Why not be able to change between advanced classes?

[GammaOn]

This is a question I've asked several times in-game and the responses I'd get are along the lines of "It's a different class"... no.. no it isn't. When you see a Sorcerer and an Assassin, they are inquisitors with completely different styles of play, and it pisses me off that not being able to change between them locks me out of half of the fun the class can bring me. Hell, I really don't want to spend more hours and hours getting a character to level 12 or so with the same quests... and the same story... just to find out that my time may have been wasted. So seriously,. why can't I change between them? Your story is tied to your base class (inquis, warrior, etc.), not your advanced class, so there's no reason you shouldn't be able to...

[CaldaRaric]

More diversity instead of just four classes per faction? Would be way too easy if you could just be everything. Why don't they just let you have all the skill tree stats unlocked too? I like it the way it is just fine.

[Ratajack]

This is a question I've asked several times in-game and the responses I'd get are along the lines of "It's a different class"... no.. no it isn't. When you see a Sorcerer and an Assassin, they are inquisitors with completely different styles of play, and it pisses me off that not being able to change between them locks me out of half of the fun the class can bring me. Hell, I really don't want to spend more hours and hours getting a character to level 12 or so with the same quests... and the same story... just to find out that my time may have been wasted. So seriously,. why can't I change between them? Your story is tied to your base class (inquis, warrior, etc.), not your advanced class, so there's no reason you shouldn't be able to...

 

They are different classes. You do not see a player's class as inquisitor-assassin or inquisitor-sorcerer. They are assassin or sorcerer--two totally different classes stemming from the same basic class. They may share the same story line, but they are not the same class.

[Purple-Punch]

Very simple answer .. they want you to grind another character .. pretty simple dude .. or dudette.

[Stormskimmer]

This is a question I've asked several times in-game and the responses I'd get are along the lines of "It's a different class"... no.. no it isn't. When you see a Sorcerer and an Assassin, they are inquisitors with completely different styles of play, and it pisses me off that not being able to change between them locks me out of half of the fun the class can bring me. Hell, I really don't want to spend more hours and hours getting a character to level 12 or so with the same quests... and the same story... just to find out that my time may have been wasted. So seriously,. why can't I change between them? Your story is tied to your base class (inquis, warrior, etc.), not your advanced class, so there's no reason you shouldn't be able to...

 

Can you tank with a sorcerer? No, sorcerers are not a tank class. They are a healing or dps class.

 

Can you heal with an assassin? No, assassins are not a healing class. They are a tank or dps class.

 

They share a few abilities, just like paladins and rogues in Everquest share a few abilities. Even then, many of those abilities work differently for each advanced class. As for play style, there's more similarity between a sorcerer and a mercenary than a sorcerer and an assassin. When you have more in common with a class that doesn't even use the same type of armor or weapon than the "other version of your class," perhaps you should reconsider whether you think they are actually the same class.

 

Yes, they do have the same story, but most games share stories between certain classes so that's hardly reason to demand you can switch between them freely. Heck, after the first three chapters, every character shares the same story. Should we be allowed to switch freely between a juggernaut and an assassin if we've completed chapter 3 of the class story?

[Darth-Obvious]

This is a question I've asked several times in-game and the responses I'd get are along the lines of "It's a different class"... no.. no it isn't. When you see a Sorcerer and an Assassin, they are inquisitors with completely different styles of play, and it pisses me off that not being able to change between them locks me out of half of the fun the class can bring me. Hell, I really don't want to spend more hours and hours getting a character to level 12 or so with the same quests... and the same story... just to find out that my time may have been wasted. So seriously,. why can't I change between them? Your story is tied to your base class (inquis, warrior, etc.), not your advanced class, so there's no reason you shouldn't be able to...

 

Let's say you're playing as a Jedi Knight and you pick you pick Guardian as your advance class. Then when you're let's say level 25 or higher decide you want to change your class to a Sentinel. For starters you'd no longer be able to use any of the Heavy Armor gear you'd acquired as Sentinels can't use Heavy Armor meaning you'd have to purchase a bunch of level equivalent gear off the GTN. If you don't have alot of credits you'd basically end up screwing yourself in this regard.

 

The other problem you'd have is you'd suddenly have no clue how to play your character class. This wouldn't be much of a problem at level 15, but at higher levels you'd have difficulty adjusting and pose a a big risk to any group based play. There's probably a small percentage of people that could adjust with no problem from having played a similar class on the opposite faction, or prior MMO experience, or whatever, but the majority of players wouldn't.

 

There have been alot of complaints about the double exp creating problems with leveling people too fast to the point that they don't know how to play their class properly when it comes to group missions. I can only imagine how much worse it would be if you could change your class.

 

I'm personally not against being able to switch advanced classes, and I've definitely wanted to at certain points, however I can see the reasons why they don't allow it.

[Khevar]

This is a question I've asked several times in-game and the responses I'd get are along the lines of "It's a different class"... no.. no it isn't.

 

...

First, let me say that I don't personally have an objection to an AC respec.

 

But your logic is flawed. You say it "isn't a different class". Yes, yes it is.

 

I have a Vanguard and a Commando. I also have a Shadow and a Sage. I also have a Powertech and a Mercenary, and I have an Operative and a Sniper.

 

I can tell you that these are completely different classes, one to the next. One is a melee class, one is a ranged class. One can tank, the other can heal. They are in no way, shape or form, the same class.

 

That said, if Bioware were to add an AC respec with the price going up with each level (so an AC respec at 35 is would be vastly more expensive than one at 15) I could see a value to it. I myself didn't like my operative and wanted a sniper. And I hated Kaliyo so the thought of restarting gave me hives. Had there been AC respec, I would have used it.

 

But don't use the argument "they're not different classes" Because they ARE.

[flippimonkee]

This is a question I've asked several times in-game and the responses I'd get are along the lines of "It's a different class"... no.. no it isn't. When you see a Sorcerer and an Assassin, they are inquisitors with completely different styles of play, and it pisses me off that not being able to change between them locks me out of half of the fun the class can bring me. Hell, I really don't want to spend more hours and hours getting a character to level 12 or so with the same quests... and the same story... just to find out that my time may have been wasted. So seriously,. why can't I change between them? Your story is tied to your base class (inquis, warrior, etc.), not your advanced class, so there's no reason you shouldn't be able to...

 

 

Hey dude,

 

I started playing SWTOR seriously, just a couple weeks ago. I never played beyond the first few levels prior to this, but I had the Star Wars itch and decided to finally sub. I now have a couple mid level toons and I am wondering the same thing. There seem to be no reason for it. Infact I am at a loss as to why a player cannot simply pick and choose what abilities they want to focus on from all of their respective advanced classes. If there is was a legitimate Action Bar and Passive Bonus Limit it would work perfectly.

 

The differences between the base classes is not obvious either. From say Warriors/Magicians as an example. I am not sure why there are classes in the first place outside of Soldier, Force, and Stealth. I honestly think it is simply a way to fill space. If you think about it those 3 classes could be leveled with every skill for that class in the game, and with a limit of 2 or 3 hotbars and you have a very flexible system. Not to mension a much longer and more involved character creation as you played through the game. It would also fill the story just fine. A Smuggler does not take sides like the Bounty Hunter unless they chose to, and what motivates them determines their alignment. Same with Force and Soldier. A player could chose to start on a planet that leans towards one side or the other, but after that their actions and choices determine the final outcome. Further more builds could be saved and activated outside of combat at anytime. So a player could focus on a play style but have the option to also focus on other styles available. So in essence you could do everything, but to balance you couldn't do it all at once.

 

To take it a step further, I see no reason to have to chose a side at character creation. Of course there is a war, but a player could spend time chosing for themselves what they want to do and who they want to fight for. As their alignment started to shift in direction or another the abilities they have available would change and focus. The factions would also start opening or closing options to the player as they progressed. That would mean you start as a Soldier and could move to either a Republic trooper, Imperial Trooper, or go the Soldier of Forture route and play as a Bounty Hunter. All the base classes could easily have been given this workover. However it is more comfortable and traditional to have these "advanced" classes. The story would not have to change much either. the starting areas would have to be either revamped or a whole new set of areas created until the player decided who they initially wanted to work for. From a business perspective this would be awesome. 2 character slots for F2P would be sufficient, but would temp free to play peeps to add more since there would be only a few more slots needed to cover an entire side without really covering all the possibities. Keep the carrot close and juicy and they will bite.

 

The issue for me is just my own preference in character developement and creation. I like to feel in control and as if I have a choice. That is not available in any form here. The Moral system makes no sense if I am stuck with either Empire or Republic right off the bat. There is also no way to play neutral and actually shun taking any side of the war. Good minded players would do so to avoid taking any real side, as both are self absorbed and destructive. Evil would do so as an opportunist knowing both sides will simply destroy eachother and become vulnerable. Neutral would be on the fence where Moraly/Professionally there would be no side taken, but logically it would be the most solid in the basics but have no real advanced capabilities. To argue the "war excuse", it is the people on the fence that make the difference. This was where the Rebels defeated the Empire in the orginal and sacred episodes 4 - 6. But also this could open a door to players recruiting players. Cartel points could be used to unlock these missions for F2P and give bonuses for Subbed Players. It would also open up more items for customization and even new companions. The possibilities are endless for both the standard and Cartel markets.

 

To push this idea I think this would make guilds so much more important. And the planets would be under more chaos as players would work anywhere and "duels" would have consequences. Guilds could war openly in given areas and their alignment would give credit to one side or the next. What about the theoretical neutrals? Recuit mercenary Guilds for a fee to give your side the advantage. But beware as your guild could be double crossed. On top of that Neutrals could be hired by players on either side to grab "intel" or "resources". Intel would open up crazy quests, and resources could be used to advance crafting and even items available at vendors. This is all back and forth. Neutrals are not loved or trusted completely by either side, so if they were picked on or harassed by one side, they could ask for help from the other. For a price of course. And of course there could be a tracking system implemented on Most Wanted or even if a Neutral worked to much for one side they would have to do allot to get jobs from the other side.

 

I don't know everything of course. Far from it. Play with it guys. It can't hurt. If you agree or not it is a game in and of itself to play the "what if" card. Let's have some fun.

 

Now, will this happen? Not likely. As I said I am new and I have little time invested in the game. There are people who have spent a year+ building and tweaking their maxed toons. I respect that as I have done this many times over on other titles. Though I think this change would actually benefit them the most with extended end game and new tweeks. I love tweaking. (no pun intended)

 

I truly like this game and Star Wars. There are a million ways to go about such a rich title. I always hope the best for it. I don't want to ever hear that this game will shut down or even be a burden for Bioware. (sorry EA but you guys are huge and should be doing just fine) I want to help and I hope this is read and met with constuctive thought. I did not cover half of what I got in this melon of a head I have. But this post is ridiculous. So I am going to stop. I promise. I am stopping. See I have stopped. Just now.

 

Peace and Love,

 

F

Edited April 6, 2013 by flippimonkee
grammar and spelling corrections, and some added thoughts

[Eurynamous]

Who dragged this dead horse out of the pile of rejected idea corpse pit?

 

Now, I don't think I need to cover what has likely already been said about Advanced Classes and how they're actually the core classes. Or how the first 10 levels are just a tutorial of how the base mechanics work on the class?

 

I mean, you're all capable of mechanically breaking down the differences of each actual class after extensive gameplay? You all have been here since beta and read every dev discussion in regards to the fact that these are fundamentally, mechanically and shiny fluff stuffed different, right?

 

We really don't need to drag ourselves through broken glass and tears of the "Pro-AC" dual/respeccing drama, again, do we?

 

How about this, we assume this is a troll thread and put the dead horse back in the dirt. You don't need to beat it again... You could also use search or dig into the forums history and review the discussions that are already decaying in this heap of lost cause.

 

If you don't like it, make an alt or a new character. The game has been out long enough for people to research and use that ability to read before finalizing their advanced class choices.

 

 

Bury this unsightly corpse, I never want to see it again.

Edited April 6, 2013 by Eurynamous

[TheLordMagnus]

its called balance

 

and yes they are different play styles all and all no way near the same this is a stupid question

 

dual spec yes dual class hell no

Edited April 6, 2013 by TheLordMagnus

[nateslice]

I found out at about level 13 that the Assassin playstyle didn't work for me. So, I deleted that character and made a new Inquisitor to go Sorceror. It wasn't anything remotely resembling a big deal.

[Bomyne]

Because they arte different classes. And the ability to change between classes wrecked SWG's class system. It means the class choice is trivial. Imagine switching between a priest and a paladin in WoW.

[AlexDougherty]

It would be stupid to be able to change advance classes, virtually everyone would play the Jedi Knight as Sentinel until around level 30 then switch to Guardian as the class becomes hard (read as Marauder then Juggernaut for Sith Warrior), these play very differently, it would be like changing from a Jedi Shadow to a Trooper, the flow is just wrong.

 

If you don't like the style of play create a new character, besides if you stick at the class the flaws become workable, take the Jedi Sage, I found he was virtually unplayable between level 25 and 33, but found around 34 his powers started coming back into usefulness, yes he was still a major pain, but a playable pain.

[Altyrell]

Aye, as others have said, they are essentially different Classes as they play differently.

 

Sorcerers/Sages are more attack from afar

Assassin/Shadows are more about attacking from behind

Snipers are more about sniping and doing stuff from afar whereas the Operative are also about being close/up close & behind

Gunslingers & Scoundrels are similar to the above Sniper/Operative.

so on and so forth.

 

Not to mention, while some might have similar Armor type, they have different weapons. Sniper - Operative (Sniper Rifle - Blaster Rifle); Commando - Vanguard (BFG - Blaster Rifle)

 

Then there are some who have both different Armor type & Weapons. Juggernaut/Guardian - Marauder/Sentinel (Heavy/Single wield - Medium/Dual Wield)

[Hyfy]

They are different classes. You do not see a player's class as inquisitor-assassin or inquisitor-sorcerer. They are assassin or sorcerer--two totally different classes stemming from the same basic class. They may share the same story line, but they are not the same class.

 

Thy are different ADVANCED classes. The base class and base class abilities are the same. That said, I would not mind having the ability to do a one time AC change between your base class. And before someone decides to go all hyperbolic and take what is being said out of context, within your base class NOT changing from a Merc to a Sin for example.

[Bomyne]

Thy are different ADVANCED classes. The base class and base class abilities are the same. That said, I would not mind having the ability to do a one time AC change between your base class. And before someone decides to go all hyperbolic and take what is being said out of context, within your base class NOT changing from a Merc to a Sin for example.

 

A scoudral and a gunslinger are different classes. Changing between them is no different than changing from a Commando to a Jedi Guardian.

[SolsticeDreams]

A scoudral and a gunslinger are different classes. Changing between them is no different than changing from a Commando to a Jedi Guardian.

 

Yes but the Class Quest is the same, and so are the choices of the Base Class. So switching Adv Classes would not mess with any of that. It would be a matter of just learning the play style of that Adv Class.

[Ratajack]

Yes but the Class Quest is the same, and so are the choices of the Base Class. So switching Adv Classes would not mess with any of that. It would be a matter of just learning the play style of that Adv Class.

 

The beauty of the current system is that you can learn the play style of the other advanced by rolling a character of the other advanced class. You are not limited to only one advance class on your account, just on each character.

[Solo-Jo]

It would be Nice to be able to Respec to the other Advanced! It sucks when you get to like the 20s and decide you dont like the class you chose and really dont want to reroll.

[Darth_Moonshadow]

Key word Advanced CLASSES. You never swap a class for another in an MMO short of rerolling. That's the rule. Don't like it? Make your own MMO with an ability to swap classes and play that. Them's the rules. Deal with it and move on, man.

[MegaCrowder]

Key word Advanced CLASSES. You never swap a class for another in an MMO short of rerolling. That's the rule. Don't like it? Make your own MMO with an ability to swap classes and play that. Them's the rules. Deal with it and move on, man.

 

This.

[spectreclees]

This is a question I've asked several times in-game and the responses I'd get are along the lines of "It's a different class"... no.. no it isn't..

 

Yes, yes it is. It stems from the same class sure. But if I'm playing a Hunter in WoW should I be allowed to change to a Priest? No of course not as it's a different class. Just because it stems from the same exact story class doesn't mean it's the same thing. The "Inquisitor" class is just their for story purposes. Nobody can play an Inquisitor and do actual content like NM OPS.

[flippimonkee]

Hey guys!

 

There are allot responses to this. AWESOME!!

 

So yes there are fundamental differences in (Advanced) Classes, and I continue to level and those differences are obvious. But if I may.

 

Changing between Jedi and Trooper would be silly. Changing between Class (advanced) BUILDS would not be. As an example there are a few games that do this, and one in particular that does it very well and is not f2p due to it's overall success. No, it is not the most inventive and no I will not name it. I am not going to plug another game. That is lamers and I dislike people who do that out of suspicion that they are Trolls for the game they are refering to.

 

The original post here is a bit simple. ADVANCED classes merely diversify the base class by 2. SO you can be damage/heals, damage/tank. Watered down that is what you get. Of course there is ranged and melee. Then you pick one and you are set. It makes your roll simple and straight forward. It doesn't make playing that roll simple, just that you know generally what your purpose is in that grand sceme.

 

What I was suggesting, and again this would never happen, is that the split and faction be removed. Skills/Abilities availablitity would be limited by Moral standing, Point allocation, and of course level. So instead of having static Advanced classes, you have a general overall class, and then a player customized build. Like I said there are games that do this, and a few that do it quite well. So break the limit and scope. Yes, I play those games, and no I will not stop playing this game. That would be counter productive for everyone. And I like Star Wars. ALLOT!

 

As for changing classes, that is also silly. I merely stated changing Builds of a class. Is there a difference? Yes, I am not argueing that. I am exploiting that. To be able to change a BUILD would help suite the situation. Someone said people would play one class between certain levels, and they would then switch at later or other levels. That is again refering to the Advanced classes as a singular and whole package. I am saying BUILD within the entirety of the Class/Advanced. (hypothetical) I have a level "whatever" that is BUILT for ranged heals, but I want to sneak and do melee damage. Why? Because I do. If I create a new Build, save it, then activate it with those skills, boom I can play it and still be that CLASS. Also I have a new Build to fiddle with and refine while my original build is saved and ready when I want to go back to it. Just a different approach to it. Instances become more fluid as players can activate builds to compliment one another instead of a Dps who forgot to uncheck Tank and is really spec'ed more to damage, and that is all it can do. Instead it can activate a tank build and not lose the fun of doing dps when it wants to. Also making class stacking on a server virtually non exisistent. I actually do have a tank and heals for that reason. I get more Flashpoints in and I have a good time in PvP as everyone seems to be my bestest buddy. And these build slots could be sold in the Cartel Market to F2P'ers. EH! Not to shabby.

 

That's all guys. Classes don't change. Their flexiblity and the overall player experience is expanded. I can argue all day that this makes sense across the board. So I am not arguing it or even arguing in the first place. What I am saying is how would you do it? If you wouldn't and like things as they are then ignore this post and I hope to heal or protect you in the near future. SNIP SNAP WAAAAH JEDI!!!

 

SO calm down. Trolls say ridiculous things like, "Jedi should have lightsabers coming out of their ears. This game sucks!!" or "I don't like space combat so I am out here!!" Illogical and to behonest Space combat isn't what I hoped but it's there, and every seems to generally agree as to what they wish it was. ROGUE SQUADRON I misseth thee alloteth yee ththththth!!! No this post and the million before and after won't change a thing. So don't stress. General Discussion forums are for General Discussion. Stop defending the status quo and participate in open discussion. I am not trying to change the dev's minds. That would be like inviting a Rancor to a tea party and expecting a pleasant afternoon.

 

Peace and Love

 

F

[Arlbo_Nabbins]

Thy are different ADVANCED classes. The base class and base class abilities are the same. That said, I would not mind having the ability to do a one time AC change between your base class. And before someone decides to go all hyperbolic and take what is being said out of context, within your base class NOT changing from a Merc to a Sin for example.

 

No, they are different classes. Consider the Guardian/Sentinel. While they share the Jedi Knight abilities and some abilities are in both the Guardian/Sentinel trees there are abilities in the lists that are not shared. They also use different gear, Guardian wear heavy armour and enhancements and augments should lean towards defence/shield/absorb. Sentinels wear medium armour and enhancements and augments should not need defence/shield/absorb.

[Uvirith]

because there are no advanced classes. at level 10 you choose your class after the tutorial. bioware just did a terrible job by naming it advanced class.