Was dual spec never added?

[ImperialSun]

how anybody in this thread thinks dual specs and free respecs/respec summon is the same is beyond me.

 

dual spec is to save you time. when you use it bang its done and you dont have to do diddly.

 

respec summon takes time to then go down your trees spending the points again then having to move abilities around.

 

this is why the op is probably wondering and is also what ive been asking for since day 1

 

I dont think there should be any confusion as to what constitutes dual spec. We should all know what it means, what i would assert however is that dual spec not being present in this game does equal something that needs 'fixing'. Dual spec is not a cornerstone feature of any and all successful MMORPGs despite what the WoW players may say.

 

Besides, how many times a week do you respec? How long does it take, maybe 60 seconds to re tick the required skill boxes and drag some gear around...how much time do you think dual spec is actually going to save you? Not very much by the sound of it

 

The fact we are a year in and the game has not collapsed without dual spec says a lot for how fundamental this feature really is imo.

 

Driz

[snakebam]

Fixed the situation?

 

There is no bug, nothing is broken and nothing is in need of fixing.

 

This game simply does not have a dual spec feature and you want it to. That does not equal anything in need of fixing. I love how a game always needs "fixing" when it does not offer a feature that an individual wants.

 

Driz

 

You are right, they can't fix something that isn't there. However dual spec is not a feature that "an individual" wants. Is it fundamental? No. Is it a useful feature that would make lots of players happy? Yes. So why would anyone be against it?

[Master-Nala]

You are right, they can't fix something that isn't there. However dual spec is not a feature that "an individual" wants. Is it fundamental? No. Is it a useful feature that would make lots of players happy? Yes. So why would anyone be against it?

 

I don't think anyone is against dual spec. Folks are against whining and denouncing the game because the feature isn't here yet, especially where there is an arguably equivalent (and in some cases better) option. Field respec has no cooldown and no recurring cost. Most games I've played with dual spec have one or both. So if I have to spend 20-30 seconds moving around some skills, that's a decent tradeoff for me. Sure I would love it if we could save a spec. But really, I can switch between healing and DPS specs on my Sage in under a minute....from anywhere.

 

For my own edification, last time I was in WoW, you had to go to a guy in town and wasn't there a cooldown on the feature?

Edited January 31, 2013 by Master-Nala

[ImperialSun]

I don't think anyone is against dual spec. Folks are against whining and denouncing the game because the feature isn't here yet, especially where there is an arguably equivalent (and in some cases better) option. Field respec has no cooldown and no recurring cost. Most games I've played with dual spec have one or both. So if I have to spend 20-30 seconds moving around some skills, that's a decent tradeoff for me. Sure I would love it if we could save a spec. But really, I can switch between healing and DPS specs on my Sage in under a minute....from anywhere.

 

For my own edification, last time I was in WoW, you had to go to a guy in town and wasn't there a cooldown on the feature?

 

"I don't think anyone is against dual spec. Folks are against whining and denouncing the game because the feature isn't here yet"

 

This exactly...

 

Driz

[J__H]

I dont think there should be any confusion as to what constitutes dual spec. We should all know what it means, what i would assert however is that dual spec not being present in this game does equal something that needs 'fixing'. Dual spec is not a cornerstone feature of any and all successful MMORPGs despite what the WoW players may say.

 

Besides, how many times a week do you respec? How long does it take, maybe 60 seconds to re tick the required skill boxes and drag some gear around...how much time do you think dual spec is actually going to save you? Not very much by the sound of it

 

The fact we are a year in and the game has not collapsed without dual spec says a lot for how fundamental this feature really is imo.

 

Driz

 

Dual spec is not WoW only, stop trying to be so 'unique' from WoW it doesn't make you a better person/ gamer. Also it does need fixing, as the game supports switching specs yet does so in an inconvenient and archaic manner. If BW don't want us switching specs then don't allow it at all, don't implement a system which doesn't really deter spec switching just makes it tedious and an annoyance.

[snakebam]

Im out of WoW for over a year but last time I was there you could set up your gear, talents quick bars and save. On a push of a button you switch between two of such builds as long as the gear is in you bag with, some one correct me if im wrong, like a 30sec CD.

 

As for trash talk and whine... Seems like plugging holes on a leaky ship.... the more water rushes through a hole the more attention from the crew it gets.

[Rezakh]

"We've learned to accept mediocrity and broken promises." Whatever dude. It was a legitimate question and it's not unreasonable to think they might have fixed this situation after a year.

 

I was going to reply to him, but this pretty much covers it. Thanks.

[ImperialSun]

Dual spec is not WoW only, stop trying to be so 'unique' from WoW it doesn't make you a better person/ gamer. Also it does need fixing, as the game supports switching specs yet does so in an inconvenient and archaic manner. If BW don't want us switching specs then don't allow it at all, don't implement a system which doesn't really deter spec switching just makes it tedious and an annoyance.

 

Care to point out the section in my post where I said that GF feature is "WoW Only" and "makes you a better person/ gamer"? Didn't think so...

 

It does not need fixing as the feature is working as it was intended.

 

Can you switch specs whenever you want to for free? Yes.

 

Can you switch spec as conveniently as you want? No.

 

Thanks for clarifying...

 

Driz

[Arlon_Nabarlly]

It was never added and isn't needed. Everyone has the option to unlock the ability to respec at any time.

 

I disagree. Dual spec (or even better triple spec) would be a great feature to add. Especially if it auto moves your abilities when you switch specs. When I switch specs currently (daily occurrence) I have to bring up a screenshot, reclick all my tree options, move all my abilities to their correct positions, and change my gear. It only takes a few minutes, but it's a few minutes where sometimes I have people in a flashpoint or ops waiting on me. Also it makes it very easy to forget to move something and end up not having an ability on the right hot-key when you need it. Is it needed, no not really, is it a highly desired quality of life improvement, absolutely.

[J__H]

Care to point out the section in my post where I said that GF feature is "WoW Only" and "makes you a better person/ gamer"? Didn't think so...

 

It does not need fixing as the feature is working as it was intended.

 

Can you switch specs whenever you want to for free? Yes.

 

Can you switch spec as conveniently as you want? No.

 

Thanks for clarifying...

 

Driz

 

It's not a section in your posts, its your condescending tone and attitude that speak louder than words. My point is the feature may be working as intended but its a stupid intention in the first place.

 

If you can switch specs with no real consequence what's the point in putting any barriers at all. it doesn't stop people from switching, it doesn't stop the effect on an MMO that spec switching has. All it does is annoy the player who wishes to switch their specs.

 

It is in no way beneficial to either side of the fence and is a poorly thought out and implemented system.

[Devlonir]

Also it does need fixing, as the game supports switching specs yet does so in an inconvenient and archaic manner.

That is not 'needing of fixing' that is 'in need of a new or expanded feature'. That is the entire point the poster is trying to make and just by basicly saying: "You are wrong and I am right, because I say so!" doesn't change that.

 

Yes, it is a debate of semantics. But Bugs need fixing, new Features need development. But the way you debate your point does not go above the level of schoolyard 'debate'.

 

If BW don't want us switching specs then don't allow it at all, don't implement a system which doesn't really deter spec switching just makes it tedious and an annoyance.

As opposed to the old system that was more tedious and more annoying and used to cost a lot of credits for those who did it regularly. Something was added to make it easier and you complain that it still isn't easy enough, basicly.

 

That is pretty similar to basicly being a 16 year old who wanted a car for their birthday and when their parent gives them a car, complains about the fact that it has the wrong color or doesn't have airco or electric windows. Again, basicly the level of childish debate.

 

If you can switch specs with no real consequence what's the point in putting any barriers at all. it doesn't stop people from switching, it doesn't stop the effect on an MMO that spec switching has. All it does is annoy the player who wishes to switch their specs.

No, all it does is make it easier than it was before through a very quick and simple implementation of using an already existing system of respeccing in a more easy way.

In software development a change like this is considered a 'minimum input, maximum reward' kind of solution. The systems are already in play so need little to no new development and testing, but opening the availability of the system up increases customer experience and decreases time needed to perform a task (no longer need to go to fleet and talk to a specific mob, or make money to keep respeccing)

 

It is in no way beneficial to either side of the fence and is a poorly thought out and implemented system.

1) There is no fence to be on. Everyone would like an easier system honestly. Nobody will complain when all of a sudden they can change between multiple pre-determined setups at the click of a button. So there is no one side vs the other.

2) The system that was implemented is provable to be benificial for anyone who wants to switch specs and is in no way intrusive to those who do not. So, it is a benificial change. It is not as complete as a more feature rich change like being able to create your own setups and switch between them, but it is still benficial compared to the previous situation.

 

Just because something isn't made as easy as you wanted it to be, doesn't mean it's not made easier.

Edited January 31, 2013 by Devlonir

[ImperialSun]

It's not a section in your posts, its your condescending tone and attitude that speak louder than words. My point is the feature may be working as intended but its a stupid intention in the first place.

 

If you can switch specs with no real consequence what's the point in putting any barriers at all. it doesn't stop people from switching, it doesn't stop the effect on an MMO that spec switching has. All it does is annoy the player who wishes to switch their specs.

 

It is in no way beneficial to either side of the fence and is a poorly thought out and implemented system.

 

There are no barriers currently other than the ones in your own head. You can switch back and forth right now, for free. How long does it take to switch specs? How long does it take to re-allocate skill points and drag some abilities/gear around? 60 seconds?

 

The fact is you can do what you want to do in game right now, its just not as slick and convenient as YOU and a few others would like. For mer personally and many, many other players the current system does what it says on the tin. Could it be improved? Sure. Is is broken? No.

 

I personally dont like the idea of the entire game being driven by menus, lobby's and gear switching screens. Makes the game feel more like an FPS iand less like a MMORPG mo.

 

Driz

[kevlarto]

Any thing they promised before f2p, and after two rounds of layoffs and re-structure, you can throw out the window, kinda gota work with he tools they give us or move on to something else, not saying what they did was the right thing or I agree, it is just the way it is, nothing more and kinda sad..

 

Players have made thousands of complaints, and idea's which I feel sadly has mostly gone on deaf ears, EA only hears sounds when it says, how much money can we make...

Edited January 31, 2013 by kevlarto

[J__H]

That is not 'needing of fixing' that is 'in need of a new or expanded feature'. That is the entire point the poster is trying to make and just by basicly saying: "You are wrong and I am right, because I say so!" doesn't change that.

 

Yes, it is a debate of semantics. But Bugs need fixing, new Features need development. But the way you debate your point does not go above the level of schoolyard 'debate'.

 

 

As opposed to the old system that was more tedious and more annoying and used to cost a lot of credits for those who did it regularly. Something was added to make it easier and you complain that it still isn't easy enough, basicly.

 

That is pretty similar to basicly being a 16 year old who wanted a car for their birthday and when their parent gives them a car, complains about the fact that it has the wrong color or doesn't have airco or electric windows. Again, basicly the level of childish debate.

 

Fixing, new feature, you can call it what you want I'm not interested in debating semantics. The system is a poor one. May I ask why when the technology is readily available they produce a half-assed system that neither group of players want. Yes most people just deal with it and move on but that doesn't discredit the fact its a bad system and could have been made a whole lot better. I can play the metaphor game as well, as in its more like purchasing a dishwasher that still requires you to pre-wash your dishes before you put them in as opposed to purchasing a dishwasher that does all the work for you, for the same price.

Edited January 31, 2013 by J__H

[J__H]

There are no barriers currently other than the ones in your own head. You can switch back and forth right now, for free. How long does it take to switch specs? How long does it take to re-allocate skill points and drag some abilities/gear around? 60 seconds?

 

The fact is you can do what you want to do in game right now, its just not as slick and convenient as YOU and a few others would like. For mer personally and many, many other players the current system does what it says on the tin. Could it be improved? Sure. Is is broken? No.

 

I personally dont like the idea of the entire game being driven by menus, lobby's and gear switching screens. Makes the game feel more like an FPS iand less like a MMORPG mo.

 

Driz

 

I get you can still use the system and it works that's fine. The problem is that the technology to release a better system is out there yet they refused to do it, and made a system which is just unnecessarily inconvenient.

[DawnAskham]

I get you can still use the system and it works that's fine. The problem is that the technology to release a better system is out there yet they refused to do it, and made a system which is just unnecessarily inconvenient.

 

And this is the root of a lot of SWTOR's challenges in retaining players, especially those that have played many of the competing games that exist with more highly developed and robust feature sets.

 

I don't think it is necessarily a refusal on their part in the 'we don't want our game to be as well designed and feature rich as other games' vain, but rather they just don't have or aren't willing to get the talent or the time or the money required to deliver a superior product.

 

Bioware seem to have added many 'features' to SWTOR that are expected in modern MMOs, along with a few twists and new ideas of their own, but for some reason they seemingly cannot implement any of them in what would be called 'best in class'.

 

So semantics aside, while the current game does allow changing of spec and gear and thus is not broken, adding a fully functional multi-spec feature is something that would be desirable.

[LogicalPremise]

And this is the root of a lot of SWTOR's challenges in retaining players, especially those that have played many of the competing games that exist with more highly developed and robust feature sets.

 

I don't think it is necessarily a refusal on their part in the 'we don't want our game to be as well designed and feature rich as other games' vain, but rather they just don't have or aren't willing to get the talent or the time or the money required to deliver a superior product.

 

Bioware seem to have added many 'features' to SWTOR that are expected in modern MMOs, along with a few twists and new ideas of their own, but for some reason they seemingly cannot implement any of them in what would be called 'best in class'.

 

So semantics aside, while the current game does allow changing of spec and gear and thus is not broken, adding a fully functional multi-spec feature is something that would be desirable.

 

I think a larger part of this is that SWTOR attracts more casuals and people who have no need of such systems, and thus don't understand the frustrations of those who are used to them. "The system works fine, stop complaining."

 

No, the system works. It does not work fine. There isn't a single advantage gained by the current system over a complete dual spec system.

[Gereorth]

I guess the whole thing we all can agree to is that the Field Respecialization is tedious. It lets you change your skill tree around, but not your action bars. It gives the immersion of having a Dual Spec, while being a whole different thing.. But it looks like it!

 

Something that is for sure is that the whole Field Respecialization is quite a useful thing. And it takes away the fact that you don't have to go to the trainer to reset it. It never said it would be the same as Duel Spec. But apparently a lot of people asociate it to it, as it 'almost' has the same use.

[SnoggyMack]

Though this seems a small feature, if the expansion implemented just this it would show Makeb isn't just warmed-over old content, but was actually pushing the game forward.

 

Every other MMO has this feature, and no one can realistically say a 200k legacy feature with no keybinds and that requires a manual rebuild of spec points is even remotely comparable to WoW or other modern MMOs.

 

Well as stated previously, you can come back to the game in another year and check in on the forums to see what you missed.

[SnoggyMack]

I get you can still use the system and it works that's fine. The problem is that the technology to release a better system is out there yet they refused to do it, and made a system which is just unnecessarily inconvenient.

 

They haven't refused to do it. They just haven't done it yet. Like the OP you can take a stand. Quit the game. And check back in a year or so on the forums to see if they have implemented this vital feature that forced you to leave the game by posting a thread just like this which bashes the game and its features because of exactly how vital dual spec is to your gameplay experience.

[Devlonir]

May I ask why when the technology is readily available they produce a half-assed system that neither group of players want.

I'll tell you why.. because just copy pasting WoW, RIFT or whatever other's Code into TOR will simply not work.

 

Just because the concept is readilly available, doesn't mean the technology is. Each game has their own challenges in making this work. What was given, was the quick, easy improvement to make a step forward in allowing respeccing to be easier. To make the system you and everyone else wants you need a lot of work. Especially if you want to make it as feature rich as some of the others. Let me explain by making a simple list of the main features they'll need to add to give you what you want:

- Functionality to change skill tree set up to a predetermined set

- Functionality to have action bar setups change with each spec, including keybinds if applicable

- Functionality to be able to make a predetermined set of gear you can equip on the spot (probably with also remembering Unfiy Color set up)

- Functionality to change and maintain each predetermined set of skill trees, action bars and gear sets

- New interface elements and menus to support all these new functionalities.

 

This is just off the top of my head to make an industry standard Dual Spec system you expect from them. This is a lot of extra Coding work they need to do to make that work and deliver it as bug free as possible.

 

What they did now was:

- Make the respec system that was already in game available through more means than one NPC in each faction's fleet.

 

You may call it half-assed. I call it the quick 'fix'. It didn't need any new interface elements, it didn't need any new systems or a lot of Testing effort to deliver it as bug free as possible. It was a step forward, but not the be-all end-all of this problem.

 

The issue here is, and the line I quoted made that perfectly clear, that you have no idea how much effort it takes to make a good Dual spec system into the game. I am sure their UI guys are working on it and have it on their to-do list. But first they worked on other aspects like being able to change your UI setup, or improving performance of the UI.

 

But naw.. it is an easy thing they can just pull off the shelf and plug it in and they are just lazy for not adding it. That is the only possible explanation.

[veyl]

It takes me 1 minute and 30 seconds to Field Respec and fix quick bars on every single character. If that was all saved I would have to spend that 1 minute and 30 seconds trolling the forums.

[jgelling]

I don't think anyone is against dual spec. Folks are against whining and denouncing the game because the feature isn't here yet, especially where there is an arguably equivalent (and in some cases better) option. Field respec has no cooldown and no recurring cost. Most games I've played with dual spec have one or both. So if I have to spend 20-30 seconds moving around some skills, that's a decent tradeoff for me. Sure I would love it if we could save a spec. But really, I can switch between healing and DPS specs on my Sage in under a minute....from anywhere.

 

For my own edification, last time I was in WoW, you had to go to a guy in town and wasn't there a cooldown on the feature?

You must not have been in WoW for a long time - you click a button on your profile to switch Primary Spec and Secondary Spec. That's it - talents changed, glyphs changed, keybinds changed automagically. There's another button to switch between different gear sets automagically as well. It's been like that for years.

 

You visit your trainer only once to train the dual spec talent for some extremely extremely nominal cost of like 15 gold that any level character can afford (not 200k credits). In MoP, that's actually the only time you ever visit your class trainer ever anymore - they've eliminated all the training of skills, which are added automatically and for free. They've actually eliminated the trees as well, but that's not necessarily all good.

 

I see this is still a sore subject - people really went off the wall in this thread. I suppose the remaining subs are overly defensive about the game after last year. I get that, but I still thought if anything they might have added this type of feature as a cartel market item, or something, if nothing else.

Edited January 31, 2013 by jgelling

[SnoggyMack]

but I still thought if anything they might have added this type of feature as a cartel market item, or something, if nothing else.

 

You can check back in May to see if it's part of the expansion you're not going to buy.

[SentinelDranoel]

This is just a bunch of people arguing about a feature, Dual Spec, that is not in the game, and has been addressed by Devs already. Short answer is NO, the ability to instant switch builds with the press of a button is not in the game. Subs can respec for free and with legacy can respec anytime outside of combat as far as I have seen.

 

Close this, it will not produce anything useful.