Sentinel - Crit always over Power?

[agincourt]

I'm always choosing Str/End items for my Sentinel. I believe that is correct.

 

Now I'm getting ready to leave Tatooine and I want to pick up a lightsaber before going to Alderan. The special items vendor only offers a Light II with power, not crit.

 

So far I've focused on crit. What does power do for a Sentinel? Anything?

[Emptus]

Power directly adds damage to every ability you use. In WoW speak it's Attack Power and Spell Power.

 

As a sentinel, since you're doing many attacks per second, each for less damage but for a total of more damage per second, power is likely a better secondary stat choice than +crit. .005%*1.5*<a little bit> isn't as good as <a little bit>+power*<attacks per second>.

 

So I would take the +power and see if you can swap out that crit for power too.

 

Of course we still don't have a combat log so this is total freaking speculation.

[derkokes]

Power directly adds damage to every ability you use. In WoW speak it's Attack Power and Spell Power.

 

As a sentinel, since you're doing many attacks per second, each for less damage but for a total of more damage per second, power is likely a better secondary stat choice than +crit. .005%*1.5*<a little bit> isn't as good as <a little bit>+power*<attacks per second>.

 

So I would take the +power and see if you can swap out that crit for power too.

 

Of course we still don't have a combat log so this is total freaking speculation.

 

we still do not know the coes everything gets, if 1 power = 1 damage to everythng then its the best

[hoantran]

i like to specc crit as much as i can.... but i have no parser for this game and am running off my rogue habits.^^

[Derian]

Roll watchman. (You should always be a watchman as a Sentinel, anyone telling you otherwise does not know the class). For watchman you want crit/surge.

[Naroga]

Roll watchman. (You should always be a watchman as a Sentinel, anyone telling you otherwise does not know the class). For watchman you want crit/surge.

 

Or, just maybe, a Combat or Focus Sentinel just wants to play a different way, even if it isn't min/maxing to the extreme.

[Derian]

Or, just maybe, a Combat or Focus Sentinel just wants to play a different way, even if it isn't min/maxing to the extreme.

 

To each their own. A Combat spec will generally want Power/Surge. Automatic crits of Force Scream/Blade Storm make the need to crit less of an issue. I don't have much experience with Focus, it's boring.

 

I'm not a min maxer, but Combat needs some buffing. I am all about playing the way you want to, but the jump in performance is too great. I played Combat spec to max level and half way through another max level char in Beta. When I went to Watchmen I immediately started doing 40k more DPS in WZs on average. It's just not worth using.

Edited December 20, 2011 by Derian

[BarkForSoul]

Roll watchman. (You should always be a watchman as a Sentinel, anyone telling you otherwise does not know the class). For watchman you want crit/surge.

 

From what I have seen in the skill trees, watchman seems to be the way to go. I do like the first row of talents in combat though, especially the one where it gives the off hand saber an atk bonus. Aside from that I am going to be rollin' Watchman-status.

[Derian]

From what I have seen in the skill trees, watchman seems to be the way to go. I do like the first row of talents in combat though, especially the one where it gives the off hand saber an atk bonus. Aside from that I am going to be rollin' Watchman-status.

 

Combat is a really fun spec, but Watchman is just devastating.

[Tyrene]

so what kind of spec did u run derian

[ChipHazard]

we still do not know the coes everything gets, if 1 power = 1 damage to everythng then its the best

 

We do actually. People have made formulas to calculate all the stat bonuses.

http://sithwarrior.com/forums/Thread-SWTOR-formula-list

[Hizoka]

there is no "best" stat you must balance all of them, too much crit and your non crits got nothing behind them, too much power and you never crit.

 

 

you need to balance power, crit, and accuracy along with surge.

 

this i not wow where you stack just one thing.

[DevouringPlague]

there is no "best" stat you must balance all of them, too much crit and your non crits got nothing behind them, too much power and you never crit.

 

 

you need to balance power, crit, and accuracy along with surge.

 

this i not wow where you stack just one thing.

 

Except...

 

No.

 

There's something called a soft cap in diminishing returns systems. Once you get to a certain level of crit, it's better to improve your overall damage instead of your crits.

 

Really, Hizoka, you'd think you've never played an MMO except WoW before and only have that to compare to.

[perato]

leveled to 34 in combat so far, finding the class super challenging and feel like sometimes there isn't much difference in outcomes between getting it all right and fumbling around somewhat.

 

after reading this i am going to re-spec to watchman and see how it goes. i am used to finishing in the top 50% in WZs but never in top 25%, even when i feel like i did everything well. my gear isn't bad, not great either, but sometimes even when i am behind an opponent and using all the right skills at the right time it takes forever to burn them down. maybe this will change as a watchmen, i will post my opinions later.

 

also i feel like we have way too many skills that do almost the same thing. i am dreading going to the class trainer these days for fear there will be a new skill i won't have room for on my keybinds. it seemed a lot easier back in the teens when there were a few staple skills and one could focus more on moving around the enemy. now i feel like i spend more time choosing the right skill or finding the right key and by the time i do the enemy is out of range.

[AmonSWTOR]

Except...

 

No.

 

There's something called a soft cap in diminishing returns systems. Once you get to a certain level of crit, it's better to improve your overall damage instead of your crits.

 

Really, Hizoka, you'd think you've never played an MMO except WoW before and only have that to compare to.

 

Guess he didnt play wow tho, since wow has exactly that system lol

What kind of stats will hold what kind of value will be determined once we have some kind of spreadsheet and a combatlog/DPS meter to prove the sheet.

[crangorw]

Roll watchman. (You should always be a watchman as a Sentinel, anyone telling you otherwise does not know the class). For watchman you want crit/surge.

 

im not saying your wrong but what is the crit/ surge based on. Crit menaing you crit more and surge been critical damage would seem to suit a spec that has less atatcks that are generally stronger. Watchman is all about keeping burns up all the time to maintain max dps from a pve standpoint any way or i am wrong and just clueless?

 

based on what i thought that could well be wrong aclarity would appear a great stat for watchman as it reduces gcd meaining we can get more atacks in this would have to be balanced with focus generation ofc and a helthy amount of power to increase damage of all attacks. This is just an asumption based on how the class does damage

 

on another post you mentioned war zone damage but thats not exactly a good way to check your dps surge/crit would suit pvp more i admit as it supports higher burst.

 

while leveling i dont really worry to much about stats your is constantly changing once you hit 50 is prob worthwhile looking in to what stats are better.

 

if i am worng i would appreciate some kind of explanation

[MBirkhofer]

In order to figure out the best stats, you need to factor in exactly how much they are weighted in the itemization table vs each other.

 

surge is clearly the "best" stat for all 3 trees. Its naturally scaling with str, crit, and power.

 

Of which, you get easily on gear.

 

crit does not scale with crit. Str, other crit, crit from talents, smuggler buff.

This devalues crit as a stat, as it comes so freely without having to itemize t. Crit with moves like 100% crit sweep/bladestorm/burns is pointless.

 

Str is power and crit. also does scale with +damage buffs, consular 5% stats. It even scales with itself. Since its both sides of the crit/power equation. Meaning. 1 str=1 dps, 10 str=12dps. (using made up numbers to illustrate the point) The more str you have, the more powerful each point of str is.

 

Surge scales with crit, power, skills. It does not really scale with surge... however, it does stack increasing burst.

 

Power power scales with surge and crit, and slightly str. Unless power is really really cheap, its the worst.

 

Accuracy.. need a combat log for this one really. get your 5% for 100% mainhand, and then worry about other stats?

 

So, then as noted, we need to consider how much we are "paying" for each point.

An augment has how much of each stat? 10power=10surge=10crit=15str?

That will be the real test. I don't have time to look it up atm.

 

But for sake of saying it. str is by far #1. Then surge for augments. crit after that.

[KaiLunn]

im not saying your wrong but what is the crit/ surge based on.

 

Watchman damage is based on dots. A lot of the effects of those dots get better on crits. So crit is important. If you're going after crit, you might as well make crit worthwhile with surge.

 

Accuracy is not as important, because most of the Watchman attacks are either main hand, or Force attacks. IIRC, on an even level mob that's 95% accuracy anyway.

 

 

based on what i thought that could well be wrong aclarity would appear a great stat for watchman as it reduces gcd meaining

 

Alacrity does NOT reduce the GCD. (That's a WoW-ism.) Reducing the GCD is only available to specific talents. It does two things: Reduces channeled and cast times. It might affect frequency of dot/hot ticks, but I am not sure of that.

 

 

-Kai-Lunn

[Ifrik]

Roll watchman. (You should always be a watchman as a Sentinel, anyone telling you otherwise does not know the class). For watchman you want crit/surge.

 

 

I'm not a min maxer, but Combat needs some buffing. I am all about playing the way you want to, but the jump in performance is too great.

 

Lol, I'll try Watchman tonight I'm only level 23 though.

[Deviantsoul]

Crit is meh tbh. Power is additive directly to damage output and only 1 talent in the Watchmen tree is based off crit. The dot crits healing. If you generally arent pressed for needing heals power will add direct damage to all of your attacks and dot ticks.

 

As for accuracy not being needed that is completely not true. Every burn effect in a Watchmen arsenal is based off hitting something from a melee attack. If your melee attack does not land you dont get the dot. And stacks from overload saber only stack from physical hits.

[Ravzar]

Power directly adds damage to every ability you use. In WoW speak it's Attack Power and Spell Power.

 

As a sentinel, since you're doing many attacks per second, each for less damage but for a total of more damage per second, power is likely a better secondary stat choice than +crit. .005%*1.5*<a little bit> isn't as good as <a little bit>+power*<attacks per second>.

.

 

You would have to see the effect on dots too. For pvp crit is superior in general but obviously you wouldn't mind some power too.

[Sethronu]

I'm not sure if Combat is as bad as people make it out to be tbh. I've not tried respeccing yet because I want to see how Precision Strike does first, but generally I don't feel weak at all in BGs (levelling is an entirely different matter ). I do have pretty good gear always - epic hilts of corresponding level on my sabers, instance / pvp stuff in other slots, trinkets & implants filled etc, but still, I'm usually in top 3 damage overall in BGs, and I feel like I can kill pretty much anything in 1v1.

 

If other specs are indeed so much better than Combat, Sentinel is pretty damn overpowered . I mean, yeah it's susceptible to CC, and can't just sit back and nuke stuff like the blaster classes do, but I don't really see why would anyone say it's bad, at least in the 10-30 level range.

[thepilk]

I perfer Combat over Watchman, and compete just fine along side them.

 

To the original question though,

 

Crit/Surge building will give your damage a spikier lean, though your sustained damage will be normal.

 

Power/Surge building will give you a higher "baseline" damage rate and give you a good consistant increase.

 

So, building on one or the other depends on how you want to "flavor" your damage.

 

Both Combat and Watchman have reasons to support crit though,

 

Watchman heals and regains focus from crit burns, and increases crit burn damage.

 

Combat gets a 30% critical damage increase to Blade Storm, Blade Rush, and Ataru procs.

Edited December 21, 2011 by thepilk

[Berezo]

We won't know this till someone hits 50 and gathers enough crit to see if there is a soft cap implemented and at what point that cap hits _-_. Also will need a combat log to define just how power scales at end game levels to see if its worth just stacking that. Will also have to test that into rotations built with the 100% zen because in that case if you are building centering fast enough it could be more economical to just build straight power and use zen. However, most guilds will want you using the 15% increase to dmage + healing for the whole raid centering talent. It will probably result in a soft cap diminsihing return crit system at which once you reach that point, you will stack power. Quite simple, need time and combat logs to figure this stuff out. k thanks.

[FobManX]

I think Power would be better for Watchman. We already have pretty high crit rate on our dots anyway, especially when we pop Zen for 100%. I'm assuming Power increases the damage of our dots. Power/Surge sounds like it'd be the best combo for harder hitting dots and dot crits.