Selecting need for loot

[Beaunidle]

as companions are not participating in group content, even if they could use the loot, the common courtesy is to give priority to actual players - seeing as their actual participation is what determines how well group content goes. personally I ask before rolling need on a piece for companion, usually after seeing what the rest of the group chose. I've never been told no. but I also don't ask (and don't roll), if actual player needs it.

 

if someone rolls for their companion without asking and wins over person who needed an upgrade? I'll shrug and put them on ignore at the end of the run. I'm pretty casual when it comes to loot, but I don't like playing with inconsiderate people.

 

Same here although I'll probably start a votekick if it's clear that the person is selfish and doesn't care if he/she is depriving a player in the group.

Every class in the game has companions and all bar 1 has a healer that's cunning based.

The common social convention is need for direct upgrades to the char there and greed for alts and companions.

[Galbatorrix]

I'd also like to add that I have 5 level 50 characters that use every single stat. I also have tons of legacy gear. I could go into an Operation and genuinely use everything that drops for one or more of my alts. Things like this is why most players expect people to greed on items their PC can't use. If you wanted to start justifying needing on items that you could technically use elsewhere, then everyone would need roll on everything and you'd be lucky if you ever one a single piece of loot ever again.

[SithKoriandr]

Now I'm just curious...

 

Running Black Talon on my Agent (Medium Armor Class), a Black Talon Marauder Tunic drops (Medium Armor Adaptive Chest Armor with +STR Mods)...not only do I need that piece of armor for the look and adaptive armor, I want it!

 

However, that said, the mods would of course be switched out.

 

What's the ruling? You can obviously use the item, and the replacing of mods is going to happen to anyone who rolls for it anyways.

[DarthSylar]

Now I'm just curious...

 

Running Black Talon on my Agent (Medium Armor Class), a Black Talon Marauder Tunic drops (Medium Armor Adaptive Chest Armor with +STR Mods)...not only do I need that piece of armor for the look and adaptive armor, I want it!

 

However, that said, the mods would of course be switched out.

 

What's the ruling? You can obviously use the item, and the replacing of mods is going to happen to anyone who rolls for it anyways.

 

If you explained at the begging you wanted said item for looks, I'd probably be ok with it, if no one was in desperate need of the stats.

 

The better question is, if I am a Vengence Juggernaut and use the same stats as a Marauder, would we both roll need on the same items even though one uses heavy armor and the other medium? To me I'd say yes, because 99% of players rip the mods out of shells and I can use the mods just as much as the other player.

 

Several times this has been brought up on the forums and no one has given a legit reason as to why it's not OK.

[DarthSylar]

I'd also like to add that I have 5 level 50 characters that use every single stat. I also have tons of legacy gear. I could go into an Operation and genuinely use everything that drops for one or more of my alts. Things like this is why most players expect people to greed on items their PC can't use. If you wanted to start justifying needing on items that you could technically use elsewhere, then everyone would need roll on everything and you'd be lucky if you ever one a single piece of loot ever again.

 

Yea that's why master loot is a must for any op you run with a random group. I was running 16 man Xeno, when a pair of DPS Warrior Hazmat Gloves dropped that I could use. A pyrotech won the roll for it, and when i asked him why, he said his friend asked him to so he could get "a second roll" (friend was a sorceror).

 

I added both to my ignore list, but since I was only there for the gree tokens, I didn't get too pissed. Last time I run anything end game without master loot. Low level flashpoints aren't that big of a deal, I can solo them on my 50s and send the gear over via legacy, so while it's annoying, it wouldn't invoke the same reaction as if it were end game gear.

[Beaunidle]

Now I'm just curious...

 

Running Black Talon on my Agent (Medium Armor Class), a Black Talon Marauder Tunic drops (Medium Armor Adaptive Chest Armor with +STR Mods)...not only do I need that piece of armor for the look and adaptive armor, I want it!

 

However, that said, the mods would of course be switched out.

 

What's the ruling? You can obviously use the item, and the replacing of mods is going to happen to anyone who rolls for it anyways.

 

If there's a marauder there that doesn't need it whole or the mods I'd ask politely and only need if no-one objected. Basic good manners.

[mdob]

If i did the same flashpoint 30-40 times in the hopes of getting an item then i must clearly be stock raving mad when I could just go hunt for an item thats even more powerful or complete other missions that will allow me to purchase a more powerful item. Theres no way i would do the same mission that many times in the hopes of getting one specific item...

 

You are showing your ignorance here. End game players know which items are "Best In Slot" and will do flashpoints or operations repeatedly to obtain the item. This may not apply to you yet, but if you advance in your game play you will be thankful for these social conventions. The community would fall into anarchy if we all used your current logic. If you choose to play with the rest of us, you will be kicked and ignored until you conform or run out of people to group with. Just accept that there are things you do not understand yet. The wise man knows he knows nothing.

[TheGreatFrosty]

Came across two flashpoints yesterday where I was verbally talked down to by a gamer each time for winning loot for my companion. I dont understand the big deal. Why the sense of entitlement over another gamer? If I see an item that would be needed for my companion to equip im going to roll for it. If someone else wins it, cool, good for them as far as im concerned. If i win it f, suddenly there are problems.

First flashpoint came across an item, i passed as neither i nor my companions needed it, Second one selected need for my tank. Got it. Third one, great for my tank, selected need, got it again. Then got told I was scum and voted off.

Second one, passed on two items, third one great for my tank, selected need and was told I had no right if it was for my companion and that I cant select need. I say why not? Out of 13 loot drops in that flashpoint i chose need on 2. How is that greedy?

 

As far as im concerned, im a paid subscriber. Why should some other gamer dictate to me what I can or cannot do to benefit them? If someone wants help on a mission or flashpoint and asks me, ill have no problem helping them but if i see something my tank needs, im selecting need. Im certainly not going to cry over it if someone else wins it. This sense of entitlement over someone else is baffling. There is no rulebook in the game that states that you cant do it and everyone who rolls for it has an equal chance

 

Etiquette, accepted standards, respect to the other, the thin hope that a human being would not be completely selfish.

 

There are a few reasons why people would expect you not to do this.

[codycroft]

OP is either a troll or a dishonest little Sh*t. He is gaming t he system and knows it. Common etiquette is the Need for your toon's upgrade, greed everything else. Those are the basic rules. If you ask if you can need prior to the FP then everyone knows the new rules. People like the OP don't say they want new rules at the start specifically so they can hit need and auto win that particular item because everyone else hit greed.

[DarthSylar]

OP is either a troll or a dishonest little Sh*t. He is gaming t he system and knows it. Common etiquette is the Need for your toon's upgrade, greed everything else. Those are the basic rules. If you ask if you can need prior to the FP then everyone knows the new rules. People like the OP don't say they want new rules at the start specifically so they can hit need and auto win that particular item because everyone else hit greed.

 

exactly, hence the tern ninja. you know people will get upset and hope that no one notices and you get the item you want.

 

BTW, would it be against forum rules if each server had a Ninja list? players can list the name (or legacy name) of known ninjas. you'd have to take it with a grain of salt, because someone could just be trolling, but it would be cool.

[JPryde]

Now I'm just curious...

 

Running Black Talon on my Agent (Medium Armor Class), a Black Talon Marauder Tunic drops (Medium Armor Adaptive Chest Armor with +STR Mods)...not only do I need that piece of armor for the look and adaptive armor, I want it!

 

However, that said, the mods would of course be switched out.

 

What's the ruling? You can obviously use the item, and the replacing of mods is going to happen to anyone who rolls for it anyways.

The ruling is to actually use the chat and ASK, if it is okay to need it for the looks only.

 

Seriously, 99% of all social problems could easily be solved, if people were actually still talking to each other.

[Jeweledleah]

If you explained at the begging you wanted said item for looks, I'd probably be ok with it, if no one was in desperate need of the stats.

 

The better question is, if I am a Vengence Juggernaut and use the same stats as a Marauder, would we both roll need on the same items even though one uses heavy armor and the other medium? To me I'd say yes, because 99% of players rip the mods out of shells and I can use the mods just as much as the other player.

 

Several times this has been brought up on the forums and no one has given a legit reason as to why it's not OK.

 

if it were another game, I'd say because marauder cannot wear heavy armor like you can, so you have a gearing advantage over them already. but like you said - we're ripping out mods here.

 

so I'd say - if its a non tier piece, you both have equal right to it. personally. on a larger scale of things - communicate with the group and go with common decision. I would ask and explain. but I'm used to playing games where heavy/medium armor division actually makes a difference.

 

the thing about SWTOR is that gear is pretty easy to come by, so it really all comes down to community established behavior rules more then anything else. do you want to get along with people or be a lone wolf?

[Ratajack]

wait a minute, wait a minute. so your opinion is mature and people who disagree with you are childish and entitled?

 

ok then.

 

people have explained to you already why its not a good thing to do, for multiple reasons. you simply refuse to listen. don't be surprised when your flashpoint queues start taking longer and longer to pop then.

 

I'm not sure who you were addressing, but I think that trying to force my values upon others and expecting them to do as I choose to do and complaining when they do not is an immature attitude. Everyone has their own set of values and makes their own choices based on those values. In my opinion, the mature attitude is to accept this fact and not simply refer to those that have different values by derogatory names.

[Ratajack]

im guessing they asked the group first? Nothing wrong with wanting the cake and eating it too if the rest of the group confirms they are okay with it.

 

Not one of those players bothered to ask before needing for their companion, but everyone of them claimed need for character only when a piece they wanted for their character dropped. Maybe I've just had bad luck with groups. As I said, it was usually the tank that exhibited that type of behavior, so maybe I've just had the bad luck to be grouped with tanks who feel that since they are the tank, they can do whatever they want.

[Ratajack]

You could have chosen to roll for greed but you chose to roll need - automatically denying everyone who used greed for what it is for.. That is the action of a selfish person. And to then say that for others to deny you the right to deny them is extremely entitled is the height of hypocrisy.

 

Please show me where to find an in-game tool that defines what greed is for. I have not yet seen anything to define what greed is for versus what need is for, other than this "unwritten rule" invented by players trying to ensure that they get that new shiny they want.

[Lostpenguins]

But i would never force others to choose need or greed, one or the other, I would let them make that choice rather than attempt to dictate to them the decision they have to make.

As for that is what greed is for, can someone, anyone who knows this please show me a link on this site by the developers where it says exactly that? That greed is meant for companions only? If someone can direct me to a link that says (By developers) that greed is for companions then fine, i will do exactly that because that is what the game design is for.

If I were able to choose to play flashpoints with my companion rather than my character to need for the loot then I could see the point being made, but I dont have that choice, I HAVE TO play with my character therefore I play with my character to benefit my companion. Thats the choice i have.

Please show me where to find an in-game tool that defines what greed is for. I have not yet seen anything to define what greed is for versus what need is for, other than this "unwritten rule" invented by players trying to ensure that they get that new shiny they want.

OP and Ratajak: I really hope you're trolling, if not, then it's as simple as this: you're breaking the general code of etiquette in the gaming community. It doesn't matter if you don't agree to it. It doesn't matter if it's official or not. That's a simple rule of life. You break a general rule of etiquette and you will be ostracized by the community.

 

You can either:

1) Change

2) Continue to play that way and wonder why people reject you

3) Find like-minded people to continue this behavior

Edited March 18, 2013 by Lostpenguins

[Ratajack]

but when you choose need instead of greed it is NOT a fair roll - so your statement doesnt stand.

 

By choosing need you automatically deny everyone who chose greed.... so they have a right to express their unhappiness at you choosing need if they felt you did not actually need it. Because need puts you at a higher position than greed - you have to be able to justify your actions to the group; and if they do not deem your explanation satisfactory they have every right to boot you.

 

Unless of course you were referring to people whining that you got an item when you selected greed - in which case i totally agree with you:)

 

Everyone of those people that chose greed had the same option to choose need. They made the choice to roll greed. No one forced them to make that choice. No one attempted to deny them the chance to roll. They made that choice of their own volition. It is the same choice I make when faced with that decision. When I make that choice to roll greed if that shiny is not an upgrade for my character, I do so knowing that it is possible that someone will roll need for whatever reason. I believe that because I chose to roll greed when I knew there was a possibility of someone rolling need, if someone rolls need, it would be immature of me to complain or attempt to punish the player who rolled need.

 

"Mom, Johnny took that toy I might have wanted even though I left it on the floor."

[Ratajack]

So OP - just to clarify, you're happy with

 

1) Going into a flashpoint with 4 other players,

where you are the only consular

where the only columi piece that drops at the end is a willpower one that is a significant upgrade for you

and a jedi knight needs this item and takes it for his/ her Kira?

 

2) Repeating the above scenario three more times, with the consular piece dropping only once more and again you losing the roll to someone who says they need it for their Kira?

 

3) Going into a flashpoint with 4 other players, where everyone needs every single drop?

Because after all each player should be able to determine how they roll for themselves?

 

I'm curious what you would consider unreasonable or unfair behavior.

 

I'm not the OP, but I am fine with each and everyone of those scenarios. In fact, I've lost rolls to companions and congratulated the winner. It's not the end of the world. I will run the FP again, and that piece will drop again, or something better will drop. As I said in a previous post, I had to run an instance 43 times in that other game before I finally got the caster shield, after having lost it 4 times on previous runs-twice to the pally tank.

[Ratajack]

agent = cunning

kaliyo = aim

 

agent can swap with doctor or temple

 

My mistake. Thank you for the correction.

[Ratajack]

Players A, B and C don't want player D to pass on the roll, they want him not to simply take the item, which is what happens if he rolls need and everyone else greed. So he's denying them their chance at the item. If they don't want that to happen, they all have to roll need. Which leads to the scenario I described in my first post.

 

Everything you just said you've said before and it doesn't answer my questions to you. I accept that you don't always roll need and yet seem to think it's fine if someone does, but then why wouldn't everyone always roll need? Why do we have the system of need/greed in the first place?

 

Of course it's not the end of the world. It's an item in an MMO. It's utterly insiginficant, but if none of us cared, we wouldn't be playing this game, would we?

 

Player A vanguard tank

Player B sentinel DPS

Player C gunslinger DPS

 

Player D scoundrel healer

 

Aim chestpiece drops. How is telling player D that he cannot roll need on that chest piece (that might be a huge upgrade for Corso) when the tank rolls need (even if he is already wearing the same chest piece) not denying Player D a chance at that chest piece?

[SlimsPicken]

But why is their character more important? I play with my companion beside me every second im not playing a flashpoint and my companion is critical in my winning each mission. So i dont understand why their gaming is more important than mine. I dont understand this sense of entitlement that someone else has over another gamer. If you pay for a game it should not be dictated on someone elses terms how you play should it? As long as you arent cheating.

 

...

 

hope you enjoy your one piece of gear and doing the FP over again after the kick.

[SithKoriandr]

The ruling is to actually use the chat and ASK, if it is okay to need it for the looks only.

 

Seriously, 99% of all social problems could easily be solved, if people were actually still talking to each other.

 

Which I have done (ask), it was more a curious thing, in that, since I'm using it, on my character, do I need to even bother asking?

 

What exactly constitutes Need? Obviously, it's items your PC can use, well, my Agent (if I had started leveling one up yet), could use that item, and would use it, just wouldnt be fore the mods. It'd be for the adaptive armor piece.

[SithKoriandr]

Player A vanguard tank

Player B sentinel DPS

Player C gunslinger DPS

 

Player D scoundrel healer

 

Aim chestpiece drops. How is telling player D that he cannot roll need on that chest piece (that might be a huge upgrade for Corso) when the tank rolls need (even if he is already wearing the same chest piece) not denying Player D a chance at that chest piece?

 

This is a good point!

 

I've seen to many times, players rolling NEED on items they already had equipped, and they didn't need it. Really, how many times do you need that lightsaber? You have it equipped already!

[Lostpenguins]

Player A vanguard tank

Player B sentinel DPS

Player C gunslinger DPS

 

Player D scoundrel healer

 

Aim chestpiece drops. How is telling player D that he cannot roll need on that chest piece (that might be a huge upgrade for Corso) when the tank rolls need (even if he is already wearing the same chest piece) not denying Player D a chance at that chest piece?

That's obvious that Player A is also in the wrong as he's rolling on need for something that wasn't an upgrade to his personal toon.

 

Although I haven't done a FP in over a month, when I was, I never needed anything as I'm full BiS. I was just going for the BH comms. Still, I never rolled need. Didn't even need to look at the drop. None of it, obviously, was going to be an upgrade. So I rolled need. Then if someone asked if they could roll need because they wanted the mods, or off-spec, or for a comp I didn't care.

 

That's how you do it (both on my end and the other peoples' ends) unless you want to get ostracized.

[PlayLoud]

That's obvious that Player A is also in the wrong as he's rolling on need for something that wasn't an upgrade to his personal toon.

This. If it's not an upgrade for your character, it's not a Need. Even if you are the only appropriate class there.

 

I this situation, I (as a Vanguard tank) would roll Greed if the item wasn't an upgrade. If player D rolled Need without asking, I would be upset. If he asked, I would give my consent to roll Need.