Scripts in PVP

[lordkhouri]

I have never called out any individual or guild ever. What I have said is that the fact that it is usable and undetectable, even by your own team mates, puts a taint on rated warzones all together. With out getting into to much detail, how handy would it be to have an auto knockback when lept to. Never ever use an ability without the proper buffs. To your last scenario a target of target script would take maybe 2 mins to write. Every time your focus target hard swapped you would immidiatly switch with them. The possibilities are endless. Your assertion that no one on your server uses them is absurd, as the person right next to you in the ops frame could use them and you would never know.

 

Ahahah, that's ridiculous. I would definitely know. As soon as I call something in Teamspeak, and it isn't done, I would ask. Good rated teams (which is really what matters at the competitive level) are good at transitioning and making adjustments on the fly. A bot like this would become obvious relatively quickly.

[Crawelc]

So,

 

how exactly would this program know when and who to swap guard to???

how would it know who and when to taunt someone??

how would it know how to coordinate burst with a teammate?

how would it know which enemy to apply a heal or accuracy debuff on, and when to do it to maximize efficiency?

how would it know that it needs to cc to ensure your team caps a node and not to break certain cc's or fill resolve?

 

does it know how to carry or pass the huttball?

does it know how to time a fire pull? or a stun/root over the fire?

does it know to pop a bubble from range before dps-ing from close?

does it know how to fake cast to bait an interrupt? or even which abilities are important to interrupt?

 

If it can't do these all of these things, then I'm really not too worried about it, since i can do all these things even if i'm 0.1 seconds after the global cooldown.

 

To be successful on a rated warzone team, you need humans using abilities timely and intelligently. There are too many intangibles that are not accounted for with any kind of bot.

 

It is not a bot it is a script that can have that many variables written into it and then some

[Crawelc]

Ahahah, that's ridiculous. I would definitely know. As soon as I call something in Teamspeak, and it isn't done, I would ask. Good rated teams (which is really what matters at the competitive level) are good at transitioning and making adjustments on the fly. A bot like this would become obvious relatively quickly.

 

your confusing a script with a bot and its understandable seeing as script is not in the title... oh wait

[JenseitsvonBose]

This part is actually true. Bots in diablo 2 & 3 work off of pixel reading. That's how the autoit prog works too. I just dint think it is plausible for such a program to work effectively in swtor.

 

Pixel reading is easy. Parsing images and developing sophisticated algorithms that'll determine responses is CPU intensive, to put it mildly, and, again, is a task more suited to actual programming than scripting. Last time I checked, bots in SWTOR couldn't manage to make it through a warzone without running into a wall at the start and staying that way the entire time. If someone wants to believe otherwise, just because someone says so, fine, but I'll restrain my credulity until I see some actual evidence.

[Razgriz_tree]

Not xerain's either, not going to say who it was what guild they were in of if they are your bff jill

 

Oh wow even better. So its just COMPLETELY made up then. Do you even know how to present a valid argument? It uses example and facts, not hearsay and made up stories with imaginary (and arbitrary) numbers to prove an example of ub3r 1337 h4x0rz'ing.

[DrewFromPhilly]

If you need something like that to do well in this games pvp....you've been seriously maimed and only have one arm or something.

[Rannox]

This part is actually true. Bots in diablo 2 & 3 work off of pixel reading. That's how the autoit prog works too. I just dint think it is plausible for such a program to work effectively in swtor.

 

Its not about this specific program, its about cheating in general, and yes they are people cheating and bioware need to address this issue as soon as possible.

 

Those "top pvp players/guilds" - cheaters. Saw one of them with 100% critical chance in a warzone for about 3-4 minutes, then suddenly - 39% and i think its irrevelant to tell that he had done 2x more dps than us.

 

Believe it or not, i dont care, but do like i do, if you see a person doing ridiculously amount of damage in comparision to the others EQUALLY geared players - then he is definitely cheating - report him at once.

[Crawelc]

Pixel reading is easy. Parsing images and developing sophisticated algorithms that'll determine responses is CPU intensive, to put it mildly, and, again, is a task more suited to actual programming than scripting. Last time I checked, bots in SWTOR couldn't manage to make it through a warzone without running into a wall at the start and staying that way the entire time. If someone wants to believe otherwise, just because someone says so, fine, but I'll restrain my credulity until I see some actual evidence.

 

Problem is posting actual evidence is a violation of the TOS and will get the thread deleted and probably an infraction/ban for the poster. It is not hard to find as I have said one of the programs has been used since launch and the other 2 I found without trying work better than that one. I do concede your point about it being more programing than scripting, which is why they have support forums for the programs with prewritten programs/scripts being constantly updated. And honestly from what I have learned from talking to the people who have used these the writing is not complicated if you have a basic programing knowledge.

[Pistols-GS]

Oh wow even better. So its just COMPLETELY made up then. Do you even know how to present a valid argument? It uses example and facts, not hearsay and made up stories with imaginary (and arbitrary) numbers to prove an example of ub3r 1337 h4x0rz'ing.

 

Yes, he made it up, just to troll you. Lol

 

He simply relayed what was told to him by someone else, discounting the information is one thing, putting it on Imprimis is a reading deficiency. The last thread was removed due to going into complex issues of how it works and naming one of the programs, I highly doubt he's going to call the person out and get this deleted. C'mon mang.

[Crawelc]

Oh wow even better. So its just COMPLETELY made up then. Do you even know how to present a valid argument? It uses example and facts, not hearsay and made up stories with imaginary (and arbitrary) numbers to prove an example of ub3r 1337 h4x0rz'ing.

 

The fact that this has you so worked up makes me wonder. As I have said before I cant provide examples and facts without violating the TOS. They are however there for you to find just like I did when I became interested in the topic.

[lordkhouri]

your confusing a script with a bot and its understandable seeing as script is not in the title... oh wait

 

So this script could even respond to my command in Teamspeak to say, "dot the healer so he can't stealth" or "pull the sniper in 3 seconds when i stun him" or "cc that guy, i'm capping!!!" or even something that wouldn't appear on the screen such as "Slow their group down from transitioning, we're capping east!... Don't kill them! Just sloW!!!"

 

If it can do those things, then i'm gonna get this program and just coordinate a full rated squad myself. that'd be great... I'd get all the MVP votes

[Crawelc]

again you are confusing this with a set it and forget it bot, it does what it is supposed to do which is optimize your characters ability usage/energy management/proc management. you never give up control of your toon so every scenario you just described would be dealt with by the player in conjunction with the script. better than a player without it i might add

[Razgriz_tree]

Yes, he made it up, just to troll you. Lol

 

He simply relayed what was told to him by someone else, discounting the information is one thing, putting it on Imprimis is a reading deficiency. The last thread was removed due to going into complex issues of how it works and naming one of the programs, I highly doubt he's going to call the person out and get this deleted. C'mon mang.

 

OP is owner of the thread and anything they post is subject to scrutiny including posting others posts. And I didn't say HE made it up, but he posted a made up story and then supported it.

[lordkhouri]

again you are confusing this with a set it and forget it bot, it does what it is supposed to do which is optimize your characters ability usage/energy management/proc management. you never give up control of your toon so every scenario you just described would be dealt with by the player in conjunction with the script. better than a player without it i might add

 

right, but my simple point is, if i call for the vanguard on my team to prepare to hard swap to a target to burn him down in 3 seconds, i expect him to have his bursty cooldowns available.

 

only a person could really know when is the most practical time to use a particular cool down. and someone doing only half the work while still sitting at their keyboard seems less likely to be immersed in the situation and therefore will react poorly to it.

[Pistols-GS]

OP is owner of the thread and anything they post is subject to scrutiny including posting others posts. And I didn't say HE made it up, but he posted a made up story and then supported it.

 

How do we know it's made up lol? Script use in PvP is not unique to this game, it's quite common in others.

[robertx]

The fact that this has you so worked up makes me wonder. As I have said before I cant provide examples and facts without violating the TOS. They are however there for you to find just like I did when I became interested in the topic.

 

The whole point Raz is making is that you keep trying to discredit all the Top Teams from PoT5 because "sum awesome 600k shadow" says he used it "SO ERRYONE MUST TOO". Now you have normal WZ heroes proclaiming "YA BRAH DAT WHY ME NO Q RWZ". When the reality is totally different.

[Razgriz_tree]

The fact that this has you so worked up makes me wonder. As I have said before I cant provide examples and facts without violating the TOS. They are however there for you to find just like I did when I became interested in the topic.

 

Your condescending tone is cute but if you didn't expect people to call you out why post in the first place? I have played MMOs for quite some time and I'm very aware of what "hacks" are capable of, thats why I am aware that they mean jack squat for competitive rated play. "Just look at all those bot arena players in WoW that all used a program to achieve high rating!" - said nobody. Sure people probably do cheat in normals and in other relatively non-invasive areas (see: space botting) but the post you quoted was specifically calling out all players on POT5 for cheating and you supported it without any previous knowledge of the people this post accuses.

 

I'm not even worked up just have time to blow, I stream actually along with many other people who could claim to be "high level rated players" so I'm sure none of them are worried either to be accused of hacking (something every bad player in the game does to anyone who beats them constantly).

 

I guess the point is that all you have seen is where you think "scripts" are rampant, they aren't, but people who believe in ghosts jump at shadows a lot so...

Edited March 8, 2013 by Razgriz_tree

[Pistols-GS]

I don't know how prevalent this is in TOR, let alone anyone who indeed uses a script for PvP here, but to say it can't happen (let alone be effective to some degree) might be seen to some as a reach (or vice versa I guess).

 

Fact is, they exist and are used in PvP type settings, and I'm sure the OP was simply asking a Developer (or other CS rep) to comment on what they think about it.

[Crawelc]

right, but my simple point is, if i call for the vanguard on my team to prepare to hard swap to a target to burn him down in 3 seconds, i expect him to have his bursty cooldowns available.

 

only a person could really know when is the most practical time to use a particular cool down. and someone doing only half the work while still sitting at their keyboard seems less likely to be immersed in the situation and therefore will react poorly to it.

 

really, i remember when I was in elementry school asking my science teacher if computers were smarter than people and his response to my 8 year old self was "no because people program computers" . if you can do it in the game it can be programmed to be done better. saving up burst for a hard swap switch to your cd saver script hard swap and switch to the burst script. there is still human interaction going on in this situation. its just an elimination of error issue.

[Pistols-GS]

The whole point Raz is making is that you keep trying to discredit all the Top Teams from PoT5 because "sum awesome 600k shadow" says he used it "SO ERRYONE MUST TOO". Now you have normal WZ heroes proclaiming "YA BRAH DAT WHY ME NO Q RWZ". When the reality is totally different.

 

I do agree with this, as I know several players who don't use anything like this. G15 Macro presses, or other 3rd party macro key function sure. But I wouldn't label any/all Rated teams as using it, or accuse anyone for that matter without proof of course. I'm just glad I keyboard turn, click and tunnel vision...so much easier.

[lordkhouri]

Your condescending tone is cute but if you didn't expect people to call you out why post in the first place? I have played MMOs for quite some time and I'm very aware of what "hacks" are capable of, thats why I am aware that they mean jack squat for competitive rated play. "Just look at all those bot arena players in WoW that all used a program to achieve high rating!" - said nobody. Sure people probably do cheat in normals and in other relatively non-invasive areas (see: space botting) but the post you quoted was specifically calling out all players on POT5 for cheating and you supported it without any previous knowledge of the people this post accuses.

 

I'm not even worked up just have time to blow, I stream actually along with many other people who could claim to be "high level rated players" so I'm sure none of them are worried either to be accused of hacking (something every bad player in the game does to anyone who beats them constantly).

 

I guess the point is that all you have seen is where you think "scripts" are rampant, they aren't, but people who believe in ghosts jump at shadows a lot so...

 

Amen!

[JenseitsvonBose]

Problem is posting actual evidence is a violation of the TOS and will get the thread deleted and probably an infraction/ban for the poster. It is not hard to find as I have said one of the programs has been used since launch and the other 2 I found without trying work better than that one. I do concede your point about it being more programing than scripting, which is why they have support forums for the programs with prewritten programs/scripts being constantly updated. And honestly from what I have learned from talking to the people who have used these the writing is not complicated if you have a basic programing knowledge.

 

Right. And, in other news, the Bush administration was behind 9/11, there's no gold in Fort Knox because it's all been taken back to the future, and fluoride is an evil scheme put together by the Illuminati to render the populace malleable and complacent. Honestly, I've learnt these things from talking to the people involved, and it's easy to understand with a little bit of basic knowledge. It's just that I'm unwilling to provide evidence, due to the potential ramifications.

[Crawelc]

Maybe my op wasnt clear on this regard, the person I quoted in the op was in, known to be in and a major contributor to multiple rwz teams imp and republic side. Say what you will about regular wz heros and whatnot I have thick skin. I am not trying to call out pot5 specificlly as anyone on any server can use the program. and yes as pistols said I was not looking to be "called out" i was pointing out the fact that launching season 1 of rateds or pretending that there is even a rated wz scene or leet teams is rediculous with this available. And hoping for a dev response. Epeen doesnt concern me, a fair playing field does.

[Crawelc]

Right. And, in other news, the Bush administration was behind 9/11, there's no gold in Fort Knox because it's all been taken back to the future, and fluoride is an evil scheme put together by the Illuminati to render the populace malleable and complacent. Honestly, I've learnt these things from talking to the people involved, and it's easy to understand with a little bit of basic knowledge. It's just that I'm unwilling to provide evidence, due to the potential ramifications.

 

I dont understand what you want from me. Would you like me to post up evidence and have the thread locked and deleted in 2 mins? As I said the info is there for anyone to see. And as pistols said previously, this is not something new under the sun.

[sirullrich]

Because of this.

 

haha! pistols awesome!!!