TheHauntingBard Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 People dislike admitting mistakes, even in good guilds. It's common in most MMO's. In pugs you can have four good players and one that doesn't bother. Having a recount to show what is going wrong to the group will either force him to improve or make the kick justified. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzina Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 Agreed. Hate damage meters. They minimize all the other stuff like CC, debuffing, tanking, anything but damage means nothing when there's a DPS meter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lu_Bei Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 (edited) In pugs you can have four good players and one that doesn't bother. Maybe that's why you can only have 4 in this game The moment people require external evidence proving that they broke CC/didn't interrupt/did get heals/took avoidable damage/what have you, is the moment you know the group is doomed and you might as well give up. If you require external evidence to prove a point, not being able to do it without, you are doing it wrong. I'd like a combat log, and a good parser to it, but not at the cost of people starting to argue over it in my groups. Learn to communicate with people. If someone can't admit to his/her fault - if there's any - without demanding cold hard numbers, that's not a person i'd like to see in my party/operation/guild. Also, can we please cut the references of WoW and whatever addons it has? Not having played that game, i'm getting sick of actually having to learn about it - and its addons! - on the TOR official forums. We are not in Azeroth any more. Good answer. Edited December 23, 2011 by Lu_Bei Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeelol Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 Maybe that's why you can only have 4 in this game Good answer. Wrong answer. Combat logs are coming after which all the people who like to play for fun and have no clue what to do can play with themselves and leave us evil elitists alone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aevoam Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 Her is my experience with damage meters in WoW. Group Leader; Aevoam you not doing enough damage!!!!! You have been removed from the group. Group leader then realized I was the healer he proceeded to kick me out three more times for not doing enough damage. On the fourth time I refused to come back. This happened to me in more groups than I care to guess, they pay more attention to how much damage is being done instead of what is really going on. Damage meters are a bad idea period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
velocd Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 BioWare - please implement a personal DPS meter for our character only (cannot be linked in chat, nor can the data be recorded by others). That and training dummies. Hard to figure out what is optimal rotation / abilities / specs otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldmaveric Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 I want a dmg meter purely for my own information, if it doesn't have the ability to link that is fine by me. Just want to know my output for given spec/rotation. exactly, on WoW my druid was normaly top damage, I really don't care to link it to other people. I just want to see my own dps to help my rotation and to push myself when i see it droping. or atleast a threat meter for my tank spec lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scrynen Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 (edited) I've rarely ever had some cocky guy linking damage meters. And even so, who cares? You really want to deny a useful tool just because some people might annoy you with it. Edited December 23, 2011 by scrynen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeelol Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 Wrong answer. Combat logs are coming after which all the people who like to play for fun and have no clue what to do can play with themselves and leave us evil elitists alone =). No rly read it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scrynen Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 =). No rly read it. Yeah, people who think that Bioware wouldn't put in a combat log just because parsers would be made from it are crazy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGTeMpLaR Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 fantastic, I can finally enjoy flashpoints without some kid linking his meter every 3 mins to brag. what a blast, thanks for not including a combat log bioware! If they added a meter scoreboard after every boss fight (similar to scoreboards at the end of BG) you wouldn't have to deal with that either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goshee Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 Having done every flashpoint possible up to level 31 I have had no one brag about their DPS or shout at anyone because they aren't performing as well as they are. We have all worked extremely hard to get through the flashpoints despite the odds at times and came out better knowing we managed to get their by ourselves, doing things how we wanted. Sure we may not have followed an "optimal rotation" but we all had fun and we saw it through to the end and that is what matters. At the end of the day DPS meters aren't needed but I can understand why people would want them. Some people just like to improve and be the best at what they do and there is nothing wrong with that. Some people use it to help others, explain how their DPS can be improved to make getting through content a more smooth process. However with it (or with a linking feature) comes Elitism and as others have said, if a DPS meter is given, there are those people out there who will do anything to be at the top of the damage even if it means not CC'ing that mob attacking the healer or interrupting a big AoE spell because it will harm their DPS. That sort of selfish behaviour leads to wipes and makes other peoples duties in their team a lot harder. Don't get me wrong I'm all for damage meters, just don't let it show other people's unless they tick an option to allow you to do. If you implement a damage meter that only the player can see of their own DPS then don't add a "link to chat" feature or we will be constantly getting "I did this, I bet I did better than all of you". It has happened before in that other game and it will happen again. Sure they can just type it out in the chat but there isn't hard evidence to suggest that that's what they actually got so it will mostly be ignored. That's my 2 pence anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slant_DK Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 (edited) I like how people are seriously saying things like "I want to use a suboptimal rotation and not do what's best for the group and I want to get away with making everyone's life harder without being caught." You actually think you have a god given right to be a bad teamplayer in an mmo? I can see some arguments speaking against dps meters, and while I still don't care whether or not there is going to be one, I really dislike arguments along the line of "If I choose to be an ***, I should have a right to be an *** and no one should be able to call me out on it." I'm not sure if I get my point across, it's so fundamental, it's hard to explain. If you suck badly at this (or other games), and you actively refuse to improve, you deserve to be kicked from the group. The core of this discussion is not really dmg meters. That is just a scapegoat. But trust me, you WILL get booted for sucking. Dmg meter or not. People WILL find out that you suck, and they will - hopefully - politely tell you so and how to improve. And after your refusal to improve, because you think your personal f-ing role play experience (or whatever funky excuse people are thinking up in this thread) is worth more than the time of 3 other people, you willl get the boot. And rightfully so. P.S.: Even the most fun-loving clown posse of sucking players get REALLY annoyed at wiping to the first boss in any given instance repeatedly and having to abort instances because of people not doing their job at least halfway decently. In the end, they will all yell "l2p" at each other and leave. True fact, just saying you want to have fun doesn't actually make you have fun. No matter how often you repeat it. Edited December 23, 2011 by Slant_DK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morcova Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 Her is my experience with damage meters in WoW. Group Leader; Aevoam you not doing enough damage!!!!! You have been removed from the group. Group leader then realized I was the healer he proceeded to kick me out three more times for not doing enough damage. On the fourth time I refused to come back. This happened to me in more groups than I care to guess, they pay more attention to how much damage is being done instead of what is really going on. Damage meters are a bad idea period. Played for 4 years and have never seen that happen once. Sounds like you play with stupid people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drevin Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 Disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HELhikari Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 Nope. It has everything to do with guild control freaks kicking people for not being up to snuff instead of teaching them. Name one guild that actually taught people instead of just g-kicking them and removing them from the raid. What's that? No response? It's ok. We wouldn't kick someone for not knowing how to play their class from day 1, we'd just get someone else who plays it to give you a hand. That includes giving a hand building your skill trees. Don't assume everyone's guild is run by *****. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TradewindNQ Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 I've rarely ever had some cocky guy linking damage meters. And even so, who cares? You really want to deny a useful tool just because some people might annoy you with it. It's the prohibition mentality. Some people with meters are *****, therefore all people with meters are *****. There is not one compelling argument against having at least a rudimentary (even if it's only your own damage breakdowns) meter in place or at least the ability for people to create one using an officially supported API. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDiomedes Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 It's the prohibition mentality. Some people with meters are *****, therefore all people with meters are *****. To paraphrase, I think it's more like .. some people with meters are dooshes, therefore all my raid groups will contain at least one doosh, therefore all my raid experiences are dooshified. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TradewindNQ Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 To paraphrase, I think it's more like .. some people with meters are dooshes, therefore all my raid groups will contain at least one doosh, therefore all my raid experiences are dooshified. That's why there's a thing called /ignore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloatedGuppy Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 I like damage meters. I think they're a fun tool. They can be really informative, and diving into the mechanics of a game can be fun, if occasionally making it feel like you're playing Spreadsheet Wars instead of a role playing game. I will say, however, and this thread stands as perfect evidence of it, that the bulk of the player base of your average MMO are just not capable of psychologically handling damage meters. The degree to which seeing how much damage people are doing makes players LOSE THEIR MINDS is absolutely fascinating, and could be the subject of a thesis paper. The bizarre competitive/validation motivation that powers a lot of MMO addictions never rears its head so obviously as during a discussion about the bloody meter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Malady Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 I want a damage meter. It has nothing to do with linking it so that everyone knows i'm the best, and everything to do with knowing who which of our 4 raid healers isn't healing, so we can teach him. Nightmare mode raiding will be rough You should do it how the veterans do it... you know, like pay attention to your raid members. Technology really dulls your senses, trust me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TradewindNQ Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 makes players LOSE THEIR MINDS I'm being beaten by a Mercenary!!! (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gangbot Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 fantastic, I can finally enjoy flashpoints without some kid linking his meter every 3 mins to brag. what a blast, thanks for not including a combat log bioware! yesss, so they wont know if you are just crossing your arms while they do all the hard work! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Light_Valkyrie Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 Really hate it honestly, I can gauge how well my usual group is doing by our clear time / boss time but still sucks I cant see my rotations dps / experiment with new rotations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sol_Taril Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 It is good to have DPS meter that can SHOW statistics, without option to POST in chat, otherwise how can I improve my performance in raids (operations)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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