In your opinion, which is the worst pvp class in 2.0?

[NogueiraA]

As the title says, which is the weakest class in 2.0 for you?

[biowareftw]

As the title says, which is the weakest class in 2.0 for you?

 

DPS scoundrel/op. Why? Shadow/sin infiltration is better in just about every way possible and can kill the scoundrel/op without losing any health. When one stealth class counters another stealth class and that class has no counter? The other stealth class becomes useless.

 

I play both classes. I may stop playing scoundrel all together.

 

When I see a scoundrel defending on my shadow, it is a free kill and my node. If it is the other way around and I am defending? The scoundrel is dead even with an opener (and that is the only opener he will ever get if I know he is there and also use improved stealth).

 

Scoundrel/op may be the only class that is just useless in 2.0 as anything but a healer, and sages/sorcs are looking much better at that to be honest.

 

Best class? Shadow/sin multiple specs. Then sniper. Then a bunch lumped in together, with sorc/sage prob being the best dps/heal hybrid.

[klham]

It's hard to tell with the current state of bolster, but I think a lot of the pre-2.0 criticism of Commando/Merc still holds, notwithstanding some quality-of-life improvements. Carrying the huttball has become a little more feasible for us and we suck just a tad less at kiting. But we're still stuck spamming grav round to get the proc'd reset on Full Auto (45% talented, but sometimes feels like less), with nothing to do in between GR when we're on our secondary rotation. Could probably put Electronet on a shorter cooldown. Its effectiveness is all over the place right now. Edited April 13, 2013 by klham

[biowareftw]

It's hard to tell with the current state of bolster, but I think a lot of the pre-2.0 criticism of Commando/Merc still holds, notwithstanding some quality-of-life improvements. Carrying the huttball has become a little more feasible for us, however, and we suck just a tad less at kiting.

 

I don't know man. Commando/Mercs can put up some serious damage and that heavy armor is helping against this burst. They are not bad in group play at all.

 

1 v 1? Yeah they suck.

[Jherad]

I don't know man. Commando/Mercs can put up some serious damage and that heavy armor is helping against this burst. They are not bad in group play at all.

 

1 v 1? Yeah they suck.

 

Heh. Heavy Armor. In PvP.

 

 

Great against bad pugs I guess. I think we've improved a lot, but.... So has everyone else. A lot. We're more competitive now damage wise, but I'm not seeing a reason to bring one over say a sniper for damage, or a op/sage for heals.

 

I can usually put out bigger total damage than a sniper, but my burst is waaaaaay lower. It's not effective damage really.

Edited April 13, 2013 by Jherad

[klham]

Yes, the damage is better, and I'm winning a bit more 1 v 1, but doing so still requires near "ideal" conditions. No room for mistakes. I have to get it perfect and my opponent needs to mess up somehow. Then I have a chance.

[biowareftw]

Heh. Heavy Armor. In PvP.

 

 

Great against bad pugs I guess. I think we've improved a lot, but.... So has everyone else. A lot.

 

Welp. Least you aren't getting hit for 10 k mauls by my shadow. I mean it takes like 10 seconds to kill you (if you pop all your defensive cooldowns). Other classes not so much lol

 

The 51 point talent is VERY nice for the commando/merc if you haven't got it yet and makes the class much better in certain 1 v 1's.

[cashogy_reborn]

I don't know man. Commando/Mercs can put up some serious damage and that heavy armor is helping against this burst. They are not bad in group play at all.

 

1 v 1? Yeah they suck.

 

heavy armor is not an advantage. its 4-5% more mitigation than medium, ~10% more than light (but light armor has +5% more defense chance, so it balances out)

 

mando/merc is fine for regs. this has been known since PTS.

 

what is unknown is how it plays in RWZ against good players. having faced a couple of decent premades in regs, and not been totally slaughtered, im leaning towards it may be possible to not be a massive burned on a RWZ team. but that is just a hunch based on a very small sample size of results.

 

time will tell. and i wouldnt say there is one class that has been easiest for me to kill so far. if i had to pick a class, it would be other mando/mercs. the bads ones get interrupted and go "duurrrrrrrrr now what", yet also seem to forget they can interrupt me back. lol

[Dissentus]

Weird, I'm consistently in the top of damage and killing blows on my operative. It actually seems fairly balanced atm, but everyone is still adjusting and such. I'd give it a few weeks at level 55 pvp, before I'd make a call for sure.

[biowareftw]

Weird, I'm consistently in the top of damage and killing blows on my operative. It actually seems fairly balanced atm, but everyone is still adjusting and such. I'd give it a few weeks at level 55 pvp, before I'd make a call for sure.

 

Oh I top dmg often on my scoundrel. Problem? I double that on the shadow/sin while also throwing out protection.

 

So in games where there are no shadows? The class is ok. In games with a good shadow/sin (most are horrible), you are totally screwed as far as the ninja/defense game, which makes the class pointless to play over the shadow/sin.

 

I have only seen one sin worth a damn on my server (digitalbobby) and I have as much chance against him on my scoundrel as he would on a op against my shadow.

 

Scoundrel/op needs something "anti shadow/sin", because protection > self heals. If both classes put out the same dps every game (they don't shadow/sin is higher), the shadow sin is still better. Adding in that they completely stomp a scoundrel/op only furthers the gap. Not to mention the new anti stealth sniper talent screws over op/scoundrels much more then sin/shadow, whom can get popped out of stealth and still kill you quicker then any class.

Edited April 13, 2013 by biowareftw

[TheronFett]

Wish I could comment with more experience in 2.0. Truth is, after taking a break for several months, I came back last week and deleted most of my toons (had 8 classes @ 50). I've been playing w/ my Annihilation Marauder and Shieldtech Powertech and both are just fine. I'm actually impressed with some of the new utility for tanks in warzones.

 

From what I've seen, it seems like most classes are doing okay with the exception of Merc/Commando. At this point, that class is beyond saving.

[AMKSED]

Vigilance Guardian. Something about it just doesn't seem right.

[biowareftw]

Wish I could comment with more experience in 2.0. Truth is, after taking a break for several months, I came back last week and deleted most of my toons (had 8 classes @ 50). I've been playing w/ my Annihilation Marauder and Shieldtech Powertech and both are just fine. I'm actually impressed with some of the new utility for tanks in warzones.

 

From what I've seen, it seems like most classes are doing okay with the exception of Merc/Commando. At this point, that class is beyond saving.

 

Good to see PT tanks got some love.

[Racter]

DPS scoundrel/op. Why? Shadow/sin infiltration is better in just about every way possible and can kill the scoundrel/op without losing any health. When one stealth class counters another stealth class and that class has no counter? The other stealth class becomes useless.

 

I play both classes. I may stop playing scoundrel all together.

 

When I see a scoundrel defending on my shadow, it is a free kill and my node. If it is the other way around and I am defending? The scoundrel is dead even with an opener (and that is the only opener he will ever get if I know he is there and also use improved stealth).

 

Scoundrel/op may be the only class that is just useless in 2.0 as anything but a healer, and sages/sorcs are looking much better at that to be honest.

 

Best class? Shadow/sin multiple specs. Then sniper. Then a bunch lumped in together, with sorc/sage prob being the best dps/heal hybrid.

 

Deception has got to be toned down or concealment buffed. I still win on my op but for the exact reason you mentioned, most sins on our server are awful. No sin spec should be better at concealment than concealment, and certainly not by the huge margin it is.

 

Out of my classes I have to say combat/carnage feels like a total joke, to the point that I've shelved my Mara entirely and can only just tolerate my sentinel as focus or watchmen. I have been playing the hell out of my op and loving it other than the whole deception situation.

 

Just to be clear, I have a sin too. Just less fun than operative imo

Edited April 13, 2013 by Racter

[biowareftw]

Deception has got to be toned down or concealment buffed. I still win on my op but for the exact reason you mentioned, most sins on our server are awful. No sin spec should be better at concealment than concealment, and certainly not by the huge margin it is.

 

Out of my classes I have to say combat/carnage feels like a total joke, to the point that I've shelved my Mara entirely and can only just tolerate my sentinel as focus or watchmen. I have been playing the hell out of my op and loving it other than the whole deception situation.

 

Just to be clear, I have a sin too. Just less fun than operative imo

 

Yeah, concealment could use some dmg mitigation to make up for the loss of recuperate running all the time, or the cooldown needs to be lowered BIGTIME, and shield probe needs buffed for concealment/op. I love how people say sin/shadow is cloth. No we are not cloth. We have a minimum of 12 seconds of 25 percent dmg reduction that we can use(back to back blackout). The cooldown is always up when we leave stealth, or even if we get opened up from stealth.

 

In addition, medium is 5 percent better then cloth against physical attacks only. I have 8 percent mitigation against EVERYTHING (which is way superior to medium armor) running at all times on my shadow after a few attack (which I will always get). In addition 15 percent more armor fits in the spec so we almost have medium armor to begin with.

 

Added to all that my pvp trinket is 1.5 minutes, I have more burst WITHOUT an opener, and I can stop ALL scoundrel/op dmg, while they can only stop my maul, which I am guaranteed at least one in the fight. I can still hit them for over half their health in 2 globals with breach/project with a 10 yard range. This would be like my frag grenade hitting for 11 k against their shield (which makes them immune to it, as well as freakin everything else)...

 

Maul has no cooldown and you can proc 2 10 k's vs cloth. My scoundrel? 12 second cooldown on backblast? LOL?

 

So lets see. More burst, 33 percent more mitigation, not tied to an opener, a 15 second mes that allows me to always get off a maul, prevent a ravage from a carnage marauder, oh yeah and I can throw people off bridges and instagib them and have ZERO counter.

 

Seems fair...

 

EDIT. I also forgot they have PASSIVE 30 percent aoe mitigation (which includes things like smash), as well as a shield to block attacks that I never even have to use...cus people are dead by then and I am at full health lol. Bout the only time I use it and save it for is to solo defend 5 people trying to open a door/node, while i spam aoe. Added to all these balance shenanigans I can be a hero and carry just with taunts, which save my teams/healers @$@. As a scoundrel if I attempt to cast a 2.5 second heal (LOL), a) it sucks. b) I self kite myself from my kill target and prevent stealth. I think I choose the instant cast taunt on someone I am killing in 5 seconds anyways...

 

Anyone playing a scoundrel/op over a shadow.sin at this point deserves a title (masochist).

Edited April 13, 2013 by biowareftw

[Quantemoq]

In addition, medium is 5 percent better then cloth against physical attacks only. (

 

i'm sorry to be a nazi about that.

but there are no "physical attacks" , nor is there "physical damage".

 

there are only force/tech and ranged/melee attacks.

and kinetic/energy and internal/elemental damage sources.

 

armor protects against kinetic/energy damage which is dealt by about 60-70% of all attacks (unless it is a powertech).

[Otrorto]

Tanks. Why?: running naked make u loose ur armour dmg reduction.

 

Having some bad times with Assasin, but is funny to use the frontal Maul, thats true

[Otrorto]

i'm sorry to be a nazi about that.

but there are no "physical attacks" , nor is there "physical damage".

 

there are only force/tech and ranged/melee attacks.

and kinetic/energy and internal/elemental damage sources.

 

armor protects against kinetic/energy damage which is dealt by about 60-70% of all attacks (unless it is a powertech).

 

There are Physical Attacks, but in PvE only

[tomofoureleven]

 

 

Yeah, concealment could use some dmg mitigation to make up for the loss of recuperate running all the time, or the cooldown needs to be lowered BIGTIME, and shield probe needs buffed for concealment/op. I love how people say sin/shadow is cloth. No we are not cloth. We have a minimum of 12 seconds of 25 percent dmg reduction that we can use(back to back blackout). The cooldown is always up when we leave stealth, or even if we get opened up from stealth.

 

In addition, medium is 5 percent better then cloth against physical attacks only. I have 8 percent mitigation against EVERYTHING (which is way superior to medium armor) running at all times on my shadow after a few attack (which I will always get). In addition 15 percent more armor fits in the spec so we almost have medium armor to begin with.

 

Added to all that my pvp trinket is 1.5 minutes, I have more burst WITHOUT an opener, and I can stop ALL scoundrel/op dmg, while they can only stop my maul, which I am guaranteed at least one in the fight. I can still hit them for over half their health in 2 globals with breach/project with a 10 yard range. This would be like my frag grenade hitting for 11 k against their shield (which makes them immune to it, as well as freakin everything else)...

 

Maul has no cooldown and you can proc 2 10 k's vs cloth. My scoundrel? 12 second cooldown on backblast? LOL?

 

So lets see. More burst, 33 percent more mitigation, not tied to an opener, a 15 second mes that allows me to always get off a maul, prevent a ravage from a carnage marauder, oh yeah and I can throw people off bridges and instagib them and have ZERO counter.

 

Seems fair...

 

EDIT. I also forgot they have PASSIVE 30 percent aoe mitigation (which includes things like smash), as well as a shield to block attacks that I never even have to use...cus people are dead by then and I am at full health lol. Bout the only time I use it and save it for is to solo defend 5 people trying to open a door/node, while i spam aoe. Added to all these balance shenanigans I can be a hero and carry just with taunts, which save my teams/healers @$@. As a scoundrel if I attempt to cast a 2.5 second heal (LOL), a) it sucks. b) I self kite myself from my kill target and prevent stealth. I think I choose the instant cast taunt on someone I am killing in 5 seconds anyways...

 

Anyone playing a scoundrel/op over a shadow.sin at this point deserves a title (masochist).

 

Well I'll start by saying that yes I do believe that deception beats concealment. But not anywhere near the margin you make out. I'll just try and list all the things concealment has over deception.

 

1.Opener, our opener hits as hard as a Maul, stuns the target and additionally applies a super hard hitting dot

2. Roll. We have a spamable roll which makes us at least if not more mobile than deception, the roll will also cleanse us of everything 50% of the time

3.30m. Assassins can't do anything outside of 10m (yes they can use recklessnessforce lightning but that's every 1minute at most). Operatives can use use a decent dot, aoe orbital and grenades, and free attack.

4. 8seconds AOE mezz

5. 30 second cool down on their 4second stun.

6.Orbital strike and AOE, deception has notably weak aoe

7. We have a root attached to our slow (roots are unaffected by resolve)

8. Concealment has better stealth detection (we get a +2 talent with +2 defence too)

9. Cleanse on a 5 second cool down

10. Off heals (not very useful but we can always mezz you and heal up or run around the corner and heal etc.)

11. We have an actual DOT (lots of uses for a dot)

12. Evasion, addmitidly this isn't as good as your shroud. But (very) situationally it can work better against different classes

13. We have less use for accuracy than you, therefore we can stack more alacrity than you

14. Offensive cool down granting us literally 10% more damage for 15seconds

 

I understand that you could probably think of many more points for deception, But Concealment is far from totally inferior to assassins. I would even say that 1v1 if I got the jump on a deception I would probably win

[klwn]

I feel like Madness Sorcs took a pretty big hit with the cast time on Whirlwind. there are many situations that I could handle before and are nearly impossible to handle now, and I have been playing this class and spec since day one (meaning December 13th 2011).

 

for example if I want to go straight to the other team's turret at the beginning of the game on Civil War, if it takes some time to kill the guy there (which happens quite often with a Madness Sorc with all the kiting/hiding you have to do and building the dps at the same time, also considering the ennemy will have all his defensive cooldowns available) and another one comes from mid to help him before he is dead... well, pre-2.0, I could just CC the second one to get me the few seconds I needed to finish the first one, and then I would most likely kill the second one and even if back up came before I could tag the turret, at least it was a massive delay for the ennemy team.

 

now, once there are two of them, it's pretty much over for me, except in a few situations like getting lucky on a few crits or easy procs on Force Ligthning.

 

more damage is useless if you lack control and utility. I'd rather lose 5% dps and get the instant CC back, which is a massive help on basically any map if you want to play the objectives and not just dps everyone.

 

I know you are supposed to cast Whirldwind while Polarity Shift is active, except that Polarity Shift's cooldown is twice as long... stupid.

Edited April 13, 2013 by klwn

[Racter]

Yeah, concealment could use some dmg mitigation to make up for the loss of recuperate running all the time, or the cooldown needs to be lowered BIGTIME, and shield probe needs buffed for concealment/op. I love how people say sin/shadow is cloth. No we are not cloth. We have a minimum of 12 seconds of 25 percent dmg reduction that we can use(back to back blackout). The cooldown is always up when we leave stealth, or even if we get opened up from stealth.

 

In addition, medium is 5 percent better then cloth against physical attacks only. I have 8 percent mitigation against EVERYTHING (which is way superior to medium armor) running at all times on my shadow after a few attack (which I will always get). In addition 15 percent more armor fits in the spec so we almost have medium armor to begin with.

 

Added to all that my pvp trinket is 1.5 minutes, I have more burst WITHOUT an opener, and I can stop ALL scoundrel/op dmg, while they can only stop my maul, which I am guaranteed at least one in the fight. I can still hit them for over half their health in 2 globals with breach/project with a 10 yard range. This would be like my frag grenade hitting for 11 k against their shield (which makes them immune to it, as well as freakin everything else)...

 

Maul has no cooldown and you can proc 2 10 k's vs cloth. My scoundrel? 12 second cooldown on backblast? LOL?

 

So lets see. More burst, 33 percent more mitigation, not tied to an opener, a 15 second mes that allows me to always get off a maul, prevent a ravage from a carnage marauder, oh yeah and I can throw people off bridges and instagib them and have ZERO counter.

 

Seems fair...

 

EDIT. I also forgot they have PASSIVE 30 percent aoe mitigation (which includes things like smash), as well as a shield to block attacks that I never even have to use...cus people are dead by then and I am at full health lol. Bout the only time I use it and save it for is to solo defend 5 people trying to open a door/node, while i spam aoe. Added to all these balance shenanigans I can be a hero and carry just with taunts, which save my teams/healers @$@. As a scoundrel if I attempt to cast a 2.5 second heal (LOL), a) it sucks. b) I self kite myself from my kill target and prevent stealth. I think I choose the instant cast taunt on someone I am killing in 5 seconds anyways...

 

Anyone playing a scoundrel/op over a shadow.sin at this point deserves a title (masochist).

 

Overload shot works through shroud. That's all we have though. Guy above me saying the gap is small is either a sin defending how op that **** is or very naive. HS hits as hard as maul? First, no it doesn't, not even close. Literally 5k difference from highest hit to highest hit. Second, maul can be used out of stealth and has no CD. So give us that for back stab or hidden strike. 10-11k hits, no CD, seems fair.

[Aelaias]

Vigilance Guardian. Something about it just doesn't seem right.

 

Say what?

Edited April 14, 2013 by Aelaias

[MarkXXIV]

any spec not wanted for rated pvp.

[Smuglebunny]

I just wanna say I am totally loving my lethality op post 2.0

 

Come out of stealth, hidden strike(then non knockdown kind), backstab, corrosive dart, corrosive grenade, shiv, cull, cull, cover, explosive probe, ovld shot til dead or shiv off cooldown. Most people don't survive the rotation. But um don't stun me or...yeah. But then I can just combat stealth and re open on ya. I like it better than concealment for now.

[ripamorame]

Welp. Least you aren't getting hit for 10 k mauls by my shadow. I mean it takes like 10 seconds to kill you (if you pop all your defensive cooldowns). Other classes not so much lol

 

The 51 point talent is VERY nice for the commando/merc if you haven't got it yet and makes the class much better in certain 1 v 1's.

[shadow Strike {812839740637184}] [ApplyEffect {836045448945477}: Damage {836045448945501}] (6175* energy {836045448940874} (769 absorbed {836045448945511})) <6175> 6k spammable mauls

[shadow Strike {812839740637184}] [ApplyEffect {836045448945477}: Damage {836045448945501}] (4893* energy {836045448940874}) <4893>

[Force Breach {964675424485376}] [ApplyEffect {836045448945477}: Damage {836045448945501}] (6029* internal {836045448940876}) <6029> thats 3 seconds 1 more second of a finisher im dead thats not 10 thats 4.

Play a merc upload a video then say the class is fine k.

Mercs will not be taking into rated they can do every roll sub par in pvp they are the worst class name a role they do that a class can't do better. Same combat log from my last post just as relevant.

Edited April 13, 2013 by ripamorame