Selecting need for loot

[Hyfy]

Does the amount of contribution matter? If it does, then what if the companion contributes more than the player? I've been on flashpoints with three players and one companion. If the companion contributed as much as any of the players, does that change things? Is it okay to Need for the companion then? How about if the companion contributes *more* than the player's own character (say, a healer companion and a player who keeps idling)? In that case, would one have to Need for the companion and Greed for the player's own character, since the former contributed more?

 

There is one major flame to your argument. Companions don't get to roll on items, only the 3 players do. I understand what you're getting at but your argument is vastly flawed.

[Samy_Merchi]

There is one major flame to your argument. Companions don't get to roll on items, only the 3 players do. I understand what you're getting at but your argument is vastly flawed.

 

So, the amount of contribution doesn't matter, then? That's what I was getting at. No matter the amount of contribution, or lack thereof, companions should always get Greed. That was my point, highlighting, in response to an earlier post, that the amount of contribution a companion has, does not matter.

[Jonrobbie]

You violated a basic stricture of SWTOR-etiquette, and one I am doubtful you were ignorant of.

 

To be blunt, the gear that drops in Hard Mode Flashpoints and Operations are for Endgame Content; therefore the argument that you need said gear for your companion, whom you cannot use in the content said gear is designed for, is fallacious.

 

You are complaining that you were, rightly mind you, censured for your blatantly selfish and anti-social behavior.

 

You were and are in the wrong.

 

Is there a link to a site or thread regarding this basic stricture of SWTOR etiquette for me to read? Or are we to assume that everyone who plays this game are seasoned mmo players.....add to that, who makes these etiquette rules? If not the developers then who? If the gamers, then should it not be the responsibility of those gamers making sure everyone who begins this game is aware of the rules rather than presuming? As for the gear being for end game content, im playing the game, and im using my companions....end game content is it not considering its level 50 missions?

Edited March 17, 2013 by Jonrobbie

[Spartanik]

Everyone I've ever grouped with has followed these rules and asked(the polite thing to do) if they could need for a companion or alt and received permission before doing so.

 

This ^^ if anyone wants to need for a companion asks. Its what most people do, its what i do. Then there are the entitled players like the op that think they can need on anything just because it pays a subscription.

Well he can need it because the game mechanics alows it, but then dont be suprised by the consequences.

I would certainly voted him out too.

I had a gunslinger once on hammer station that needed on a wilpower item that i needed as well for my sage, he didnt even wanted for a companion but for a alt.. he said....

His excuse was that was f2p and didnt wanted to spend money in the game because wasnt rich?! i mean as if anything of that had anything to do with the issue. He got vote kicked and ignored.

Edited March 17, 2013 by Spartanik

[Cernow]

Fair enough, I just find it immature that there are certain gamers who believe that they have a sense of entitlement over other gamers for something which everyone worked together to find.

 

So that'll be you then. Hypocrisy at its finest.

[sgtpsych]

Is there a link to a site or thread regarding this basic stricture of SWTOR etiquette for me to read? Or are we to assume that everyone who plays this game are seasoned mmo players.....add to that, who makes these etiquette rules? If not the developers then who? If the gamers, then should it not be the responsibility of those gamers making sure everyone who begins this game is aware of the rules rather than presuming? As for the gear being for end game content, im playing the game, and im using my companions....end game content is it not considering its level 50 missions?

 

This is my first mmo and I figured it out in my first heroic. I just ask who the drops were for and the guidelines for need and greed. I didn't know. I thought I could use it anyway I want. Funny thing is that almost all of the ops and fps I've been in shared the same rules. Every once a while someone needs something for a comp before asking about it. Usually it is a newer player. He apologizes and the group moves on. But if someone is arrogant about it, usually he gets kicked. I suggest posting this topic in general chat. You may get some responses, but I bet you will also be asked if you are trolling. It is part of the social norm and what is considered acceptable behavior by most. The other gamers did teach you the consequences of this behavior. They could have treated you with kid gloves, instead they chose the rod. They did not want to take the time out explaining all the etiquette, but you still got the message.

[-Wes-]

You select need on stuff just because you feel like you are entitled to a quarter of the loot?

 

Huh? I think you misread what I wrote. I rarely select need. What I said is that no party member is entitled to loot just because they feel they can use it. All members should, on average, walk away with an equitable share.

[CelCawdro]

That it does. My judgement call is that everyone who participates in the fight has the right to roll and if anyone tries to deny another player the right to roll, I will attempt to vote to kick. I generally only roll need for a direct upgrade for my character, as I have said. That is my personal choice. I do not begrudge anyone the chance to roll on any loot they helped to produce. The fact that my trooper uses aim does not entitle me to that aim chest piece over the smuggler who could use it for corso.

 

Maybe I'm just used to playing with a slightly more mature class of player.

 

I would take the stance that loot produced in a companion-less environment should not take those absentee companions into consideration. Corso wasn't there. Companions aren't as much a part of your character as your own - they are absent in full groups, operations and PvP content. Granted they're always there for solo play, but then again, so is your character.

 

Likewise, maturity doesn't factor into this discussion in the slightest as more-mature players would have a discussion about this kind of thing before it even becomes an issue. A simple "Do you mind if I roll for my companion?" works wonders.

[Lani]

The whole Need vs Greed discussion predates SW:TOR by about ten years and it's never been solved completely.

In most MMO's it's an unwritten rule of player etiquette to only 'Need' for your own acharacter and only roll 'Greed' when the item would go to an Alt. This point of view is pretty straight forward. The only counter is "but my Alt "needs" it. Which is iffy. Does the player actually have an alt that can use it, or is he just greedy and wanting to sell it? Since you can't spend hours discussing and investigating a loot roll, the Need only for your current toon rule of thumb is commonly used.

 

Ok some people apparently can and will actually argue ad nauseum about it, personally my biggest issue with this kind of loot mechanismk is that it can hang up the flow and completely destroy the synergy in an otherwise good working group) In SW:TOR it is a bit muddier when it comes to Companions.

 

It's not the same as alts, we (can) know that you have a companion that can make use of the item.

So is a Companion a valid Part of your Character? It is. If in stead of Companions we had (armoured) mounts or vehicles we could use in combat and some kit for that dropped, we'd have no problem with rolling need if it matched our ride's needs. Companions are different from that cause you're only using one at a time and there's several choices. So our own views of how useful Companion A-E is for Class X gets into play. But only the Player who's companion it is can really make that call. Ideally the game'd have three levels. Greed, Need-Companion, Need-self. Need-self trumps Greed but Need-Companion rolls have a range that overlaps with both.

Like Greed rolls 1-50, Need-Companion rolls 26-75 and Need-Self rolls 51-100 or some such.

 

Actually the whole roll system is at fault. It has the whole greedy needy people issue built in from the start. BW just piled another layer of moral ambiguity on it. Round Robin might be a better system actually, but then you got the problem with BInd on Pickup gear you can't use for example. "Fair" would be if instead of blue/purple/orange e.t.c. gear FP's only dropped Commendations, but then we'd have to forego the thrill of that brightly coloured loot-beam reaching to the skies. And let's face it, Bioware's not going to remove any gambling based system (which loot rolls are) now that that's their main source of income.

 

I prefer the netiquette way of trying to create a consensus with the group about it before the issue even rises, but if people want to roll Need for their Companions, fair enough. It's still their Need roll vs mine then.

And I don't care enough about people rolling Need when (I feel) they shouldn't to destroy the fun of the Flashpoint arguing about it. Loot that I'll outlevel way too soon (thanks to double XP weekends) is less important to me than having fun.

Edited March 17, 2013 by Lani
paragraph layout :-)

[TrillOG-]

I really hope for your sake you change your ways. Id give you the boot if you were needing on things for your companion without mentioning anything. You don't need on companion rolls, you can ask if noone needs it, and then roll need if its cool with everyone. You will end up time, and time again taking gear someone actually needs for their own character. You taking it for your companion when they need it is ridiculous, and I'm sure if it happened to you then you'd be pissed. I still feel like this is a troll by how ridiculous, and selfish the OP sounds.

[_biddan_]

This was my immediate thought, as well. Bumped to 9/10 for stretching the 'discussion' out to 5 pages.

 

be ready to see this bump to 10/10 for strentching it out to at least 10 pages.

[Ratajack]

I would take the stance that loot produced in a companion-less environment should not take those absentee companions into consideration. Corso wasn't there. Companions aren't as much a part of your character as your own - they are absent in full groups, operations and PvP content. Granted they're always there for solo play, but then again, so is your character.

 

Likewise, maturity doesn't factor into this discussion in the slightest as more-mature players would have a discussion about this kind of thing before it even becomes an issue. A simple "Do you mind if I roll for my companion?" works wonders.

 

The PLAYER was there. The PLAYER helped to produce the loot. The PLAYER has the right to roll on said loot, regardless of how that PLAYER intends to use it. As I said before, trying to separate the PLAYER from the companion is simply an attempt to justify an entitled attitude, in my opinion.

[Ratajack]

There is one major flame to your argument. Companions don't get to roll on items, only the 3 players do. I understand what you're getting at but your argument is vastly flawed.

 

Characters do not get to roll on items, either, only the PLAYERS do.

[Ratajack]

I really hope for your sake you change your ways. Id give you the boot if you were needing on things for your companion without mentioning anything. You don't need on companion rolls, you can ask if noone needs it, and then roll need if its cool with everyone. You will end up time, and time again taking gear someone actually needs for their own character. You taking it for your companion when they need it is ridiculous, and I'm sure if it happened to you then you'd be pissed. I still feel like this is a troll by how ridiculous, and selfish the OP sounds.

 

Let's look at this logically. The OP helped create the items he rolled on. The OP did NOT, in any way, attempt to prevent any other members of the group from rolling on those items. You want to prevent the OP from rolling on items he helped to produce, in order to maximize your chances of winning said items. Which one is selfish? I'll give you a hint. It sure isn't the OP, in my opinion.

[Darkwords]

There are valid arguments for both sides. If you need an item for a companion, ask before you need in case a main wants it and don't be a loot ho...pass the next item that drops to make it fair.

[Pingonaut]

There's a thing called common courtesy. You need some of it, OP. If I needed for an item that would be used on a whole separate character I could need for everything if I wanted. I can't believe you actually think you shouldn't be kicked for needing on items for different characters when the people doing the mission with you would be able to use it. If no one wants the item, fine. If you want items for your other character do the mission on your other character.

 

Now I understand the mindset of them. No wonder.

Edited March 17, 2013 by Pingonaut

[Ratajack]

There's a thing called common courtesy. You need some of it, OP. If I needed for an item that would be used on a whole separate character I could need for everything if I wanted. I can't believe you actually think you shouldn't be kicked for needing on items for different characters when the people doing the mission with you would be able to use it. If no one wants the item, fine. If you want items for your other character do the mission on your other character.

 

Now I understand the mindset of them. No wonder.

 

Does the person sitting next to you control your companion, or do you? This game is not like most MMO's in which a player has only the character they are logged in playing. The companions in this game are an integral part of your character, to the point where you would not be able to survive without them, in most cases. We are not talking about needing an item to send to an alt, but an item that would be used to benefit the character logged in, even by proxy. Is that shiny so important to you that you would ignore the fact that it would not even exist if not for the OP, and deny the OP the right to roll, just so you can guarantee you win it?

[Drudenfusz]

Does the person sitting next to you control your companion, or do you? This game is not like most MMO's in which a player has only the character they are logged in playing. The companions in this game are an integral part of your character, to the point where you would not be able to survive without them, in most cases. We are not talking about needing an item to send to an alt, but an item that would be used to benefit the character logged in, even by proxy. Is that shiny so important to you that you would ignore the fact that it would not even exist if not for the OP, and deny the OP the right to roll, just so you can guarantee you win it?

In group activities that invole no companions the players go always first. Sure, if yoou like toa have something for a companion that a player could not need at the moment, I don't mind then rolling need (but still it would be polite asking at the start of the flashpoint before doing so). If you behave like an egoist, I can understand that people don't want to play with you then. What next, rolling need in operations, because the companion needs it?

[dcgregorya]

Came across two flashpoints yesterday where I was verbally talked down to by a gamer each time for winning loot for my companion. I dont understand the big deal. Why the sense of entitlement over another gamer? If I see an item that would be needed for my companion to equip im going to roll for it. If someone else wins it, cool, good for them as far as im concerned. If i win it f, suddenly there are problems.

 

At the end of the day, its a social game. They're not entitled to gear just as you're not entitled to getting a group with people who don't want you to do that.

 

So keep it up but don't come whining here if people votekick you or won't group with you.

[xAyahuaskax]

Unwritten rule for NEED is invented in MMO community a long time ago, for a particular reason, efficiency of time spent farming a single content. If it didn't existed, you'd have less chance to win in long run. So everyone benefits from this less farming, more satisfied players. Drops from runs will be more evenly distributed to players that actually use them, rather than most of it going to trash.

 

As for companions, even though they are part of your character etc etc. they can't be put on same level as your actual char. As OP mentioned, use of companions is limited only to solo content or in groups with max 2 other players. For everything else you have only yourself. Other than that your efficiency increases much less when you gear up your companion, than when you gear up your char. Imagine if you are DPS and are with your DPS companion. Try making a parse with you wearing Dread Guard gear and your companion in Columi. Now try making a parse with ur companion in Dread Guard and you in Columi. :) Difference is ridiculos. So yeah companions are there to make it easier for you, but in no way can be considered with same importance as ones character.

[Wraiven]

Does the person sitting next to you control your companion, or do you? This game is not like most MMO's in which a player has only the character they are logged in playing. The companions in this game are an integral part of your character, to the point where you would not be able to survive without them, in most cases. We are not talking about needing an item to send to an alt, but an item that would be used to benefit the character logged in, even by proxy. Is that shiny so important to you that you would ignore the fact that it would not even exist if not for the OP, and deny the OP the right to roll, just so you can guarantee you win it?

 

lol, why are you arguing with everyone, man? You came in here asking for people's opinion. You wanted to know if people felt like needing on items for companions was considered wrong. Well, you have your answer. So why are you arguing with everyone over this? Do you think you are honestly going to change anyone's mind?

 

Hey, there is a system in place set by MMO players that has been in place since the beginning of the loot system. Most MMO players abide by this rule. If you chose not to abide by this rule like everyone else does, fine. Be ready to be removed from your teams and in some instances cussed out. Be prepared to be humiliated. This is your choice and this is the ultimate consequence for your choice. You obviously do not plan to change your ways, so this is the MMO life you will be faced with, but be warned...players are quick to place people on ignore these days. You do this to enough people, the word that you are a ninja will quickly spread on your server, and you will be ignored by the whole server. Sounds like a bit much, right? Trust me, I have seen it done to a guy already in Age of Conan. The guy was forced to quit the server because he was unable to get in to a guild, unable to get in to a Raid and unable to progress. This could be you...if this is what you chose, so be it, but you will not convince us that what you are doing is fine and dandy.

 

Good luck.

[dcgregorya]

The PLAYER contributed to the kill. The PLAYER has the right to roll on the loot. Trying to separate the player and the companion is simply an attempt to justify an entitled attitude, in my opinion.

 

You're almost universally disagreed with opinion. When you play with others, you play by consensus rules or you play with yourself.

[Ratajack]

In group activities that invole no companions the players go always first. Sure, if yoou like toa have something for a companion that a player could not need at the moment, I don't mind then rolling need (but still it would be polite asking at the start of the flashpoint before doing so). If you behave like an egoist, I can understand that people don't want to play with you then. What next, rolling need in operations, because the companion needs it?

 

Have you read all my posts? I'm guessing that you haven't. I do not generally roll need unless it is for my character, but I will defend another player's right to roll for any reason. I will vote no if someone attempts to vote kick a member of the group for rolling need, and maybe my one vote will make a difference, maybe not.

[Ratajack]

You're almost universally disagreed with opinion. When you play with others, you play by consensus rules or you play with yourself.

 

Actually, although I usually end up with at least one d-bag in my LFG groups, most of the people I have been grouped with seem to have the same opinion I do. Most will roll need for their character, but do not complain or get butthurt if someone rolls need for a companion. That may be because some players have put me on their ignore lists, but I've never waited longer than 10 minutes for a queue to pop, even as DPS. I can't believe I'm on too many ignore lists with that short a wait time.

 

My guild holds the same principles, as well. I'm never at a loss for people with whom to group.

[dcgregorya]

Actually, although I usually end up with at least one d-bag in my LFG groups, most of the people I have been grouped with seem to have the same opinion I do. Most will roll need for their character, but do not complain or get butthurt if someone rolls need for a companion. That may be because some players have put me on their ignore lists, but I've never waited longer than 10 minutes for a queue to pop, even as DPS. I can't believe I'm on too many ignore lists with that short a wait time.

 

My guild holds the same principles, as well. I'm never at a loss for people with whom to group.

 

I knew you were lying when you said "10 minute queue" and "I'm a DPS" in the same paragraph.

 

Nice troll though.