LordRaeth Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 I don't know what others think, but I feel that the min maxing type of style of a characters morality really limits gaming. I'm playing my smuggler neutral at the moment, or basically going with what I want to do, but in the end there's not benefit to playing the game as you like, it still appears that you either have to be max light side or max dark side, will being neutral ever pay? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KariTalRathe Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 (edited) I don't know what others think, but I feel that the min maxing type of style of a characters morality really limits gaming. I'm playing my smuggler neutral at the moment, or basically going with what I want to do, but in the end there's not benefit to playing the game as you like, it still appears that you either have to be max light side or max dark side, will being neutral ever pay? Forgive my ignorance but why do you need to be max LS or DS? If it is a relic thing, there are plenty of relics that have no alignment restriction - better relics too may I add. If it isn't about relics, please explain further as I don't understand your issue. ETA: I play a Smuggler who is middling most of the time too and have never been restricted because of it. Edited February 15, 2013 by KariTalRathe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordRaeth Posted February 15, 2013 Author Share Posted February 15, 2013 (edited) Other items as well like imperial probe droids as well as morality based armour / mounts from the dark side/light side vendors. Overall, It just appears that if you go full out down one side or the other, you get rewards, but if you stay neutral, have a balanced character, nothing really comes of it. Edited February 15, 2013 by LordRaeth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arlon_Nabarlly Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 Forgive my ignorance but why do you need to be max LS or DS? If it is a relic thing, there are plenty of relics that have no alignment restriction - better relics too may I add. If it isn't about relics, please explain further as I don't understand your issue. ETA: I play a Smuggler who is middling most of the time too and have never been restricted because of it. This. There are a few sets that require max alignment one way or the other. Most of the early relics required some alignment, but that hasn't been true for a long time now. Really there's not much of advantage for being max LS or DS. You get two titles and optional DS corruption, plus access to a few sets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tidmass Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 Other items as well like imperial probe droids as well as morality based armour / mounts from the dark side/light side vendors. Overall, It just appears that if you go full out down one side or the other, you get rewards, but if you stay neutral, have a balanced character, nothing really comes of it. erm..... you do understand the idea of lightside/darkside? thats the core of the thing really..... the conflict between the two sides. which side will you choose???? oh the middle... neutral? not much use to then...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsmymillertime Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 All end game gear, including relics, have 0 LS/DS restrictions. There are a few level 3 speeders and some moddable gear that is LS/DS limited, but nothing in the game at level 50 requires you to "pick a side" that would benefit you or gimp you stat wise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordRaeth Posted February 15, 2013 Author Share Posted February 15, 2013 erm..... you do understand the idea of lightside/darkside? thats the core of the thing really..... the conflict between the two sides. which side will you choose???? oh the middle... neutral? not much use to then...... Because life in star wars isn't a matter of good/light vs bad/dark, there are smugglers like Han Solo who isn't exactly a paragon of light. What's wrong with playing a character that treads the boundaries and leads a normal life? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsheraII Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 erm..... you do understand the idea of lightside/darkside? thats the core of the thing really..... the conflict between the two sides. which side will you choose???? oh the middle... neutral? not much use to then...... I guess you didn't play the prequels to this game, KotOR I & II then? Going gray sided in that game allowed the player to dabble to some degree into both dark and light side things. Your Dark Side abilities wouldn't be as great as those of a true Dark Sider, and your Light Side abilities wouldn't be as great as those of a true Light Sider, but as a gray you were able to make combinations unavailable to either extreme, which in turn had its own benefits. These "gray" or "balanced" advantages do not exist in TOR. Light and Dark side get their respective advantages (gear customization options, Relic and saber options from early game till 49, DS corruption, pets, vehicle AND a Legacy unlock), while grays do not. And yes, this "bias favouring the extremes" is something that Bioware has messed up in a few more games (I'm especially looking at you, ME2!). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimsPicken Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 If it is a relic thing, there are plenty of relics that have no alignment restriction - better relics too may I add. Only at lvl 50. while leveling up a neutral player is at a fairly decent disadvantage in not being able to slot on demand relic slots for the extra endurance and on demand power/crit buffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marb Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 At present it is a role-playing choice first and foremost, with some boots and gloves of questionable value and the lowest of the lowest tier relics. The rest are cosmetic; mounts, some armour pieces, and a pet I think. Also some titles of your into that sort of thing. In conclusion, you loose nothing of significance by choosing a neutral character. I wouldn't be surprised if Bioware decided to overhaul the alignment system at some point, as its current implementation is very shallow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josewales Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 BW has a perfect opportunity in the upcoming expansion to introduce a neutral faction...cartels. Follows lore and at the same time would help the pvp model also. I hope BW has big plans regarding and not just 2 factions working together in pve. Look at the latest Rift expansion....it's a PVE mess concerning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KariTalRathe Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 (edited) Only at lvl 50. while leveling up a neutral player is at a fairly decent disadvantage in not being able to slot on demand relic slots for the extra endurance and on demand power/crit buffs. Nope. You can make yourself a primary stat relic from the matrix shards which is far superior to those with an alignment requirement. As I said, I myself play a smuggler, she was my first character and not a bit disadvantaged for not giving a monkeys too much about LS or DS. Edited February 15, 2013 by KariTalRathe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordRaeth Posted February 15, 2013 Author Share Posted February 15, 2013 I don't particularly care about the stats etc, it's the general philosophy of the game and the rewards, no matter what they are, you receive. Currently, you do receive rewards for maxing either dark or light, but then that restricts a players choice to switch between light side and dark sided options at their whim and opinion, because you have to choose the evil or good option every time. What about if I want to play my character as a normal slightly immoral smuggler, why do I miss out on unique titles, mounts, etc because I played the game normally and went with my own choices instead of setting out to maximize one side of my morality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthTHC Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 Short answer: never. Long answer: N............E.............V...................E.....................R. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsheraII Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 Short answer: never. Long answer: N............E.............V...................E.....................R. Actually, they stopped adding more LS/DS gear and features BECAUSE they are working over the system to give grays some benefits as well. It's been a few months since they made that post though. I'm hoping they finally implement something in Makeb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GalacticKegger Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 Actually, they stopped adding more LS/DS gear and features BECAUSE they are working over the system to give grays some benefits as well. It's been a few months since they made that post though. I'm hoping they finally implement something in Makeb.Me too. My BH's LS/DS history meter looks like a weak seismograph that's normalized to -500 on the dark side. Mako doesn't seem too impressed with the lack of progress either. Would be nice if there were grey rewards for neutrality longevity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craic_fox Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 What about if I want to play my character as a normal slightly immoral smuggler, why do I miss out on unique titles, mounts, etc because I played the game normally and went with my own choices instead of setting out to maximize one side of my morality. I have the same issue with the game. It isn't just the DS/LS points but also companion affection (at least early in the game). I know that it's easy enough to mitigate the minor negative effects by using diplomacy and gifts, been these are rather unsubtle and clunky mechanisms. In both regards, the game seems to nudge you away from selecting what I would consider more natural conversation choices for a smuggler. For example, Corso should really be a more mercenary character to encourage a more neutral style of play. Jedi and Sith are better for exploring the whole good / evil aspect, however you choose to play them. The smuggler should really be there to explore the vast grey area that lies between the vapid do-gooder and the raving psychopath. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProphetScourge Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 This doesn't just go with Smugglers and Bounty Hunters. There is a huge chunk of incredible lore missing with Grey Jedi. Those falling from the "grace" of the Jedi Order or those who are trained by Sith but just don't see eye-to-eye with their ruthlessness and lack of value in a life. Think about how big of a role two Jedi play in the Star Wars universe: Anakin Skywalker and Darth Revan. Also, you have some fan favorites like Quinlan Vos and Kyp Durron who struggled with the Order and pursued something more, well, neutral.. In fact, I have an Imp guild called Fallen Jedi just to sate this personally, but that doesn't do much of anything outside of RP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kolai_Tak Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 This doesn't just go with Smugglers and Bounty Hunters. There is a huge chunk of incredible lore missing with Grey Jedi. Those falling from the "grace" of the Jedi Order or those who are trained by Sith but just don't see eye-to-eye with their ruthlessness and lack of value in a life. Think about how big of a role two Jedi play in the Star Wars universe: Anakin Skywalker and Darth Revan. Also, you have some fan favorites like Quinlan Vos and Kyp Durron who struggled with the Order and pursued something more, well, neutral.. In fact, I have an Imp guild called Fallen Jedi just to sate this personally, but that doesn't do much of anything outside of RP. The two examples of a Gray Jedi I would give according to lore (Both extremely popular, though one is only recognizable to this series) are Qui-gon Jinn and the one and only....... Hermit of the Shadowlands........................ JOLEE BINDOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icebergy Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 There is no min-max incentive to max out LS or DS, so why would there be one for neutrality? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avatarless Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 (edited) This is one that was put in the 'too hard to implement' basket a LONG time ago. My Agent is Neutral, cause that's just how the story played out. Didn't have any relics until I hit 50.. didn't really care though as I didn't seem to need them to level. The whole 'must be LS or DS' thing is one of the worst aspects of the story if you ask me. It tends to persuade you into playing strictly one or the other, which I hated. I played the story the way I felt I would react in those situations and it was WAY more fun. Your character is going to be slightly gimped or feel restricted simply because your playing the way you want and not the way Bioware wants, which didn't really bother me. Edited February 25, 2013 by Avatarless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jorill Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 But being grey in this game isnt even being grey. There arent very many neutral stances you can take. You stay neutral you have to even out your dark/light side choices. That isnt really being grey, it more about balancing out a stat sheet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgelling Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 Because life in star wars isn't a matter of good/light vs bad/dark, there are smugglers like Han Solo who isn't exactly a paragon of light. What's wrong with playing a character that treads the boundaries and leads a normal life? Bah, apathy is death! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianDavion Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 there IS NO GREY SIDE. everyone whom tries to stay neutral useally ends up failing at it. Lando tried to play neutral and ended up being forced to take a side. Han Solo likewise. Reven might like to claim he was some sort of super special grey but at the risk of a spoiler.. The Foundry pretty much implies at the end he's fallen to the dark side. let's face it folks, it's pretty unargueable that GENOCIDE IS EVIL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kayin Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 (edited) Being light and dark side is not only about the things you do, nor about just the attitude either. It is also about the "state of the soul". It goes both ways also. When you make a choice that goes towards darkness the dark side gets more grip of you, and transforms you. The essence of you, who you are as a person. That results you transforming more towards the dark side, and the circle is complete. Even if you manage to get out from this circle, you are stained by the dark side forever. Once you touch it, you will always have the seed of darkness within you. When you are gray you have some abilities (if force sensitive) from both sides, and the "pull" is somewhat equal. You kinda see the both views of things. It is also not about the side you take. You can be gray or even dark, yet fully committed to the republic. This is how I see Han Solo. He has the ability to do bad things with less remorse as for example a jedi would have. He also sees things a lot less black and white. Edited February 25, 2013 by Kayin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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