Why??.. once again, PvP flag for the PvE player.

[fungihoujo]

JimG, instead of going after me, why don't you tell me WHY you would put a PvE quest target inside a PvP area? On a PvE server? Go ahead, give it your best shot.

 

It's not a pve quest- it brings you into a pvp area, so it's not a pve only quest.

 

In fact- does that quest even make you do pve at all? I thought you just ran around and took pictures of things- no mobs involved.

 

 

 

Also- little bit hysterical aren't we for having to spend a few moments in a pvp area then wait out a flag.

[Fantazm]

This would just verify yet again their empire bias, since it can only approached from the south by empire players.

 

Pretty much the same issue as with the Aim datacron in that area.

 

There's a tunnel from the Dune Sea to the south of the OD. Helpfully, it's not marked on your map though.

[Lugosi]

I'd like to speak to the "don't want to get flagged, don't go in there!" mentality:

 

It's stupid. I mean, honestly. If my cat drops a turd in one of the rooms in my house, I don't just stop going in there, I fix the problem. The OP has a great point in that placing a PvE objective in a PvP area doesn't magically interest me in PvP. Trust me, we haven't made it all the way to Makeb without knowing what, where, and how to PvP. When our choices are:

A.) try your best to hide and avoid angry patrols of 12-year-old gankers

B.) avoid the quest altogether

C.) join a PvP guild, play tons of warzones to get gear on par with the bored idiots waiting around for you, go in force, and hope it takes them long enough to rez for you to complete your completely unrelated objective

well, it's not too hard to see how that might get frustrating. The only people who are rewarded by forced PvP are those idiot gankers who find it fun to fight people who have no desire to fight them.

 

 

 

You CHOSE to have a cat. You didn't have to get one. So after the cat poops on the floor do you then proceed to call the pet store and complain that the cat isn't house broken and needs to be patched?

[Kane_Ren]

Guess there are plenty of PvP flamers posting, many of which don't even understand the PvE quests.

Its the seed hunting quest you pick up from makeb, you get directed to the den as well as the northern part of the dune sea. Yes, it is optional, (just like everything including uninstalling the game) but it is a lonq quest. I've been lucky on Harbinger, spent 2 hours gathering mods and stuff whilst flagged. There was even a point where I was the only pub and had 4 imps withing sight all looking for the seed. None of us kicked anything off, we all just kept looking.

 

Another day and it would all be different, all out ganking and baiting PvErs. kinda like what this thread has become.

[SystemProcess]

Guess there are plenty of PvP flamers posting, many of which don't even understand the PvE quests.

 

That's a pretty silly misconception, and I'd appreciate you didn't assist in degrading this thread with such statements. Everyone in this game has to quest to at least level 10 to PvP, so I'm fairly sure the concept of 'questing' is pretty understood by everyone. On top of that, leveling solely through PvP takes ages, and I'm sure most PvPers level with a mix of both questing and PvP. (Not all, of course!)

 

Another point I'd like to make is that Early Access isn't over, so a good portion of the population has yet to -go- to Makeb, thus the quest is probably unknown to them. All they see from this thread is people complaining about having to run into a contested zone to grab a quest item.

 

The suggestions given here by the people who don't see why it's a big deal are pretty legitimate, and in no point have I personally bashed on PvErs for not understanding how PvP works. Basically put, there are several ways around this one quest, and I'm sorry if none of those options appeal to you, but they -are- there.

[Blackavaar]

MMOs will always try to do things to lure/entice PvE players into PvP gameplay. Why? Because that what a lot of PvPers want, unprepared, easy pickings that they can pound into the ground and laugh at because it's oh so funny to cause others to be miserable.

 

[GadgetDon]

MMOs will always try to do things to lure/entice PvE players into PvP gameplay. Why? Because that what a lot of PvPers want, unprepared, easy pickings that they can pound into the ground and laugh at because it's oh so funny to cause others to be miserable.

 

 

Actually, I think it's more a case of content. PVP content, "Here's a spot, you two go fight in it". PVE content takes a lot more work. (And yes, I'm vastly understating the effort to create PVP content - but less than PVE, and it's more repeatable because it's the other players providing the variety.)

[Draxonfly]

Agree with the OP ..

 

It is frak'n stupid! ... hate hate hate it.. another one of them things to 'turn me off' from the game... geee!!

[Garanaga]

Also, not trying to **** on PvE players, but an argument can be made that you are not "forced" to enter a PvP zone at all. Daily quests are 100% optional and not required for any progression. You accept them and go where they direct you at your own discretion.

 

I play on a PvE server also, but if I get flagged doing an optional quest, that is the result of me choosing the option offered to me.

 

I do not think you realize this, but players are encouraged to do daily quests on a regular basis once done with leveling and such because that is a part of the end game content. You know when you are done leveling, you do your daily grind of flashpoints, daily quests, pvp if you so choose and now the achievements.

 

Like it or not, not everyone enjoys pvp but they do like to do as many of these optional quests as possible. It is just that unlike some, some people do not enjoy going into a pvp environment in order to complete a quest. I find no problem in it myself as I do enjoy pvp every now and again. However when I am questing in an area, and for instance I am playing a healer, I hate healing anyone who is flagged as that disrupts my questing and I have to wait a good 5 minutes for my flagged state to vanish. If I choose to be flagged fine, but being forced into being flagged, I do not like.

[Jinsali]

MMOs since the dawn of time have mixed PvE and PvP. Other than Class Story quests, no quests in the game are required to be done. If you really can't handle being PvP Flagged, don't do the quest.

 

ehhhh your wrong

 

Everquest, one of (if not) the first graphical MMORPGs completely separated PvP from PVE.

 

They had PVP only servers which meant everyone was flagged, but you couldn't do squat against anyone 8 levels or lower than you.

 

On their PvE servers you had to see a specific NPC (Priest of Discord) to change from PvE to PvP and it was permanent until you completed a series of quests (all of which were hidden in text chat from npc's), lodged a CS query to an in-game GM to reverse it (a lot of new players did it accidently) and wait maybe 4-5 hours or delete the character and start again.

[Jinsali]

It's not a pve quest- it brings you into a pvp area, so it's not a pve only quest.

 

In fact- does that quest even make you do pve at all? I thought you just ran around and took pictures of things- no mobs involved.

 

 

 

Also- little bit hysterical aren't we for having to spend a few moments in a pvp area then wait out a flag.

 

If a quest is a pvp quest..then it should warn you your going to be flagged, and flag you when you accept the quest then and there.

Edited April 13, 2013 by Jinsali

[TheIronMonkey]

For those who don't know : This is NOT a PvP quest. It is NOT a daily.

 

As part of the expansion you get a quest line (a set of quests that follow each other) called the Macrobinoculars. There are 9 quests, each with several objectives, all PvE. Except for ONE objective in ONE quest. Everything else is PvE, and then at the end there are two H4 (group content, NOT PvP). Enough info for now.

 

So, in the design of a quest series, with 9 components, each has 3 or 4 objectives, all PvE, over almost every single planet, you come up to this ONE objective that falls inside a PvP zone. ??? So there is the info needed.

 

Yes, it is optional, as playing the game is, etc.. enough said about that.

 

If the reasoning is : lets bring them in to try it, ehh... BIG fail BW. I hate it more now.

 

I made (or signed) a suggestion once : let me opt out of the PvP flag. If I have a setting to say "no PvP ever", and that locks me out of a quest, then so be it. But give me the choice to turn the flag thing off. It is simple. If that means I can't join some groups because someone is flagged, so be it.

 

Now, no "hysterics". It is a game. Everything is optional, even playing it, or posting on these forums. It is called feedback. We hope that by letting BW know what we don't like, they will consider it and maybe make the game better. I have supported this game since before launch. I want the game to do good and be full of players, all doing whatever makes them happy. So I will continue to let BW know what I don't like, and they can take it for what is worth. Customer feedback is part of every successful business process. If BW ignores their customers, the game will die. If BW takes advantage of the feedback, it might do better. I don't pretend it has to be the way I say. But do a search on "pvp flag". Get the picture.

 

Oh, and RP guys, I am not ignoring you, I just don't RP so I can't say anything intelligent about it. My respect.

[AngelCath]

Ehh, how hard can it be to get this?

 

You do NOT have to go into the PvP area to do this quest!

 

And no, you don't have to be empire to approach it from the south and get it from the outside.

 

The whole thread is a non-issue and yet we have 7 pages of rants about something that's not true.

[TheIronMonkey]

How hard is to get this : you don't have to read or post on this thread if you don't want to.

 

The issue is : why put a PvE quest target inside a PvP zone. WHY.

 

Can it be had from outside? Maybe. I tried Rep to do this and there was no way. But I haven't tried another toon since. The question still remains. Even if you can get around it, whats the point?? I just want BW to think this through and figure out that this DOES NOT bring PvE players to PvP. It does not. It annoys the heck out of many people, but has NO POSITIVE RESULT.

 

I can get around it. I got my quest done. And I will continue to do it even if I get flagged. But BW be aware, you continue to make illogical choices that annoy the heck out of the few subscribers you have left.

 

Where in the forum rules it says we can only post/talk about "real" issues or "real" bugs?? The forums are open to all to say what bothers you and for you to read it, or not.

[thomasbaxter]

"Since there is never anyone in the Outlaw Den, I never see this as an issue."

 

Ah but they will be back....and in greater numbers

 

 

TODO LIST:

Go and sit in outlaws den and just pick off other pve'ers for the craik

Edited April 15, 2013 by thomasbaxter

[wainot-keel]

Haven't gotten to that point in the quest yet but I'm not surprised they decided to do this again. It's their lazy attempt to provide something to the PvP crowd.

 

 

Yeah, too bad that something is unwilling, unprepared, unexperienced players. Easy kills for professional gankers.

[Daniel_Molloy]

Funny, I got it without flagging.

[Benfynyn]

Well, when I first commented in this thread I hadn't reached that point in the mission but now that I have I can comment on the specific concern.

 

As stated by others it is 100% achievable without getting flagged for PvP. I first did this on my Sorc and once I knew where it was it was very simple on my Trooper.

 

 

The location for the two items (one for the main Macrobinocular quest and the other for the GSI Daily) are visible from just outside the outlaw den on the Empire side.

 

Republic players can access this location without getting flagged by going to the Dune Sea then using the Bantha Drifts cave to get there. The entrance is along the eastern edge of the map about halfway down in the Sandpeople area.

 

 

It still seems like lazy attempt to get people to use that pvp area (and with your face in the macrobinoculars you're pretty much a sitting duck) but it's avoidable if you know where to go so at least that's something.

[DimmuJanKaarl]

I can verify that this can be done without entering the Outlaw's Den on a Republic toon (edit: because I did it myself):

 

 

You can either high-tail through Mos Anek and the other Imp areas; on my grade 3 speeder I only got knocked off once and quickly dropped aggro. You can also go around via the Dune Sea. As you enter the Outlaw's Den area, stay to the left walking through the bones/giant rib cage. You can see the transmitter with the naked eye just before you start to get the flag for PvP warning. If you start to get the warning, back off a few steps and look northeast-ish.

 

 

I will say that I also hate PvP with a passion. I don't usually comment about it because, for whatever reason, expressing my chosen play style incurs endless grief from PvP players. I don't personally understand the attitude about PvE'ers from PvP'ers. For some reason PvP'ers come across as extremely defensive and even go on the offensive towards PvE'ers that don't like to play PvP.

 

I will say this: I chose to play on a PvE server for a reason: I do not want to -- nor can I foresee ever wanting to -- play PvP. I could care less how other people choose to play and what their preferred play style is. However, I don't want PvP crammed down my throat. I stay out of the PvP mission/gear section on the fleet. I avoid PvP areas on the planets. I am not the only one who feels this way, as evidenced by posts in this thread and others. I therefore have an even more radical suggestion: get rid of open-world PvP on PvE servers. If people want to queue up for PvP matches like Huttball or whatever they play these days, fine; I could really care less and don't want to hear about it and do not seek nor involve myself in discussions regarding thus. But the fact that a PvP flag mechanism even exists on a PvE server makes no sense to me; is this that hard: if (server_type==PvE) {Disable_PvP_flag=TRUE} ? It therefore makes even less sense to me that a PvE mission could ever in any way cause the player to become flagged for PvP. I will say that I enjoyed (for like, 2 minutes) the challenge of figuring out how to keep myself from getting flagged while completing this mission, but I am simply more annoyed overall at the existence of PvP on my PvE server outside of closed PvP instances. If I designated my desired play style by choosing to roll on a PvE server, then the last thing I want is to have my *PvE* playing be disrupted, even a little, by someone who thinks I want to get involved in a PvP match -- though I don't entirely blame the PvP'er for attacking me since I had the PvP flag forced as set (which is, again, non-sensical on a PvE server). Once again to those that say "It's a PvP area don't go there" the argument is moot because I'm on a Pv-bloody-*E* server.

Edited April 15, 2013 by DimmuJanKaarl
verified by doing it myself

[MorbidSouls]

Tatooine and the star wars universe is a dangerous place, firstly you are very unlikely to get attacked, if you are attacked whats the big deal, you don't need to be there for long and frankly i'm glad Bioware is actually forcing people to get to Outlaw's Den.

 

If you want a big fluffy care bear game go play Free Realms or Fairy Story online.

 

Finally i see Outlaw's Den with people both there for the quest and also to dig up stuff with the seeker droid, it's one of the good things to come out of this expansion.

[Arlbo_Nabbins]

Only that, after you leave the den, you are running around the planet flagged. I went on to look for a seed nearby, full of Reps etc... So now I either watch my back, go sit 5 minutes to reset, or queue for warzone and get out (a quick way to cure the flag)... again... WHY? Why do this to me/us?

 

You know its in Outlaws Den and you know it will flag you if you enter. Make it the last thing you get and then shuttle out. Get back in your ship and take a break for 5 mins while the flag disappears. Its not exactly an onerous task as you don't need to spend much time in the PvP area.

[MajikMyst]

I agree... No PVE missions in a PVP area!! Do not force me to PVP to do a PVE quest..

 

I do not have PVP gear and there is no bolster to level the playing field with someone that does..

 

Then I had to wait to drop the flag..

 

Seriously.. Come on now.. Do not mix PVE and PVP..

 

Thanks..

Edited April 15, 2013 by MajikMyst

[DimmuJanKaarl]

Tatooine and the star wars universe is a dangerous place, firstly you are very unlikely to get attacked, if you are attacked whats the big deal, you don't need to be there for long and frankly i'm glad Bioware is actually forcing people to get to Outlaw's Den.

 

Actually in the case of this mission and the other earlier mission (can't remember what it was) you do have to be there, potentially for quite a while, which is part of the point of the OP. Whether you have to be there for 10 minutes or 10 hours is irrelevant. Engaging in PvP activity should be entirely by the choice of the player, and by "entirely" I mean regardless of where the *PvE* mission may take you. I am on a PvE server. I don't want to do PvP, period. I do, however, want to complete all of the *PvE* missions the game has to offer. These should be absolutely, unequivocally, totally, and completely a mutually-exclusive decision made solely by the player at the very least if the player is on a PvE server.

 

 

If you want a big fluffy care bear game go play Free Realms or Fairy Story online.

 

This serves only to prove one of my points: many PvP'ers seem very sensitive and become very offensive/defensive when they read comments from PvE'ers which state that they don't like to play PvP. I really just don't understand that. It reminds me of the way prejudicial people (read: bigots) express their sentiments often times due to their own inadequacies or lack of self-confidence. I do not PvP. Not choosing to play PvP has nothing to do with the difficulty of the gameplay in which I engage myself. Go flame troll somewhere else.

 

 

Finally i see Outlaw's Den with people both there for the quest and also to dig up stuff with the seeker droid, it's one of the good things to come out of this expansion.

 

No one is disputing why a particular player may be there. At issue is, should someone be there solely to complete a *PvE* mission, whether they should be forced to engage in PvP gameplay. Additionally, I submit that on a PvE server PvP should *never* be forced, as it is completely contrary to primary reason one would roll on a PvE server (as opposed to a PvP server): to engage in game content in the PvE play style, and in many cases -- such as is with me and I suspect the OP and a vast number of other players -- to specifically NOT play PvP.

[cidbahamut]

Exactly.

The whole "don't like PvP? Then don't go into a PvP area" rhetoric is inherently flawed due to the fact that the entire server is designated as a non-PvP environment.

[Emencie]

I can verify that this can be done without entering the Outlaw's Den on a Republic toon (edit: because I did it myself):

 

I will say that I also hate PvP with a passion. I don't usually comment about it because, for whatever reason, expressing my chosen play style incurs endless grief from PvP players. I don't personally understand the attitude about PvE'ers from PvP'ers. For some reason PvP'ers come across as extremely defensive and even go on the offensive towards PvE'ers that don't like to play PvP.

 

I will say this: I chose to play on a PvE server for a reason: I do not want to -- nor can I foresee ever wanting to -- play PvP. I could care less how other people choose to play and what their preferred play style is. However, I don't want PvP crammed down my throat...

You know like most people that PvP I love PvE as well. The idea that you are one or another is a very PvE(only) player conception. The main reason being that in most MMOs including this one even the PvP(only) characters have to engage in PvE at some point or another without fail (the reverse is never ever true even though you are using the phrase "forced to PvP"). It is impossible not to engage in PvE. In other words PvP players are PvE players. Where the attitude comes from is when PvE(only) players decide that all content in the game is for them and should be catered to PvE only. Like all the belly aching about the Gree quests... Did you ever stop to think that perhaps it isn't a PvE(only) quest? That perhaps that is not content meant for people that just want to PvE(only)? Perhaps the quest is meant for people that enjoy the full spectrum the game has to offer.

 

No... You just decided that it was content just for you and shouldn't include any other aspects of the game that you personally don't like. And are suggesting rules for your server to completely remove an aspect of the game that you personally don't like without regard to anyone but your own desires.

 

It is as ridiculous as someone suggesting that PvP servers being players only hostile to one another and all mobs and NPCs be friendly since PvE on a PvP server makes no sense...

Edited April 15, 2013 by Emencie