Erked.

[Master-Nala]

So player feedback was that people are unhappy that you need to pay money for reputation, and now this reads like that system is actually being expanded.

 

What a lot of folks have said is that they don't want the Reputation system co-mingled with the CM. So they will move it and call it something else. Basically Bioware has called the complainer's bluff. The new UI element will probably be called "Cartel Market Rewards" or something and not make reference to Reputation at all. But then the complaints will just morph into something else to avoid saying what the real complaint is.

 

Folks are mad that the game has a cash shop and that they need to spend real money to get things in game. That's all this is about. It's not going to change, the game is F2P now, so people complain about every new element of the CM because they know the real complaint is a dead issue.

[Master-Nala]

Seeing that Reputation = content...people want to access it...

 

It's not content. It's a record of the completion of content. Or in this case the purchase of packs.

[AlienEyeTX]

It's not content. It's a record of the completion of content. Or in this case the purchase of packs.

 

Well put. I don't think I've seen anyone else phrase it like this. That's exactly right, though. Cheers for making that clear!

[chuixupu]

Some people here make some valid points others not so much, but there's one thing that I don't get.

 

What exactly is the problem?

You like to grind? You don't want to pay real money?

 

Then grind dailies for credits and buy the contraband packs on GTN. Problem solved.

you will get rep and probably some goodies inside that you can sell and buy more packs with etc.

Really don't see an issue here. you're not locked out of anything, there's another way to get it all.

 

On the other hand, for those who don't mind paying, they can buy them with real money.

Same goes for anything on the cartel market don't see how this is different.

 

This sounds reasonable in theory, much less so in actual practice.

 

I'll quote this from someone in another thread:

 

It takes 70000 rep to max the reputation. Assuming an average of 400 rep per trophy (greens are 270, blue 630, and purple 1440, so 400 seems a reasonable guess depending on luck), that's 175 packs to max your reputation. That's 7 Hypercrates and 7 Packs, for a price of ~54,000 CC. At the cheapest rate of 5500CC for $40, that comes to $392.73 to max out your reputation.

.

 

That's not even including the certificate requirement, which only have a chance to drop in a pack, not guaranteed.

That's a lot of damn money, even if you're on the lucky side and get a lot of blue and purple tokens. And credits? The packs sell for a million credits each on my server. There is no way I can grind out 100-200 million credits for this, I don't have that kind of play time. Even doing every daily for months and selling items on the GTN isn't going to cut it. If they were stopping here, maybe it wouldn't be so bad. But they're not, the're going to keep releasing more and more of these reputations through different packs.

 

As I suggested before, if they made the rep tokens and certificates sellable/tradeable, then this would be much less daunting. I would even be fine with them doing this later....like they said they're going to retire packs and bring them back later. Have the items from past releases unbind after new ones come out. That way, the pack buyers have the first crack at it, while those of us who just like being completiionists can slowly work our way to it.

Edited March 20, 2013 by chuixupu

[TheNahash]

Seeing that Reputation = content...people want to access it...

 

Not really. Reputation = completing content you've already done (or chosen to completely omit) again and again.

Even the rewards are only vanity items.

And even if you consider it content, I still don't get the rush to get to max level asap.

 

What a lot of folks have said is that they don't want the Reputation system co-mingled with the CM. So they will move it and call it something else. Basically Bioware has called the complainer's bluff. The new UI element will probably be called "Cartel Market Rewards" or something and not make reference to Reputation at all. But then the complaints will just morph into something else to avoid saying what the real complaint is.

 

Folks are mad that the game has a cash shop and that they need to spend real money to get things in game. That's all this is about. It's not going to change, the game is F2P now, so people complain about every new element of the CM because they know the real complaint is a dead issue.

 

My thoughts exactly.

 

First of all, it was a huge mistake on Bioware's part to name this "Reputation". They wanted it to fit in with the rest of the content and not be completely separate but they've managed to anger a big part of the community by naming something in a way that makes it seem like something that already exists in game.

 

 

As for the Cartel Market, you're also spot on.

It's been months and people still seem to think the game is what it used to be one year ago or that if they bash the CM hard enough, it will eventually go away.

 

The truth of the matter is that both veterans of the game (like myself) who chose to stay when the move to F2P and the Cartel Market were announced and new players should just accept the fact that F2P and the CM are here to stay and play a big part in keeping the game alive.

 

Like, seriously, what did people expect?

A market full of unappealing items that no one would ever be enticed to pay real money for? Because if they did, they should never, ever choose a career in marketing or sales.

[TheNahash]

As I suggested before, if they made the rep tokens and certificates sellable/tradeable, then this would be much less daunting. I would even be fine with them doing this later....like they said they're going to retire packs and bring them back later. Have the items from past releases unbind after new ones come out. That way, the pack buyers have the first crack at it, while those of us who just like being completiionists can slowly work our way to it.

 

It still wouldn't be fine for the people that complain about the Cartel Packs for Cartel Rep, because the exact same reasons that are now being given to explain their frustration could be used even if what you're saying happened.

 

Someone would still have to buy the packs to get the certificates

Someone would still have to sell the certificates.

The certificates would always be expensive and their price would always be similar or sometimes higher than the packs themselves, since the buyer would be making a "guaranteed" purchase ( "I need 10 certificates, I'll buy ten certificates, not Packs")

People would still need to grind for credits to be able to afford them

There still wouldn't be any way to get them through gameplay.

[chuixupu]

It still wouldn't be fine for the people that complain about the Cartel Packs for Cartel Rep, because the exact same reasons that are now being given to explain their frustration could be used even if what you're saying happened.

 

I would prefer these things don't exist at all, but I'm seeking a compromise with the idea that they're probably not going to just go away. I can't speak for other people, only myself.

 

Someone would still have to buy the packs to get the certificates

Someone would still have to sell the certificates.

The certificates would always be expensive and their price would always be similar or sometimes higher than the packs themselves, since the buyer would be making a "guaranteed" purchase ( "I need 10 certificates, I'll buy ten certificates, not Packs")

People would still need to grind for credits to be able to afford them

There still wouldn't be any way to get them through gameplay.

 

All true, but having items be guaranteed and individualized makes it far easier to pin down. Eventually, those items will start to go down in price as more people reach the required reputation. True of packs in general as well, but the items being unbound would give buyers and sellers a whole lot more freedom in how they handle them. I buy a pack off the GTN, I don't know whether it will contain a green, blue, or purple token, or whether it will have a certificate. I will pay for what I know I'm getting....not so much for an unknown quality.

 

Another alternative would be to allow a way to earn these in game as well.... actually, the idea of subscribers earning extra Cartel Coins in game was brought up by developers before (it can be done in other games with similar currency). There could be something to that.

Edited March 20, 2013 by chuixupu

[TheNahash]

All true, but having items be guaranteed and individualized makes it far easier to pin down. Eventually, those items will start to go down in price as more people reach the required reputation. True of packs in general as well, but the items being unbound would give buyers and sellers a whole lot more freedom in how they handle them.

 

I buy a pack off the GTN, I don't know whether it will contain a green, blue, or purple token, or whether it will have a certificate. I will pay for what I know I'm getting....not so much for an unknown quality.

 

Exactly. When 2.0 is released with the new gear coming up and the Cartel Market updates the items you can get from the Cartel Rep vendors will seize to be all that interesting. Just like a Throne mount used to cost close to 10mil and now it costs close to 1.5-2mil (at least on my server).

 

Don't get me wrong, I do think that's a good idea and I hope they will eventually unbind them, but I'm saying that this would still not solve people's core issue with Cartel Packs: they are not something you can get by simply playing the game without the Cartel Market being involved at some point.

 

Another alternative would be to allow a way to earn these in game as well.... actually, the idea of subscribers earning extra Cartel Coins in game was brought up by developers before (it can be done in other games with similar currency). There could be something to that.

 

I think completing some achievements will reward cartel coins but I'm pretty sure there's a limit to how many of those you can earn and they're definitely not an alternative to buying them.

[Choffware]

Ok... Let me get this straight. People are complaining that they have to spend real money for rep in the game? HELLO... There are several types of rep that provide rewards that are 100% game play related. Cartel rep is the only type and it mostly requires real cash and that's a loose requirement since you can also spend in game credits for them. It's specifically aimed at one type of their customers NOT all. That's their choice. And it's done all the time. You are not forced in anyway to purchase these items. The items are not required for playing any part of the end game. AND there are several other rep/reward systems in the game if you don't want to spend cash. I don't think its fair to demand that all rep systems conform to every customer's play style. If you don't want to spend real cash on this rep, then grind for credits... think of it as GTN reputation. If you are paying a subscription then you are ALREADY getting free cartel points to buy these packs... If you are a free to play player than pay for the rep if you really want it.

 

They added a rep and reward system for people buying a lot of packs. They are not forcing you to do anything... You are not entitled to every item in the game by means you define. Don't like the requirements... don't get the item.

Edited March 20, 2013 by Choffware

[mothear]

I would prefer these things don't exist at all, but I'm seeking a compromise with the idea that they're probably not going to just go away. I can't speak for other people, only myself.

.......... snip ...............

 

 

I have nothing against rewarding people who buy cartel packs. I have no problem with cartel packs randomly dropping certificates that can be used at the vendor, after all they only sell stuff that is available in the CM, so no loss there if you don't want to participate.

 

My only gripe is that it is linked to a reputation and as has been shown many times purchasing with credits will probably not be possible to even the reasonably dedicted player who does not play the GTN. Once the new cartel shipment comes in the old ones will not be buyable, assuming EA follows its current format so people have 4 months to buy there way to legendary rep with credits and the 5-600 cartel coinsthey receive a month, not possible for an average Joe in my opinion.

 

Remove the rep porption and everything is fine I believe.

[mothear]

Ok... Let me get this straight. People are complaining that they have to spend real money for rep in the game? HELLO... There are several types of rep that provide rewards that are 100% game play related. Cartel rep is the only type and it mostly requires real cash and that's a loose requirement since you can also spend in game credits for them. It's specifically aimed at one type of their customers NOT all. That's their choice. And it's done all the time. You are not forced in anyway to purchase these items. The items are not required for playing any part of the end game. AND there are several other rep/reward systems in the game if you don't want to spend cash. I don't think its fair to demand that all rep systems conform to every customer's play style. If you don't want to spend real cash on this rep, then grind for credits... think of it as GTN reputation. If you are paying a subscription then you are ALREADY getting free cartel points to buy these packs... If you are a free to play player than pay for the rep if you really want it.

 

They added a rep and reward system for people buying a lot of packs. They are not forcing you to do anything... You are not entitled to every item in the game by means you define. Don't like the requirements... don't get the item.

 

Name one other MMO where gaining a rep is not 100% game related please?

[chuixupu]

I think completing some achievements will reward cartel coins but I'm pretty sure there's a limit to how many of those you can earn and they're definitely not an alternative to buying them.

 

Just curious, is there a source for this, or just speculation? I haven't heard any confirmation of earning CC's in game so far.

 

Even small amounts would be cool....there have been a lot of times where I am just 10 CC's short of buying something and I really don't want to buy a whole other block of a few hundred just to get it.

 

IOnce the new cartel shipment comes in the old ones will not be buyable, assuming EA follows its current format so people have 4 months to buy there way to legendary rep with credits and the 5-600 cartel coinsthey receive a month, not possible for an average Joe in my opinion.

 

I'd have to go find the quote again, but I'm pretty sure in the blog it says they plan on bringing old packs back out of "retirement" periodically.

Edited March 20, 2013 by chuixupu

[DarthTHC]

Name one other MMO where gaining a rep is not 100% game related please?

 

Name one other MMO that has story like this one in which over 98% of all quests are given and completed via fully voiced cut scenes.

 

It doesn't matter what other MMOs have.

 

Why do you care that a reputation designed to reward people for buying stuff is obtained by buying stuff? It's not like they put Gree or Voss or whatever other reps there are on the RMT shop.

 

It's like your grocery store reward card. If you don't shop there, you're not getting the rewards.

Edited March 20, 2013 by DarthTHC

[Infernixx]

Name one other MMO where gaining a rep is not 100% game related please?

 

So, getting access to exclusive items via rep is bad, because it's based on money...

 

But getting access to exclusive items via Collector's Edition purchases is okay, even though it's based on money.

[TheNahash]

Just curious, is there a source for this, or just speculation? I haven't heard any confirmation of earning CC's in game so far.

 

Even small amounts would be cool....there have been a lot of times where I am just 10 CC's short of buying something and I really don't want to buy a whole other block of a few hundred just to get it.

 

Dulfy has an achievement guide that also lists the cartel coins you can get from completing some of them.

[mothear]

So, getting access to exclusive items via rep is bad, because it's based on money...

 

But getting access to exclusive items via Collector's Edition purchases is okay, even though it's based on money.

 

Yes, standard MMO practice. Did you read where I said get the items without a rep, since when does the CE edition give any rep? Apples/oranges mate.

[Infernixx]

Yes, standard MMO practice. Did you read where I said get the items without a rep, since when does the CE edition give any rep? Apples/oranges mate.

 

Yup, with the CE, you spend your money, and you get immediate and instant access.

 

With the Rep, you have to spend your money and eventually get access.

 

Totally different creatures, mate. Like Day and Night, right there. lol

[chuixupu]

Dulfy has an achievement guide that also lists the cartel coins you can get from completing some of them.

 

Thanks, I hadn't seen this list. CC's for achievements, I like it.

[XuShaBi]

Except these methods are against the TOS of most mmos and also due the randomness of loot it is not as efficient in said mmos. You can pretty much buy gear with money in this game and suffer no consequences by doing so, no ban or suspension. You can even write a ticket to CS saying that you just bought your gear with rl money and thank them for the pay2win system , they wont be able to do anything about it.

 

Practically, most of those who offer raid service etc. don't face ban etc. And such service is highly efficient in this MMO since gear drops, from campaign onward, is not class specific. Even in other MMO, such group finds efficient ways to get what their customers want. Furthermore, such services are rarely unambiguously against TOS.

 

The second part of the paragraph is just more whine and has no substance.

 

If you don't wanna call a system where someone can just spend real money to get the best raiding gear via the gtn, without even needing to reach lvl 50, or doing any other sort of activity related to the game pay2win, fine. But it doesn't change the fact that you can get ahead of people just by throwing more IRL money at THE COMPANY that released the game, not other players . If you are fine with that and doesn't see how that can harm the game, have fun playing p2win , but by any means don't use that label cause it doesn't fit the "common sense" definition that you just made up.

 

The fact is we ALL have to pay to get BEST raiding gear, even without CM coins. That is what your subscription fee does.

 

In summary, you are just upset about a phenomena which inherently exist in any MMO but trying very hard to spin such to be not the norm but the exceptions with SWTOR being one of them.

[mothear]

Yup, with the CE, you spend your money, and you get immediate and instant access.

 

With the Rep, you have to spend your money and eventually get access.

 

Totally different creatures, mate. Like Day and Night, right there. lol

 

What I said was

 

I have nothing against rewarding people who buy cartel packs. I have no problem with cartel packs randomly dropping certificates that can be used at the vendor, after all they only sell stuff that is available in the CM, so no loss there if you don't want to participate.

 

So yes totally different creatures

[XuShaBi]

The crafting is crap and the cartel martket does nothing to help it and EA/BW refuses to do anything to make it better as well?

 

I make at least 500k, per week, in each crafting professions except artifice. I hardly say it's crap from the perspective of revenue generating for my characters. I have friends who make more. Those who complain that they are making less tend to be either in a low populated server or just don't want to spend time to find what the market wants. In the latter case, it's just a problem of laziness...

 

They are implementing new rep. for every cartel pack? They are implementing cartel martket achievements in 2.0?

 

It's still the same complaint as in this thread, nothing fresh.

Edited March 20, 2013 by XuShaBi

[SHadowsan]

The fact is we ALL have to pay to get BEST raiding gear, even without CM coins. That is what your subscription fee does..

 

You are kidding right. You are missing one vitally important step.

 

Pay for subscription. You play the game for weeks to max level. Then weeks to Raid. Then you get best gear. = PLAY2WIN

 

Not buy CM packs, sell packs, get best gear = PAY2WIN.

[Jagrevi]

Ok... Let me get this straight. People are complaining that they have to spend real money for rep in the game? HELLO... There are several types of rep that provide rewards that are 100% game play related. Cartel rep is the only type and it mostly requires real cash and that's a loose requirement since you can also spend in game credits for them. It's specifically aimed at one type of their customers NOT all. That's their choice. And it's done all the time. You are not forced in anyway to purchase these items. The items are not required for playing any part of the end game. AND there are several other rep/reward systems in the game if you don't want to spend cash. I don't think its fair to demand that all rep systems conform to every customer's play style. If you don't want to spend real cash on this rep, then grind for credits... think of it as GTN reputation. If you are paying a subscription then you are ALREADY getting free cartel points to buy these packs... If you are a free to play player than pay for the rep if you really want it.

 

They added a rep and reward system for people buying a lot of packs. They are not forcing you to do anything... You are not entitled to every item in the game by means you define. Don't like the requirements... don't get the item.

 

They're even moving it out of the reputation tab just to appease these people.

 

It's like there's this mmo-player-hivemind that complains about things not because they make any sense as a complaint, but simply to try to sway loosely correlated future decisions.

[Choffware]

Yes, standard MMO practice. Did you read where I said get the items without a rep, since when does the CE edition give any rep? Apples/oranges mate.

 

There is no such thing as "standard MMO practice". Sure video game developers copy working ideas all the time... but there is no governing body regulating MMO development. The fact that there is a rep bar on your UI somewhere does not entitle you to fill it the way you want to fill it... in fact you have no "rights" to anything the game provides. It's the money rep for people spending money... you don't want to spend the money don't get the rep. There are plenty of other little bars for you to fill. Is skipping one OPTIONAL rep bar really going to destroy your fun? Really?

[xorcist]

I like to grind reputation. In any MMO, it's just something I enjoyed. Getting all the reputation items + titles etc, etc. So now they put in a new reputation grind which made me excited while I was reading the patch notes... until it said you have to buy cartel packs to gain rep. with that faction. I haven't been on to specifically see if there is any other way, and if there isn't that's pretty depressing.

 

It's not game breaking. But I will forever feel incomplete since one of the reputation bars will never be at that "Legendary" status I so enjoy to attain since I refuse to pay real money for something that was designed as a time sink.

 

sadpanda

 

It leaves a bad taste in your mouth, and is very expensive grind either way. It is a B.S. system of pure unadulterated GREED!