I Hate Overload/Force Wave

[grallmate]

Interesting. It's Aimed Shot / Ambush actually. And it only works if the mob is within 10 meters.

 

When I'm in grouped content (flashpoints or ops) I'm seldom closer to 10m from a mob, unless I've pulled aggro and the mob is running towards me. In which case that particular knockback has value. Do the gunslingers stack near you during combat or something?

 

Snipers/Sligners have the longest range in the game for a reason -- they don't need to be within 10m of the tank.

 

I have a Sniper rather than a Gunslinger so wasn't sure of the terminology. Just trying to keep it all in Republic terms but unsure of the mirror name, hence the (?). Despite the ability to remain at range, I tend to see ranged DPS staying very close to the mobs and melee. Often around the 8-12m mark rather than the 25-30m mark.

 

I know most Sharpshooter and Marksmen take that talent as a filler, hell I even did when I was running Marksman since the alternative was the lowered CD on Leg Shot and I didn't PVP a lot. However, as a tank I HATE that talent. It provides a knockback on a rotational ability for the spec. Ultimately, like all KBs player skill is more important but this one brings range into consideration and that is often overlooked.

[Vegabond]

Seriously.

 

No other single ability in this game makes me want to kick someone out of a group faster.

 

I play a Sin tank and a PT tank on the Imp side. Having mobs grouped up in tight little balls benefits me greatly. I enjoy being able to hit everything all at once and allow my group mates to AoE til their heart is content. And that's usually when the Sin/Sorc DPS/Healer decides that using Overload for it's "good damage" is worth sacrificing the Snipers/Ops Orbital Strike or PT/Mercs Death from Above.

 

Transversely, I play a Sage TK DPS and a Sent Force Sweep machine. I enjoy being able to utilize some of my best DPS on multiple mobs in tightly packed bunches.

 

I really wish they would remove the damage from this ability so people would stop using the ability as anything more than a knockback.

 

/endrant

I feel your pain!

[steave]

Thinking about it more, part of the issue is probably that overload/force wave is given out so early. Jet boost (the merc ability) does damage too, but you barely ever see anyone use that.

I suspect that's because when you get overload, you're so low leveled and the enemies so weak that the damage from it is actually noticeable in combination with not really having much else to use except your basic attacks, while the merc gets his half way trough dromund kaas where it has already stopped being anywhere near effective and you have many better options.

[Kitru]

I suspect that's because when you get overload, you're so low leveled and the enemies so weak that the damage from it is actually noticeable in combination with not really having much else to use except your basic attacks, while the merc gets his half way trough dromund kaas where it has already stopped being anywhere near effective and you have many better options.

 

I actually think it's because Shadows don't get their automatic AoE (Whirling Blow which, even then, is friggin' terrible; Peckenpaugh has even admitted that it costs *way* too much Force to do way too little damage) til 24 and Sages don't get Forcequake til 34. It's not that you get it early. It's that you don't get any other attacks that can be viewed as AoEs (which *every* other class gets at least 1-2 of) until way later. Players are used to having an AoE given to them early on and, since Force Wave is the only attack that hits multiple targets and could be construed as such, they default to it being the equivalent of Sticky Grenade, Thermal Grenade, or Force Sweep (since it's given at a similar level and the only other option is that they simply *don't* have an AoE damage attack, which often doesn't cross their minds).

[jediharrsion]

Seriously.

 

No other single ability in this game makes me want to kick someone out of a group faster.

 

I play a Sin tank and a PT tank on the Imp side. Having mobs grouped up in tight little balls benefits me greatly. I enjoy being able to hit everything all at once and allow my group mates to AoE til their heart is content. And that's usually when the Sin/Sorc DPS/Healer decides that using Overload for it's "good damage" is worth sacrificing the Snipers/Ops Orbital Strike or PT/Mercs Death from Above.

 

Transversely, I play a Sage TK DPS and a Sent Force Sweep machine. I enjoy being able to utilize some of my best DPS on multiple mobs in tightly packed bunches.

 

I really wish they would remove the damage from this ability so people would stop using the ability as anything more than a knockback.

 

/endrant

 

sounds to me like you've been knocked off the bridge in voidstar/huttball one to many times. The overload/force wave are just fine the way they are.

[Kitru]

sounds to me like you've been knocked off the bridge in voidstar/huttball one to many times. The overload/force wave are just fine the way they are.

 

He's not agitated about the ability itself. He's agitated by the predominance of players that use it thinking it's an AoE damage ability rather than a knockback utility. Force Wave/Overload themselves are perfectly fine. The problem is the perception of *so many players* concerning it (and how using it under that perception ends up making life harder for everyone else).

Edited March 29, 2013 by Kitru

[jediharrsion]

He's not agitated about the ability itself. He's agitated by the predominance of players that use it thinking it's an AoE damage ability rather than a knockback utility. Force Wave/Overload themselves are perfectly fine. The problem is the perception of *so many players* concerning it (and how using it under that perception ends up making life harder for everyone else).

 

And your right overload/force wave are not AoE attacks because they don't do enough damage to called a attack. they are suppost to be knockbacks.

[iEuthanasia]

He's not agitated about the ability itself. He's agitated by the predominance of players that use it thinking it's an AoE damage ability rather than a knockback utility. Force Wave/Overload themselves are perfectly fine. The problem is the perception of *so many players* concerning it (and how using it under that perception ends up making life harder for everyone else).

 

This.

 

I'd be more accepting of AoE knockback abilities being used for damage, no matter how meager, provided I had a way to AoE pull mobs back.

[Khevar]

This.

 

I'd be more accepting of AoE knockback abilities being used for damage, no matter how meager, provided I had a way to AoE pull mobs back.

Like Karagga's suck-the-players-in vortex ability! That would be pretty cool to use on trash pulls.

[iEuthanasia]

Like Karagga's suck-the-players-in vortex ability! That would be pretty cool to use on trash pulls.

 

Exactly.

 

Knockback type abilities could put some kind of debuff on mobs that has no tangible effect and doesn't prevent further knockbacks. Then, so long as this abilitiy is up, all targets with the debuff within say, 15m are affected by pull type effects.

[NrDLeipe]

knockback is designed to protect yourself as a dps, you get hitted by x amount of mobs lots of damage you knockback and it gives you a sec to breath. ( dont use it for damage my farts hurts more then that )

 

Not useing knockback on certain moments is just common sence, if you see tank aggros 5 mobs he groups them up so the dps can nuke them faster it should be common sence not to break that group with a knockback.

 

That vortex idea, awesome can imagine how fun the pulls will be , would be op in pvp though

[Helig]

I'm guessing you haven't heard that in 2.0, Force Wave does healing.

 

So in that pug, that healer might just bounce those adds away from you and claim "but I'm healing ..."

BWAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHA! Made my morning!

[Makais]

You don't hate Overload m8. What you hate is a bad player... Me on the other hand, I hate (a lot) Overload! I hate since it's conical and useless and bugged... You get the picture.

[biguydeadd]

To me it isn’t the abilities that are annoying; it is the players that don’t know when to use them. I would add tanks pull and sage pulls of abilities that can be annoying if the player don’t know when to use them. Same thing with force leap, although watching a sage use force wave and a knight use force leap at the exact right moment is a thing of beauty. The enemy goes flying off ledge followed closely by knight.

 

Rofl,i would PAY to see that one.

[grallmate]

Rofl,i would PAY to see that one.

 

False Emperor tanking on my Assassin and Shadow I like to pull the droid to the edge and KB them off. 3(!) times in 1 run the same Marauder leaped at the mob right as I knocked it over the edge. All 3 times he leaped to his doom and never learned. It was really quite entertaining.

[Eternalnight]

False Emperor tanking on my Assassin and Shadow I like to pull the droid to the edge and KB them off. 3(!) times in 1 run the same Marauder leaped at the mob right as I knocked it over the edge. All 3 times he leaped to his doom and never learned. It was really quite entertaining.

 

I have seen similar thing happen few times. The most fun thing that can happen in there.

[Marb]

I feel like the healing component should be accompanied by an elimination of the knockback entirely, even if it means the heal is greatly buffed. The healing is going to encourage some pretty rotten behaviour in flashpoints.

 

Off topic, but a tanking skill to make it pull affected enemies into the assassin/shadow would be super awesome, and skills that alter an abilities effects like this would be very interesting if implemented on a wider scale.

[ufarax]

I have seen similar thing happen few times. The most fun thing that can happen in there.

 

Happened to a Marauder in Cademimu...I teased him for the rest of the run. I'm on his ignore list.

[iEuthanasia]

I feel like the healing component should be accompanied by an elimination of the knockback entirely, even if it means the heal is greatly buffed. The healing is going to encourage some pretty rotten behaviour in flashpoints.

Yea, placing points into the perk/talent could remove the knockback. It would be pretty bad for PvP though if that were the case.

Off topic, but a tanking skill to make it pull affected enemies into the assassin/shadow would be super awesome, and skills that alter an abilities effects like this would be very interesting if implemented on a wider scale.

Could set up some interesting stuff, even for other abilities. Though I'm not so sure that it should be Shadows/Sins who get it. I haven't been able to test 2.0 so I'm not sure who has what now for tanking, but Jugg/Guardian seems to be the most likely candidate since they lack a pull of any kind.

[Kitru]

I haven't been able to test 2.0 so I'm not sure who has what now for tanking, but Jugg/Guardian seems to be the most likely candidate since they lack a pull of any kind.

 

The general set up for tanks is that each of the classes gets 2 of 3: a leap, a pull, and a push. VGs get a leap and a pull, Shadows get a pull and a push, and Guardians get a leap and a push. If Guardians were to get access to a pull (especially an AoE pull), it would screw up the balance between the tanks (especially since it would be giving Guardians, who already have the most general utility amongst the tanks, even more utility).

[JimmyTheCannon]

Yea, placing points into the perk/talent could remove the knockback. It would be pretty bad for PvP though if that were the case.

 

Could set up some interesting stuff, even for other abilities. Though I'm not so sure that it should be Shadows/Sins who get it. I haven't been able to test 2.0 so I'm not sure who has what now for tanking, but Jugg/Guardian seems to be the most likely candidate since they lack a pull of any kind.

 

I've tested the Juggernaut 2.0 stuff. It's great, but there's no pull.

[Spartanik]

The problem arent the knockbacks that are there the PROBLEM is the players that dont HAVEA CLUE HOW TO PLAY their classes and the game itself.

[iEuthanasia]

The general set up for tanks is that each of the classes gets 2 of 3: a leap, a pull, and a push. VGs get a leap and a pull, Shadows get a pull and a push, and Guardians get a leap and a push. If Guardians were to get access to a pull (especially an AoE pull), it would screw up the balance between the tanks (especially since it would be giving Guardians, who already have the most general utility amongst the tanks, even more utility).

 

Perhaps give it to all tanks then and make it require a "recently shoved" debuff? Can function similarly to the abilities being removed that require incapacitate.

 

I always felt like Sin/Shadow was vastly more "go-go Gadget" when it came to tanking all things considered. Having never played a Jugg/Guardian tank I have to accept outside input on it.

 

The problem arent the knockbacks that are there the PROBLEM is the players that dont HAVEA CLUE HOW TO PLAY their classes and the game itself.

 

Most of the players who "don't have a clue" I'm sure don't read the forums to gain any insight either. And like Kitru pointed out, there's several factors of why Overload/Force Wave usage is prevalent more so than any of the other abilities. It's mentioned in an AoE rotation on Noxxic. It's one of the only AoE attack Consulars and Inquisitors have for quite some time. And frankly, the ability changed to be more in line with what many would consider more offensive in nature. The 360° "Oh sh*t!" button was replaced with a more targeted conal attack. And I could be way off, but it seems like the damage is slighty increased over what it was while it was a 360° attack. Then again, I may just have better gear now.

[LarryRow]

The general set up for tanks is that each of the classes gets 2 of 3: a leap, a pull, and a push. VGs get a leap and a pull, Shadows get a pull and a push, and Guardians get a leap and a push. If Guardians were to get access to a pull (especially an AoE pull), it would screw up the balance between the tanks (especially since it would be giving Guardians, who already have the most general utility amongst the tanks, even more utility).

 

Except that shadows can force speed anywhere they want. They have tons more utility, cmon.

[LarryRow]

How about when the tank is the one doing it? We've come across the same sin tank twice now in FPs who loves to push his enemies.... usually while we're aoeing.

Sometimes he charges up and leads with a push

We tried explaining...

We tried telling him "dude don't do that! "

He stopped for a bit then restarted.

So we gave up and decided to laugh about it each time he did it.

 

Was this on Prophecy of the 5? Did he approach from stealth and open with Overload? I might have seen this guy. In my case, it wasn't really ruining the FP, and we slowly talked him through what he should be doing for the duration of it. He seemed noticeably improved by the end.

 

I have to say that as annoyed as I get with bad players, I really enjoy playing with people who are intelligent and just new to the game.