him, tossing and rolling, until he managed to grab hold of a beam with one hand.

Edited April 17, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi

[Beniboybling]

Looked to me more like a Force Push, with the way she moved her hand and the subtle power coming from it, and the way it looked that Malgus was hit with force.

Mmmm, but then it looked like a stream of environmental energy was pushing Malgus back. Nor have we every seen a Force push, or even a Force wave materialise itself in such a manner (just compare it to Malgus' push) Perhaps it was a combination.

 

EDIT: Then again, the Force pushes in TFU material are presented in a similar way. Although that stream of wind energy remains unique.

Edited April 17, 2013 by Beniboybling

[Wolfninjajedi]

Mmmm, but then it looked like a stream of environmental energy was pushing Malgus back. Nor have we every seen a Force push, or even a Force wave materialise itself in such a manner (just compare it to Malgus' push) Perhaps it was a combination.

 

EDIT: Then again, the Force pushes in TFU material are presented in a similar way. Although that stream of wind energy remains unique.

 

It looked to me that, it was just the work from the force push. If you see Malgus fly back, you can see a good deal of dirt and the like go with him too. But meh, it could have been

 

/shrug.

 

I guess will never know, unless someone points it out. Or it could have just been added flare for the trailer.

Edited April 17, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi

[Aurbere]

Interesting, however I doubt that Koon would be able to produce winds of such velocity. Primarily because our insane Kel Dor friend here was clearly empowered by the dark side of the Force which no doubt amplified his abilities considerably. Koon will not have such an advantage. Nonetheless Koon and quite likely produce some powerful whirlwinds, yet Jinn is a powerful Force user and strong enough to resist them.

 

But as you said, it would leave Jinn physically depleted, and less likely to win an ensuing lightsaber duel. But then we have to ask ourselves, will Jinn give him the chance to alter the environment in the first place? Given his apparent skill with Ataru Koon might be able to throw a physical blow in their to stagger Jinn, then follow up with a Force push, giving him the necessary opportunity.

 

P.S. When Satele Shan defeated Malgus, did she use alter environment? It certainly looked it.

 

P.P.S Will Satele be facing off against Malgus? Could be an interesting matchup...

 

Plo Koon will most likely use the Force to keep Jinn back so he can summon the whirlwinds. A solid Force push would do nicely. Plus, as we know, Qui-Gon Jinn is a physical fighter and rarely uses his Force abilities in combat, and whenever he does, he usually drops his guard to do it.

 

So Plo Koon can repel Jinn and summon fierce whirlwinds that will physically drain Jinn.

 

I don't think Satele used Alter Environment. It was most likely a telekinetic blast of immense force (it did some heavy damage to the mountain). We do see Force Pushes shown that way in several instances. The Jedi Consular gets many 'visible' Force attacks. The Jedi Knight and Sith Warrior's Force push has a small visual effect. And the Force pushes seen in TFU have a visual effect.

 

It's most likely visual effects and eye candy. Because we see Kao Cen Darach's Push have a visual effect in 'Return.'

 

As to if Satele and Malgus end up facing each other. It is unlikely, given the layout of the bracket. But I have been making changes due to my own predictions of each match. So you never know.

[Selenial]

Mmmm, but then it looked like a stream of environmental energy was pushing Malgus back. Nor have we every seen a Force push, or even a Force wave materialise itself in such a manner (just compare it to Malgus' push) Perhaps it was a combination.

 

EDIT: Then again, the Force pushes in TFU material are presented in a similar way. Although that stream of wind energy remains unique.

Dont read too much into it, these cinematics were designed to be visually appealing and stunning.

I'm not saying dismiss it completely, just don't read into it like every detail was inspected by leland che

Edited April 19, 2013 by Selenial

[Selenial]

double post Edited April 17, 2013 by Selenial

[Beniboybling]

Plo Koon will most likely use the Force to keep Jinn back so he can summon the whirlwinds. A solid Force push would do nicely. Plus, as we know, Qui-Gon Jinn is a physical fighter and rarely uses his Force abilities in combat, and whenever he does, he usually drops his guard to do it.

 

So Plo Koon can repel Jinn and summon fierce whirlwinds that will physically drain Jinn.

 

I don't think Satele used Alter Environment. It was most likely a telekinetic blast of immense force (it did some heavy damage to the mountain). We do see Force Pushes shown that way in several instances. The Jedi Consular gets many 'visible' Force attacks. The Jedi Knight and Sith Warrior's Force push has a small visual effect. And the Force pushes seen in TFU have a visual effect.

 

It's most likely visual effects and eye candy. Because we see Kao Cen Darach's Push have a visual effect in 'Return.'

 

As to if Satele and Malgus end up facing each other. It is unlikely, given the layout of the bracket. But I have been making changes due to my own predictions of each match. So you never know.

Fancy visuals aside, what struck me was the fact that Maglus seemed to be struggling against a stream of fierce winds streaming out from Satele's hands, which could suggest some kind of Force whirlwind, Force push simply doesn't produce those kinds of effects. While the fancy blue stuff was likely just as you say, I think the winds may have been something more.

 

As for the battle, I'm still unsure and perhaps unconvinced that Koon can chain Force based attacks into his lightsaber form, when defending against a relentless Ataru assault from Jinn. However given his supposed proficiency with Ataru, we can assume a physical blow such as a kick would be effective.

[Aurbere]

Fancy visuals aside, what struck me was the fact that Maglus seemed to be struggling against a stream of fierce winds streaming out from Satele's hands, which could suggest some kind of Force whirlwind, Force push simply doesn't produce those kinds of effects. While the fancy blue stuff was likely just as you say, I think the winds may have been something more.

 

As for the battle, I'm still unsure and perhaps unconvinced that Koon can chain Force based attacks into his lightsaber form, when defending against a relentless Ataru assault from Jinn. However given his supposed proficiency with Ataru, we can assume a physical blow such as a kick would be effective.

 

It's interesting to consider, but I don't think we can know for sure. You're most likely correct, but, again, I don't know for sure.

 

Cosidering Plo Koon is master of hand-to-hand combat, a physical strike is possible.

 

Also, something I saw in 'The Sith Hunters' Plo Koon managed in a good strike to Savage's leg, despite being under pressure from Savage's fierce assault.

[Beniboybling]

Cosidering Plo Koon is master of hand-to-hand combat, a physical strike is possible.

 

Also, something I saw in 'The Sith Hunters' Plo Koon managed in a good strike to Savage's leg, despite being under pressure from Savage's fierce assault.

Oh well in that case (don't say it you yo-yoing freak!) Koon wins.

 

Also it seems that Koon is a master of telekinesis and can move objects without even looking at them, so I'd assume like Darth Vader he can utilize this skill in the midst of combat, giving him further possibilities to make some distance and wear Jinn down.

[Aurbere]

Oh well in that case (don't say it you yo-yoing freak!) Koon wins.

 

Also it seems that Koon is a master of telekinesis and can move objects without even looking at them, so I'd assume like Darth Vader he can utilize this skill in the midst of combat, giving him further possibilities to make some distance and wear Jinn down.

 

Well, we'll find out. I think I'll make the decision soon. After considering everything presented, of course.

[marcelo_sdk]

Well, we'll find out. I think I'll make the decision soon. After considering everything presented, of course.

 

Any clues for the next combat?

[Aurbere]

Any clues for the next combat?

 

I'll provide the hint after I make the decision.

 

That and I'm not sure who will be fighting next. I've been mixing up the order so you all don't know who is fighting who in round two.

[Aurbere]

I'm getting close to the final announcement. If you have anything more to say to sway my decision, do so now.

[Ventessel]

I think that as skilled and powerful as Plo Koon is, Qui-Gon is stronger.

 

Remember, this is the Jedi who was so in tune with the Force that he rediscovered the method for becoming one with the Force and still communing with other Jedi. He was only killed by one of the most talented Sith Assassins ever trained, who had to plan carefully and lay a trap that exploited the advantages of Juyo over Ataru in tight confines.

 

Qui-Gon respected Plo Koon, who was a Jedi Council member and skilled duelist, but that does not mean that he is by any means a match for the superb swordsmanship of Qui-Gon. Count Dooku and Yoda considered Qui-Gon to be one of their greatest students, and Qui-Gon could go toe-to-toe with Mace Windu, a feat only ever matched by Yoda himself. Qui-Gon's training produced Obi-Wan Kenobi, himself possibly one of the Order's greatest swordsmen. Even in his later years, Obi-Wan still retained certain aspects of Qui-Gon's unique variant of Ataru.

 

Qui-Gon's strength in the Force is tremendous, although his focus on the Living Force leads him to allow the Force to act passively through him rather than trying to outwardly control it. This makes him a fluid and lethal combatant, able to react quickly and easily to changing circumstances and stay cognizant of his surroundings.

 

Plo Koon's ability to alter the environment would give him a small advantage, but his attacks will not prove lethal. Qui-Gon's powerful connection to the Force will allow him to weather these attacks, and while it does not take tremendous effort to affect small changes in the environment, using energy that is present in waves or storms, conjuring whirlwinds out of thin air will be taxing, and wear down Plo Koon.

 

Qui-Gon's superior mobility and ability to adapt to the surroundings will enable him to press the attack and drive Plo Koon back, preventing him from exploiting his unique Force Powers to full effect. Even if he gets off an unarmed attack on Qui-Gon, that does not mean he will be able to disengage easily.

 

Ataru specializes in fighting a single adversary, perfect for this situation. Qui-Gon had difficulty re-engaging Maul because of the narrow platforms and the fact that Maul used Obi-Wan as a shield of sorts to keep Qui-Gon away. There will be no such obstructions here, and Qui-Gon will be able to leap straight back into the fight with Plo Koon, hounding him until he slices through the Kel Dor's defenses.

 

It will be a memorable duel, no doubt, but Plo Koon will be playing for time all along, and eventually his luck will run out and Qui-Gon's masterful swordsmanship will win out.

[tunewalker]

Of course its biased, like he says its his opinion. Not G-Canon fact. The opening thread is merely a means by which Aurbere can convey his initial opinions on the debate, and give it some direction and structure. Not only does this avoid "Jinn wins because he kicks butt" -esque comments but allows Aurbere to give his two cents (although worth much more than that) before the debate begins so he does have to actively involve himself later on and seem biased. And I'm sure that once the debate is up, Aurbere will take into account all the arguments made in this thread before coming to a reasoned decision.

 

Nonetheless you make some good points. And I agree Plo Koon will have to work for his victory, tiring Jinn out by simply holding out isn't going to cut it. I think if Koon could bring his Alter Environment to bear it could be a boon to his success.

 

i'd like to note that the only reason i mentioned the some what biased looking origin post is because i have been following this series and when aubere introduced the fighters and the setting in all of those past fights it seemed clear that he was at an impass as to who would win and truelly thought it could go either way as both characters had strengths and weaknesses both having an advantage over the other in difference catagories yet here was the first time when it seemed like there was a clear cut victor before the debate even started as qui-gon had the advantage in nothing, seemed like a bit of a unfair match up for a first round combat when if you knew little about the characters the intro to them at the start just leaves people asking, "why would you even put these 2 together from the sounds of it qui-gon doesnt stand a chance."

[LadyKulvax]

He's Liam Neeson, he hunted wolves in random forests then saved 1200 jews under the alias Schindler, he waited and trained Batman went into the future and saved post-apocalyptic Washington DC then after using mothership zeta went and trained Obi-Wan Kenobi and found the Chosen One, becoming one with the force he turned into Zeus and now he appears sometimes as a lion in wardrobes via England or as the anti-hero Darkman.

 

Grand Master Luke Skywalker? Lol l2Neeson.

Edited April 18, 2013 by LadyKulvax