lol bolster

[underjollyroger]

I totally like the new bolster system. I quit the game a month ago, because it just isn't my thing to destroy ungeared players. Being a subscriber from the beginning I already have several geared toons. The outcome of a WZ was always dependent on who has more ungeared players on their team. So lately I stopped playing for objectives and was just trying to isolate another geared player for some 1:1 - usually always the same min/maxed guys.

 

Yesterday I logged in again - and pvp was so much fun! No stupid gear anymore and everyone on a equal basis. played just 5 matches, but absolutey enjoyed it! I had fights on an equal basis with guys I had never seen before! One match i got teamed up with a top geared premade and we almost lost!

 

I hope it stays like that.

[Twin]

another sidenote considering TTK. They can remove the bloody resolve bar altogether now...

 

Yeah, that's part of the problem right now in the pre55's. TTK is much faster now, but stuns and CC still have their original effect...this means that a stun now removes control from me during much more % of my lifespan then earlier, since the actual lifespan is shorter. -This ofc gives a frustrating feelling of allways getting stunned to death, specially if 2 or more burst DPSers are coordinated together with a stun and a 2-3 highdmg attacks each.

[Twin]

Another thing i was thinking about is the mainstat increases we can get from our skilltrees. Is there any reason to pick those up or will Bolster boost them to about the same levels anyway? Or are those 1-3% extra "Endurance" calculated last in order so that it adds on top of bolster and other increases/decreases?

[Atramar]

He is saying that naked bolster doesn't exist in 55 lvl? Yesterday had a wz after waiting like 2hours for it on 55lvl when i took off every single item on me except lightsaber i had more WP than with full ewh augmented + some partisian and 1 conqueror item so that's basically bull******** players that the naked bolster does not affect 55lvl wzs.

 

EWH is a bad example. you should test with Tier1 L 55 pvp.

old elite gear is below 'new recruit entry level'

[Xerain]

Hey everyone,

 

Just wanted to let you know that I am grabbing questions/feedback from this thread and passing it on to the PvP and combat teams. I should have answers to some of your questions, etc. a bit later on today. Thanks!

 

-eric

 

There's nothing wrong with bolster LOL. People don't seem to understand that we're scaled to level 55 and that we're gaining more from that. With the bolster being on slot now people don't understand nothing in the slot = level 55 and if there's something in the slot you get a slight buff off it.

 

Gear doesn't matter in the lower brackets guys and at 55 the bolster is only going to go to the base stats and not going to be better than the top tier pvp gear for the level 55 bracket.

 

Sense. I made some.

[Twin]

There's nothing wrong with bolster LOL. People don't seem to understand that we're scaled to level 55 and that we're gaining more from that. With the bolster being on slot now people don't understand nothing in the slot = level 55 and if there's something in the slot you get a slight buff off it.

 

Gear doesn't matter in the lower brackets guys and at 55 the bolster is only going to go to the base stats and not going to be better than the top tier pvp gear for the level 55 bracket.

 

Sense. I made some.

 

Congratulations.

 

Oh, btw they stated in this very thread that it's indeed bugged in more then 1 way.

 

Thank you for your contribution.

[Ycoga]

Thank you for that update Eric.

 

There's no such thing as perfect code.

[Arutar]

There's nothing wrong with bolster LOL.

 

You totally missed the second developer post where they stated that bolster is officially messed up.

 

LOL?

[picee]

wouldnt the issue be solved if bolster just gave everyone the same stats it would be an even playing field regardless off naked or dressed once again pts working as intended this bug was on the pts and actually made it in to game ....

 

time to open ticketting for the pts

 

i tested it i used the naked bug on the pts

 

i didnt report it why cus off the hassle writing it on the forums !!!

[Slurmez]

Hey everyone,

 

Just wanted to let you know that I am grabbing questions/feedback from this thread and passing it on to the PvP and combat teams. I should have answers to some of your questions, etc. a bit later on today. Thanks!

 

-eric

 

See, now that sounds very much like the current state of the pre 55 wz are working as intended in spite of the earlier dev post saying its broke. "Questions/feedback" makes out that the playerbase just dont understand the issues which were pointed out and reported extensively on test. It could have been avoided for the most part if a sensible stats cap was put in place, you could have even put in a modifier for stances.

 

I did a few warzones on a 50 sniper and it was pure bs, i melted literally everything in full pve gear (i did not go naked) where a 5k+ hit was previously a rarity, almost everything leaving my gun hit for 7-8.5k. I was also incredibly mobile as a marksman spec, head towards them, leg shot (now 35 meters) outside any jump range, crouch, pew pew pew dead and next target.

[atschai]

Ex: We want to make sure your level 11 without a helmet is getting some stats for their head slot to be equal to the level 25 with a helmet.

 

Ummm.... The problem occurs in the 30-55 bracket. Anyone who does not have a helmet, relic or implant by 30 does NOT deserve to be bolstered.

So your argument is invalid.

Edited April 10, 2013 by atschai

[Arutar]

See, now that sounds very much like the current state of the pre 55 wz are working as intended in spite of the earlier dev post saying its broke.

 

Ahem, THAT was the first post. The second posts said its broke.

[Master_Carlu]

Sorry, I currently don't have the time to read though the responses so I'll just say my piece here.

 

What was the response with regards to the ability gap between 30s and 50s? Surely people have thought that a 30 would have less set of skills than a 50... even with bolster, I'm still going to have a hard time keeping up with someone who has a complete set of abilities at his/her disposal.

[foxmob]

Ummm.... The problem occurs in the 30-55 bracket. Anyone who does not have a helmet, relic or implant by 30 does NOT deserve to be bolstered.

So your argument is invalid.

 

LOL. true.

 

I believe implants are the last thing you get, and you can craft implants at 25. there are schem drops that allow implants as low as 21. So honestly, by 25, you should have something in every slot. I don't know the coding required to underwrite this, but them's the facts, ma'am. Empty slots at 25+ should be penalized rather than rewarded, imo.

[mulzii]

wouldnt the issue be solved if bolster just gave everyone the same stats it would be an even playing field regardless off naked or dressed once again pts working as intended this bug was on the pts and actually made it in to game ....

!

 

^^this. Why is it so hard to put a 54 lvl hard value for stats for every class? eg. everyone in 30-54 pvp has the same lvl 54 hp. The dmg is raised to the lvl 54 values of the skill in question. (eg. smash's dmg is scaled to lvl 54 in recruit gear).

 

Why is this so complicated?

[stephenalandavie]

And here was me thinking the fix would of been today, too optimistic i guess.

[gurneyslabb]

Bolster should have a slight looking into but not far as much as people claim on this thread

Level 54s who mysteriously got there by quest stacking should not have a clear advantage over lowbies

[Totaltrash]

There's nothing wrong with bolster LOL. People don't seem to understand that we're scaled to level 55 and that we're gaining more from that. With the bolster being on slot now people don't understand nothing in the slot = level 55 and if there's something in the slot you get a slight buff off it.

 

Gear doesn't matter in the lower brackets guys and at 55 the bolster is only going to go to the base stats and not going to be better than the top tier pvp gear for the level 55 bracket.

1. Gear ALWAYS mattered in lower brackets - hence the lowbie twinks.

2. Playing ANY bracket better naked than geared indicates a serious problem.

Sense. I made some.

 

Sense, you made none.

[Slurmez]

And here was me thinking the fix would of been today, too optimistic i guess.

 

It was reported day one of test and they did nothing to change it, to not be able to rectify this its just poor planning, design and coding so typical day at Biowares offices.

[LarryRow]

I believe implants are the last thing you get, and you can craft implants at 25. there are schem drops that allow implants as low as 21. So honestly, by 25, you should have something in every slot. I don't know the coding required to underwrite this, but them's the facts, ma'am. Empty slots at 25+ should be penalized rather than rewarded, imo.

 

Not to mention you can get implants from the lowbie pvp vendor at 20. I heard he was moved to Coruscant. Bolster should not work on empty slots in 30-54, that's for sure.

 

another sidenote considering TTK. They can remove the bloody resolve bar altogether now...

 

^ This

 

It is now quite easy to kill someone in the duration of a single stun.

[Darth_Vampirius]

Hey everyone!

 

I was able to spend a bit of time today talking to Rob Hinkle and Alex Modny about the PvP changes and although they are busy right now working on getting solutions to some of these issues, I wanted to pass on some explanations on what is going on.

 

What is the purpose of “naked” bolster? So I want to clarify why Naked Bolster exists. For Bolster we need to have a system that impacts Warzone players from level 10 to level 55. To do this we want to make sure characters are on as even a playing field as possible. However, when you were leveling up your main, when did you get your first helmet, implant, or relic? In the level up game we have certain points where characters have not yet received certain items and we don’t want to punish these characters because they don’t have access to certain items while higher level characters have plentiful access, so they both get bolstered up to the same level to create a more equal playing field.

 

Ex: We want to make sure your level 11 without a helmet is getting some stats for their head slot to be equal to the level 25 with a helmet.

 

With that being said, we do not intend for naked Bolster to be better than wearing gear of any type. This is a bug with the system that we are adamant on fixing and attempted to fix on PTS. The truth is that when we fixed one aspect of the system we opened up another edge case. Last night when it became apparent we had not done enough to fix the issue we started an investigation (yes at 3am CDT in the morning) and have been working all day on a plan of attack to shore up this system so that it is fun and balanced for all parties.

 

More specifically the issues we have discovered are how the Bolster system handles Relics and diminishing returns. Currently on live, Bolster is giving too many stats to the Relic slot, meaning if you don’t use a Relic (naked Bolster) you will get more stats than the Relic itself would give. Actually different stats entirely since most Relics have Endurance and a proc effect. This means that taking off Relics will give you more primary damage stat and secondary stats and you will probably lose Endurance. How Bolster looks at Relic slots needs to be redone so that stats it assumes are present or should be present are more in-line with Relics that are present and we are working on that currently.

 

The other issue we found in our investigation is that Bolster’s diminishing returns are too generous and giving out too many stats over the course of a set. Our item system uses a diminishing returns formula on each individual stat on a mod, so that putting more and more of a stat on a single mod costs more “item budget.” The Bolster system follows the same formulas, but because it gives more frequent smaller values that are added together, each stat takes a less harsh diminishing returns hit. Taken over the course of an entire set, the result is that a fully Bolstered character tends to have gained some small values in each stat and rating over actual items. To fix this we need to massage some numbers to make diminishing returns affect Bolster stat gains more drastically.

 

It is important to note that “naked Bolster” is never intended to be better than wearing gear, this is a bug and is going to be fixed.

 

How does this affect level 55? Bolster will bolster characters up to right below Partisan gear, the new level 55 PvP set gear. This is working correctly from what we can see and means that the Elder Game will not have this issue of “naked Bolster.” Partisan and Conquer gear are still highly valuable and give better stats than Bolster so that max level PvP should be intact as we designed, it is just unfortunate that the system has bugs in it that make getting to that point frustrating.

 

Because of the bolster changes and general changes to 2.0 combat math you will see larger numbers during combat. We have given out more health with levels which means more damage to counter it. Also, in 2.0 the gear gap has been closed significantly. In pre-2.0 the gap was roughly (very roughly!) 80% difference between Recruit and fully augmented Elite War Hero gear. Closing this gap means that PvP battles will be on a more equal footing but you might be experiencing damage and heal numbers you hadn’t seen before the patch.

 

Hopefully this post has addressed some of your concerns about the current state of PvP following Game Update 2.0. Again, naked Bolster being as strong as it is right now is a bug and is not intended design. We have outlined above what our current plan is for addressing it but this is always subject to change. I will do my best to keep you all updated on how and when these changes will happen. Thank you all for your questions and feedback.

 

-eric

So, my question to you is this... Where is the PVP PROGRESSION now? In my view, it has been removed from the game. IMO, level 10's with no head item *should* get owned in PVP. In the current system, level 10s are wrecking balls.

 

Why do we have brackets now? Answer: We have brackets now because you didn't want players to see naked level 10s owning fully geared 55s, and thus instantly figure out that bolster is terrible. That's exactly what would happen with no brackets. You'd have naked level 10s getting 1 million ++ damage in a WZ.

 

Honestly, bolster is the enemy of character progression, and it needs to go! Progression should mean something in the game.

[HotStuff_SW]

By the way, has anyone else noticed that full EWH gear does NOT give max Expertise?

 

From the Dev Blog:

Wearing a full set of any of the new PvP sets, War Hero, or Elite War Hero gear will put players at that 2018 expertise cap.

 

I have full Elite War Hero gear, and I'm below 2000 (something like 1980 or so). Anyone else?

[bodhisattvasw]

So, my question to you is this... Where is the PVP PROGRESSION now? In my view, it has been removed from the game. IMO, level 10's with no head item *should* get owned in PVP. In the current system, level 10s are wrecking balls.

 

No they should not, and this is exactly what is broken in many MMO PVP. Warhammer was disastrously broken in PVP because of gear gaps, and Hickman knows this full and well. It basically destroyed the game. Imagine having characters in the game that can take on 5-6 other people quite easily, and how this will deflate the fun for virtually anyone trying to compete.

 

Rift had similar issues, and desperately tried to fix them - and never really accomplished this. You had RR80 people instantly killing RR40 people that did nothing wrong other than try to play the game as it was intended to be played. They lost hundreds of thousands of players because of the insane gear gap between new max level players, and existing ones. This of course was FUN for the RR80's, stomping face of the newbs. But it drove off important paying customers.

 

SWTOR had a huge issue with gear gap and level early on. Remember? Some folks rushed to 50, and were placed in warzones with level 10's. It was not pretty, and drove off legions of customers. It is one of the reasons I quite the game early on, and I guarantee hundreds of thousands quit for this reason. They added in a bracket for 50's which solved PART of the issue. But the bolster still was not effective enough to compensate. I suspect the reason for the rage right now is a lot of people that were used to stomping face, aren't doing it any longer. People that relied on gear to faceroll, aren't facerolling anymore, and are angry.

 

A lot of hack-like guilds with premades are having immense trouble facerolling in 50+ PVP right now. On my server it was hilarious to watch 'Smell my Finger' get their arses handed to them all last night in 50+ PVP. Where the bolster is effective, and working. However these same guys were destroying pre-50 PVP last night because they 'abused' the naked mechanics. The answer to cheaters like this is a 'normalization', and then skill becomes a primary factor, and people feel SATISFIED over battles. When it is gear based, people don't feel satisfied because there are always kiddies that mini-max gear to take advantage of others.

 

Guildwars2 and other MMO's are setting the standard with normalized PVP and Cosmetic gear advances. Putting the fun and challenge back into PVP by making it skill based, rather than gear based.

[islander]

It was reported day one of test and they did nothing to change it, to not be able to rectify this its just poor planning, design and coding so typical day at Biowares offices.

 

This.

[islander]

By the way, has anyone else noticed that full EWH gear does NOT give max Expertise?

 

From the Dev Blog:

 

 

I have full Elite War Hero gear, and I'm below 2000 (something like 1980 or so). Anyone else?

 

It's the relics, I think. Everything else is the same. They added more expertise to the relics, because no one was using them on PTS (because they suck)