2.0 Combat Rotation

[sksk]

Combined with the new changes to combat and the current information on the forums I can't tell if combat damage is subpar, or I'm terrible at it. (prob the latter).

 

Through the forums it seems some people are saying its took a nerfbat to the face while some are saying there is more damage potential.

 

So my question is: For those of you that feel it got buffed or are having success, whats your rotation or technique?

I guess I'm trying to figure out why theres such a huge difference of opinion.

 

Thanks,

[PlasmaJohn]

While doing Ilum, Black Hole and Section X dailies last night I find I'm using Strike a lot less than I used to (obviously I utterly stink at focus management). I'm using Blade Rush more. It seems that it doesn't eat as much focus as I remember. I've taken on a few single golds, but haven't been in any group content so no clue how I'll do in a sustained fight.

 

I tend to open with Force Leap -> Zealous -> Precision -> Blade Storm -> Riposte if a small number of mobs or if a larger pack I'll pop Force Sweep after the leap. After that I'll Master Strike then I hit anything that lights up (MS, Dispatch, etc.) *coughs* but I try to make sure I can PS before BS especially after popping Transcendence, though I'll use BS without PS if I need to take something out immediately.

[KeyboardNinja]

I tend to open with Force Leap -> Zealous -> Precision -> Blade Storm -> Riposte if a small number of mobs or if a larger pack I'll pop Force Sweep after the leap. After that I'll Master Strike then I hit anything that lights up (MS, Dispatch, etc.) *coughs* but I try to make sure I can PS before BS especially after popping Transcendence, though I'll use BS without PS if I need to take something out immediately.

 

Uh… What? Take Force Sweep off your bar. Cyclone Slash is vastly superior in Combat spec.

 

Your opener should look like the following: Leap -> Zealous -> Blade Rush -> Precision + Master Strike -> Blade Storm -> Blade Rush -> Cauterize -> Strike -> Zealous -> … Use Blade Storm on cooldown. Master Strike on cooldown. Blade Rush always immediately before Master Strike. Plan enough Focus to use Precision Slash on cooldown with melee attacks. Use Precision / Dispatch -> Rush -> Rush/Storm when HoJ procs. Use Cauterize on cooldown. Fill with Blade Rush. Use Cyclone Slash for AoE. Zen as soon as you have 30 stacks. Really, it's not so much a rotation as a priority queue.

[PlasmaJohn]

Uh… What? Take Force Sweep off your bar. Cyclone Slash is vastly superior in Combat spec.

Ok, why? I don't disbelieve you, I internalize stuff better when I understand the reasoning. Did I mention I'm lazy? I don't have to care about how I'm facing with FS. Middle-aged reflexes make CS a bit of a chore.

 

Your opener should look like the following: Leap -> Zealous -> Blade Rush -> Precision + Master Strike -> Blade Storm -> Blade Rush -> Cauterize -> Strike -> Zealous -> … Use Blade Storm on cooldown. Master Strike on cooldown. Blade Rush always immediately before Master Strike. Plan enough Focus to use Precision Slash on cooldown with melee attacks. Use Precision / Dispatch -> Rush -> Rush/Storm when HoJ procs. Use Cauterize on cooldown. Fill with Blade Rush. Use Cyclone Slash for AoE.

Lots of good advice, thanks

 

Zen as soon as you have 30 stacks.

Transcendence worked better for me prior to 2.0. I haven't tried it after.

 

Really, it's not so much a rotation as a priority queue.

Yeah. I'm awful about memorizing stuff cold. I need to learn these things through use aka Trial and Error. (mostly the latter). After reviewing the tooltip for Blade Rush I see why you'd want to hit that before melee attacks. (30% Ataru form proc)

[Mr_Fuzzle]

Uh… What? Take Force Sweep off your bar. Cyclone Slash is vastly superior in Combat spec.

 

Your opener should look like the following: Leap -> Zealous -> Blade Rush -> Precision + Master Strike -> Blade Storm -> Blade Rush -> Cauterize -> Strike -> Zealous -> … Use Blade Storm on cooldown. Master Strike on cooldown. Blade Rush always immediately before Master Strike. Plan enough Focus to use Precision Slash on cooldown with melee attacks. Use Precision / Dispatch -> Rush -> Rush/Storm when HoJ procs. Use Cauterize on cooldown. Fill with Blade Rush. Use Cyclone Slash for AoE. Zen as soon as you have 30 stacks. Really, it's not so much a rotation as a priority queue.

 

As far as the opener for 2.0 I'm going to have to disagree with you. Leap -> Zealous -> Precision + Master Strike -> Blade Storm IF Opportune Attack has procced, if not use Blade Rush. Do not use Blade Storm on cooldown, instead only use it with Opportune Attack for these 2 reasons; it's an autocrit and it refunds 1 focus. This ability is an essential part of resource management now. Definitely use Cauterize on c/d, I'll agree with that. The reason you don't use Blade Rush right off the bat is because you don't want to proc Hand of Justice by increasing your chance to proc an Ataru hit. It won't make much of a difference, but it will help. Otherwise, what you've suggested is pretty good. It's just crucial to minimize overlap with HoJ procs and Precision coming off of c/d.

[LiveandDieinLA]

Fuzzle is right, in 2.0 you always want to pop your first precision slash before using blade rush or you will waste your refresh.

[ScytheEleven]

Hey guys, I have a carnage Mara so I'm trying to read everything here and translate it into warrior terms.

 

So only question I have is when to use Blade Storm/Force Scream now in 2.0.

 

Do you want to use Blade Storm/Force Scream ONLY when Hand of Justice/Execute is up, or do you want to save it for when both Hand of Justice/Execute AND Precision Slash/Gore has put it's 100% armor pen up?

[Mr_Fuzzle]

The best time for you to use Blade Storm/Force Scream is when you have Opportune Attack/Execute procced. Use it as soon as possible to maximize your dps. If you use it without that proc, you'll have a lower chance to crit and won't get 1 focus/rage refunded to you.

[AidanLightwalker]

I don't think there is a rotation anymore to be honest. It all depends on Proc. I leap in, zealous strike, then precision slash, If oppertune strike procs, I use master strike followed up by blade storm. If not, I use blade rush followed by master strike. After that it can be anything really because of procs . Its so hard to say what, because combinations come into effect as well. If you can get an oppertune attack, blade storm followed by a HOJ dispatch followed by a twin saber throw all in a precision slash window, OMG, insane bursts. I've gotten 6k blade storm, 5k dispatch, followed by a 4k twin saber throw all in that window.

 

I am surprised to see nobody talking about twin saber throw since it hits hard and is free on CD.

[Exzileforgotten]

Haha you guys are blowing my mind. I am trying to learn carnage(never played it pre 2.0) ,I stink at it! But I am piecing it together alot of buff watching but I think I can make it work. I am mainly talking from a PVP perspective.

 

Wish anni was more suited for PVP I enjoy that spec the most out of the 3

[Mr_Fuzzle]

Twin Saber Throw (TST) is an interesting animal. On the one hand it's free and hits for a decent amount, but on the other hand, Blade Rush can crit for almost as much as TST crits for plus it has a guaranteed Ataru proc with a potential second Ataru proc meaning it will do more damage just about every time. So the only time you would throw TST into a Precision Slash window is when you have no focus (emphasizing that this is a resource management spec). So it would be best to throw Blade Rush in over TST every time unless you are out of focus. Here's a priority for individual abilities for use during your armor penetration windows because set rotations are stupid and you never have the same things available for this spec anymore.

 

Priority list for fitting into Precision Slash windows

 

1. Blade Storm with Opportune Atack proc

 

2. Dispatch

 

3. Master Strike

 

4. Blade Rush

 

5. Twin Saber Throw

 

6. Anything else

[atschai]

There are 3 new tricks you can try if you are not satisfied with combat in 2.0:

 

 

• Try the new proc relic. The one that gives you 510 power boost for 6 sec after a proc. It has 20 sec cooldown and thus can be synced with the HOJ proc. Just pop precision slash the first time you get the relic proc (should be happening soon after your force charge). This gives you phenomenal burst during the precision slash window, increasing blade storm damage by 10% or so.
   
  
• If your surge is high, gear into alacrity. Combat is the only sentinel tree where this makes sense due to blade rush and strike being affected by GC only. Those plus Ataru Form make up 40% of your damage dealt. About 50 alacrity/400 surge seems to be OK. Again, being combat and having to spend few tertiary stats on accuracy helps. While mathematically this makes sense, in real gameplay you are only about to see <1% gain from this.
   
  
• If you are focus starved and zealous strike is on CD, try using your 3 saber throws while backpedaling 10m to get into force leaps range to build 3 focus.
  

 

Edited April 16, 2013 by atschai

[Plicitous]

Uh… What? Take Force Sweep off your bar. Cyclone Slash is vastly superior in Combat spec.

.

 

This is a really curious comment. Is the tool-tip wrong for Cyclone Slash or have you just mixed up the abilities? Force Sweep does almost 3x the damage from what I can tell and is far easier to use since you don't have to aim the cone of attack. It's the Cyclone ability that I removed from my quickbar a year or more ago and unless I've completely overlooked something it really has no redeeming qualities whatsoever.

 

Force Sweep = Smash, correct?

Edited April 17, 2013 by Plicitous

[Aurojiin]

This is a really curious comment. Is the tool-tip wrong for Cyclone Slash or have you just mixed up the abilities? Force Sweep does almost 3x the damage from what I can tell and is far easier to use since you don't have to aim the cone of attack. It's the Cyclone ability that I removed from my quickbar a year or more ago and unless I've completely overlooked something it really has no redeeming qualities whatsoever.

 

Force Sweep = Smash, correct?

Yes, this confuses me too.

 

That being said, with enough mobs present Cyclone Slash will ultimately do more DPS than single target abilities.

 

Fuzzle is right, in 2.0 you always want to pop your first precision slash before using blade rush or you will waste your refresh.

If you're unlucky your leap or ZS can proc HoJ during your opener. It's irritating to say the least.

 

Do you want to use Blade Storm/Force Scream ONLY when Hand of Justice/Execute is up, or do you want to save it for when both Hand of Justice/Execute AND Precision Slash/Gore has put it's 100% armor pen up?

Hand of Justice is the proc to allow Dispatch on any health target and reset Precision Slash. You're thinking of Opportune Attack.

 

My approach is to only use Blade Storm with Opportune Attack up, but use it outside of Precision if you don't have a window coming up shortly (i.e. >7 seconds on the CD of Precision Slash and Hand of Justice is on its internal CD).

[rkjunior]

What do you guys recommend for a lower level that doesn't have Blade Rush yet? I've been running for my rotation:

 

Leap->Zealous->Crippled->Precision+Master Strike->Blade Storm then kinda freeforming for cooldowns.

[MusicRider]

What do you guys recommend for a lower level that doesn't have Blade Rush yet? I've been running for my rotation:

 

Leap->Zealous->Crippled->Precision+Master Strike->Blade Storm then kinda freeforming for cooldowns.

 

Level as watchman. The combat (and focus) trees are not good early on for levelling.

[rkjunior]

Level as watchman. The combat (and focus) trees are not good early on for levelling.

 

Well, this character is at 44 so I don't think it matters anymore. lol

[Twolightsabers]

There are 3 new tricks you can try if you are not satisfied with combat in 2.0:

 

[*]If your surge is high, gear into alacrity. Combat is the only sentinel tree where this makes sense due to blade rush and strike being affected by GC only. Those plus Ataru Form make up 40% of your damage dealt. About 50 alacrity/400 surge seems to be OK. Again, being combat and having to spend few tertiary stats on accuracy helps. While mathematically this makes sense, in real gameplay you are only about to see <1% gain from this.

 

[*]If you are focus starved and zealous strike is on CD, try using your 3 saber throws while backpedaling 10m to get into force leaps range to build 3 focus.

 

No, alacrity is a dps loss on any gear for us. Perhaps, and it's unlikely, that at end "expansion" in BIS gear it might be ok, but as of now: ALACRITY = BAD.

[KeyboardNinja]

This is a really curious comment. Is the tool-tip wrong for Cyclone Slash or have you just mixed up the abilities? Force Sweep does almost 3x the damage from what I can tell and is far easier to use since you don't have to aim the cone of attack. It's the Cyclone ability that I removed from my quickbar a year or more ago and unless I've completely overlooked something it really has no redeeming qualities whatsoever.

 

Force Sweep = Smash, correct?

 

Force Sweep is Smash.

 

The reason to use Cyclone over Sweep is two fold. First, Cyclone can proc Ataru, which is a major boost to its damage output (particularly if you have the Blade Rush proc). Second, pre-2.0 Zen affected the cost and GCD on Cyclone Slash, which basically allowed to you to turn into an AoE machine for 4 seconds. I pretty regularly saw my CS crit for 2k on each target (under Precision Slash), with an additional Ataru proc *and* the DPS increased from the reduce GCD and cost. I could do that 4 times in 4 seconds, for a total DPS of ~6k/sec over 4 seconds, which is only a hair shy of what a Focus spec sentinel can do.

 

The second reason is really moot in 2.0, since Zen no longer reduces costs and reduces the GCD on everything. However, the Ataru reason remains. Looking at the coefficients, it appears that Cyclone Slash is roughly 12% less powerful than Force Sweep at the bonus damage and weapon damage values currently common in the game. A 12% difference is easily matched by the Ataru proc. In fact, the Ataru proc (even at a 60% chance) pushes Cyclone Slash's damage up to 13% *better* than Force Sweep.

 

So the damage value is a lot higher on Cyclone Slash, *and* it's spammable and can proc HoJ and OS.

Edited April 17, 2013 by KeyboardNinja

[Aurojiin]

So the damage value is a lot higher on Cyclone Slash, *and* it's spammable and can proc HoJ and OS.

Interesting. Thank you for the reminder not to be complacent about my class knowledge.

[Plicitous]

Interesting. Thank you for the reminder not to be complacent about my class knowledge.

 

Indeed!

[Mr_Fuzzle]

Force Sweep is Smash.

 

The reason to use Cyclone over Sweep is two fold. First, Cyclone can proc Ataru, which is a major boost to its damage output (particularly if you have the Blade Rush proc). Second, pre-2.0 Zen affected the cost and GCD on Cyclone Slash, which basically allowed to you to turn into an AoE machine for 4 seconds. I pretty regularly saw my CS crit for 2k on each target (under Precision Slash), with an additional Ataru proc *and* the DPS increased from the reduce GCD and cost. I could do that 4 times in 4 seconds, for a total DPS of ~6k/sec over 4 seconds, which is only a hair shy of what a Focus spec sentinel can do.

 

The second reason is really moot in 2.0, since Zen no longer reduces costs and reduces the GCD on everything. However, the Ataru reason remains. Looking at the coefficients, it appears that Cyclone Slash is roughly 12% less powerful than Force Sweep at the bonus damage and weapon damage values currently common in the game. A 12% difference is easily matched by the Ataru proc. In fact, the Ataru proc (even at a 60% chance) pushes Cyclone Slash's damage up to 13% *better* than Force Sweep.

 

So the damage value is a lot higher on Cyclone Slash, *and* it's spammable and can proc HoJ and OS.

 

My question is are you assuming that Ataru Form can proc for each target hit? If so, that is incorrect. Only the enemy you have targeted directly can be hit by Ataru Form. This means only one target is affected by the Ataru Form proc. Sure, you can crit for over 2k on each target with Cyclone Slash, but Force Sweep can crit for well over 3k on each target AND you can follow it up by CS spam. This will give the potential benefits from Ataru form (basically a chance at every single other proc we have) while dealing increased damage to the targets you're AoEing down. Basically what I'm saying is that you need to use both in order to maximize your AoE damage (not to mention mix in Twin Saber Throw).

[KeyboardNinja]

My question is are you assuming that Ataru Form can proc for each target hit? If so, that is incorrect. Only the enemy you have targeted directly can be hit by Ataru Form.

 

Evidence? Nothing in the script files that I can find supports this. Cyclone Slash itself isn't targeted, so you're basically saying that CS is incapable of procing Ataru on any target, which is something that is demonstrably false.

[Mr_Fuzzle]

Evidence? Nothing in the script files that I can find supports this. Cyclone Slash itself isn't targeted, so you're basically saying that CS is incapable of procing Ataru on any target, which is something that is demonstrably false.

 

Well, CS needs you to actually target something to use it. You cannot use it if you do not have a target within range. So, we will take a look at this parse on the Writhing Horror (not by me, just an example Marauder).

 

http://www.torparse.com/a/182436/7/0/Damage+Dealt

 

And what you will notice is that any time he uses Sweeping Slash, only one Ataru Form ever procs because it is only procced on his actual target. Now, this may just be a fluke, so let's take a look at another parse from the same fight since there happens to be a good deal of AoE phases.

 

http://www.torparse.com/a/178032/8/0/Damage+Dealt

 

We find again that Ataru Form only procs on a single target affected by Sweeping Slash, who is the player's actual target.

 

You can only proc Ataru Form on the main target you are hitting, the secondary targets are icing on the cake and are only affected by the initial hit and potential offhand strike. Evidence enough?

 

From the Titan 6 fight.

 

http://www.torparse.com/a/181352/38/0/Damage+Dealt

 

And finally from the Dread Master Styrak fight.

 

http://www.torparse.com/a/185949/33/0/Damage+Dealt

[KeyboardNinja]

Well, CS needs you to actually target something to use it. You cannot use it if you do not have a target within range.

 

Try it. CS works just fine without any active target whatsoever. In fact, pre-2.0, it was a pretty common trick to build the last few stacks of Centering when finishing a fight with >3 Focus by activating CS on absolutely nothing.

 

So, we will take a look at this parse on the Writhing Horror (not by me, just an example Marauder).

 

http://www.torparse.com/a/182436/7/0/Damage+Dealt

 

And what you will notice is that any time he uses Sweeping Slash, only one Ataru Form ever procs because it is only procced on his actual target.

 

You don't really know what his actual target is. You're just surmising that the single Ataru proc was on his main focus.

 

What I think is actually going on here is the rate limit on Ataru form, since it can only proc once every 1.5 seconds. This is something I forgot entirely, and it makes Force Sweep a much more compelling option than Cyclone Slash. So, it's not that Ataru is limited to your current target, but rather that it is limited to at most one target affected by *any* ability in a single GCD.