Take Heart Young Padawan

[Venator-Falco]

In These Forums you are going to read a vast amount of content about how Hard it is to be a Jedi Sentinel. How it is complicated, how it is underpowered, how the whole class is broken or “Borked” as one of the great detractors of the class puts it (Though he has never actually defined the word)

Inevitably this thread will turn into another thread with a lot of noise about how broken they are, but Take Heart.

 

 

If you want to learn to be a Jedi Sentinel it is not a suicide mission, it is a challenge, it is different, and it does take some concentration and intellect, but it is by no means some great elitist dark magic that only the exulted few will achieve.

I am going to start here by saying I am obviously not as good at playing the Sentinel as some of the people posting here. I am also playing a Combat Tree Sentinel which people are saying is no where near as powerful as the Watchmen, and Also I run with Kira instead of T7 all of the time (The concept of Ranged tanking seems silly and I have always had short tolerance for rolling garbage bins… Sorry I mean Astromech Droids. So what this tells you is that while I am not specced to make it easy, I am able to complete all of these challenges that are apparently to difficult. Which means if you want to spec it as the masters of the class do, your experiences should be easier than mine.

 

 

 

So, with all of that out of the way let us get started.

Obviously if you are reading this you have read Maefly’s Primer right?

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=47695

This is a solid starter. It covers most of the basics and shows you that this is all not black magic but a very understandable class.

So what are the things you are going to hear about the Sentinel, it is too complicated, under powered, has no crowd control, interrupts and no aoe also our cool downs are to long and the level progression is broked (There is that word again)

 

 

 

So let us look at some of these things

How complicated is the Sentinel, You have a couple of skills that generate Focus, and a Bunch that spend it. You can also spec up some other skills to generate additional focus. Essentially you have your entry technique (Force Leap) which generates focus and thumps the target, you have Strike which generates focus and Slash which spends it. They are both available all the time so if you have nothing better to do, spam them build spend and all is simple.

 

Next you get Zealous Strike, it pops up every 15 seconds and generates a nice big lump of focus So if that is available use it instead of Strike (This aint Rocket Science) On top of this you then get your set of other skills and talents, now which ones you use are going to be a bit situationaly dependent, and Talent Tree specific, for example I am deep in the Combat tree so Cauterize is a bit of a waste of time for me, but if you are a Watchmen then let it Rip.

 

 

Sounds pretty simple so far, but there is one more mechanic in the Sentinel, it is not complicated it is just a bit of a sideline. You also Build Centering, what causes this to increase is dependent on your build, but at the end of the day, it happens. You then spend it to enter either a Zen or Trance state, I am a fan of Zen, some people see the value of Trance, but at the end of the day, it just opens up a buff for you. Yes it is poorly identified when this becomes available, but hey we are talking a minor UI/concentration issue here not a class breaker.

 

 

So… The Mechanics aint Rocket science.

The next issue… Is it underpowered? We can see there are a lot of people who say they can put out list topping DPS in PVP, so some people are obviously able to make them work, I personally have grouped with people where I have been taking out mobs faster than them at the same level. So until we get ways to pass the damage logs this is all conjecture.

 

 

So on to crowd control, The Sentinel is a Front loaded damage dealer, it doesn’t pretend to be anything else. I personally come from having played a Ranger in the original EQ and absolutely loved Parking mobs. But that sort of absolutely CC disappeared with WOW and probably will never be seen again, so CC is a different game now.

 

So what do we have, We have Force Sweep, which has an AOE Stun with its AOE damage that will half way kill any standard mobs of equal level. We can talent up some other skills to also stun, and then we have Force Stasis. Yes we have to channel it, but it generates focus and gives us some time for out cool downs to cycle. So no we don’t have any traditional CC, but that is not really what we are designed for. But hey… Just kill em faster, then you don’t have to worry about CC.

 

 

No Interrupts… This is a bit of a weird one, because you see people whinging about this while other people are saying Use your interrupts. Force Kick, and Force Stasis, and if you are at a distance force leap all work as interrupts. Learn to Use em, Learn to love em. Nothing more need be said on the subject.

 

 

AOE… Remember Force Sweep from above. So if we have a second AOE we would be able to leap into a group of mobs, Sweep, hit with our Phantom AOE and… All mobs would be dead. Hardly seems balanced to me. We have enough AOE for what we are, we are about taking on a target and chewing them up, and in saying that we can AEO through trash and take no more than 5-10% damage (And that is at L29 (See notes later on that))

Cool downs are to long… This can be looked at from two perspectives, and I am still not entirely sure how people mean it. Call on the Force is the obvious one, 20 Minutes is a PITA this only causes you grief if you fail on a Boss fight and have to go back for seconds, because you really do not need this for anything but Boss fights.

 

 

For normal grinding through areas I alternate between Sabre Ward and Rebuke as I go through each group of mobs just for efficiencies sake, and if there is a Strong mob I use either Stasis or Pacify again not required but for efficiencies sake.

 

Now to put this in perspective I expect to be engaging a new encounter every 30 seconds, including taking them down. Some people talk about downtime… I mean to these people Suffer ADD if that is considered slow?

 

So down to that Undefined thing about level Progression. Apparently the class is All but impossible to play between 20 and 35. I am currently L29 and feel that the class is just coming into its stride Groups of 5 Standard mobs are like grass before my blades, Strongs cause me to pause, when I say pause I am talking as in a speed bump not a Toll gate. Once we get to elites I pay attention, And Class Quest Bosses I prepare for.

 

I hit a Stim, I make sure I have all my cooldowns ready to go, I make sure I have a medpack on a Quickbar slot. These cause me to concentrate, But hey they are meant to be a challenge. And yes Varis took me 4 goes to get, But when I got it right I still had half a health bar, & Lord What’sisnuts I took down without raising a sweat. So what happened in the mean time? I just got better.

 

I stopped mashing as many buttons and just focused on getting the job done, focused on making my interrupts count, focused on hitting him with the right attacks instead of every attack.

 

So… in short. There are things that could be improved with the Sentinel. It does take a little more to play than a face role character. But it is by no means an Insurmountable elitist class. Nor is it broken.

 

Yeah I would design a few changes into the class, I would make Zealous leap available to everyone, I’d change Disable droid to a stun on any mob type, and I’d make it so you could spec the minimum range of your leaps to a shorter distance. But none of this is class breaking, none of this makes the Sentinel broken.

Happy Hunting Padawan There are a whole world of experiences in the Sentinel grasp them with both hands and make the most of them, Don’t give in to Despair when listening to those who want to bemoan the class instead of exploring the possibilities.

 

[EDIT]Reformatted by RageFit (Thanks for that)[/EDIT]

Edited December 21, 2011 by Venator-Falco

[EvilZealot]

Amazing how people can't take the time to read anymore, but it wouldn't hurt to split that post up a bit. Loved it! If Bioware feels there is a glaring issue those changes will come in time. Fine a tree you like to play and learn through trial and error how to better play your class. If at that point you still hate how it feels find another one to play. Great post!

[firesprite_ea]

Very nice post.

In the beginning I was somewhat confused by three skill trees (I could not understand them at all >_<) but after I got some skill I realised that each tree is based on one sabre form and different tactics - so it all became quite clear afterwards.

 

Oh and one more thing! You do remember that this is an MMO so why play alone? In my case I play together with a friend (and we duo 99% of the time). Hi is a sage and I should say that Sent + Sage is a very mean killing team. I do not worry abt CC and health at all and simply concentrate on dishing as much dmg as possible and he does not have to worry abt mobs trying to get into melee with him.

On the downside (kinda) - class bosses are uber easy as we do all these quests together. We also do heroics 4+ with little to no difficulty. So, do not play alone!

[RageFit]

In These Forums you are going to read a vast amount of content about how Hard it is to be a Jedi Sentinel. How it is complicated, how it is underpowered, how the whole class is broken or “Borked” as one of the great detractors of the class puts it (Though he has never actually defined the word)

Inevitably this thread will turn into another thread with a lot of noise about how broken they are, but Take Heart.

 

 

If you want to learn to be a Jedi Sentinel it is not a suicide mission, it is a challenge, it is different, and it does take some concentration and intellect, but it is by no means some great elitist dark magic that only the exulted few will achieve.

I am going to start here by saying I am obviously not as good at playing the Sentinel as some of the people posting here. I am also playing a Combat Tree Sentinel which people are saying is no where near as powerful as the Watchmen, and Also I run with Kira instead of T7 all of the time (The concept of Ranged tanking seems silly and I have always had short tolerance for rolling garbage bins… Sorry I mean Astromech Droids. So what this tells you is that while I am not specced to make it easy, I am able to complete all of these challenges that are apparently to difficult. Which means if you want to spec it as the masters of the class do, your experiences should be easier than mine.

 

 

 

So, with all of that out of the way let us get started.

Obviously if you are reading this you have read Maefly’s Primer right?

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=47695

This is a solid starter. It covers most of the basics and shows you that this is all not black magic but a very understandable class.

So what are the things you are going to hear about the Sentinel, it is too complicated, under powered, has no crowd control, interrupts and no aoe also our cool downs are to long and the level progression is broked (There is that word again)

 

 

 

So let us look at some of these things

How complicated is the Sentinel, You have a couple of skills that generate Focus, and a Bunch that spend it. You can also spec up some other skills to generate additional focus. Essentially you have your entry technique (Force Leap) which generates focus and thumps the target, you have Strike which generates focus and Slash which spends it. They are both available all the time so if you have nothing better to do, spam them build spend and all is simple.

 

Next you get Zealous Strike, it pops up every 15 seconds and generates a nice big lump of focus So if that is available use it instead of Strike (This aint Rocket Science) On top of this you then get your set of other skills and talents, now which ones you use are going to be a bit situationaly dependent, and Talent Tree specific, for example I am deep in the Combat tree so Cauterize is a bit of a waste of time for me, but if you are a Watchmen then let it Rip.

 

 

Sounds pretty simple so far, but there is one more mechanic in the Sentinel, it is not complicated it is just a bit of a sideline. You also Build Centering, what causes this to increase is dependent on your build, but at the end of the day, it happens. You then spend it to enter either a Zen or Trance state, I am a fan of Zen, some people see the value of Trance, but at the end of the day, it just opens up a buff for you. Yes it is poorly identified when this becomes available, but hey we are talking a minor UI/concentration issue here not a class breaker.

 

 

So… The Mechanics aint Rocket science.

The next issue… Is it underpowered? We can see there are a lot of people who say they can put out list topping DPS in PVP, so some people are obviously able to make them work, I personally have grouped with people where I have been taking out mobs faster than them at the same level. So until we get ways to pass the damage logs this is all conjecture.

 

 

So on to crowd control, The Sentinel is a Front loaded damage dealer, it doesn’t pretend to be anything else. I personally come from having played a Ranger in the original EQ and absolutely loved Parking mobs. But that sort of absolutely CC disappeared with WOW and probably will never be seen again, so CC is a different game now.

 

So what do we have, We have Force Sweep, which has an AOE Stun with its AOE damage that will half way kill any standard mobs of equal level. We can talent up some other skills to also stun, and then we have Force Stasis. Yes we have to channel it, but it generates focus and gives us some time for out cool downs to cycle. So no we don’t have any traditional CC, but that is not really what we are designed for. But hey… Just kill em faster, then you don’t have to worry about CC.

 

 

No Interrupts… This is a bit of a weird one, because you see people whinging about this while other people are saying Use your interrupts. Force Kick, and Force Stasis, and if you are at a distance force leap all work as interrupts. Learn to Use em, Learn to love em. Nothing more need be said on the subject.

 

 

AOE… Remember Force Sweep from above. So if we have a second AOE we would be able to leap into a group of mobs, Sweep, hit with our Phantom AOE and… All mobs would be dead. Hardly seems balanced to me. We have enough AOE for what we are, we are about taking on a target and chewing them up, and in saying that we can AEO through trash and take no more than 5-10% damage (And that is at L29 (See notes later on that))

Cool downs are to long… This can be looked at from two perspectives, and I am still not entirely sure how people mean it. Call on the Force is the obvious one, 20 Minutes is a PITA this only causes you grief if you fail on a Boss fight and have to go back for seconds, because you really do not need this for anything but Boss fights.

 

 

For normal grinding through areas I alternate between Sabre Ward and Rebuke as I go through each group of mobs just for efficiencies sake, and if there is a Strong mob I use either Stasis or Pacify again not required but for efficiencies sake.

 

Now to put this in perspective I expect to be engaging a new encounter every 30 seconds, including taking them down. Some people talk about downtime… I mean to these people Suffer ADD if that is considered slow?

 

So down to that Undefined thing about level Progression. Apparently the class is All but impossible to play between 20 and 35. I am currently L29 and feel that the class is just coming into its stride Groups of 5 Standard mobs are like grass before my blades, Strongs cause me to pause, when I say pause I am talking as in a speed bump not a Toll gate. Once we get to elites I pay attention, And Class Quest Bosses I prepare for.

 

I hit a Stim, I make sure I have all my cooldowns ready to go, I make sure I have a medpack on a Quickbar slot. These cause me to concentrate, But hey they are meant to be a challenge. And yes Varis took me 4 goes to get, But when I got it right I still had half a health bar, & Lord What’sisnuts I took down without raising a sweat. So what happened in the mean time? I just got better.

 

I stopped mashing as many buttons and just focused on getting the job done, focused on making my interrupts count, focused on hitting him with the right attacks instead of every attack.

 

So… in short. There are things that could be improved with the Sentinel. It does take a little more to play than a face role character. But it is by no means an Insurmountable elitist class. Nor is it broken.

 

Yeah I would design a few changes into the class, I would make Zealous leap available to everyone, I’d change Disable droid to a stun on any mob type, and I’d make it so you could spec the minimum range of your leaps to a shorter distance. But none of this is class breaking, none of this makes the Sentinel broken.

Happy Hunting Padawan There are a whole world of experiences in the Sentinel grasp them with both hands and make the most of them, Don’t give in to Despair when listening to those who want to bemoan the class instead of exploring the possibilities.

 

skimmed through it and made it easier to read.

[KaiLunn]

Amazing how people can't take the time to read anymore, but it wouldn't hurt to split that post up a bit.

 

I always take the time to read a post when it's formatted decently. If my eyes bleed or I get a headache, I skip it and come back when the formatting is readable.

 

Please OP, go back and add some clearly defined paragraphs. Your opening looks like it has merit, but I can't read it.

 

Edit: Thank you RageFit. Going to read it now.

 

Double edit:

 

Very nice post. I fully agree that it's a class that takes practice. And the guide you reference is an awesome starting point.

 

+1 Internets, sir.

 

-Kai-Lunn

Edited December 21, 2011 by KaiLunn

[zehscion]

skimmed through it and made it easier to read.

 

still tl;dr version pls

[SunwindIon]

still tl;dr version pls

 

tl;dr

i'm going to further spread the false idea that sentinel is somehow harder to play so I can sit on my imaginary high horse and feel superior to other classes.

 

"oh no! I have to build focus and keep burns up on the enemy, so complicated!"

Edited December 21, 2011 by SunwindIon

[KaiLunn]

tl;dr

i'm going to further spread the false idea that sentinel is somehow harder to play so I can sit on my imaginary high horse and feel superior to other classes.

 

"oh no! I have to build focus and keep burns up on the enemy, so complicated!"

 

Except his post was pretty much the opposite of that. He's encouraging people to play and saying it's not as hard as it looks.

 

Maybe it just depends on your point of view. <shrug>

 

-Kai-Lunn

[SunwindIon]

Except his post was pretty much the opposite of that. He's encouraging people to play and saying it's not as hard as it looks.

 

Maybe it just depends on your point of view. <shrug>

 

-Kai-Lunn

 

well, it was tl;dr...

[KaiLunn]

well, it was tl;dr...

 

Point conceded.

 

-Kai-Lunn

[Lils]

To be honest even if it was a wall

 

I agree with the OP

 

I rolled combat Sentinal despite everyone saying watch man as i dont want to button damage i tailor my fights each time look at my souroundings what companion i have

 

if i come across a boss fight then i die on i look again on my rotation for that fight and make adjustments

 

+5 OP

[Venator-Falco]

It is good to hear that others are Enjoying the Sentinel as much as I.

[Graystone]

"I am also playing a Combat Tree Sentinel"

 

stopped reading there

[Barbibear]

Thank you for the time it took you to write up this post.

[DuriZap]

You dodge the subject of PvP very nicely with the following sentence: "....a lot of people who say they can put out list topping DPS in PVP"

 

I bet they can, if they are in a team who does the CC well. If Sentinel gets no CC help, he is a complete joke in PvP. Anyone can keep a Sentinel at bay with their CC, and Sentinel can do little to counter it.

 

They say can. Two classes have full DPS spec, smuggler and jedi knight (and their Sith mirrors ofcourse). So in reality, the sentinel should be way up there in most matches with the smuggler if the game was properly balanced. Otherwise, the description of the AC is simply wrong.

 

The problem to me is not PvE in anyway, it's PvP. A subject you literally left uncovered.

Edited December 24, 2011 by DuriZap

[EternalFinality]

You completely neglected the main complaint people have when they suggest Sentinel is hard to play - that you're fighting the terrible interface and input bugs constantly. Abilities either don't activate, or you get the stutter bug, OR BOTH.

 

THAT is the game breaking problem with Sentinel, not knowing how to play.

[Venator-Falco]

You completely neglected the main complaint people have when they suggest Sentinel is hard to play - that you're fighting the terrible interface and input bugs constantly. Abilities either don't activate, or you get the stutter bug, OR BOTH.

 

THAT is the game breaking problem with Sentinel, not knowing how to play.

 

So what you are saying (If I read you correctly) is the game its self has some issues.

Yep.

No Argument.

The game has some weird ways of calculating effects it has some elements that possible are effecting the sentinel because of the fast paced nature of combat for the Sentinel

That fast paced nature is part of what makes the class so much fun to play.

So from what you have said it could be fair to conjecture you have no issue with the Sentinel, but there are some game bugs that need addressing.

Good to see you agree with me.

[tausra]

I played as a Combat spec'd Sentinel until very recently (Level 25) and switched to a hybrid format. It's much easier when you don't rely on random chance hits (Ataru's passive) and can heal yourself. I feel my DPS has increased, and that I'm a little more resilient and less like glass. I honestly had no idea everyone considered Sentinel "borked" until checking on these boards. It is possible to survive, and thrive, as a sentinel, despite the misgivings of so many people. Edited December 24, 2011 by tausra

[Worsfold]

Im playing a watchmen sentinel at around 24 now. I love the PvE, and have no trouble soloing. I enjoy all the skills available makes me look real bad xxx.

[Kymix]

Watchman or bust.

[MBirkhofer]

I played as a Combat spec'd Sentinel until very recently (Level 25) and switched to a hybrid format. It's much easier when you don't rely on random chance hits (Ataru's passive) and can heal yourself. I feel my DPS has increased, and that I'm a little more resilient and less like glass. I honestly had no idea everyone considered Sentinel "borked" until checking on these boards. It is possible to survive, and thrive, as a sentinel, despite the misgivings of so many people.

 

Sure sure. not un-playble..

but go try a trooper. Any spec.

A gunslinger.

A sage.

[Obsx]

I am a level 50 sentinel and am hating it so much...

 

The class seems like it would prob be one of the best if not the best PVE dps but in pvp this class is an absolute piece of poo. i don't understand how people are saying that this class is fine in pvp, it absolutely boggles my mind.

[arthasess]

The meain issue it seems is not that we are bad but is that EVERYONE else is much better at pve and pvp. The starange thing is we get the hardest quests as far as i can see to....

All we need is a stun tbh. A close range melee stun. Like everyone else gets.

A challenge? Fine most people dont want a face roll class

Generally cra at everything compared to others? Not so great.

[Gun_Slinger]

“Borked”

 

Asked unfair questions on national television during a confirmation process for Supreme Court, as Judge Bork was, I think in the '80s. So 'Borked' has come to mean unfairly screwed.

[MBirkhofer]

The meain issue it seems is not that we are bad but is that EVERYONE else is much better at pve and pvp. The starange thing is we get the hardest quests as far as i can see to....

All we need is a stun tbh. A close range melee stun. Like everyone else gets.

A challenge? Fine most people dont want a face roll class

Generally cra at everything compared to others? Not so great.

 

Pve we are probably fine. (well, aside from combat)

 

 

My over-arching complaints about too much relying on long cooldown moves is still there.

2m resolute cc break. sabre ward, guarded by the force, centering/zen/trans/insp, channeled stasis, force camo, pacify.

This is an inferior package. It forces us into a place where, we are basically sitting around waiting for cooldowns between every fight in pve. And in pvp, our usefulness is also limited by what CD is up.

We are melee dps. with no CC. we need a better CC break/defense.

Aside from bugs, that is my biggest complaint in pvp atm. I get chain CC'd to death. aoe knockback, aoe knock back, ranged stun, ranged snare, aoe knock back.

My stasis is interrupted, by any ONE of the other team, as trooper/bh, and sage/sorcs, gunslingers, have aoe knockbacks. Instant aoe derp that completely ruins sentinals. as it takes no effort to aim. But it just negated your leap or stasis, and now you are snared out of melee range with no focus, possibly rooted. Awesome.

So now we have to blow force camo to get back in. Again, our not quite melee range moves, crippling throw, zealous leap, blade storm, are not quite long enough reaching. This would also go a long way.

Long duration, long range mez and stuns. again, everyone else has them.

 

Sure I feel like a hero when force camo, stasis, surge adrenal, healing pot, and sabre ward are up.. The rest of the time, Im getting thrown around like a ragdoll.

 

Never mind hutball. Oh, im in the pit again. Oh, im in the fire/acid again. Leg sweep snare... onto jump plate negating any snare.. Our snares do nothing there,

 

 

Its much of the same issue that was stated in beta. Lack of ability to close distance. while our over reliance on leap is still there. which again, is a problem as well. Leap being focus AND getting into range, AND interrupt, means we really need it. (lol cover)

Other classes have way more tools to keep us out of melee, then we have to get into it.

 

I'd like to see some CC resistance on Sentinels. 1min resolute at least.

gunslingers have more CC/roots, and immune to CC in cover.. that is completely backwards in design.

Edited December 25, 2011 by MBirkhofer