LegendaryQuan Posted April 12, 2013 Share Posted April 12, 2013 2.0 deception sins are more overpowered than vanilla operative or pre 2.0 smash warriors...by a good amount. It is great fun and everything and im sure all the sins are having a great time stun lock globaling everyone but im just wondering what the over/under on how long until the nerf comes. Because their is no way they are going to let this spec slide for as long as they did for smash and bubble stun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragost Posted April 12, 2013 Share Posted April 12, 2013 Very hard to judge a spec while everyones playing in pre-55, with a bolster that needs adjusting quite a bit. But fyi, a good deception sin pre 2.0 was every bit as good as they are now, its just a bit simpler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LegendaryQuan Posted April 12, 2013 Author Share Posted April 12, 2013 (edited) Very hard to judge a spec while everyones playing in pre-55, with a bolster that needs adjusting quite a bit. But fyi, a good deception sin pre 2.0 was every bit as good as they are now, its just a bit simpler. i was talking about 55 with/against peeps in full partisan. the bolster bug fix might change everything and its possible that the class/spec becomes weak very quickly, but i doubt it. the full global opener is too readily available. to the point where it can be done to player after player after player. sins doing 1mil+ in voidstars is broken. the class has too much utility, stealth, cds, taunts, etc to be the best dps class in the game. deception sins werent globaling good players in vanilla. they would blow you up and everything but nothing like this. stun lock, dead, repeat. cds to survive and escape throughout an entire warzone. if you get opened on by any decent sin now, he will global you. at 55 even moreso than 30-54 (or basically the same as i only played around 10 games of 30-54 so not sure/dont remember. all the same, this is happening at 55 in the new tier sets). ive never said a class in this game needed to be nerfed or cried about any mechanic in this game prior to 2.0. I also play a sin more than any other class these days and the class is very fun for me right now. That being said, deception sin needs a nerf. 23/1/17 sins imo were the most balanced class in the game in vanilla and didnt need to gain or lose anything. 2.0 deception is broken. Edited April 12, 2013 by LegendaryQuan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephenalandavie Posted April 12, 2013 Share Posted April 12, 2013 i was talking about 55 with/against peeps in full partisan. the bolster bug fix might change everything and its possible that the class/spec becomes weak very quickly, but i doubt it. the full global opener is too readily available. to the point where it can be done to player after player after player. sins doing 1mil+ in voidstars is broken. the class has too much utility, stealth, cds, taunts, etc to be the best dps class in the game. deception sins werent globaling good players in vanilla. they would blow you up and everything but nothing like this. stun lock, dead, repeat. cds to survive and escape throughout an entire warzone. if you get opened on by any decent sin now, he will global you. at 55 even moreso than 30-54 (or basically the same as i only played around 10 games of 30-54 so not sure/dont remember. all the same, this is happening at 55 in the new tier sets). ive never said a class in this game needed to be nerfed or cried about any mechanic in this game prior to 2.0. I also play a sin more than any other class these days and the class is very fun for me right now. That being said, deception sin needs a nerf. 23/1/17 sins imo were the most balanced class in the game in vanilla and didnt need to gain or lose anything. 2.0 deception is broken. Broken? Hardly the spec is where it should be at. Its highest hitting abilities are no higher then smash. Deception is one hell of a squishy spec Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LegendaryQuan Posted April 12, 2013 Author Share Posted April 12, 2013 Broken? Hardly the spec is where it should be at. Its highest hitting abilities are no higher then smash. Deception is one hell of a squishy spec warrior leaps and smashes for 6-7k...ouch? now what? now im still alive and fighting and we can have a fight. it hasnt ended with the smash. it has ended with the spike. recklessness, spike, discharge, shock, low slash, maul, maul, assassinate kills everything and you are stunlocked for basically the duration. sin who force shrouds can not be countered in any way. smash does a ton of aoe dmg still but its not even close to globaling people. and sin survivability is way higher than a rage mara or jugg...not if you just stand there taking hits wondering what youre going to do. but for sins who know how/when to use cds, they can chain global opens indefinitely throughout the entire warzone. the spec is overpowered. darkness is fine. darkness hybrid still viable and fine. deception is too much. its more than what 1.0 ops were and people talk about them like it was godmode and no one argues the warranted nerf. its that all over again only worse. i love playing deception right now but whats right is right. the opener is always there and always globals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephenalandavie Posted April 12, 2013 Share Posted April 12, 2013 warrior leaps and smashes for 6-7k...ouch? now what? now im still alive and fighting and we can have a fight. it hasnt ended with the smash. it has ended with the spike. recklessness, spike, discharge, shock, low slash, maul, maul, assassinate kills everything and you are stunlocked for basically the duration. sin who force shrouds can not be countered in any way. smash does a ton of aoe dmg still but its not even close to globaling people. and sin survivability is way higher than a rage mara or jugg...not if you just stand there taking hits wondering what youre going to do. but for sins who know how/when to use cds, they can chain global opens indefinitely throughout the entire warzone. the spec is overpowered. darkness is fine. darkness hybrid still viable and fine. deception is too much. its more than what 1.0 ops were and people talk about them like it was godmode and no one argues the warranted nerf. its that all over again only worse. i love playing deception right now but whats right is right. the opener is always there and always globals. 6-7k really? I am not sure how you get that when iv been seeing 8-9k aoe damage. Shadow strike hits for similar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kayriel Posted April 12, 2013 Share Posted April 12, 2013 @ OP , i think you are exagerating a bit on the deception burst , yes its true that the opener from stealth is good but with the crit neft , we can't make it work like we could pre 2.0 , i don't know about you but i am not a lick guy , so if maul doesn't crit , it does around 3k damage , on the HP pools that are around now , that's not even enough to make an enemy turn their attention on me. Also , the damage boost from stealth , for discharge is great since you get to start with 3 stacks when u pop recklessness , but , again we enoucnter the same issue , if we dont crit on maul , the discharge and the shock ( this ability's damange has been gutted no matter how u look at it ) is the only hard hitting skill we have , and after that we have to either use Force cloak to get back into that burst phase , or somehow make the combat end to restart , since , unlike the smash spec , we have no threatening constant damage. Combine that with the fact that our armor is made out of paper , and hit and run tactics are the key word for the class IMHO , just like operatives. We have the burst but no constant damage , and as pre 2.0 the only thing that changed is the way we deliver that front loaded damage , since now we rely more on maul (white damage which is mitigated by everything ) that force atacks.Of course i amy be wrong since i haven't played much pvp , just a bit on the test server and a few matches now on early access. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaldoA Posted April 12, 2013 Share Posted April 12, 2013 (edited) I wouldn't mind Deception being toned down if they fixed Madness. All classes are pretty overpowered (equal then) if they get you where they want you. Hell, even commandos can dish out serious damage in a couple GCD. EDIT: I have to add though, tanks get a nice buff in PvP now. You may not notice them in pre55 but I'm sure after a while there will be plenty of tanks in 55 PvP, and maul hits extremely poor vs tanks.EDIT2: [PVP] And sure it's situational, though.. on my Deception Assassin I always go to the back of the enemies where the healers are hanging around. I can get my burst off, though being at the back usually means i'm alone and away from heals. That tied with being a squishy class means I don't last very long after getting my burst off. I think that is a fair trade off. Edited April 12, 2013 by WaldoA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBRGhostRider Posted April 12, 2013 Share Posted April 12, 2013 Really OP, all classes are hitting hard these days... Juggs have smash spec, and vengeance is in a really good place now. Snipers... lol, do i really need to say anything? Maras carnage and rage both hitting hard as usual, with tons of defensives, nothing new there PTs... always hit really hard within 10m While I don't play operatives and sorcs, my friends that do so, tell me that they got some improvements too... not sure how good though. yes, deception sins are hitting hard... the whole role of that class is to come out of stealth, hit hard, and disappear. They are finally fulfilling the intended purpose nicely, and given that everyone is hitting hard there is nothing game breaking about it... Heck, even tanks have improved by a fair margin!! I'm looking to play my deception sin and immortal tank the most in PvP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XantosCledwin Posted April 12, 2013 Share Posted April 12, 2013 would help in judging if a spec really is over powered if we had both a link to the spec in question as well as a link to parsing data so we can see for ourselves how over powered the spec in question happens to be and compare it to our own notes, and if we decide it is indeed over powered so we can perhaps copy or adjust it to fit our own needs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RankorSSGS Posted April 12, 2013 Share Posted April 12, 2013 OP misposted, this belongs in the sniper sub forum. Honest mistake, I forgive him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordQordisz Posted April 12, 2013 Share Posted April 12, 2013 A thread started about Sins being OP? I knew this would happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LegendaryQuan Posted April 13, 2013 Author Share Posted April 13, 2013 A thread started about Sins being OP? I knew this would happen. as i said in the op, i play a sin. so im not crying about it or upset in the least about it. its fun and i think it will be funny if they dont nerf deception. it wont make me mad in the least. its just the right thing to do in terms of balance for the game. as for parsars i dont need one. i target someone and they are dead about 6 seconds later without ever having a chance to cast anything. thats enough for me to determine that the class is op. ive done 900k naked in a voidstar, no heals, no deaths. many others have done 1mil+. all the numbers are pretty irrelevant though. what is relevant is that no class should be able to stun lock global over and over and over again all while having the tools to escape any death throughout. darkness and darkness hybrids are both still good and balanced and dont need any changes. deception is a one shot kill spec for people who know what theyre doing. the spec is going to get nerfed, either by the bolster fix, or directly through a patch in the near future. the people at bioware blame vanilla scoundrels for alot of their unsubs at the start of the game. 2.0 deception is better than vanilla scoundrel was. i love the class and i love the spec. if no change is made to it then ill be happy and have fun playing it. im obviously not crying about anything, am just stating the obvious fact, to me at least, based off of a few days play of a new xpack that changed pvp drastically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewte Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 OP I don't believe you play a sin at all. It's much more likely that this is a thinly veiled attempt to get deception nerfed because your sniper was blown up by one. I of course don't know this for certain but Ill bet you a box of hot pockets that you dine on in your mothers basement that this is the case Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tykuiya Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 OP I don't believe you play a sin at all. It's much more likely that this is a thinly veiled attempt to get deception nerfed because your sniper was blown up by one. I of course don't know this for certain but Ill bet you a box of hot pockets that you dine on in your mothers basement that this is the case Ditto on your statement there, since our burst relies so heavily on maul critting and with the crit nerf I can barely pass 25% crit with the agent buff. I don't see people complaining about all the auto crit sorcs and snipers get and did I mention both have CONSISTENT burst? Right now on my sin it's like a non stop roulette wheel, either I hit you for a 7k maul, or I hit you for a 3k maul and even with explotive's extra 9% I bet I'll get a lot more 3k's than 7k's. On a whole I believe this to be a bolster problem, having played my alts who for some reason all have 30+ crit rating in the 30-54 bracket, but trust me as soon as you hit 55 where crit gets thrown out the window they are nowhere near as op as you think they are. As many people before me have pointed out, our paper armor makes us prime targets for high white damage skills like ambush, etc. and with the plethora of buffs they dumped on the other classes you might be able to burst a guy down but you WILL instantly explode right after. Come back to me when bolster is fixed in the lower brackets, and tell me how deception sins are op. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LegendaryQuan Posted April 13, 2013 Author Share Posted April 13, 2013 (edited) OP I don't believe you play a sin at all. It's much more likely that this is a thinly veiled attempt to get deception nerfed because your sniper was blown up by one. I of course don't know this for certain but Ill bet you a box of hot pockets that you dine on in your mothers basement that this is the case i play all the classes (besides merc) and play on the best rated team that exists in the game on any server. so dont bet too much. sin is most recent 50 and have the smallest amount of play time with that class. all the same my opinion on deception stands. (and i bought my mother a house a couple years ago that is nicer than my own so if i ever do get the craving for hot pockets i may take a trip over to her basement to eat them) it may very well be a bolster problem. i said that. if thats the case then whatever, deception might wind up trash. right now is broken... Edited April 13, 2013 by LegendaryQuan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XantosCledwin Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 (edited) OP I don't believe you play a sin at all. It's much more likely that this is a thinly veiled attempt to get deception nerfed because your sniper was blown up by one. I of course don't know this for certain but Ill bet you a box of hot pockets that you dine on in your mothers basement that this is the case Hey, the economy sucks right now, some people live with their families not out of choice but out of necessity. Also it should be noted that the United States is an unusual country in that it is a socially accepted norm for children to move out of their parents house when they turn 18. In most countries children continue to live with their parents well into their adult years, sometimes even after they are married. So don't go insulting people you talk to on the Internet (who may actually live in one of those countries) based on your North American Social Standards. Edited April 13, 2013 by XantosCledwin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geryboy Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 Just grabed out my lvl 50 ewh deception sin. Maul crits for 8-10k with the current bolster. shock 5-6k and discharge 6-7k. that is way more burst than my concealment op had in pre 55. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aetrus Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 it may very well be a bolster problem. i said that. if thats the case then whatever, deception might wind up trash. right now is broken... Calling BS on everything you've said in this thread. You start whining about Deception, someone tells you its different at 55, you say you were talking about 55...then proceed to talk about pre-55 and Bolster. I doubt you've played any 55 matches with your Deception Sin, assuming you even have one. Like someone else said, the crit nerf severely hurts. And it only really kicks in at 55, since before that Bolster takes care of the problem. You either crit on Maul for 8k or more, or you hit them for 3k. And far more often than not, its the 3k option. If anyone actually remembers leveling in PvP to 50, Deception Sins were always OP between 40-49. Same with Conceal Ops. And right now pre-55 (which is basically like the old 40-49) both classes can 100-0 you. At 55, the point is moot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkXXIV Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 idk about darkness but deception is not overpowered. They are good at assassinating 1 target and have weak sustained dmg. Sniper and the warrior are op not assassin, learn what an assassin is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephenalandavie Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 All i am getting from reading all this now is that i want some hot pockets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cycao Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 I feel like I am getting melted just as fast as I melt someone. 1v1, great spec I cannot deny that...best in the game and has been for a few months. I just don't feel super OP like many are suggesting, like take old tank sin builds back when you could tank 2-3 people and walk away from it no problem, that was OP. I feel strong when playing deception but I know there are plenty of other classes hitting like trucks right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uvirith Posted April 15, 2013 Share Posted April 15, 2013 2.0 deception sins are more overpowered than vanilla operative or pre 2.0 smash warriors...by a good amount. It is great fun and everything and im sure all the sins are having a great time stun lock globaling everyone but im just wondering what the over/under on how long until the nerf comes. Because their is no way they are going to let this spec slide for as long as they did for smash and bubble stun. Oh yeah, tears are the best lubricant there is. Just bend over and spread..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darthdaedric Posted April 15, 2013 Share Posted April 15, 2013 Deception is not overpowered. It's just actually able to do it's job now. Deception is supposed to be 1v1 Burst. It was terrible before, now it's not. If you gang up on a Deception Assassin, they die very rapidly. They do not need to be nerfed, they need to just be left alone. No buffs or nerfs right now. The classes in general are pretty well balanced as is. L2P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevormortis Posted April 15, 2013 Share Posted April 15, 2013 (edited) i play all the classes (besides merc) and play on the best rated team that exists in the game on any server If people didn't know you were a troll before, they should after reading that. How bout you put in a sig saying who you are, what server you play on, and what guild you run with that is the best in all of SWTOR. Til then.... GET A LIFE Edited April 15, 2013 by Trevormortis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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