Bolster = end of swtor PvP?

[Locksley]

You seem to be under the impression PVE players will get a free ride at 55... They won't, PvP geared players will still beat PVE geared players, just not as badly as before. It means PVE players can come into a WZ to earn PvP gear without being totally useless, that is a good thing for everyone.

 

Stop being a baby and crying over something you obviously understand very little about.

 

Actually I think its you that doesnt understand what the durps at lolware have done. level 55 pvp is working by all accounts and the gap is closer and thats fine but its the other grades that is the problem.

Im all for skill based pvp I am but there is no way in the world that a lower level player should have higher stats than a player that has already played enough to get his/her pvp gear. To put it in easy terms that some would understand. Would you guys take a fresh 50/55 to do a nightmare op? if the answer is no why not? why cant they just add a bolster system so that fresh 50/55's can just join in.

 

Now ive 12 slots used and have 7 50's and 5 between 24 and 46 some have full wh and some have ewh and my lower toons have decent stuff too. As it stands and I can take my noobie toons and blast to bits a dude thats put more time into his 50 toon thats not right.

Edited April 10, 2013 by Locksley

[Naej]

I get the idea of having a system where being undergeared isn't as big a hamstring as in most mmo's. But is it going to kill this game? At least pvp wise?

Most people need a goal to shoot for, something they want to work towards to keep them interested in the game. While WoW is a flawed system it has kept players occupied by dangling ever shinier more powerful gear in front of their noses. What is going to be that carrot on a stick in swtor?

Without that carrot I'm affraid the horse will grow bored and start looking around for something else to chew on. Imo if you don't leave enough of a gap between new level 55 / PvE gear and the elite PvP sets your going to lose people. That's just the harsh reality.

Most people want to strut around in their full elite set, show off and be "powerful". Rewarded for their hard work by standing out and just having a title over your head isn't good enough for most. If they are getting 2-4 shotted in their hard earned gear by a guy in greens, they will flip their keyboard and yell "F this game, this is BS! What the hell was the point of all that comms grinding if a newb can kill me in a gcd?"

People are flawed that's why communism will never work, people have to feel like they are on top, better than the average. Percieved or not.

 

I think on the contrary it'll save PvP. Once they get it to work properly that is.

 

Think of a FPS game. Is there any kind of gear that comes into account? No, it's 99% skill and teamwork. People value more skill than gear when it comes to PvP. Only skill-less noobs will value gear (read: time invested) over skill.

 

I think BW is aiming at having the PvP being 90% skill/teamwork, and the last little 10% being the little perk you will get from having the top gear, which they said I think was tuned to be 3-5% better.

 

So you spend minimal time (1-2 weeks) gathering the first level of PvP gear, to be competitive and up to a few months getting the top gear, which will bring you 3-5% above the rest. A skilled player will always have the top over an unskilled player, and I think it's the right idea.

 

Now the problem they have with the bolster, is that 1) people are stronger naked, and 2) people with green gear own people in full EWH/WH. The first issue, they said they are working on a fix (it is unintended) while the second issue will be gone very soon, when those having EWH and WH gear get to level 55. Then that gear will no longer be available, and people will be on even ground.

 

Then over the next few weeks, they'll tweek here and there the bolster so that it's more representative of your level, while staying competitive (i.e. a level 30 shouldn't own a level 54, it makes no sense... while at the same time, he shouldn't get 2-shot).

 

Really I'll say this, the expansion isn't even out yet (for most people) and still, everyone seems to be banging the panic button.

[Philastra]

Locksley your right and that's exactly whats broken atm, they will fix it, unfortunately we just have to wait. But in the mean time Naked PVP FTW. (might as well enjoy it) Edited April 10, 2013 by Philastra

[Arutar]

You seem to be under the impression PVE players will get a free ride at 55... They won't, PvP geared players will still beat PVE geared players, just not as badly as before. It means PVE players can come into a WZ to earn PvP gear without being totally useless, that is a good thing for everyone.

 

If that is how it works after this mess is sorted out, you are right.

 

The thing is, we have to wait and see.

[Sweeet]

Actually I think its you that doesnt understand what the durps at lolware have done. level 55 pvp is working by all accounts and the gap is closer and thats fine but its the other grades that is the problem.

Im all for skill based pvp I am but there is no way in the world that a lower level player should have higher stats than a player that has already played enough to get his/her pvp gear. To put it in easy terms that some would understand. Would you guys take a fresh 50/55 to do a nightmare op? if the answer is no why not? why cant they just add a bolster system so that fresh 50/55's can just join in.

 

Now ive 12 slots used and have 7 50's and 5 between 24 and 46 some have full wh and some have ewh and my lower toons have decent stuff too. As it stands and I can take my noobie toons and blast to bits a dude thats put more time into his 50 toon thats not right.

 

I wasn't referring to pre-55 PvP.... The issue with lower level players having more stats then higher level players is a bug, and is going to get fixed. That should be well known by now and is nothing to get your knickers in a twist over.

 

Stop spreading doom and gloom over a known bug that is getting fixed... It makes you look extremely ignorant.

[UltimateKrucible]

I wasn't referring to pre-55 PvP.... The issue with lower level players having more stats then higher level players is a bug, and is going to get fixed. That should be well known by now and is nothing to get your knickers in a twist over.

 

Stop spreading doom and gloom over a known bug that is getting fixed... It makes you look extremely ignorant.

 

You're missing the point. This has been in development for months and upon release has been revealed to be a disaster of titanic proportions.

 

What gives you faith that it'll be fixed anytime soon, if at all? The very fact it got released like this after months of development and time on the PTS should give you a clue that the PvP dev team is floundering. Badly.

 

And this isn't some minor bug - it's a complete reversal of the way PvP has been since launch. The better gear you have, the weaker you are. I still can't believe this ever made it to live.

[Sweeet]

You're missing the point. This has been in development for months and upon release has been revealed to be a disaster of titanic proportions.

 

What gives you faith that it'll be fixed anytime soon, if at all? The very fact it got released like this after months of development and time on the PTS should give you a clue that the PvP dev team is floundering. Badly.

 

And this isn't some minor bug - it's a complete reversal of the way PvP has been since launch. The better gear you have, the weaker you are. I still can't believe this ever made it to live.

 

You do realise this only effects level 50 PvP gear and the relic slots right? Having gear of any other level in the other slots will give you a boost in stats over going naked. People don't "have" to play naked, they just have to wear something other than PvP gear and leave the relic slots empty to get the most out of the bugged system right now.

 

In MMO terms, the PvP Dev team is tiny, there will always be bugs like this that need to get squashed. But it really isn't as bad as you or others are trying to make out... Just wear something other than PVP gear and leave your relic slots empty until it's fixed... Or just continue to wind yourselves up over it, I really don't care.

Edited April 10, 2013 by Sweeet

[Rheemus]

You do realise this only effects level 50 PvP gear and the relic slots right? Having gear of any other level in the other slots will give you a boost in stats over going naked. People don't "have" to play naked, they just have to wear something other than PvP gear and leave the relic slots empty to get the most out of the bugged system right now.

 

In MMO terms, the PvP Dev team is tiny, there will always be bugs like this that need to get squashed. But it really isn't as bad as you or others are trying to make out... Just wear something other than PVP gear and leave your relic slots empty until it's fixed... Or just continue to wind yourselves up over it, I really don't care.

 

SIMPLY WRONG and its easy to prove just ADDING ONE SINGLE ITEM in ONE slot DECREASES your armoring and thus damage reduction by many percent... also empty orange gear if then equipped lowers then the armor significantly, then if you put in even crappy green mods your HP and damage goes DOWN. I have tried this on my 16 chars across my 2 SWTOR accounts extensively over the last two days and made a video on Youtube showing results as well. So STOP that NONSENSE that naked is not better than some gear !

 

Know what tell the main developers in bellow official statement that YOU are RIGHT and THEY are wrong.

DAMN it these "i know better" players....

 

Here is the essence of above statement by Bioware:

 

It is important to note that “naked Bolster” is never intended to be better than wearing gear, this is a bug and is going to be fixed.

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=6121757#post6121757

 

WHAT FREAKING PART OF THAT DONT YOU OR THE REST OF THE "naked is not best" not understand !!!!

 

The developers admit and recognize that naked IS better than equipping gear CURRENTLY and are TRYING to fix it, though many people doubt they have the intellectual skills to do it, since they ignored the hundreds of threads on PTS forum and just released it to make some much needed money before they close down completely. (people have the right to doubt ANYTHING Bioware claims to do after the pure CHAIN of F..ups over the last year)

Edited April 10, 2013 by Rheemus

[Czigo]

This game needs brackets. The bolster system will work significantly better if the range for stat differences isn't so dramatic. Not to mention bolster doesn't compensate for the abilities a 49 poses vs that of a 10 either.

 

Brackets just flat out make for a more balanced pvp experience.

[Sweeet]

SIMPLY WRONG and its easy to prove just ADDING ONE SINGLE ITEM in ONE slot DECREASES your armoring and thus damage reduction by many percent... also empty orange gear if then equipped lowers then the armor significantly, then if you put in even crappy green mods your HP and damage goes DOWN. I have tried this on my 16 chars across my 2 SWTOR accounts extensively over the last two days and made a video on Youtube showing results as well. So STOP that NONSENSE that naked is not better than some gear !

 

Know what tell the main developers in bellow official statement that YOU are RIGHT and THEY are wrong.

DAMN it these "i know better" players....

 

Here is the essence of above statement by Bioware:

 

It is important to note that “naked Bolster” is never intended to be better than wearing gear, this is a bug and is going to be fixed.

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=6121757#post6121757

 

WHAT FREAKING PART OF THAT DONT YOU OR THE REST OF THE "naked is not best" not understand !!!!

 

The developers admit and recognize that naked IS better than equipping gear CURRENTLY and are TRYING to fix it, though many people doubt they have the intellectual skills to do it, since they ignored the hundreds of threads on PTS forum and just released it to make some much needed money before they close down completely. (people have the right to doubt ANYTHING Bioware claims to do after the pure CHAIN of F..ups over the last year)

 

Yes and watch how all your main stats and endurance increase when you equip a piece of gear

 

Naked is not "better", the stats you gain depend on the stats of the gear you equip. Naked is the default if you will, and then you can adjust your stats by equipping various different pieces of gear. Some for the better, some for the worse, depending on the stats you are aiming for.

 

The ONLY reason level 50 PvP gear is redundant, is because the expertise stat is redundant as the bolster gives that to you automatically now, so essentially the expertise is a wasted stat on PvP gear. Which is why equipping normal gear with no expertise or going naked gives you greater gains.

 

How about you pay attention to ALL your stats when equipping gear in a WZ... Extensive testing...yeah right, extensive tunnel vision you mean.

Edited April 10, 2013 by Sweeet

[DarthOvertone]

After some serious thought and intense nekkid PvPing last night, I came to the conclusion that the new Bolster is not the end of SWTOR PvP. It is in fact, the beginning...a new dawn of nekkid PvP where gear really doesn't matter at all and we just have fun fighting each other with our guns and schwartzes. Edited April 10, 2013 by DarthOvertone

[Rheemus]

Yes and watch how all your main stats and endurance increase when you equip a piece of gear

 

Naked is not "better", the stats you gain depend on the stats of the gear you equip. Naked is the default if you will, and then you can adjust your stats by equipping various different pieces of gear. Some for the better, some for the worse, depending on the stats you are aiming for.

 

The ONLY reason level 50 PvP gear is redundant, is because the expertise stat is redundant as the bolster gives that to you automatically now, so essentially the expertise is a wasted stat on PvP gear. Which is why equipping normal gear with no expertise or going naked gives you greater gains.

 

How about you pay attention to ALL your stats when equipping gear in a WZ... Extensive testing...yeah right, extensive tunnel vision you mean.

 

No stats dont go up.... you loos e HP , loose DMG, and loos Armor rating...

 

And WHAT F.. part of the official statement by Bioware is not getting into your thick melon head ?

 

Or go to their official facebook page or follow Mr. Austin on twitter he again CONFIRMS all naked is better. But YOU ofc know better than Bioware suuuuure....

Edited April 11, 2013 by Rheemus

[painterwhit]

It's not just the naked bug that's flawed here. The increased damage and healing buff that bolster gives is way too high. TTK is way too short.

 

there shouldn't even BE a buff for people missing gear at 34. You should have all your gear slots filled by that level. If anything you should be penalized for NOT having something in a slot. starter bracket I don't care

[TheronFett]

This game is what...about 16 months old? And they've re-geared the PvP system 3 or 4 times now already and players have had to grind new sets each time. That's a pathetic track record.

 

Truth is, for those of you new people, these developers are completely clueless and inept at making PvP viable. It's been a problem since beta that this dev team puts absolutely ZERO stock in player feedback on PTS and continues to push stupid crap to the live server.

[supafreak]

I guess rateds and acquiring ranked gear to show your skill in comparison to other max level players aren't a thing for you, then?

 

I mean seriously what more shows your ability to play your class in combination with seven other dedicated PvPers than acquiring a higher and higher ranking level in rated PvP and wearing the gear you acquire from that rating?

 

Thats a scoreboard that isnt content

Aquiring a rank doesnt prove anything if guilds can farm each other's premades for rank

Even if you dont farm getting the highest rank only takes a short amount of time and then what? You have a rank you may or may not have worked for, to show off to other people that may or may not have farmed to get the same thing.

PVPers play the same 5 warzones from 10-55, from 10-54(not clear on 55 yet) you know you will get 2 shotted, and with new bolster you know that no matter how much you do some smasher at lvl 20 can sign up for his first WZ and mess up half your team.

Why even get new gear? I like no gear gap and level field (that isnt the current bolster though) but we need something to do. I DONT WANT A SEVERE ADVANTAGE FROM MY PVP GEAR IM just wondering why should anyone buy the gear now? Some open world base battles for resources and a faction wide buff for an hour/day would be a nice start

PVEers get a new flashpoint every few levels and at cap they get hardmodes and OPs and now they get easy mode PVP too! I wonder how Raiders would feel if every OP and FP was Bolstered so the guy in greens could run S&V and the only thing that dropped was a title saying you Beat S&V

Edited April 11, 2013 by supafreak

[brunocalico]

and if there is no bolster why would low levels do pvp?

 

brackets simple

[Blooter]

What people fail to understand is that Bioware, although stating that Bolster was not meant to work the way it is now, still continues to drive the PvP portion of its game to the ground. Whether or not they fix the naked pvp bug in the near future really shouldn't be the main concern of the large masses that que WZ/RWZ everyday. What we as a community should be concerned about, is Bioware's lack of concern for us. The game has gone noticeably unchanged for almost a year. Each patch provided 1 or 2 major changes, but in reality, released the same crap in a shiny new toilet. And it sufficed for the majority of players...

 

Now, as 2.0 has launched, the PvP community is again outraged at the lack of attention Bioware has put it into its product. Will they listen? Most likely not. After all, they deleted the PTS forums after the initial testing and simply ignored the heinous amounts of negative feedback concerning Bolster. And I agree with the negativity. Take an honest look at the definition of PvP: Player vs Player. In it's purest essence, it is defined as a competitive match between other people. The methods and mechanics used to achieve this differ from game to game, but in the end, the notion remains: competition. Athletes train to better themselves and achieve that "edge" against their opponents. The same is true for gamers who grind their gear and "flaunt" it. I know this is a game, and most people don't have the time to spend hours upon hours striving to attain perfection in a pixelated arena. Yet those who do, should not have to suffer. I'm all about skill > gear. In fact, I completely agree. However it shouldn't be forced upon people.

 

For those of you who truly need Bolster to remain competitive in PvP, I'm not asking/telling you to L2P. Just don't complain that WZ/RWZ are won/lost by gear (some will argue this). The inevitable realization might be: "I'm just not as good as the other player."

 

For those who complain about Bolster and the state of PvP in SWTOR, argue about the real issues in the game: Resolve bar; CC Chains; the utter lack of fostering a competitive ranking structure through arenas/rwz (aside from the -maybe- 8 teams who repetitively que for RWZ on each server); the amount of time it took for BW to address the smashlol/bubblestun bonanza; etc... The list is pretty long, and this wall of text is critting my fingers and your eyeballs.

 

So i leave you, the fans of a game we all want to succeed, with this: Complaining can only get us so far. We need to foster a PvP environment that is not only rewarding(progression-wise) and competitive, but enjoyable and fun. Use your voice intelligently. Trolling other players, ridiculing, and intangible expectations will not help the cause.

 

And for Bioware: Listen to the masses. Listen, and you will reap the rewards.

[LegendaryQuan]

op is correct. people dont play mmos like they play CoD, street fighter, starcraft., etc. their needs to be progression and the progression needs to be palpable. if bis is hardly noticeable over entry level gear people will stop playing the game. this expansion could have been welcomed by all, with the new viable specs, abilities, operations, gear. But they destroyed everything (surprise, surprise) with this new bolster system. the design of this game has always been good since day one. its the idiots at biowarre coming up with horrible ideas that has continuously hurt this game.

[dcgregorya]

Lots of blah blah I grind therefore I am.

 

Bolster isn't the problem. Bolster means no more gear gap. And this is good. And gear has not been a defining part of PVP in 2.0 and *THAT* is good. Only issue I have right now is how low the TTK is.

Edited April 11, 2013 by dcgregorya

[Misterpurp]

and if there is no bolster why would low levels do pvp?

 

All geared players started at low level with no gear...so how is it any different? Its to make the game more and more accesible and less and less hardcore...i am sure that being geared will have a significant impact, but i just wished low lvl noobs would stop whining

[Totaltrash]

Bolster isn't the problem. Bolster means no more gear gap. And this is good. And gear has not been a defining part of PVP in 2.0 and *THAT* is good. Only issue I have right now is how low the TTK is.

 

Gear-gap whiners fall into 3 categories:

 

1. The casual PVEer

Plays a few warzones a month, never got recruit gear or doesn't feel like wearing it.

He gets stomped mostly because of his lack of skill, but he will blame the "superior gear" of his opponents.

Accepting responsibility for one's failures is an outdated concept, especially here in the US.

As we can clearly see from naked PVP, he's as bad as ever - bolster or not.

 

2. The "ADHD" player (no offense to people really afflicted with that disorder)

Feels entitled to get everything immediately!

Does not care for progression, does not have any patience, and can't be bothered to work for gear.

This type of player is usually found on FPS games, but every MMO has an influx of them.

PVP in FPS games is generally much more competitive and many players just can't cut it there.

Hence, they migrate to MMOs where PVP life is a lot easier.

 

3. The scoreboard junkie

Enters a warzone in recruit gear and deathmatches. Equates skill with scoreboard numbers and, since his numbers

are lower in recruit gear, he demands "equality". He is currently cheering the loudest for Biobolster, because he has gained the most from it.

 

Good PVPers don't whine about a gear gap. They know that:

 

1) It only took a week of playing warzones regularly to become competitive.

2) Regardless of gear, you still can play for your team and wz objectives, if you have true skill.

[Ashenshuggar]

I really don't understand why Bioware is going down this path.

You would think that the companys' main goal would be to lure in subs. "Why buy the cow"? They are giving away the milk for free.

If you don't need gear to be top notch in PvP and there are no speeders or pets or anything to gain from comms then your kinda wasting $15 a month.

Are they just going to rely upon the Cartel Market for their revenue? Seems a bad buisness plan to me. A steady revenue is preferable to a completly sales based one I would think.

People that sub obviously do so because they want to play a lot and have more / faster access to rewards. Nothing worthwhile to get anymore that you can't get from f2p? Bet subs go way down.

I for one probably won't buy a weekly pass just to play more huttball and nothing to shoot for.

Edited April 11, 2013 by Ashenshuggar

[stephenalandavie]

Well the active players numbers are dropping once again maybe bioware should speed their asses up.

[dcgregorya]

Gear-gap whiners fall into 3 categories:

 

1. The casual PVEer

Plays a few warzones a month, never got recruit gear or doesn't feel like wearing it.

He gets stomped mostly because of his lack of skill, but he will blame the "superior gear" of his opponents.

Accepting responsibility for one's failures is an outdated concept, especially here in the US.

As we can clearly see from naked PVP, he's as bad as ever - bolster or not.

 

2. The "ADHD" player (no offense to people really afflicted with that disorder)

Feels entitled to get everything immediately!

Does not care for progression, does not have any patience, and can't be bothered to work for gear.

This type of player is usually found on FPS games, but every MMO has an influx of them.

PVP in FPS games is generally much more competitive and many players just can't cut it there.

Hence, they migrate to MMOs where PVP life is a lot easier.

 

3. The scoreboard junkie

Enters a warzone in recruit gear and deathmatches. Equates skill with scoreboard numbers and, since his numbers

are lower in recruit gear, he demands "equality". He is currently cheering the loudest for Biobolster, because he has gained the most from it.

 

Good PVPers don't whine about a gear gap. They know that:

 

1) It only took a week of playing warzones regularly to become competitive.

2) Regardless of gear, you still can play for your team and wz objectives, if you have true skill.

 

Or category 4. The people who have already grinded out BM gear (back when it was annoying), have 9 alts and don't feel like gearing them all up. Variety is the spice of life. Gear gap is stupid.

 

On the flip side there's exactly one "progression should exist" type of player - the type that feels like they should be entitled to an advantage because they "worked harder" - as if PVP was supposed to be work.

Edited April 11, 2013 by dcgregorya

[aliashero]

For any game to have a level playing field in PVP, the depth of the gameplay mechanics need to be good.

 

For example:

 

- It needs to be fun to improve your own skill level

- Improving should be challenging, so it's more rewarding as you improve

- There needs to be a high skill ceiling

 

MMO's generally don't have all those qualities, which is why there is gear to reward players who play more and make it easier to beat people with lower end gear, who may be equal if not better in skill.

 

While I applaud bioware for leveling the playing field, and making this game not so much about who has the better gear, I don't think it's going to work too well in an MMO because they lack the depth of skill required.

 

To illustrate my point, consider the following skill level requirements of the following games to be played at their highest level:

 

- Quake3/Quakelive (any of the quakes really)

- Starcraft/Starcraft 2

- Original counterstrike

- UT2k3/2k4

 

Compare the mechanics of those games to MMO's, and you'll see a huge difference. MMO's with an even playing field can get boring very fast because there isn't as high a skill ceiling and it's not too hard to get very good.